Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Bernard of Abington

106 views
Skip to first unread message

Brad Verity

unread,
Sep 25, 2003, 4:28:31 AM9/25/03
to
Henry Berg wrote some months back:

"John Bernard, of Abington Manor, co. Northants., born ca. 1469, died
1508, is usually said to have been the son of John Bernard and
Margaret Scrope, and to have married a woman named "Margaret
Daundelyn". However, the Inquistion Post Mortem of John [Inq.P.M.
Henry VII # 568] shows that this is not completely correct. It states
that John died 24 Aug 1508; that his mother's name was Mary, not
Margaret, and that he had married, at Blisworth, to MARGARET WAKE,
daughter of Roger Wake and Elizabeth his wife, who later married Sir
John Grey."

W.E. Hampton - in yet another article, 'Roger Wake of Blisworth',
published in the 1985 book "Richard III: Crown and People", edited by
J. Petre -states "He [Roger Wake of Blisworth] appointed as his
executors his wife, Thomas Parmenter, Master of the Hospital of St
John the Baptist at Northampton, John Barnard, esquire, his
son-in-law, and William Wake the elder. [footnote: CIPM H VII, Vol.
II, no. 847, pp. 543-4.]"

"The inquisition further states that his heir was his son
John, then age 18, who had married at Earls Barton 16 Jan 1507/8
Cecily, daughter of John Muscote."

Hampton, in a pedigree chart, names only one child, a son "Richard"
for Margaret Wake and John Barnard.

"I have regrettably not examined the Visitations of Northamptonshire
for the Bernard families, but this Inquisition does raise several
interesting questions. If John (died 1508) was in fact the son of a
woman named Mary, this calls into question the royal descent traced
through Margaret Scrope."

There may be another royal descent - from Edward I. Hampton theorizes
that Roger Wake of Blisworth's mother was Margaret, daughter of Sir
Lewis John, by Anne, daughter of John Montacute, Earl of Salisbury.

"The name "Mary" may be a transcription error
for an abbreviation ("Marg", perhaps?) or alternately, the mother's
name was Mary Scrope, not Margaret."

Hampton in the pedigree says John was the "son of John Barnard of
Abyngdon, Northants, who d. October 1485, and Margaret, sister of
John, Lord Scrope of Bolton."

Digging out my copy of the Scrope article in Dugdale's Visitation of
Yorkshire, we have as the third and final listed daughter of the 4th
Lord Scrope of Bolton: "Margaret, mar. first William Plessington,
secondly Hugh Stafford, thirdly John Bernard, of Abingdon." No Mary -
the other two daughters are named Agnes and Elizabeth.

I would guess you're right - 'Margaret' was really 'Mary', or vice
versa.

"A Wake pedigree which I have not seen, but which is filed in the LDS
Ancestral File, does show Roger Wake and his wife Elizabeth Catesby
having a daughter, Margaret, married to "John Barnard.". There is no
mention of a second spouse for Margaret Wake, but it is possible that
she had a second husband, which might account for the "Daundelyn"
surname applied to her in works such as "Magna Carta Sureties" and
frequently quoted in soc.genealogy.medieval."

John Barnard is the only husband that Hampton lists for Margaret Wake.

"The lineage of Margaret Wake would seem to be as follows: (taken
partly from Ancestral File, augmented by some other internet sources,
but would need extensive documentation.)"

[snip of early generations]

Hampton on the Wake origins says only: "The Wakes of Blisworth derive
their descent from the last Lord wake's great-uncle, Sir Hugh, lord of
Blisworth in Northamptonshire, and Deeping in Lincolnshire, who in
1313 was pardoned for his share in the killing of Piers Gaveston.
[footnote: 'Burke's Peerage and Baronetage', from which much of the
foregoing information is obtained.]"

It's interesting to note that Piers Gaveston had the right to the
marriage of royal ward Thomas Wake at the time Hugh Wake helped kill
him.

"Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, b. ca. 1402 d. 10 Dec 1458, m. AGNES
LOVELL (d. 14 Oct 1471), dau. & coheiress of Sir Thomas Lovell, of
Clevedon, co. Somerset (a marriage date of 30 Sep 1432 is given for
this couple—source unknown)"

Hampton agrees with this completely in his Wake pedigree, and only
adds that this Thomas Wake was Sheriff of Northampton 1434/5-1450.

"Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, born ca. 1433, d. 20 May 1476, married
first, AGNES LOVETT, apparently dau. of Thomas Lovett, lord of the
manors of Astwell, Flacote, Gifford alias Billing, and Wappenham, high
sheriff of co. Northampton (who died 16 Feb 7 Henry VII (1491/2 and
was bur. at Biddlesdon Abbey). [See note below]"

Now we get into discrepancy. Hampton states "He [Roger Wake] was the
eldest surviving son of Thomas Wake by a wife whose name is not
recorded. It is just possible that a monumental brass may provide the
answer to the problem of her identity. At Ingrave, in Essex, may be
seen the brass to Margaret, daughter of Sir Lewes John by Anne,
daughter of John Montacute, Earl of Salisbury. She married twice,
possibly thrice. Her first husband was Sir William Lucy, and her
second was a Wake. His Christian name has not survived. The
inscription is mutilated. [footnote: Margaret died 1466. Like Thomas
Wake, Sir Lewis John was a supporter of the Earl of Warwick. He was
slain, fighting for the Earl, at Barnet. A shield of arms from
Margaret's brass, possibly still loose in the vestry of Ingrave
Church, appears to point to a third, unrecorded, marriage - to a
Goshalm. Her Wake husband could possibly be Thomas Wake of Mordon,
Cambridge, whose will was proved in 1466. In 1465, several notables,
and the Sheriffs of six counties, were ordered to arrest her, Dame
Margaret Lucy, Thomas Wake, esquire, and Thomas Pachet. They were to
be brought before the King in Chancery.]"

The eldest son and heir of Thomas Wake - Roger Wake's elder brother -
was slain at Edgecot near Banbury in 1469, which means Thomas and his
first wife were probably married by the early 1450s. They had two
other sons and a daughter. Hampton states: "In December 1469 the
broken-minded Lord Latimer died. His widow, the Lady Elizabeth
Latimer, daughter of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, soon after
became the second wife of Thomas Wake."

"ROGER WAKE, of Blisworth, * ca. 1452? + 16 Mar 1503/4, married
ELIZABETH CATESBY, daughter of Sir William Catesby, of Ashby St.
Ledgers, co. Northants. (died 1470, bur. Ashby St. Ledgers),
presumably by his second wife Joan Barre. Elizabeth survived him and
married second, Sir John Grey, a son of the 1 Marquess of Dorset."

Hampton states Roger Wake and Elizabeth Catesby were married by 1479.
He also says, "Elizabeth married again, her second husband being a man
who must have been considerably her junior. He was John Grey, younger
[in his pedigree, Hampton calls him third surviving] son of Thomas,
Marquess of Dorset. According to Dugdale, Dorset's [in the pedigree,
sixth] daughter Margaret married Richard Wake, of Blisworth, Elizabeth
Wake's second son, from whom today's Wakes descend."

"[Regarding the wife of the last Sir Thomas Wake (d. 1476). LDS
Ancestral File shows her as "Agnes Lovell", which is exactly the same
name as his mother. However, a website
[http://www.combs-families.org/combs/assoc/lovett/memorials.htm]
indicates that she was Agnes Lovett, and she is described as a
daughter of the above-mentioned Thomas Lovett. The same website,
however, also states that a man named John Broke married first,
Margaret, daughter of Thomas Lovett, and second, Isabel, daughter of
Sir Thomas Wake and Agnes. If this is correct, then John would have
married his first wife's niece, which as I recall would have been
ecclesiastically unacceptable.]"

According to Hampton's pedigree, the one sister of Roger Wake of
Blisworth was "Isabel, m. John Broke".

Hope this helps.

Cheers, ------Brad

Douglas Richardson

unread,
Apr 27, 2014, 1:31:30 PM4/27/14
to
Dear Newsgroup ~

Back in 2003 Henry Berg and Brad Verity posted on the newsgroup regarding the Bernard family of Abington, Northamptonshire. Questions were raised about whether Margaret Scrope (will dated 1496), wife of John Bernard, Esq., of Abington, Northamptonshire (died 1485) was the mother of John Bernard, Esq. (born about 1470, died 1508).

The confusion in this matter was caused due to a misreading of an inquisition post mortem for the second John Bernard, Esq., died 1508. Henry Berg thought the inquisition stated that John's mother's name was Mary, not Margaret. However, as we will see below, the inquisition actually refers to the second John Bernard's first wife as Mary, not his mother.

An abstract of the inquisition in question is published in Calendar of IPM Henry VII 3 (1956): 339-342, which may be viewed at the following weblink:

https://archive.org/stream/calendarofinquis03great#page/338/mode/2up

In this case, there were three successive John Bernard's in a row. The inquisition post mortem in question is for the second John Bernard (died 1508). Reference is made in the inquisition to the second John Bernard's son and heir, the third John Bernard (died 1549), who is specifically stated in the inquisition to have married Cecily, daughter of John Muscote.

After discussing the marriage arrangements for the third John Bernard and his wife, Cecily Muscote, the following statement is made in the inquisition on page 341:

"The said John Bernard, the father ... was also seised of the under-mentioned lands &c. .... as tenant by courtesy of England after the death of Mary, late his wife, the reversion thereof pertaining to John Bernard the son aforesaid, son and heir of John the father and the said Mary." END OF QUOTE.

John Bernard "the father" named here was the second John Bernard. His first wife, Mary Daundelyn, was the mother of the third John Bernard. At the time of his death in 1508, the second John Bernard was holding her lands for life by courtesy of England. At his death, the lands were to fall to their son and heir, the third John Bernard.

I've copied below my current file account for three generations of the Bernard family of Abington, Northamptonshhire. The first generation below commences with Margaret Scrope, wife of the first John Bernard. All my references are provided.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

+ + + + + + + + + + + +

12. MARGARET SCROPE. She married (1st) WILLIAM PLESSINGTON, Esq., son of Henry Plessington, Knt. They had no issue. WILLIAM PLESSINGTON, Esq. died about 1448-9. His widow, Margaret, married (2nd) HUGH STAFFORD. His widow, Margaret, married (3rd) JOHN BERNARD, Esq., of Abington, Northamptonshire, son and heir of Thomas Bernard, Esq., of Abington, Northamptonshire, Clare, Suffolk, by his wife, Margaret Mauntell. John was born about 1437 (aged 28 in 1465). They had five sons, John, Esq., Thomas, Francis, Eustace [Prior of Ravenstone], and Robert (clerk). JOHN BERNARD, Esq., died 3 October 1485. His widow, Margaret, presented to the church of Abington, Northamptonshire 20 Nov. 1485. She left a will dated 1496.

References:

Bridges, Hist. & Antiqs. of Northamptonshire 1 (1791): 400-405. Blore, Hist. & Antiqs. of Rutland 1(2) (1811): 5 (Scrope ped.). Nicolas, Controversy between Scrope & Grosvenor 2 (1832): 58-64, 159. Coll. Top. et Gen. 1 (1834): 302-303 (Neville-Scrope ped.: "Margaret [Scrope], first wedded to Plesyngton; after to Sir John Bernard"), 408 (author states Margaret le Scrope "first wedded to Plesyngton, after to Fouke Stafford, and thirdly to John Barnard, by whom she had issue"). Burke, Gen. Hist. of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited & Extinct Peerages (1866): 480-482 (sub Scrope). Camden, Vis. of Rutland 1618-19 (H.S.P. 3) (1870): 29-30 (Flower ped.: "William Plessington ob. s. p. = ... d. Lord Scroope."). Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 278-281 (Scrope ped.: "Margaret [Scrope] fyrst wyff to.... Plesyngton after to... Stafford = John Barnard 3 husband"). Burke, Gen'l Armory (1884): 75 (arms of Bernard of Abington: Argent a bear rampant sable muzzled or). Metcalfe, Vis. of Northamptonshire 1564 & 1618-9 (1887): 3 (Bernard ped.: "John Bernard of Abington, Esq., eldest son and heir to Thomas, mar. Margaret, da. of the Lord Scrope of Bolton"). Cal. IPM Henry VII 1 (1898): 34. VMHB 6 (1899): 407-411. Higgins, Bernards of Abington & Nether Winchendon 1 (1903): 11-19 (Bernard arms: Argent, a bear rampant sable, muzzled or). Clay, Extinct & Dormant Peerages (1913): 198-202 (sub Scrope of Bolton). VCH Northampton 4 (1937): 65-69. Marks, Medieval Stained Glass of Northamptonshire (1998): lxxiii, 151-153.

13. JOHN BERNARD, Esq., of Abington and Little Brington, Northamptonshire, and, in right of his 1st wife, Barnard's (in Earls Barton), Barnards (in Great Doddington), and Collingtree, Northamptonshire, son and heir, born about 1470 (aged 16 in 1486). He married (1st) before 10 October 1492 (date of inquisition) MARY DAUNDELYN, daughter and heiress of John Daundelyn, of Doddington and Earl's Barton, Northamptonshire. They had two sons, John, Esq., and Richard. He married (2nd) about Michaelmas term 1498 (date of fine) MARGARET WAKE, daughter of Roger Wake, Esq., of Blisworth, Northamptonshire, by Elizabeth, daughter of William Catesby, Knt. He was appointed an executor in the 1503 will of his father-in-law, Roger Wake, Esq. JOHN BERNARD, Esq., died 20 August 1508.

References:

Bridges, Hist. & Antiqs. of Northamptonshire 1 (1791): 400-405. Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 278-281 (Scrope ped.: "John Barnard. = [left blank]"). Metcalfe, Vis. of Northamptonshire 1564 & 1618-9 (1887): 3 (Bernard ped.: "John Bernard of Abington, Esq., eldest son and heir to John, mar. Mary, da. of John Dawndelyn, couzen and heir to William Dawndelyn of Dodington Magna, co. North'ton, Esq."). Cal. IPM Henry VII 1 (1898): 34, 341-342; 3 (1956): 339-342. VMHB 6 (1899): 407-411. Higgins, Bernards of Abington & Nether Winchendon 1 (1903): 20-24. VCH Northampton 4 (1937): 65-69, 113-116, 116-122.

14. JOHN BERNARD, Esq., of Abington and Barnards (in Great Doddington), Northamptonshire, son and heir, born about 1490 (aged 18 in 1508). He married about 16 Jan. 1507/8 CECILY MUSCOTE, daughter of John Muscote, Gent., of Earls Barton, Northamptonshire, by Alice, daughter and heiress of Christopher Beaufew, of Hitchin, Hertfordshire. They had two sons, Francis, Esq., and John, and four daughters, Dorothy (nun at De La Pré Abbey), Mary (wife of George Purley, Gent.), Elizabeth (wife of John Covert and William Dixon), and Bridget (wife of John Dixon). JOHN BERNARD, Esq., died 4 Feb. 1549. His widow, Cecily, died 21 Sept. 1557. They were buried at Abington, Northamptonshire.

References:

Bridges, Hist. & Antiqs. of Northamptonshire 1 (1791): 400-405. Metcalfe, Vis. of Northamptonshire 1564 & 1618-9 (1887): 3 (Bernard ped.: "John Bernard of Abington, eldest son and heir to John, mar. Cisly, da. to John Muscott of Burton in North'ton, Gent."). VMHB 6 (1899): 407-411. Higgins, Bernards of Abington & Nether Winchendon 1 (1903): 24-34. VCH Northampton 4 (1937): 113-116, 116-122. Cal. IPM Henry VII 3 (1956): 339-342. Marks, Medieval Stained Glass of Northamptonshire (1998): 151.

0 new messages