Maud le Scrope, wife of Baldwin Freville, of Tamworth
Douglas Richardson
In 1984, Patrick Montague-Smith published an excellent article on the
Freville family of Tamworth Castle, Staffordshire in the Genealogists'
Magazine, 21 (1984): 185-190. Mr. Montague-Smith correctly delineated
the successive generations of men named Baldwin Freville (five in a
row) whose dates and marriages have always been a bit of a tangled
mess.
When he came to Baldwin de Freville IV (died 1401), he had the
following to say of his marriages:
"He married in 1389, Joan, daughter of Sir Thomas Greene. She died
without issue, and he married secondly, Maud, whose surname has not
been discovered. When he died in 1401, his son, Baldwin V, was found
to have been aged four years."
In addition to the son, Baldwin V, Mr. Montague-Smith shows that
Baldwin Freville IV and his wife, Maud, also had three daughters,
Elizabeth, Joyce, and Margaret.
Curiously, the clue to Maud Freville's identity has been in print for
a good many years. In a well prepared chart on the Scrope family in
Sir N. Harris Nicolas' interesting book, The Controversy between Sir
Richard Scrope and Sir Robert Grosvenor, 2 (1832): 136, he states that
Sir Stephen le Scrope, 2nd Lord Scrope of Masham, and his wife,
Margery Welles, had two daughters as follows:
"Maud Scrope, a nun in the Minories in London. Living Aug. 1415."
"A daughter, married [Sir Baldwin] Frevyll."
Actually, Mr. Nicolas' information on Sir Stephen Scrope's daughters
comes from the 1415 will of his son and heir, Henry le Scrope, K.G.,
3rd Lord Scrope of Masham, which includes the following bequests:
"Item, lego sorori meae Matildi, minorissae Londoniae, unam parvam
tabulam eburneam, sculptam cum imaginibus, etc."
"Item, lego nepoti meo Frevyl i. bonum nouche, & cuilibet suarem
sororum nepotem mearum, aut i. noche, etc."
We see here that Sir Henry le Scrope had a sister, Maud, who was a
Minoress nun, and a Freville nephew with sisters (plural).
Mr. Nicolas was obviously of the impression that Lord Scrope's sister
Maud was a different sister than the mother of the Freville nephew and
nieces. Elsewhere, in note 5 on pg. 133, however, he clearly
indicates he did not know the name of Baldwin Freville IV's second
wife (see note 5 on pg. 133), only his first wife, Joan Greene.
However, as Mr. Montague-Smith has shown, Baldwin Freville's second
wife was in fact named Maud.
Inasmuch as it was customary for widows of high station to become
Minoress nuns in this period, there is no reason to suppose that Lord
Scrope's sister Maud is not the same person as Baldwin Freville's
widow, Maud. For another example of a widow becoming a Minoress nun,
see my former post on the newsgroup regarding the mother of Elizabeth,
wife of John de Beauchamp of Powick.
As for Lord Scrope's Freville nephew and nieces, the bequests in his
will exactly fits the family structure of Maud Freville's children.
As indicated above, Montague-Smith tells us that Baldwin Freville IV
and his wife, Maud, had one son, Baldwin V, and three daughters,
Elizabeth, Joyce, and Margaret. Hence, if Baldwin Freville V was
Lord Scrope's nephew, he would have three sisters and no brothers.
Lord Scrope's will indicates his Freville nephew had at least two
sisters and mentions no brother.
Elsewhere, in his note on pg. 133, Mr. Nicolas claims that Lord
Scrope's will also mentions a niece named Elizabeth Freville. But, no
such niece appears in the careful transcript of the will which appears
on pages 142 to 147 in Mr. Nicolas' book. Quite possibly the niece
Elizabeth Freville is instead mentioned in the 1418 will of Lord
Scrope's brother, Stephen le Scrope, clerk, Archdeacon of Richmond,
which will Mr. Nicolas also transcribed and published.
Unfortunately, I failed to copy Stephen's will when I was making
copies of Mr. Nicolas' comments on this family. If Elizabeth Freville
is mentioned in another family will, it would simply be further
evidence for the identification of her mother Maud being a Scrope.
For interest sake, I have provided below a list of the colonial
immigrants who descend from Baldwin and Maud (le Scrope) Freville.
Full particulars of their descents will be provided in the forthcoming
book, Plantagenet Ancestry, 3rd edition, soon to be released. Perhaps
someone would be helpful and post Maud le Scrope's extensive ancestry
for the benefit of those people who descend from her.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
- - - - - - - -
List of Colonial immigrants who descend from Baldwin and Maud (le
Scrope) Freville, of Tamworth, co. Stafford:
l. Dannett Abney.
2. Nathaniel Browne.
3. Charles Calvert.
4. Grace Chetwode.
5. Jeremy Clarke (two descents).
6. Henry Corbin.
7. John Davenport.
8. Gerard Fowke.
9. Katherine Hamby.
10. Henry, Jane, & Nicholas Lowe.
11. Thomas Owsley.
12. Maria Johanna Somerset.
13. Olive Welby.
John Ravilious
Dear Douglas,
A fantastic find! This expands the ancestry of the Freville
descendants quite dramatically. There are several descents from Henry
I of England, although I see no Plantagenet ancestry for Maud le
Scrope.
Prior to posting an AT, I would like to submit the following
additional line of descent from Sir Baldwin de Freville and Maud le
Scrope to Henry Sewall, which was discovered thanks to the efforts and
contributions of Robert O'Connor.
1. Sir Baldwin de Freville = Maud le Scrope
2. Joyce Freville = Sir Roger Aston, of Tixall, co.
Staffs. (d. 1446)
3. Joan (or Agnes) Aston = Sir Roger Draycott, of Paynsley,
co. Staffs. (d. aft 1470)
4. Jane Draycott = Thomas Noel, of Hilcote, co. Staffs.
5. Robert Noel, of Hilcote & Newbold, co. Staffs. = Maud Brereton
6. James Noel, of Hilcote & Newbold, d. 1546 = Cecily Pole
7. Dorothy Noel, = (lstly) William Swynfen, of Swynfen, co. Staffs.
8. Arthur Swynfen, of Dunchurch, co. Warwick = Alice Ragdale
9. Elizabeth Swinfen or Swynfen = John Dugdale, of Shustoke, co.
Warwick
10. Mary Dugdale = Richard Sewall, of Nuneaton, co. Warwick
11. Henry Sewall, emigrant to Maryland, Secretary of the Province
of Maryland, d. bef 17 Apr 1665 = Jane Lowe
Good luck, and good continued hunting.
John
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.02062...@posting.google.com>...
John Ravilious
Dear Douglas, et al.,
Following is the ancestry of Maud le Scrope, wife of Sir Baldwin
Freville of Tamworth Castle, Staffs.
1. Maud le Scrope, m. (as 2nd wife) Sir Baldwin Freville of Tamworth
Castle, co. Staffs.; d. 1397 [1], [2]
2. Stephen le Scrope, 2nd Lord Scrope (of Masham), b. ca. 1345; m.
[as 2nd husband] Margery de Welles, widow of John de Huntingfield;
summ to Parliament from 23 Nov 1392 [3]; d. 25 Jan 1405/6
3. Margery [Margaret] de Welles [3]
4. Henry le Scrope, of Masham, co. Yorks.; fought at Sluys (1340),
siege of Calais (1347); summ to Parliament from 25 Nov 1350,
whereby held to be lst Lord Scrope; d. 31 Jul 1392 [3]
5. __________
6. John de Welle, 4th Lord Welles; d. 11 Oct 1361 [3]
7. Maud de Ros
8. Geoffrey le Scrope, of Clifton-upon-Ure and Masham, co. Yorks.;
2nd son; supporter of the King against the Earl of Lancaster,
1322; ambassador to Scotland 23 Apr 1327; d. Ghen Dec 1340 [3]
9. Juetta or Yvette de Ros [4]
10. _______
11. _______
12. Adam de Welle, of Faxton, co. Northants; 3rd Lord Welle; summ
to Parliament from 27 Jan 1332/3; m. bef 1334; d. aft 24 Feb
1344/5 [3]
13. Margaret Bardolf; d. bef 28 Feb 1345/6 [3]
14. William de Ros, of Helmsley, co. York; 2nd Lord Ros; m. bef
bef 25 Nov 1326; d. 3 Feb 1342/3 [3]
15. Margery de Badlesmere, eldest daughter; coheiress of brother
Giles, 2nd Lord Badlesmere [3]
16. William le Scrope, of Wensley, co. Yorks.; knighted at the
Battle of Falkirk, 1298; d. bef 1 Feb 1311/2 [3]
17. [Probable] Constance de Newsom, daughter of Thomas de Newsom,
of Newsham on Tees [3]
18. Sir William de Ros, of Ingmanthorpe; b. bef Oct 1268; d.
bef 28 May 1310 [3] -MC DESCENDANT; GT GRANDSON OF WILLIAM
THE LION [KING OF SCOTS]
19. Eustace FitzHugh, daughter of Ralph FitzHugh, heiress of
grandfather Hugh fitz Ralph, of Greasley, co. Notts. [3]
20. _______
21. _______
22. _______
23. _______
24. Adam de Welle, of Faxton, co. Northants.; fought at Falkirk;
summ to Parliament from 6 Feb 1298/9, held thereby to have
become lst Lord Welle; d. 1 Sep 1311 [3] - DESCENDANT OF
CHARLEMAGNE
25. Joan Engaine, daughter of Sir John Engaine, of Laxton, co.
Northants. and Joan de Greinville [3], [5]
26. [probable] Sir Thomas Bardolf, 2nd Lord Bardolf; d. 15 Dec
1328 [3], [6]
27. Agnes [3], [6]
28. William de Ros, of Helmsley, co. Yorks.; Lord Ros; summ
to Parliament from 6 Feb 1298/9, held thereby to have
become lst Lord Ros; competitor for the Scottish crown,
1292; d. bef 16 Aug 1316 [3] - MC DESCENDANT; GT GT
GRANDSON OF WILLIAM THE LION [KING OF SCOTS]
29. Maud de Vaux, younger daughter and coheiress of John de
Vaux [Vallibus], of Pentney, Norfolk and Vaux and Wisset,
Suffolk [3], [7]
30. Bartholomew de Badlesmere, of Badlesmere and Chilham
Castle, Kent; summ to Parliament from 26 Oct 1309,
held thereby to be lst Lord Badlesmere; supporter of
the Earl of Lancaster at Boroughbridge; exe. 14 April
1322 [3]
31. Margaret de Clare, coheiress of her nephew Thomas;
daughter of Thomas de Clare, of Inchiquin and Youghal,
Thomond and his wife Juliane FitzMaurice - MC DESCENDANT;
DESCENDANT OF HENRY I OF ENGLAND [3], [8]
NOTES:
[1] Douglas Richardson, 'Maud le Scrope, wife of Baldwin Freville,
of Tamworth' [first message in this thread]
[2] Weis and Sheppard, The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215 [5th edition]
[3] Complete Peerage [incl. but not limited to Vol. XI, Scrope -
pp. 554 et seq.; see also articles under Ros; Ros of
Ingmanthorpe; Badlesmere; Welle/Welles; & c.]
[4] With regard to the identity of Juetta de Ros, see discussion of
the evidence at CP Vol. XI, p. 560 and note k on that page. The
identification is certain, but not proven.
Note: the descent of Juetta de Ros places Stephen le Scrope and
Margery [Margaret] de Welles in position of consanguinity in
the 4th-5th degrees, by descent from Sir William de Ros (d. 1264)
and Lucy fitz Piers.
[5] Granddaughter of Sir Viel Engaine, subject of the recent SGM
thread <FitzUrse and de Cantelou/Cantilupe>
[6] See discussions of Sir Thomas Bardolf, his marriage(s) and issue
in the SGM archives.
[7] See discussions re: Oliver de Vaux and Petronilla de Craon, the
paternal grandparents of Maud de Vaux, in the SGM archives.
[8] See discussions re: Thomas de Clare, his identification and
descendants, in the SGM archives.
Any relevant observations, corrections or notice re: oversights
are certainly welcome.
Hope this is helpful.
John
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.02062...@posting.google.com>...
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> In 1984, Patrick Montague-Smith published an excellent article on the
> Freville family of Tamworth Castle, Staffordshire in the Genealogists'
> Magazine, 21 (1984): 185-190. Mr. Montague-Smith correctly delineated
> the successive generations of men named Baldwin Freville (five in a
> row) whose dates and marriages have always been a bit of a tangled
> mess.
<<<<<<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CMc...@aol.com
Freville, and John responded with her ancesters -- the Scropes. Especially
for a descendant of Gerard Fowke. This is the way gen-medieval is expected
to work and for once it did. Thank you both. Charlie McNett
The...@aol.com
Hello Charlie,
You're most welcome.
Good luck, and good hunting.
John *
* John P. Ravilious
U...@aol.com
writes:
Thanks for the post John, a few additions
> Friday, 21 June, 2002
>
>
> Dear Douglas, et al.,
>
> Following is the ancestry of Maud le Scrope, wife of Sir Baldwin
> Freville of Tamworth Castle, Staffs.
>
> 1. Maud le Scrope, m. (as 2nd wife) Sir Baldwin Freville of Tamworth
> Castle, co. Staffs.; d. 1397 [1], [2]
>
> 2. Stephen le Scrope, 2nd Lord Scrope (of Masham), b. ca. 1345; m.
> [as 2nd husband] Margery de Welles, widow of John de Huntingfield;
> summ to Parliament from 23 Nov 1392 [3]; d. 25 Jan 1405/6
> 3. Margery [Margaret] de Welles [3]
>
Died 29 May 1422, CP 6:670
> 4. Henry le Scrope, of Masham, co. Yorks.; fought at Sluys (1340),
> siege of Calais (1347); summ to Parliament from 25 Nov 1350,
> whereby held to be lst Lord Scrope; d. 31 Jul 1392 [3]
Born 29 September 1312, CP 11:561
> 5. __________
> 6. John de Welle, 4th Lord Welles; d. 11 Oct 1361 [3]
>
Born 23 August 1334 Bonthorpe, LIN, ENG, CP 12[2]:441
> . Maud de Ros
Died 9 december 1388, CP 12[2]:441
>
> 8. Geoffrey le Scrope, of Clifton-upon-Ure and Masham, co. Yorks.;
> 2nd son; supporter of the King against the Earl of Lancaster,
> 1322; ambassador to Scotland 23 Apr 1327; d. Ghen Dec 1340 [3]
> 9. Juetta or Yvette de Ros [4]
> 10. _______
> 11. _______
> 12. Adam de Welle, of Faxton, co. Northants; 3rd Lord Welle; summ
> to Parliament from 27 Jan 1332/3; m. bef 1334; d. aft 24 Feb
> 1344/5 [3]
> 13. Margaret Bardolf; d. bef 28 Feb 1345/6 [3]
> 14. William de Ros, of Helmsley, co. York; 2nd Lord Ros; m. bef
> bef 25 Nov 1326; d. 3 Feb 1342/3 [3]
> 15. Margery de Badlesmere, eldest daughter; coheiress of brother
> Giles, 2nd Lord Badlesmere [3]
Born abt. 1306, died abt 22 October 1363, CP 11:98-99
> 16. William le Scrope, of Wensley, co. Yorks.; knighted at the
> Battle of Falkirk, 1298; d. bef 1 Feb 1311/2 [3]
> 17. [Probable] Constance de Newsom, daughter of Thomas de Newsom,
> of Newsham on Tees [3]
> 18. Sir William de Ros, of Ingmanthorpe; b. bef Oct 1268; d.
> bef 28 May 1310 [3] -MC DESCENDANT; GT GRANDSON OF WILLIAM
> THE LION [KING OF SCOTS]
> 19. Eustace FitzHugh, daughter of Ralph FitzHugh, heiress of
> grandfather Hugh fitz Ralph, of Greasley, co. Notts. [3]
> 20. _______
> 21. _______
> 22. _______
> 23. _______
> 24. Adam de Welle, of Faxton, co. Northants.; fought at Falkirk;
> summ to Parliament from 6 Feb 1298/9, held thereby to have
> become lst Lord Welle; d. 1 Sep 1311 [3] - DESCENDANT OF
> CHARLEMAGNE
> 25. Joan Engaine, daughter of Sir John Engaine, of Laxton, co.
> Northants. and Joan de Greinville [3], [5]
>
Died 1 June 1315, CP 12[2]:440
Always optimistic--Dave
Ed Mann
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ravilious" <the...@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Maud le Scrope, wife of Baldwin Freville, of Tamworth
> Friday, 21 June, 2002
>
> Dear Douglas,
>
> A fantastic find! This expands the ancestry of the Freville
> descendants quite dramatically. There are several descents from Henry
> I of England, although I see no Plantagenet ancestry for Maud le
> Scrope.
This is a bit under documented between #4 & #5, but this may hold up:
Selected Descendants of Edward I of England
1 King Edward I of England aka: "Longshanks" 1239 - 1307 ref #: BRF:81
+Princess Alianore de Castile 1240 - 1290 ref #: Ä110-30
2 Joan Plantagenet aka: Joan of England; Joan of Acre 1272 - 1307 ref #: PA83:12
+Sir Gilbert de Clare aka: 3d Earl of Gloucester; 7th Earl of Hertford 1243 - 1295 ref #: W28-4
3 Elizabeth de Clare 1292 - 1360 ref #: (PA83:12)
+Sir Roger Damory aka: Lord Damory - 1321/22 ref #: (PA56:13)
4 Elizabeth Damory 1318 - 1363 ref #: PA62:10
+Sir John Bardolf aka: Knt. / 3d Baron Bardolf 1313/14 - 1363 ref #: Ä257-33
5 Margaret Bardolf ref #: BxP:572
+Sir Adam de Welles aka: 3d Baron Welles - 1345 ref #: BxP:572
6 Sir John de Welles aka: 4th Lord Welles - 1361 ref #: BxP:572
+Maud de Ros ref #: BxP:459
7 Margery de Welles 1350 - 1422 ref #: (see notes)
+Sir Stephen le Scrope aka: 2d Baron Scrope of Masham 1345 - 1405/06 ref #: BxP:482
8 Maud le Scrope - 1397 ref #: (PA88:6)
The...@aol.com
Dear Ed,
I would certainly prefer your Gen. 4 & 5 from a 'purely Plantagenet'
point of view; however,
1. As you indicate, John Bardolf, Lord Bardolf
was born ca. 1313 [13 Jan 1313/4 according
to PA 2nd ed.], and married Elizabeth Damory
before 25 Dec 1327.
2. Margaret or Margery Bardolf was m. to Adam
de Welle before 1334 [CP, under Welle, Lord
Welle/Welles]. She was probably born ca.
1310-1320 herself.
3. Margaret or Margery Welles, wife of Stephen
le Scrope [your Gen. 7] probably was born
ca. 1350 - she was married bef 15 Dec 1376.
Margaret [Margery] Bardolf was actually the sister of John, Lord Bardolf,
and the daughter of Sir Thomas Bardolf and his wife Agnes. The link from
Edward I on down is therefore broken at this generation.
I believe in the most recent version of either MC 2nd ed. or AR 7, that a
correction reflecting this is shown - if in AR 7, I have no direct reference
back to that source in hand.
If anyone of the list has a reference to that line as published, please
advise.
Clagett, Brice
According to my record, this Baldwin de Freville died on Oct. 4,
1400, not in 1401 as Doug says. I believe this date comes from his
ipms, CIPM 16:430, 18:133, though I do not have access to them at
the moment.
Magna Charta (sic) Sureties 4th ed. p. 115 says that Maud, second
wife of Baldwin de Freville, died in 1397 (no source cited). This
must be wrong if Doug is right -- and he certainly seems to be --
that she was the sister Matilda named in her brother Henry's will
of 1415.
Ed Mann
"Margaret, daughter of John, Lord Bardolf." That's my only source.
----- Original Message -----
From: <The...@aol.com>
To: <edl...@earthlink.net>; <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Maud le Scrope, wife of Baldwin Freville, of Tamworth
The...@aol.com
Dear Ed,
I'll check and see if I can locate the source, but the problem with the
BxP connection is in the chronology.
BxP would have the lineage as:
1. Sir Thomas Bardolf (1282-1328) = Agnes
2. John Bardolf (Jan 1313/4-1363) = 1327 to Elizabeth
Damory (b. 1318)
3. Margaret Bardolf = bef 1334 to Adam de Welle
(1304-Feb 1344/5)
4. John de Welle (1334-1361) = bef 1346 to Maud de Ros
5. Margaret [Margery] de Welle = Stephen le Scrope
(say 1350 - 1422) (say 1345-1405/6)
[The foregoing dates are from CP, with the exception of the estimated
birth date of #5, Margaret de Welle.]
This would have #2, John Bardolf (b. Jan 1313/4) as the grandfather of
#4, John de Welle (b. 1334) at the grand old age of 21, possibly less.
In this case, at least, BxP is in error. Margaret Bardolf was (as in my
earlier post) the sister of John Bardolf; the Plantagenet descent,
unfortunately, fails at this generation.
malinda
to a few Wright-Washington cousins, one of whom has given permission to
post some of her inputs.....see below.
~malinda
It is up to you about passing it on. I actually was referring to the author
of the piece. He is supposed to have "discovered"
this data. I would like to hear more about the marriage into the Freville
family. There were other connections for us, as you
probably know, when Tamworth passed to the Ferrers with the marriage of Sir
Thomas Ferrers of Tamworth jure uxoris,
m. Elizabeth Frevile (sister and co-heir of Sir Baldwin Frevile. Knt of
Tamworth Castle, co.Warwick.) whose son Sir John
Ferrers of Tamworth Castle had a daughter who m Hercules Beckwith the son of
Sir Hercules de Malebisse who changed his name to Beckwith on his marriage
in 1226, becoming Lord of Uglebarby jure uxoris, Jane Beckwith Bruce, one of
the daus. of Sir William Bruce, Lord of Uglebarby and Roxby, with the manors
of Beckwith & Beckwith Shaw, plus lands in Lewiston or Levinton. These lands
were granted originally toWilliam Bruce's ancester, Robert de Bruce, Lord of
Skelton Castle, in Cleveland, by William the Conqueror.
The above Beckwith line is one of two lines which begin with Hugo de
Malbisse and Emma de Percy, which descend parallel
to each other until the marriage of these two lines: Elizabeth de Malebisse
and Adam Beckwith. Elizabeth was the daughter of
Thomas Malebisse and Mary Palmes, (dau.of Francis), who had two other daus.
Margaret Malebisse who m. Richard Fairfax, and Mary Malebisse (whom I
recently discovered) b. 1370 who m. Robert de Spofforth b. 1360. Thomas
Malebisse (above) had a sister Margaret d. aft. 1394, who m. Thomas Fairfax
of Walton, (son of John Fairfax of Walton (1261-1314) )who m. Clare Scott,
dau. of William Scott m Constance Bruce, dau of Sir Roger Bruce of Walton.
see if some of your "swamies" out there in cyberland can tell us more about
this Bruce.]
malinda
on.
~m
Very interesting, thank you! I was particularly interested in Baldwin de
Freville m Margery le Scrope. The descent however
from Bardolf is not correct. Sir John Bardolph was the son of Thomas
Bardolph, 2nd Lord Bardolf of Wormegay, Norfolk b. 4 Oct. 1282 in Watton
at Stone, Herts.; d. 15 Dec 1329, bur. in Shelford Priory, Notts., age 47
who m. c.1310 Agnes
(poss. a Grandson) [CP, 14:64], who d.11 Dec. 1357, in Ruskington,
Lincolnshire.
Margaret Bardolf who m. Adam de Welles b. 22 July 1304, d. 24-28 Feb.
1344-5, bur. with his wife, (who predeceased him) in the Lady Chapel at
Greenfield Priory. Margaret Bardolf was the sister, not the daughter of Sir
John Bardolf b.13 Jan 1312-13; d. 1363 in Assisi, Italy.
Pass it on... J.
Robert O'Connor
As a descendant of this marriage I am delighted with your find.
Thank you for posting this to the group.
Best wishes
Robert
malinda
a list subscriber. I think it will be helpful to have this conversation
available
(via the list archives) to interested others.
Comments are welcome and will be relayed to the cousins for their response.
Enjoy the day.......~malinda
----- Original Message -----
To: "malinda" <mthi...@swbell.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: Maud le Scrope, wife of Baldwin Freville, of Tamworth
The first Robert de Brus who came into England 1066, d.1094, following his
brother Adam de Bruce who went to England
as an attendant to Queen Emma.
The Beckwith genealogy, which I have had for about ten years (a copy) does
not have the page with the authorship. I copied
it very much in a hurry when I found it in a library in Connecticut. As
usual, I had my family members in tow, and my allotted
time was nearly up, so it was done under pressure. (Don't you just hate
that?) Unfortunately, I picked up the reference to
the first Robert de Brus, who actually did come into England with the
Conqueror, as having received the barony of Sterling,
from this book, when indeed, it was a later Robert de Brus d.1142, who was
granted Skelton by Henry I. This Robert de
Brus, 1st Lord of Annandale, Lord of Cleveland, Baron of Skelton, who
d.1142, was the son of Adam (Adelm) de Brus
(1050-1080-94) and Emma Ramsey, dau of Sir William. The Skelton barony
continues with his son Adam I d. 1143; Adam
II s&h, d. 1196 leaving Peter (Piers) I d. 1222 whose son Peter II d. 1240.
Peter III s&h d.s.p.1272 leaving his sisters heirs:
Agnes, Lucy, Margaret, Laderina, and (prob) Joan.
Can anyone tell me how it affected the sisters' inheritance, when King
Edward I granted the manor of Skelton, in
Cumberland and Skipton Castle in Yorkshire to Robert de Clifford, 1st Lord
Clifford, killed at the Battle of Brannockburn,
24-25 Jun 1314? [Boyer, Ances. of Robert Abell].
J.
Douglas Richardson
In my post this past week on the identity of Maud (le Scrope)
Freville, I noted that Sir N. Harris Nicolas implied in his
Scrope-Grosvenor book that Maud's daughter, Elizabeth Freville, was
named in the will of her uncle, Henry le Scrope, 3rd Lord Scrope of
Masham [see my earlier post below]. However, searching the abstract
of Lord Scrope's will found in this book, I found no reference
whatsoever to Elizabeth Freville, only to a reference to Lord Scrope's
Freville nephew and the nephew's "sisters."
As I suspected, Elizabeth Freville is actually named in the 1418 will
of Lord Scrope's brother, Stephen le Scrope, Archdeacon of Richmond,
which will is also found in the Scrope-Grosvenor book on pages
147-148. Interestingly, the will of Stephen le Scrope also contains a
bequest to Elizabeth Freville's mother, Maud, who was Stephen's
sister:
"Item lego Matilde sorori mea x marcas et i ciphum argenteum et
coopertoriam cum scriptura "Benedictus qui venit in nomine domine," et
i tabellare de evore in ii foliis ligat cum argento."
"Item lego Elizabeth Frevyll vi discos et vi saucers argenteos de
armiis meis propriis et x li. ad maritagium suum etc."
It appears that Stephen le Scrope left 10 pounds of money towards the
marriage of his sister's eldest daughter, Elizabeth Freville. While
Stephen le Scrope doesn't specifically call Elizabeth Freville his
niece, the provision for her marriage and the fact we know that
Stephen le Scrope had Freville nieces suggests that Elizabeth Freville
was in fact one of his nieces.
If Dave Utzinger or someone else has time, perhaps they would be kind
enough to post the skeletal descents from Maud (le Scrope) Freville
down to the colonial immigrants who have this new ancestry.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.02062...@posting.google.com>...
CMc...@aol.com
Gerard Fowke:
Maud le Scrope = Baldwin Freville
Joyce Freville = Roger Aston
Robert Aston = Joan Brereton
John Aston = Elizabeth Delves
Margaret Aston = John Kinnersley
Isabel Kinnersley = John Bradshaw
Anne Bradshaw = John Fowke
Francis Fowke = Jane Raynsford
John Fowke = Dorothy Cupper
Roger Fowke = Mary Bayley
Gerard Fowke = Ann Thoroughgood
Charlie McNett