Luccombe

[antst...@gmail.com]

Has this family been discussed here before. I have not noticed it.

Elizabeth Luccombe married Sir Oliver St John. She was the daughter of Hugh II Luccombe (died ante 12 Dec 1324) as confirmed by relevant IPMs and Elizabeth's brother John died young and sine prole. Also there appear to be IPMs which confirm that Hugh II's father was John II who also died in mid 1325 and his wife was Sibyl. This John II 's father was Hugh I whose IPM was taken at Luccombe, Somersetshire and dated 6 June 1323. His wife is unidentifiable. Hugh I's father was John I and his Somersetshire and Devonshire IPM was dated 15 Nov 1319.

However there seems to be an issue with the age of John II in his father's IPM which is given as 1 year old. James Savage's "History of the hundred of Carhampton" pp. 157-158 state that John II although married and with issue was dead 3 years later.

Has any research been done on this family?

[John Watson]

I think that you are getting a bit mixed up. If you write everything down in date order, it makes sense. A few minutes' research into the inquisitions post mortem and fine rolls gives this pedigree:

1. John de Luccombe (d. bef 26 Oct 1319) = Sibyl (d. bef. 22 Jun 1325)

2. Hugh de Luccombe (1295-Mar 1323) = Elizabeth

3a. John de Luccombe (May 1322-bef. 16 May 1334)
3b. Elizabeth de Luccombe (b.20 May 1320) = Oliver de St. John

26 October 1319, Order to the escheator beyond Trent to take into the king's hand the lands late of John de Luccombe, deceased, tenant in chief.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 3, Edward II: 1319-1327 (1912), 7.

15 November 1319, Inquisition post mortem of John de Luccombe. Hugh his son, aged 24 and more, is his next heir.
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 6, Edward II (1910), No. 235.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol6/pp139-149

7 December 1319, Order to the same to deliver to Hugh, son and heir of John de Loccecumbe, tenant in chief, the lands late of his said father, he having done homage: saving to Sibyl late the wife of John her dower.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 3, Edward II: 1319-1327 (1912), 11.

23 March 1323, Order to the escheator on this side Trent to take into the king's hand the lands late of Hugh de Lukcombe, deceased, tenant in chief.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 3, Edward II: 1319-1327 (1912), 201.

22 May 1325, Grant to Alexander de Sancto Johanne of the county of Devon, for a fine of 100 marks whereof he will pay at the Exchequer a moiety at Michaelmas next and a moiety at Easter following, of the marriage of John, son and heir of Hugh de Luccombe, tenant in chief, a minor in the king's ward; and if the said John die before his coming of age and marriage, his heir being a minor, the said Alexander shall have the marriage of that heir, and so from heir to heir.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 3, Edward II: 1319-1327 (1912), 347.

22 June 1325, Order to John Everard, escheator in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset, to take into the king's hand the lands which Sibyl late the wife of John de Luccombe, deceased, held in chief in dower of the inheritance of John, son and heir of Hugh de Luccumbe, a minor in the king's ward.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 3, Edward II: 1319-1327 (1912), 349.

6 July 1325, Order to John Everard, escheator in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset, to take into the king's hand the lands late of John de Luccombe, deceased, tenant in chief.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 3, Edward II: 1319-1327 (1912), 350.

6 July 1325, John son of Hugh de Luccombe and his wife Elizabeth and heir of his grandfather John de Luccombe was aged 3 years and 8 weeks.
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 6, Edward II (1910), no. 627.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol6/pp393-406

16 May 1334, Order to Ralph de Middelneye, escheator in the counties of Somerset, Dorset, Cornwall and Devon, to make inquisition touching the lands in the king's hand by reason of the minority of John de Luccoumbe, son and heir of Hugh de Luccoumbe, tenant in chief of Edward II, who has died in the king's ward.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 4, Edward II: 1327-1337 (1913), 402.

24 June 1335, Proof of age of Elizabeth, sister and heir of John, son and heir of Hugh de Luccombe, who died in the King’s wardship. Writ to the escheator to take the proof of age of the said Elizabeth, on the petition of Oliver de Sancto Johanne, her husband, 4 May, 9 Edward III. She was born at Stoklegh Luccombe, co. Devon, on 20 May, 1320, and was baptized on 21 May in the said year by Sir Walter, parish chaplain of the church of All Saints, Cheriton Fitz Payn.
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 7, Edward III (1909), no. 697.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol7/pp479-505

Regards,
John

[antst...@gmail.com]

Thank you John for that. One point however is the information in Savage's work, which I referred to earlier/above, on pages 157-8 which seems to indicate three generation above Hugh, Elizabeth's father not one.

Can I confirm that you consider the IPM of John de Luccombe alias de Loccoumbe. Volume 6. Edward II, 1316-1327, pp. 393-406, No 627 and IPM of John de Luccombe alias de Lockome, de Loccombe Volume 6. Edward II, 1316-1327, pp. 139-149, No 235 to be for the same person. albeit the dates are 6 Oct 1325 & 28 Sept 1325, and 15 November 1319 respectively.

Cheers

[John Watson]

The first inquisitions for John de Luccombe were held on 14 November 1319 for Devon and 15 November 1319 for Somerset, shortly after John died, and where his heir was given as Hugh, his son, aged 24 or 22 [No. 235]. A second set of inquisitions for the same John de Luccombe were held on 28 September 1325 for Devon and 6 October 1325 for Somerset, after the death of Hugh his son which found that his heir was his grandson John, aged 3 years and 8 weeks [No. 627].

Savage's "History of the Hundred of Carhampton" was published in 1830, when the original inquisitions post mortem and the the fine rolls were safely under lock and key in the Tower of London and not accessible to the general public. Savage will have used the "Calendarium Inquisitionum Post Mortem," published by the Record Commission in 1806 as his guide to the inquisitions. Unfortunately this only gives the name of the deceased person and a summary of their land holdings, not their heirs or any other details. Seeing two inquisitions for John de Luccombe in 1319 and 1325 may have led him to assume that there were two different people called John de Luccombe.

Best regards,
John

[antst...@gmail.com]

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 9:20:54 PM UTC+11, antst...@gmail.com wrote:

Thank you very much John

[antst...@gmail.com]

[antst...@gmail.com]

It appears as though Sibyll may not have been the mother of Hugh as all reference to her call her the wife of John but none refer to her as the mother of Hugh