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Constance Wife of William le Scrope
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John Watson
Apr 25, 2013, 8:52:53 PM4/25/13
to
Hi all,
Some weeks ago I posted here that the mainly 14th century cartulary of
the Scrope family of Bolton, Yorkshire, is available from the British
Library Electronic Theses Online Service, Ethos http://ethos.bl.uk/Home.do
(free registration required).
I recently found another interesting deed in the cartulary which would
appear to require a correction to Complete Peerage.
William le Scrope of Wensley, ancestor of the Scropes of Bolton and of
Masham, who died before 1312, is stated in Complete Peerage, Vol. 11,
p. 534, to have married Constance, almost certainly daughter of
Thomas, son of Gille de Newsom.
In an explantory note, CP states that: "Thomas son of Gilde or Gille
(not Gillo, as in the pedigrees) of Newsham, made more than one grant
of land in Newsham-upon-Tees to the abbey of Rievaulx, and a further
grant was made by Constance daughter of Thomas Gille of Newsham. On 8
Apr 1315 Thomas abbot of Rievaulx and Sir Henry le Scrope entered into
a covenant arranging an exchange of lands etc. in East Bolton,
Wensleydale and Bellerby, the property of the abbey, against lands in
Newsham on Tees, the property of Scrope." [Complete Peerage, Vol. 11,
p. 534, note (k)]. A similar statement is made by N. Harris Nicolas in
the Scrope-Grosvenor Controversy, Vol. 2, p. 10.
However, this assumption by CP and Nicolas appears to be in error,
because the Scrope of Bolton Cartulary contains an undated deed which
shows that Constance, the wife of William le Scrope was the daughter
of Geoffrey son of William de Wensley:
Grant by Geoffrey son of William de Wendeslay to William son of Henry
Lescrop of Wensley, husband of Constance his daughter, of all his land
in Yafforth with appurtenances which William de Bretvill gave him.
That is two bovates of land with toft and croft which William de
Bretvill, grandfather of William de Bretvill gave William de Burgh
with his daughter Matilda, and fifteen acres of land, ten acres in a
ploughland at 'Ingirhou' and five acres in a ploughland at 'Fulsich'
To be held of Geoffrey for life if William produces a son or daughter
with Constance, for a pair of fine (floridi) gloves on Easter day
annually for all services. Warranty Clause against men and women if
William and Constance have children. Witnesses: Richard Riben, Roger
son of Ralph de Wendeslay, John son of Nigell, Richard de Hod, Martin
de Wendeslay.
Brigette Vale, Thesis; The Scropes of Bolton and Masham, Vol. 2
(University of York: 1987) p. 104, No. 227
The deed can probably be dated to the late 1260's. Henry le Scrope,
the eldest son of William and Constance was born before 1268 as he was
presumably of age in 1289 when he acknowledged a debt:
26 November 1289, Henry de Skrop and Peter de Swyningthwayt
acknowledge that they owe to Robert de Bardelby, clerk, 20s.; to be
levied, in default of payment, of their lands and chattels in co.
York.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I: volume 3: 1288-1296 (1904), p. 111
At the time of Kirkby's Inquest in 1284-5, William le Scrope was
recorded as the tenant of four bovates of land in Yafforth (parish of
Danby Wiske) which must have been the land he received from Geoffrey
de Wensley:
Yafforde. Sunt ibi vij car. et j bov., unde xij, etc. : de quibus
Willelmus le Scrop tenet iiij bov.
Surtees Society, Vol. 49, Kirkby's Inquest (1867) p. 176
I was hoping to be able to post some more information here on Geoffrey
son of William de Wensley, but I am unable to find any other reference
to him.
Regards,
John
Some weeks ago I posted here that the mainly 14th century cartulary of
the Scrope family of Bolton, Yorkshire, is available from the British
Library Electronic Theses Online Service, Ethos http://ethos.bl.uk/Home.do
(free registration required).
I recently found another interesting deed in the cartulary which would
appear to require a correction to Complete Peerage.
William le Scrope of Wensley, ancestor of the Scropes of Bolton and of
Masham, who died before 1312, is stated in Complete Peerage, Vol. 11,
p. 534, to have married Constance, almost certainly daughter of
Thomas, son of Gille de Newsom.
In an explantory note, CP states that: "Thomas son of Gilde or Gille
(not Gillo, as in the pedigrees) of Newsham, made more than one grant
of land in Newsham-upon-Tees to the abbey of Rievaulx, and a further
grant was made by Constance daughter of Thomas Gille of Newsham. On 8
Apr 1315 Thomas abbot of Rievaulx and Sir Henry le Scrope entered into
a covenant arranging an exchange of lands etc. in East Bolton,
Wensleydale and Bellerby, the property of the abbey, against lands in
Newsham on Tees, the property of Scrope." [Complete Peerage, Vol. 11,
p. 534, note (k)]. A similar statement is made by N. Harris Nicolas in
the Scrope-Grosvenor Controversy, Vol. 2, p. 10.
However, this assumption by CP and Nicolas appears to be in error,
because the Scrope of Bolton Cartulary contains an undated deed which
shows that Constance, the wife of William le Scrope was the daughter
of Geoffrey son of William de Wensley:
Grant by Geoffrey son of William de Wendeslay to William son of Henry
Lescrop of Wensley, husband of Constance his daughter, of all his land
in Yafforth with appurtenances which William de Bretvill gave him.
That is two bovates of land with toft and croft which William de
Bretvill, grandfather of William de Bretvill gave William de Burgh
with his daughter Matilda, and fifteen acres of land, ten acres in a
ploughland at 'Ingirhou' and five acres in a ploughland at 'Fulsich'
To be held of Geoffrey for life if William produces a son or daughter
with Constance, for a pair of fine (floridi) gloves on Easter day
annually for all services. Warranty Clause against men and women if
William and Constance have children. Witnesses: Richard Riben, Roger
son of Ralph de Wendeslay, John son of Nigell, Richard de Hod, Martin
de Wendeslay.
Brigette Vale, Thesis; The Scropes of Bolton and Masham, Vol. 2
(University of York: 1987) p. 104, No. 227
The deed can probably be dated to the late 1260's. Henry le Scrope,
the eldest son of William and Constance was born before 1268 as he was
presumably of age in 1289 when he acknowledged a debt:
26 November 1289, Henry de Skrop and Peter de Swyningthwayt
acknowledge that they owe to Robert de Bardelby, clerk, 20s.; to be
levied, in default of payment, of their lands and chattels in co.
York.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I: volume 3: 1288-1296 (1904), p. 111
At the time of Kirkby's Inquest in 1284-5, William le Scrope was
recorded as the tenant of four bovates of land in Yafforth (parish of
Danby Wiske) which must have been the land he received from Geoffrey
de Wensley:
Yafforde. Sunt ibi vij car. et j bov., unde xij, etc. : de quibus
Willelmus le Scrop tenet iiij bov.
Surtees Society, Vol. 49, Kirkby's Inquest (1867) p. 176
I was hoping to be able to post some more information here on Geoffrey
son of William de Wensley, but I am unable to find any other reference
to him.
Regards,
John
J Cook
Apr 27, 2013, 2:12:35 PM4/27/13
to
On Apr 25, 8:52 pm, John Watson <watsonjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Some weeks ago I posted here that the mainly 14th century cartulary of
> the Scrope family of Bolton, Yorkshire, is available from the British
> Library Electronic Theses Online Service, Ethoshttp://ethos.bl.uk/Home.do
> (free registration required).
<snip>
> Hi all,
>
> Some weeks ago I posted here that the mainly 14th century cartulary of
> the Scrope family of Bolton, Yorkshire, is available from the British
> Library Electronic Theses Online Service, Ethoshttp://ethos.bl.uk/Home.do
> (free registration required).
> I was hoping to be able to post some more information here on Geoffrey
> son of William de Wensley, but I am unable to find any other reference
> to him.
Wow; that's really interesting. I believe the Wensleys owned pretty
> son of William de Wensley, but I am unable to find any other reference
> to him.
much all off Yafforde, so hopefully there are some more records that
can shed light on the exact relationships there with the Wensleys back
Derek Howard
Apr 27, 2013, 4:06:15 PM4/27/13
to
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:12:35 PM UTC+2, J Cook wrote:
> Wow; that's really interesting. I believe the Wensleys owned pretty
> much all off Yafforde, so hopefully there are some more records that
> can shed light on the exact relationships there with the Wensleys back
I had collected a few references to the Wensley family some time ago but these are not enough to establish a full genealogy and certainly cannot connect to John's Geoffrey son of William:
> Wow; that's really interesting. I believe the Wensleys owned pretty
> much all off Yafforde, so hopefully there are some more records that
> can shed light on the exact relationships there with the Wensleys back
Roger de Wuendislay is juror for inquisition temp Henry III (<1272) re land in Hang Wapentake incl East Witton.
Yorkshire Inquisitions, v I, ed Brown, YAS RS, 1892, 131-2
http://archive.org/stream/cu31924084250582#page/n157/
The 12-13th century tenure of the Wensley fee is discussed in Early Yorkshire Charters, v 5, pp 255-8. There is mention of Osbern son of Nigel de Wendeslae holding a knight’s fee and rendering castle guard, a Nigel son of Alexander, etc.
http://books.google.be/books?id=xHsW2iJCmi0C&pg=PA255
Nicholas de Wendesley is identified as son of Thomas de Ulshaw who in turn it is suggested can probably be identified as the Thomas son of Hugh who married Beatrice daughter of Wimar de Thornton in 1239.
Early Yorkshire Charters, v 5 The Honor of Richmond, part 2, ed Farrer and Clay, p 258 n3
http://books.google.be/books?id=xHsW2iJCmi0C&pg=PA258
Nicholas de Wendesley held land in Wensley (Wendesley) and Ulvershow of the Earl of Richmond in 1284.
“… Kirkby’s Inquest …”, Surtees Society v 49, 1867, 158
http://archive.org/stream/surveycountyyor00exchgoog#page/n190/
Nicholas de Wendesley, and Peter son of John of the same, were jurors for an inquisition ad quod damnum of 26 Mar 1285 regarding land in East Witton and Bedale to be given to the abbot and convent of Jerveaux.
Yorkshire Inquisitions, v II, ed Brown, YAS RS v 23, 1898, 23
http://archive.org/stream/recordseries08assogoog#page/n46/
Nicholas de Wendeslay is a juror for an inquisition ad quod damnum held at Richmond 24 Sep 1295 re: land in Walebrune which is to be granted to the abbot and convent of Coverham.
Yorkshire Inquisitions, v 3, ed Brown, YAS RS v 31, 1902, 19 and 20
http://archive.org/stream/recordseries12assogoog#page/n34/
Galfridus Luterell and Jacobus de Wendesley held land in Wensley (Wendesley) (a note says that Sir Geofrey Luterel held here as guardian of John son and heir of Peter de Wensley, citing Stapleton’s “Trinity Priory, York”, 160) in the Nomina Villarum (1316) for Yorkshire, 337
http://archive.org/stream/surveycountyyor00exchgoog#page/n366/
Derek Howard
John Watson
Apr 27, 2013, 5:06:28 PM4/27/13
to
Unfortunately the VCH North Riding account of Yafforth, makes no
mention of the family of Wensley. The under tenants of the Earls of
Richmond in Yafforth were the family of de Bretville.
'Parishes: Danby Wiske', A History of the County of York North Riding:
Volume 1 (1914), pp. 172-176.
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64737
Regards,
John
John Watson
Apr 27, 2013, 5:38:10 PM4/27/13
to
On Apr 28, 3:06 am, Derek Howard <dhow...@skynet.be> wrote:
> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:12:35 PM UTC+2, J Cook wrote:
> > Wow; that's really interesting. I believe the Wensleys owned pretty
> > much all off Yafforde, so hopefully there are some more records that
> > can shed light on the exact relationships there with the Wensleys back
>
> I had collected a few references to the Wensley family some time ago but these are not enough to establish a full genealogy and certainly cannot connect to John's Geoffrey son of William:
>
> Roger de Wuendislay is juror for inquisition temp Henry III (<1272) re land in Hang Wapentake incl East Witton.
> Yorkshire Inquisitions, v I, ed Brown, YAS RS, 1892, 131-2http://archive.org/stream/cu31924084250582#page/n157/
> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:12:35 PM UTC+2, J Cook wrote:
> > Wow; that's really interesting. I believe the Wensleys owned pretty
> > much all off Yafforde, so hopefully there are some more records that
> > can shed light on the exact relationships there with the Wensleys back
>
> I had collected a few references to the Wensley family some time ago but these are not enough to establish a full genealogy and certainly cannot connect to John's Geoffrey son of William:
>
> Roger de Wuendislay is juror for inquisition temp Henry III (<1272) re land in Hang Wapentake incl East Witton.
>
> The 12-13th century tenure of the Wensley fee is discussed in Early Yorkshire Charters, v 5, pp 255-8. There is mention of Osbern son of Nigel de Wendeslae holding a knight’s fee and rendering castle guard, a Nigel son of Alexander, etc.http://books.google.be/books?id=xHsW2iJCmi0C&pg=PA255
>
> Nicholas de Wendesley is identified as son of Thomas de Ulshaw who in turn it is suggested can probably be identified as the Thomas son of Hugh who married Beatrice daughter of Wimar de Thornton in 1239.
> Early Yorkshire Charters, v 5 The Honor of Richmond, part 2, ed Farrer and Clay, p 258 n3http://books.google.be/books?id=xHsW2iJCmi0C&pg=PA258
> Nicholas de Wendesley is identified as son of Thomas de Ulshaw who in turn it is suggested can probably be identified as the Thomas son of Hugh who married Beatrice daughter of Wimar de Thornton in 1239.
>
> Nicholas de Wendesley held land in Wensley (Wendesley) and Ulvershow of the Earl of Richmond in 1284.
> “… Kirkby’s Inquest …”, Surtees Society v 49, 1867, 158http://archive.org/stream/surveycountyyor00exchgoog#page/n190/
> Nicholas de Wendesley held land in Wensley (Wendesley) and Ulvershow of the Earl of Richmond in 1284.
>
> Nicholas de Wendesley, and Peter son of John of the same, were jurors for an inquisition ad quod damnum of 26 Mar 1285 regarding land in East Witton and Bedale to be given to the abbot and convent of Jerveaux.
> Yorkshire Inquisitions, v II, ed Brown, YAS RS v 23, 1898, 23http://archive.org/stream/recordseries08assogoog#page/n46/
> Nicholas de Wendesley, and Peter son of John of the same, were jurors for an inquisition ad quod damnum of 26 Mar 1285 regarding land in East Witton and Bedale to be given to the abbot and convent of Jerveaux.
>
> Nicholas de Wendeslay is a juror for an inquisition ad quod damnum held at Richmond 24 Sep 1295 re: land in Walebrune which is to be granted to the abbot and convent of Coverham.
> Yorkshire Inquisitions, v 3, ed Brown, YAS RS v 31, 1902, 19 and 20http://archive.org/stream/recordseries12assogoog#page/n34/
> Nicholas de Wendeslay is a juror for an inquisition ad quod damnum held at Richmond 24 Sep 1295 re: land in Walebrune which is to be granted to the abbot and convent of Coverham.
>
> Galfridus Luterell and Jacobus de Wendesley held land in Wensley (Wendesley) (a note says that Sir Geofrey Luterel held here as guardian of John son and heir of Peter de Wensley, citing Stapleton’s “Trinity Priory, York”, 160) in the Nomina Villarum (1316) for Yorkshire, 337http://archive.org/stream/surveycountyyor00exchgoog#page/n366/
>
> Derek Howard
Hi Derek.
> Galfridus Luterell and Jacobus de Wendesley held land in Wensley (Wendesley) (a note says that Sir Geofrey Luterel held here as guardian of John son and heir of Peter de Wensley, citing Stapleton’s “Trinity Priory, York”, 160) in the Nomina Villarum (1316) for Yorkshire, 337http://archive.org/stream/surveycountyyor00exchgoog#page/n366/
>
> Derek Howard
Simon le Scrope, grandfather of the William le Scrope of my earlier
post was of Flotmanby, Yorkshire and Barton in Lincolnshire and was
the first of the family to move to to Wensley in Yorkshire where he
was buried (CP).
He seems to have held property on Wensley in right of his wife
Ingoliane. There is another undated deed in the Scrope cartulary where
Holbert son of Nigel and probably the same person as Osbern son of
Nigel de Wendeslae mentioned in your post, grants land in Wensley to
Simon le Scrope:
Grant by Holbert fitz Nigel to Simon Scrop and Ingoliana his wife for
the homage and service of Simon, of 100 acres of land; 60 acres in
'Hergerges' and 60 acres in the south of his field next to 'Gor' with
tofts pertaining to the land, which Richard de Kateriz gave to Simon
on his marriage to his sister Ingoliana. Besides he gives in addition
2 acres of land, 1 acre next to the mill of William son of Warin and
the other acre next to the house of William Walensis and one toft
which belonged to William son of Walter and another toft which
belonged to John Capellanus. To be held freely and in peace of Holbert
and his heirs. The animals of Simon and his men are to be kept with
Holbert's and he may build a mill if he wishes. The land is to be
measured in perches of twenty feet. Simon and his men may take their
necessities from the wood at Redmire and in the alder timber on 'Gor'.
Simon is to pay a rent of 4s, 2s at Whitsimand 2s at the feast of St.
Martin in winter, for all customs and services. Holbert promises to
defend the land against all royal perogatives, appurtenances of the
earldom and wapentake, and pleas of the earl. Witnesses: Master Ralph
de Stokes, Master Robert Machaele, chaplain, Masters Hugh and Hervey,
Roger de Huntingford, Laurence de Preston, Ralph de Wendeslagh, Robert
de Thorp, William son of Nigel, Walter de Stokes, Clement, clerk,
William de Burgh, Richard de Layburn.
Brigette Vale, Thesis; The Scropes of Bolton and Masham, Vol. 2
(University of York: 1987) p. 24, No. 53
Richard de Kateriz (de Catterick) mentioned in this deed as the
brother of Ingoliane was rector of Wensley in the early 1200's
(Bracton's Notebook, Vol. 3, p. 173). Its possible that Osbert fitz
Nigel fitz Alexander of Wensley and apparently of Ingoldsby in
Lincolnshire, Richard de Catterick and his sister Ingoliane were
related but there does not seem to be any document which shows the
relationship. My guess is that Osbert, Richard and Ingoliane were all
children of Nigel fitz Alexander.
Regards,
John
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