Ancestry of NN de Langley, wife of Nicholas de Stafford
The...@aol.com
Dear Rosie, Cris, Douglas, Todd, Gordon, et al.,
In a previous thread there was discussion of the identification
of the wife of Nicholas de Stafford (d. ca. 1 Aug 1287) as the
daughter of Sir Geoffrey de Langley and his 2nd wife Maud de
Brightwell [1]. There was discussion in that thread of the
possibility that Maud may have been a daughter of Henry de Albini
[de Albiniaco] and his wife Christine, daughter and heiress of
Nicholas de Coventry. There may have been a near relationship
between Maud de Brightwell and Christine, but evidence now shows
that Maud de Brightwell was not the daughter of Henry de Albini.
Charter evidence provided by Dr. Coss in The Langley Cartulary
has been found to identify Maud as the daughter of Robert de
Brightwell, of Brightwell and Ewelme, co. Oxon. She received a
gift (evidently as her maritagium) from her brother John de
Brightwell of the lands in Brightwell, Ewelme & c. previously
cited, as shown in a partial extract of a particular charter:
' 38. c. September 1236
Charter of John de Bryhtwell giving to Geoffrey de Langley and
Matilda his wife, and to the heirs who will issue from Matilda, the
gift which he made to the aforesaid Matilda his sister, namely the
entire land with all appurtenances which Robert de Bryhtwell, his
father, held and he held, or will in any way accrue to him in the
vill of Brightwell (Bryhtwell), and the entire land which Robert
his father held and he held or will accrue to him in the vill of
Ewelme with appurtenances, and 2s. rent which Robert held and he
held in the vill of Hawridge (Haurugge) with all other issues and
profits from the said tenement and with all appurtenances, and the
entire land and tenement which Robert held and he held or will
accrue to him with appurtenances in the vill of Standhill
(Standelve),...' [2]
An analysis of the charters edited by Dr. Coss in fact provides
the following chart of the descent of Maud de Brightwell from
Alfred (or Aluredus) de Brightwell, brother of Roland or Rolland
Haget:
__________________________________
I I
Alfred de Brightwell Rolland Haget
of Brightwell and Ewelme, co. Oxon.
I
I
Richard fitz Alfred de Brightwell
of Brightwell and Ewelme, co. Oxon.
_______I_____________________________________
I I
Robert de Brightwell Salinus [Colinus ?]
of Brightwell and Ewelme, co. Oxon. de Brightwell
d. bef 25 Sept 1236
_____I_____________________________________________
I I
John de Brightwell Maud = Sir Geoffrey
of Brightwell and Ewelme de Brightwell I de Langley
d. aft Sept 1236 I
V
A more detailed pedigree will follow in a subsequent post to
this thread. Also, the relevant charters provided by Dr. Coss
will appear subsequently (not included in the first two posts due
to size constraints).
This will add to the known ancestry of the Barons of Stafford,
subsequently Earls of Stafford. Further, the ancestry of a
wide-ranging group of descendants (list members and royalty) will
also be affected. Additional research in the publications of
K.S. B. Keats-Rohan (e.g. Domesday Descendants) may in fact
further trace this ancestry, as likely Roland Haget and Alfred
de Brightwell had a parent or grandparent among the tenants in
England at Domesday Book (1086).
Any relevant comment, criticism or further documentation is
welcome, as always.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] J. Ravilious et al., <Re: CP Confirmation: NN de Langley, wife
of Nicholas de Stafford>, SGM, Oct 2004.
[2] Peter R. Coss, ed., The Langley Cartulary (Stratford upon
Avon: printed for the Dugdale Society, 1980), pp. 9-10, No. 38.
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
Following is the promised detailed pedigree from Alfred de
Brightwell to Maud de Brightwell, wife of Sir Geoffrey de Langley.
Cheers,
John
1 NN Haget
----------------------------------------
Children: Rolland
Alfred
1.1 Rolland Haget
----------------------------------------
of Brightwell, co. Oxon.
Gift of Rolland Haget to his brother, Alfred, of a virgate of land
in Brightwell Superior [late 12th century]:
' Rollandus Haget omnibus hominibus tam presentibus quam futuris
Francis et Anglis salutem. Sciatis me dedisse in feudum et
hereditatem unam virgatam terre in Bryhtewell Superiori Aluredo
fratre meo et heredibus suis tenendam de me et heredibus meis,
illam scilicet quam tenuit Edwinus. Et hance predictam virgatam
tenebit Aluredus frater meus et heredes sui libere et quiete per
liberum servicium quod pertinet sepedicte virgate.
Huius donacionis teste[s] sunt Halmandus de Bydon Gaufridus
Haget Radulphus Foliott Jordanus de Lumbelee Ricardus filius
Osane Oliver Frualdus Willelmus de Luvertone Ricardus filius
Ernnac’ et totus halimotus de Bryghtewellia. '
[Langley Cart. p. 5, No. 20[1] ]
1.2 Alfred de Brightwell
----------------------------------------
of Brightwell and Ewelme, co. Oxon.
' Aluredus frater Rollandi Haget', had gift of a virgate of land in
Brightwell from his brother Rolland Haget [Langley Cart. p. 5,
No. 20[1]]
his son identified as Richard fitz Alured de Brightwell[1]
Children: Richard fitz Alfred
1.2.1 Richard fitz Alfred de Brightwell
----------------------------------------
of Brightwell and Ewelme, co. Oxon.
' Richard son of Alfred de Bryhtwell', gave 12 acres of land in
Ewelme to Robert fitz Bailleunt of Ewelme [Langley Cart. p. 8,
No. 34, dated 'early 13th century'[1] ]
gift and quitclaim of William Bailleunt of Ewelme to Salinus de
Brythwell, before Sept 1236 provides for Colinus [recte Salinus]
to render
' annually to the heirs of the aforesaid Robert 5s. just as the
charter of Robert [recte Richard] de Brythwell, father of Colinus
[recte Salinus], which William has handed to Colinus, shows. '
[Langley Cart. No. 19[1] ]
Children: Robert (-<1236)
Salinus
1.2.1.1 Robert de Brightwell
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 25 Sep 1236[1]
of Brightwell, Ewelme, and Haseley, co. Oxon., Hawridge, Bucks. and
Woodborough, co. Wilts.
12 acres of land 'in the field of Ewelme' held of him by William
Bailleunt' of Ewelme, before Sept 1236 [Gift and quitclaim of same
by William to Salinus to Brythwell to be held of the heirs of
'Robert de Brythwell brother of the aforesaid Salinus' - Langley
Cart. p. 5, No. 19[1]]
Charter of Geoffrey de Paveilli giving to Robert de Bryhtwell, for
his homage and service, 1/2 hide of land with appurtenances in
Standhill
' just as Robert’s father held it, namely that which
Richard fitz Alfred held;;...' [Langley Cart. p. 7, No. 25[1]]
his son called ' John de Brythewell son of Robert de Bryhtewell
' in release and quitclaim to his sister Matilda and her husband
Sir Geoffrey de Langley, ca. 1242 [Langley Cart. p. 4, No. 14[1]]
Children: Maud
John
1.2.1.1.1 Maud de Brightwell
----------------------------------------
2nd wife of Sir Geoffrey de Langley[2]
had the manor of Turkdean in Gloucestershire, with land and rents at
Brightwell, Ewelme, Haseley and Standhill in Oxfordshire, Hawridge
in Buckinghamshire, and Woodborough in Wiltshire, as her maritagium
(held of her brother John de Brightwell ca. 1236-1242 - Langley
Cart. p. 2, No. 9[1]]
' Matilda ', party to Gift with warranty from Henry de Albiniaco to
her husband and herself, dated ca. 1245 [PRO, Shakespeare
Birthplace Trust Records Office: Gregory of Stivichall
[DR10/1 - DR10/467], DR10/273[3]]
Spouse: Sir Geoffrey de Langley
Death: 1274[4]
Father: Walter de Langley
Mother: Emma de Lacy
Marr: bef 25 Sep 1236[1]
Children: NN, m. Nicholas de Stafford
Henry (-<1275)
Robert (-<1280)
1.2.1.1.2 John de Brightwell
----------------------------------------
of Brightwell, Ewelme, and Haseley, co. Oxon., Hawridge, Bucks. and
Woodborough, co. Wilts.
' John de Brytewell', quitclaimed pacts and agreements between
himself and Sir Geoffrey de Langley ca. 1236-1242, stating he would
come to warrant same
' Should Geoffrey or Matilda, John's sister, be harassed concerning
any tenement which they hold of him in Brightwell (Brytwell) or in
Ewelme, Hawridge (Hauugg'), Haseley (Hasele), Turkdean (Turreden)
or Woodborough(Wodebair) by reason of homage, fealty, suit or any
other demand' [Langley Cartulary p. 2, No. 9[1]]
' John de Brythewell son of Robert de Bryhtewell ', released and
quitclaimed to his sister Matilda and her husband Sir Geoffrey de
Langley
' the homage which Sir Geoffrey paid to him for the tenements which
they held or hold (tenuit vel tenent) in Brightwell, Woodborough
and Turkdean (Bryhtwell Wodberow et Turkeden), with reliefs,
wardships and all else which may accrue;...' [Langley Cart. p. 4,
No. 14[1]]
1.2.1.2 Salinus de Brightwell
----------------------------------------
of Ewelme, co. Oxon.
purchased 12 acres in Ewelme from William Bailleunt, bef 25 Sept
1236 [2]
1. Peter R. Coss, ed., "The Langley Cartulary," Stratford upon
Avon: printed for the Dugdale Society, 1980.
2. Rosie Bevan, "Re: CP Confirmation: NN de Langley, wife of
Nicholas de Stafford," 12 October, 2004, email
rbe...@paradise.net.nz, cites Peter Coss (ed), The Langley
Cartulary [Stratford-upon-Avon : Dugdale Society, 1980], p. x.
3. "Access to Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/ exffice, Ipswich
4. "A History of the County of Warwick," Oxford: published for the
Institute of Historical Research, Oxford Univ. Press, 1969, Vol.
VIII.
* John P. Ravilious
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
Following are the relevant charters extracted from The Langley
Cartulary.
Cheers,
John
______________________________________
NOTE: the following text is from Peter R. Coss, ed., The Langley
Cartulary (Stratford upon Avon: printed for the Dugdale
Society, 1980).
9. 1236-1242
Release and quitclaim by John de Brytewell to Sir Geoffrey de
Langeley of all pacts and agreements made or discussed between them
concerning John’s food or clothing, footwear, horses and harnesses,
board (perhendinationibus) and all kinds of goods and sustenances
which in any way he could claim from him, for 10s. which Geoffrey
is bound to render annually during John’s life and his own, namely
5s. at Michaelmas and 5s. at the Annunciation. Should Geoffrey or
Matilda, John’s sister, be harassed concerning any tenement which
they hold of him in Brightwell (Brytwell) or in Ewelme, Hawridge
(Hauugg’), Haseley (Hasele), Turkdean (Turreden) or Woodborough
(Wodebair) by reason of homage, fealty, suit or any other demand,
John will come to warrant at their command and at their reasonable
expense. Should he not do so he quitclaims regarding homages,
fealties and services so that they will follow the lords of those
fees (sequentur dicta feuda sua versus dominos dictorum feudorum
in omnibus) without any charge by him or his heirs. Sealing
clause. Witnesses: Sir Stephen de Harrehull, Sir Jordan la Ware,
Sir Hascullus de Hardeburgh, Nolo de Morley, Richard Herbenband,
Humphrey de la Barre, Walter le Bell, Geoffrey de Wolmerstone, Hugh
de Aungers, John the clerk of Brightwell (Brytewell), Nicholas his
brother, John le Belle, Roger la Warre and many others. fo. 3r
Marginal note: dominus Galfridus de Langeley.
14. c. 1242
Surrender, release and quitclaim by John de Brythewell son of Robert
de Bryhtwell, for himself and his heirs, to Sir Geoffrey de
Langley, Matilda his wife and their heirs, of the homage which Sir
Geoffrey paid to him for the tenements which they held or hold
(tenuit vel tenent) in Brightwell, Woodborough and Turkdean
(Bryhtwell Wodberow et Turkeden), with reliefs, wardships and all
else which may accrue; granting that they may pay homage to
whomsoever and whensoever they wish and that they may arrange and
dispose of the reliefs, wardships and all else which will have
belonged to him; at will without contradiction or hindrance by him
or anyone on his behalf; with clause excluding future claims.
Sealing clause. Witnesses: Sir Stephen Chenduc, William Huscarle,
Sir Robert Brand, Sir Hugh Pyroun, Peter [ ] [1] then steward of
Wallingford (Walingford), Thomas de Newton, Amaricus fitz Geoffrey,
Ralph de Eston, Reginald fitz Adam, John de Bryhtewell and others.
fo. 6r
Marginal note: Galfridus de Langeley.
18. Early 13th century
Charter of Miles de Sandford, with the consent [1] of Henry de
Sandford his son and heir, giving to Richard fitz A[l]ured of
Brightwell (Brythewellia) 1/2 virgate of land in Ewelme (Ewelmia)
for his homage and service, namely 4 acres juxta Durlvestane, 5
acres super Harepyth, 2 acres at Duggestorn and le Foresutere juxta
Happenburge, and his entire furlong of Leheldelonde; to be held to
him and his heirs, of the grantor and his heirs freely [etc.] in
fee and inheritance, by rendering 12d. annually at the feast of
St. Botulph for all service save forinsec service. In return
Richard fitz Alured gave 7 marks of silver to the grantor and a cow
to his wife. Clauses for warranty and for exchange to the same
value in case of inability to warrant. Sealing clause.
Witnesses: Richard de Parco, William de Bruges, William Marimo,
Richard Foliod, Peter Talisshache, Walter Cotele, Richard Parvin,
Reguin Angewin, William Pypard, Robert his brother, Humphrey de
Ewelmia, William his son, Halin’ de Haseleia, Peter his son,
William Silvanus and many others. fo. 11r
Marginal note: Ricardus filius Audr’ de Brythwell.
1. concessisse for consensu.
Richard de Parco, William de Bruges, Peter Talemache and Walter
Cotele all occur in Oxfordshire fines between 1206 and 1223.
(Ox. Rec. Soc. xii, pp. 31, 34, 44, 53, 56, 65, 71.)
19. Before September 1236
Gift and quitclaim by William Bailleunt’ of Ewelme to Salinus de
Brythwell,for his service and 1 mark of silver which Salinus gave
in advance, of 12 acres of land in the field of Ewelme, namely
those which the grantor held of Robert de Brythwell brother of the
aforesaid Salinus; to be held of the heirs of Robert de Brythwell
to the aforesaid Colinus [sic] and his heirs, and to whom he will
give, assign or bequeath, by rendering annually to the heirs of
the aforesaid Robert 5s. just as the charter [1] of Robert de
Brythwell, father of Colinus, which William has handed to Colinus,
shows. Sealing clause. Witnesses: Robert Brand, William Wace,
Robert Juper, Henry fitz Joc’, Henry Wace, William Sulnem, Adam
Langley [2], Richard fitz Walter, Thomas Croc, John the clerk of
Brightwell (Brythwell) and many others. fos. 11r-11v
Marginal note: Willelmus de Bryghtwel.
1. carti.
2. Written after Rangeull (deleted).
Robert de Brightwell was dead by September 25th 1236.
See below No. 39.
20. Late 12th century
Gift of Rolland Haget to his brother, Alfred, of a virgate of land
in Brightwell Superior.
Rollandus Haget omnibus hominibus tam presentibus quam futuris
Francis et Anglis salutem. Sciatis me dedisse in feudum et
hereditatem unam virgatam terre in Bryhtewell Superiori Aluredo
fratre meo et heredibus suis tenendam de me et heredibus meis,
illam scilicet quam tenuit Edwinus. Et hance predictam virgatam
tenebit Aluredus frater meus et heredes sui libere et quiete per
liberum servicium quod pertinet sepedicte virgate. Huius
donacionis teste[s] sunt Halmandus de Bydon Gaufridus Haget
Radulphus Foliott Jordanus de Lumbelee Ricardus filius Osane
Oliver Frualdus Willelmus de Luvertone Ricardus filius Ernnac’
et totus halimotus de Bryghtewellia. fo. 11v
Marginal note: Aluredus frater Rollandy Haget.
Ralph Foliot paid scutage on 1 1/2 knights’ fees in Oxfordshire in
1199/1200. He held two fees of the honour of Wallingford in
1201/2. (R. B. E. vol. 1 pp. 124, 145.)
Haneladus de Bidon held a knight’s fee in Wallingford, Berks, of the
honour of Wallingford in 1166. (ibid. p. 310).
25. Before September 1236
Charter of Geoffrey de Paveilli giving to Robert de Bryhtwell, for
his homage and service, 1/2 hide of land (dimide[m] hydea[m] terre)
with appurtenances in Standhill (Stamdelf) just as Robert’s father
held it, namely that which Richard fitz Alfred held; to be held to
him and his heirs, of the grantor and his heirs freely [etc.] by
rendering 6s. annually for all service save service to the king,
namely at Michaelmas 3s. and at the feast of St. Mary in March 3s.
Robert gave 4 marks of silver. Clause for warranty. Should the
grantor be unable to warrant he will give land in exchange for the
same value. Sealing clause. Witnesses: Robert Megre, Richard de
la Park, Richard Foliot, William Wace, Robert Pypard, William de
Langehull, William Sulveyn, Amaricus del Park and many others.
fos. 12v-13r
Marginal note: Robertus de Bryhtwelle.
29. Before September 1236
Charter of Richard de Parco giving to Robert son of Richard fitz
Alfred of Brightwell (Bryhtwell) and his heirs, 1/2 virgate of land
which Everwacher held in hida with a messuage and with all
appurtenances in all things, for his homage and service; to be held
of the grantor and his heirs freely and quietly, by rendering 3s.
annually for all services which pertain to the grantor and his
heirs, namely at Easter 18d. and at Michaelmas 18d. Sealing
clause. Witnesses: William Bruges [1], Richard de Bryhtwelle,
Honfredus de Lawlena, William Pypart, William Silvem and many
others. fo. 13v
Marginal note: Robertus de Bryghtwell.
1. after Burg (deleted).
34. Early 13th century
Charter of Richard son of Alfred de Bryhtwell giving to Robert fitz
Baileint, for his homage and service, 12 acres of land in the vill
of Ewelme which are of the fee of Miles de Sandford, namely 4 acres
juxta Deslestane, 5 acres super Herepathe, an acre called
Forescotere, and 2 acres juxta Dukesborne; to be held to him and
his heirs, of the grantor and his heirs, in fee and inheritance,
freely and quietly from all services pertaining to them, saving
as much forinsec as pertains to 1/4 virgate (forthingum) of land,
by rendering 5s. annually, namely 2s. 6d. at the feast of St. Mary
in March and 2s. 6d. at Michaelmas. Robert gave 5s. in gersum
(sersuma). Sealing clause. Witnesses: Richard de Parco, William
Pypard, Humphrey de Ewelm, William de Ewelme, [?] fitz Humphrey,
Robert Pypard, Walter Cotele, Henry Paynus, Robert fitz William,
Wygod de Bryhtwell and Walter his son, Reg[inald] Wytyng and many
others. fo. 14v
Marginal note: Robertus Bayleint’.
38. c. September 1236
Charter of John de Bryhtwell giving to Geoffrey de Langley and
Matilda his wife, and to the heirs who will issue from Matilda,
the gift which he made to the aforesaid Matilda his sister, namely
the entire land with all appurtenances which Robert de Bryhtwell,
his father, held and he held, or will in any way accrue to him in
the vill of Brightwell (Bryhtwell), and the entire land which
Robert his father held and he held or will accrue to him in the
vill of Ewelme with appurtenances, and 2s. rent which Robert held
and he held in the vill of Hawridge (Haurugge) with all other
issues and profits from the said tenement and with all
appurtenances, and the entire land and tenement which Robert held
and he held or will accrue to him with appurtenances in the vill
of Standhill (Standelve), and 6s. rent with all appurtenances
which Peter Olyver rendered to Robert and to him from a tenement
which he held of them in the vill of Haseley (Haseleye) with all
homages, wardships, reliefs, and all other issues and profits
which pertain or will pertain to all the said tenements, by
rendering annually to him and to his legitimately begotten heirs
1 pair of spurs or 6d. at Michaelmas for all services [etc.]
pertaining to him and his heirs save the service of the king which
they will make by their own hands to the chief lords; also he has
granted to Geoffrey and Matilda, and to the heirs issuing from
Matilda, the gift which he made to her of the entire land which his
father held and he held or will accrue to him in the vill
of Turkdean (Turkeden) with all appurtenances, with homages,
wardships, reliefs, and all other issues and profits, by rendering
annually to him and his legitimately begotten heirs 1 lb. cumin or
3d. at Michaelmas for all services [etc.] save royal service which
they will make by their own hands to the chief lords; he has
granted to Geoffrey and Matilda, and to the heirs issuing
from Matilda, the gift which he made to her of the entire land
which Robert held and he held or will accrue to him in the vill
of Woodborough (Wudeberge) with all appurtenances and with homages,
wardships, reliefs and all otherissues and profits of the land, by
rendering annually to him and to his legitimately begotten heirs 1
pair of gloves at Easter for all services [etc.] pertaining to him
and his heirs, save the service of the king which they will make
by their own hands to the chief lords; all the aforesaid to be held
of him and his legitimately begotten heirs freely [etc.], in
demesnes, in meadow and pastures, fishponds, courts, houses, rents,
homages, services of free men and villein services (servagiis
rusticorum), in roads, lanes, waters, mills, and in all other
liberties and free customs pertaining to the lands by the
aforesaid services. If Matilda dies without legitimately begotten
heir and John still lives all the aforesaid should revert to him
and his legitimately begotten heirs save that Geoffrey should hold
them for life, peacefully without contradiction, hindrance or
charge by John or his heirs. If John de Bryhtwell dies without
legitimately begotten heir Geoffrey and Matilda should hold the
aforesaid of the chief lords of the fees by the services which
his father and he were accustomed to make. If both John de
Bryhtwell and Matilda, his sister, die without legitimately
begotten heir, Geoffrey and his heirs should hold the aforesaid
of the chief lords of the fees by the services owed, by hereditary
right, without any claim from John and his heirs and from anyone
to whom any right shall descend on behalf of Robert his father
or of him. Geoffrey and Matilda and their aforesaid heirs should
have all rights and escheats which may descend to John both in
demesnes and in services in Brightwell, Ewelme, Hawridge,
Standhill, Haseley, Turkdean and Woodborough (Bryhtwell Ewelme
Hawrugge Standelve Haseleye Turkeden Wodburew) and all
rights which by reason of the said tenements will accrue, quit
from John and his heirs. Warranty and sealing clauses.
Witnesses: Sir William de Eboraco, William de Insula, Ralph de
Northwyche, Thurstan Dispensarius, Ralph de Chaundes then
justices in eyre at Gloucester (Glovernia) before whom this
charter was made, John de Munemue junior, Walter his brother,
Peter de Egeswrthe, William de la Ware, Geoffrey Martell,
Hascullus de Hardberge, Henry de Bathonia, Stephen de Harehuld,
Richard Ereband and many others. fos. 15v -16v
Marginal note: dominus Galfridus de Langley.
39. 25 September 1236
Final concord made at Bedford, Thursday after the feast of St.
Matthew, 20 Henry III before Ralph abbot of Ramsey (Rames’),
Robert de Lexint’, Oliver de Vallibus, John de Hulcote and William
de St. Edmund, justices in eyre, between Geoffrey de Langeley and
Matilda his wife, querents, and John de Bryhtwell, defendant,
concerning 3 1/2 virgates of land, 13 acres of meadow and
9 messuages with appurtenances in Brightwell (Bryhtwell), and
1/4 virgate (ferlingo) and 14 acres of land with appurtenances
in Ewelme in the county of Oxford (Oxon’), 2s. rent with
appurtenances in Hawridge (Hauryg) in the county of Buckingham
(Bukyngham), 2 virgates of land with appurtenances in Standhill
(Standelve), and 6s. rent with appurtenances in Haseley (Hasell)
in the county of Oxford (Oxon’), 2 hides of land, 7 messuges and
3 acres of meadow with appurtenances in Turkdean (Turkeden) in
the county of Gloucester (Glouc’), and 54 acres of land, 4 1/2
acres of meadow and 2 messuages with appurtenances in Woodborough,
Wilts. (Wuddebergh in comitatu Wiltec’); plea of warranty
of charter. John acknowledged all the aforesaid to be the right
of Matilda as those which Geoffrey and Matilda have of his gift,
to be held to Geoffrey and Matilda and the heirs begotten of
them, of John and his heirs begotten of his espoused wife, by
rendering annually 1 pair of golden spurs or 6d., 1 lb of cumin at
the feast of St. Matthew and 1 pair of gloves at Easter for all
service save forinsec service. John and his heirs begotten of
his espoused wife will warrant the aforesaid to Geoffrey and
Matilda and the heirs begotten of them. Should John die without
heir begotten of his espoused wife Geoffrey and Matilda and the
heirs begotten of them will hold al the aforesaid of the chief
lords of the fee by making the service which pertains. Should
Matilda die without heir begotten of Geoffrey, and Geoffrey still
live, he will hold all the aforesaid for life of the chief lords
of the fee or of John and his heirs begotten of his espoused wife
by the aforesaid service. Should Geoffrey and Matilda die without
heir begotten of his espoused wife all the aforesaid should revert
to the next heirs of Geoffrey to be held of the chief lords of the
fee by making the service which pertains. Geoffrey and Matilda
gave a sore sparrowhawk. John granted for himself and his heirs
that whatever will accrue to him from the tenement which Cecily de
Mucegros holds in dower in Woodborough, Wilts. (Wudebergh in
comitatu Wiltec’) of the gift of Walter de la Winere, her late
husband, of the inheritance of the same John should revert to
Geoffrey and Matilda and the heirs begotten of them or to the
next heirs of Geoffrey if John dies without heir and Geoffrey and
Matilda die without heir begotten of them. fos. 16v - 17r
Gordon Kirkemo
I took your cue to search DD and found several references to Haget
(pp.1001-1002), but nothing that links to Alfred is obvious. I didn't find
anything in DP. Here's what I found:
Haget, Rolland
Son of Bertram I Haget. Benefactor of St. Peter's York (EYC i, 236). He
was dead by 1165, when his heir was his brother William.
Haget, Bertram
The Haget family apparently descends from the Aghete who was the English
predecessor of Norman d'Arcy (1086) in the Lincolnshire manor of Wotton.
Occurs in the 1140s-60s as a tenant of Mowbray and Richmond. Brother of
Faritius. Father of Bertram II, Geoffrey, Roland, Oliver, and William. His
two fees of Mowbray were held in 1166 by his son William.
There are also Haget listings for Faritius, Gaufrid, Radulf, and Willelm.
Gordon
Doug Smith
> Saturday, 4 December, 2004
> big snip
"John granted for himself and his heirs
that whatever will accrue to him from the tenement which Cecily de
Mucegros holds in dower in Woodborough, Wilts. (Wudebergh in
comitatu Wiltec’) of the gift of Walter de la Winere, her late
husband, of the inheritance of the same John should revert to
Geoffrey and Matilda and the heirs begotten of them or to the
next heirs of Geoffrey if John dies without heir and Geoffrey and
Matilda die without heir begotten of them. fos. 16v - 17r"
Hi John,
Have you place this Cecily de Muscegros yet?
Doug Smith
Therav3
Dear Doug,
This is one lead I'm still working on. I believe this Cecily was the
2nd wife of Robert de Muscegros (d. 1254), who m. 1stly Hawise Malet. She may
have been named Cecily de la Rivere (name given in the A2A charter we've
discussed); I believe she m. 1stly Walter de la Winere (as given in the Langley
Cartulary), who evidently d. ca. 1245 or before. She then m. 2ndly Robert de
Muscegros (who d. 1254).
How does that mesh with your Muscegros information?
Cheers,
John
Gordon Kirkemo
Happy to oblige:
Haget, Faritius
Faritius brother of Bertram I occurs c.1147. Perhaps the same as Faritius
brother of Vivian, occurs post 1160.
Haget, Gaufrid
Son of Bertram I Haget and brother of Bertram II, both of whom he had
succeeded by c.1165/71. Married Alice, daughter of William of Friston, by
whom he had issue Geoffrey (d.v.p.), Ralph, abbot of Fountains (1170-90),
Agnes wife of Alan fitz Brien of Bedale, Gundreda, Alice, wife of Jordan de
St. Mary, Lucy, wife of Peter fitz Toret.
Haget, Radulf
Held half a fee of the bishop of Durham in 1166. In 1196 Ralph Haket, lord
of Tawton, Yorkshire, gave a charter for St. John's, Pontefract, with his
brothers and tenants Oliver and Baldwin (Cart.,p.379).
Haget, Willelm
Son of Bertram I Haget, whom he succeeded by 1165. Heir also of his
brothers Bertram II and Roland. In 1164/65 he accounted for the land of his
nephew ('nepotis'). In 1166 he held two fees at Bainton, Caldwell, Dacre,
Easedike, Follifoot, Healaugh and Wighill in Yorkshire from Roger de
Mowbray.
Let me know if you need the original source documents that are cited.
Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: The...@aol.com [mailto:The...@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 10:56 PM
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: Ancestry of NN de Langley, wife of Nicholas de Stafford
Sunday, 5 December, 2004
Dear Gordon,
Many thanks for those cites from DD. This does appear to be the
correct
Roland (Rolland) Haget based on the chronology - the note given by Coss for
Langley Cart. No. 20, the gift by Rolland Haget to his brother 'Aluredus'
(Alfred) in Brightwell was witnessed by Halmandus/Haneladus de Bydon, whom
Coss
notes held a knight's fee in Wallingford, Berks. in 1166 [cites Red Book of
the
Exchequer I:310]. As we have Alfred's great-grandchildren John de
Brightwell
and Maud (de Brightwell) de Langley as active adults in 1236 and likely
before,
it seems unlikely there was a subsequent generation (children or nephews of
Roland Haget of DD 1002) where we would find another Roland.
I wonder if I could trouble you re: the other Haget refs. - esp.
Gaufrid
- this may be helpful in supporting/disproving placement of Alfred as
another
brother among the sons of Bertram 'I' Haget. The name Oliver should be
distinct from Alfred/Alured, but I wonder if perhaps this might be an error
in the
doc. cited by KSB (or a prior reader) wherein Alfred was rendered as Oliver,
or similar?
Thanks again!
John
The...@aol.com
Doug Smith
Hi John
Does not mesh - at least as yet. CP X: 672 says Hawise Malet married
Robert de Muscegros (her second husband) and she died aft 4 may 1287
or more than 30 years after her husband. Perhaps Cecily was a first
wife of Robert?
Doug
The...@aol.com
Dear Cris,
Glad you found this thread worth a few Nicholas.
There was a prior thread which ye may have missed concerning
the relationship between Ralph de Stafford, 1st Earl of Stafford,
and John de Peyto [see <CP Confirmation: NN de Langley, wife of
Nicholas de Stafford>, posts dated October 2004]. From Ralph de
Stafford's identifying John de Peyto as "Johanne de Peyto
consanguineo nostro" [charter to the priory of Cold Norton, co.
Oxon., Monasticon Anglicanum VI/1:421], and Rosie's providing the
chart from Prof. Coss' Langley Cartulary, I produced the
following (see post #3 of that thread):
Walter de Langley
of Pinley, co. Warwicks.
I
I
1) = Sir Geoffrey de Langley = 2) Matilda
I of Bisseley and Pinley : de Brightwell
I fl. 1236-7, d. 1274 : [see 1. below]
________I____________ :
I I :
Walter de Langley <siblings> NN de = Nicholas
d. 1280 Langley I de Stafford
= Alice le Bret I d. ca. 1287
___I_____________________ I
I I I I
<siblings> Robert de Langley Edmund de Stafford
d. bef 1329 1st Lord (Baron) Stafford
I d. bef 12 Aug 1308
_______________I I
I __________________I______
I I I
Margery de Langley RALPH DE STAFFORD RICHARD DE
= William de Peyto 1st Earl of Stafford STAFFORD
I <grantor> < witness >
I I
I I
JOHN DE PEYTO HUGH DE STAFFORD
<witness> 2nd Earl of Stafford
< witness >
Given that Sir Geoffrey de Langley and Matilda de Brightwell
were married before 25 Sept 1236, and Edmund de Stafford (son of
Nicholas de Stafford and NN de Langley) was born 17 July 1273, it
would appear most certain that Edmund de Stafford's mother would
have been the daughter of Matilda de Brightwell and not a former
spouse - otherwise she (Edmund's mother) would have been aged 37
or older at the time of the birth of her son and heir (and only
known child).
The identification of the maritagium of Nicholas de Stafford's
wife would be of great interest. The fact that the lands of the
Brightwell inheritance went from Robert de Langley to his
half-brother Sir Geoffrey is an interesting machination much
discussed by Dr. Coss and others: the fact that Robert de
Langley's sister had no (identifiable) participation in the
inheritance appears to be a peculiar quirk in a peculiar
arrangement.
Cheers,
John
John Ravilious
Dear Gordon,
That's a major help - many thanks for those details.
I wager that the cartulary for Healaugh priory is the source for
much of the detail on the Haget family; unfortunately, the website
with the Monasticon Anglicanum texts is not cooperating at present [I
think the Healaugh charters are in vol. 6(1)]. Hopefully I can get
access to that in the next few days, and (with the needed details
extracted) construct an accurate chart.
It does appear from what you've provided, that Alfred de
Brightwell (aka Alfred or Alured Haget) acquired lands in Oxfordshire,
some from his brother Rolland Haget and others possibly through
marriage or service, and established his family in south-central
England. The rest of the family seem to have gravitated to Yorkshire
(Healaugh, Bainton & c.), and their attachment to Fountains Abbey and
Healaugh seems to confirm that.
Thanks again; will write as soon as I have more to add (in short
order I hope).
Cheers,
John
kir...@comcast.net ("Gordon Kirkemo") wrote in message news:<JNEBIPBDPPDCGBKMKH...@comcast.net>...
<<<<<<<<<< SNIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cristopher Nash
backstory on the Brightwell/Langley connection - thanks loads for it!
Reading through it, I keep wondering whether in my (ruefully
enforced) 'sabbatical' from Gen-Med I may've missed any discussion
suggesting reasons for conviction that the wife of Nicholas de
Stafford was a da. of Sir Geoffrey? (As you'll prob. recall I was
particularly perplexed by the problem that even Coss - who was unable
to find evidence of a da. for Sir G. - described Sir G as having had
a wife before Margaret de Brightwell. And that chronology didn't seem
to rule out the possibility of a wife of Nicholas de Stafford's being
- if a Langley at all - a da. of either.) Any idears? Meantime,
whatever the Coss, lettuce enjoy this overEwelming feast. I know
I'll relish that Haget around Hogmanay!
Cris
--
al...@mindspring.com
Also, Robert had a son John who was married to Cecily Avenal. If they
were married as children perhaps the reference is to her, although, the
dates are very tight.
Doug
al...@mindspring.com
Also, Robert had a son John who was married to Cecily Avenal. If they
were married as children, perhaps this ref. relates to her but the
dates are tight.
Doug