Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Langton - Waterton - Mering Connection
223 views
Skip to first unread message
John Watson
Feb 5, 2016, 10:12:28 AM2/5/16
to
Dear all,
Sir John Langton of York, Huddleston and Farnley was born about 1390, he was the son of John Langton and Joan Neville, daughter of Sir Robert Neville of Hornby, Lancashire (d. 1413). Sir John married before March 1408, Eufemia, thought to be a daughter of John Aske of Ousthorpe (d. 1395) and his wife Joan Shelvestrode.
John Langton and Eufemia had six children: five sons, John, Robert, Henry, William and Thomas, and one daughter Margaret. The York Memorandum Book contains a copy of a document made by Dame Eufemia, after the death of her husband asking for prayers for herself and her children and the soul of her husband John Langton, knight: "domine Eufemie, Johannis, Roberti, Henrici, Willelmi, Thome, et Margarete, liberorum ejusdem Eufemie, et pro animabus domini Johannis Langton, militis, parentum ipsius" [1]. Sir John Langton died on 25 February 1459 and Eufemia died before 24 November 1463, when her will was proved at York.
In the will of Dame Eufemia Langton, dated 26 August 1463, [2] she makes bequests to (among others) her sons and grandsons and to her daughter, Margaret Mering. So in 1463, Margaret Langton was married to a Mering, but which one? I believe, that Margaret married, as his second wife, William Mering, esquire of Mering, Nottinghamshire, who died shortly before 4 November 1466. William Mering's first wife, Elizabeth Neville was living in April 1458, so his marriage to Margaret must have taken place between 1458 and 1463.
Margaret Langton was most probably born about 1420, so this was unlikely to have been her first marriage. So who was her first husband? There is a clue in the will of Eufemia Langton, who leaves a bequest to Eufemia, daughter of Richard Waterton. It appears likely that Margaret's previous husband was Richard Waterton, esquire of Corringham, Lincolnshire and Walton, Yorkshire. Richard Waterton married firstly Constance, daughter of Sir William Asenhill (a.k.a. Harpeden). This marriage took place in 1415, and Constance was still alive in June 1444, so his marriage to Margaret Langton probably took place between 1444 and 1450. It appears that Richard Waterton died at Towton in March 1461, and Margaret married William Mering between 1461 and 1463.
here is a further confirmation of the marriage of Margaret Langton and Richard Waterton. Between 1480 and 1483, there was a case in the Court of Chancery between Robert Langton, esquire (one of the sons of Sir John Langton and Eufemia) and Thomas Belyngeham, esquire, concerning money promised to the complainant for the marriage of his nephew, Richard, son of Richard Waterton [3].
It appears that Richard Waterton and Margaret Langton had at least two children, Eufemia and Richard Waterton.
Regards,
John
Sources:
1. York Memorandum Book, Part II, Surtees Society, 125, (Durham, 1915), 224.
2. Testamenta Eboracensia, Part II, Surtees Society, 30 (Durham, 1855), 258.
3. Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Early Proceedings, Richard II to Philip and Mary, C 1/62/237.
Sir John Langton of York, Huddleston and Farnley was born about 1390, he was the son of John Langton and Joan Neville, daughter of Sir Robert Neville of Hornby, Lancashire (d. 1413). Sir John married before March 1408, Eufemia, thought to be a daughter of John Aske of Ousthorpe (d. 1395) and his wife Joan Shelvestrode.
John Langton and Eufemia had six children: five sons, John, Robert, Henry, William and Thomas, and one daughter Margaret. The York Memorandum Book contains a copy of a document made by Dame Eufemia, after the death of her husband asking for prayers for herself and her children and the soul of her husband John Langton, knight: "domine Eufemie, Johannis, Roberti, Henrici, Willelmi, Thome, et Margarete, liberorum ejusdem Eufemie, et pro animabus domini Johannis Langton, militis, parentum ipsius" [1]. Sir John Langton died on 25 February 1459 and Eufemia died before 24 November 1463, when her will was proved at York.
In the will of Dame Eufemia Langton, dated 26 August 1463, [2] she makes bequests to (among others) her sons and grandsons and to her daughter, Margaret Mering. So in 1463, Margaret Langton was married to a Mering, but which one? I believe, that Margaret married, as his second wife, William Mering, esquire of Mering, Nottinghamshire, who died shortly before 4 November 1466. William Mering's first wife, Elizabeth Neville was living in April 1458, so his marriage to Margaret must have taken place between 1458 and 1463.
Margaret Langton was most probably born about 1420, so this was unlikely to have been her first marriage. So who was her first husband? There is a clue in the will of Eufemia Langton, who leaves a bequest to Eufemia, daughter of Richard Waterton. It appears likely that Margaret's previous husband was Richard Waterton, esquire of Corringham, Lincolnshire and Walton, Yorkshire. Richard Waterton married firstly Constance, daughter of Sir William Asenhill (a.k.a. Harpeden). This marriage took place in 1415, and Constance was still alive in June 1444, so his marriage to Margaret Langton probably took place between 1444 and 1450. It appears that Richard Waterton died at Towton in March 1461, and Margaret married William Mering between 1461 and 1463.
here is a further confirmation of the marriage of Margaret Langton and Richard Waterton. Between 1480 and 1483, there was a case in the Court of Chancery between Robert Langton, esquire (one of the sons of Sir John Langton and Eufemia) and Thomas Belyngeham, esquire, concerning money promised to the complainant for the marriage of his nephew, Richard, son of Richard Waterton [3].
It appears that Richard Waterton and Margaret Langton had at least two children, Eufemia and Richard Waterton.
Regards,
John
Sources:
1. York Memorandum Book, Part II, Surtees Society, 125, (Durham, 1915), 224.
2. Testamenta Eboracensia, Part II, Surtees Society, 30 (Durham, 1855), 258.
3. Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Early Proceedings, Richard II to Philip and Mary, C 1/62/237.
Patricia Junkin via
Feb 5, 2016, 7:53:11 PM2/5/16
to John Watson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I am interested in the Shevelstrode marriage. This family was from Lingfield, Surrey and I have a marriage with a de Burstowe about a hundred years before we find Roger Shevelstrode married to Eve Dawtrey ca 1300. Do you have Joan's family?
Pat
Sent from my iPhone
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Pat
Sent from my iPhone
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
John Watson
Feb 5, 2016, 10:01:16 PM2/5/16
to
I have been unable to determine the parentage of Roger de Shelvestrode. He may have been the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode or John de Shelvestrode.
Regards,
John
John Watson
Feb 6, 2016, 12:12:48 AM2/6/16
to
On Saturday, 6 February 2016 03:01:16 UTC, John Watson wrote:
> On Saturday, 6 February 2016 00:53:11 UTC, Patricia Junkin via wrote:
> > I am interested in the Shevelstrode marriage. This family was from Lingfield, Surrey and I have a marriage with a de Burstowe about a hundred years before we find Roger Shevelstrode married to Eve Dawtrey ca 1300. Do you have Joan's family?
> > Pat
>
> On Saturday, 6 February 2016 00:53:11 UTC, Patricia Junkin via wrote:
> > I am interested in the Shevelstrode marriage. This family was from Lingfield, Surrey and I have a marriage with a de Burstowe about a hundred years before we find Roger Shevelstrode married to Eve Dawtrey ca 1300. Do you have Joan's family?
> > Pat
>
> Dear Pat,
>
> I have been unable to determine the parentage of Roger de Shelvestrode. He may have been the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode or John de Shelvestrode.
>
> Regards,
> John
Update: Roger de Shelvestrode was the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode:
>
> I have been unable to determine the parentage of Roger de Shelvestrode. He may have been the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode or John de Shelvestrode.
>
> Regards,
> John
20 February 1303, Roger son of Adam de Solvestrode acknowledges that he owes to William de Marisco £40; to be levied, in default of payment, of his lands and chattels in co. Sussex.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I, vol. 5, 1302-1307 (1908), 75.
Regards,
John
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
Feb 6, 2016, 6:50:57 AM2/6/16
to
On 2016-02-05 15:12:25 +0000, John Watson said:
> It appears likely that Margaret's previous husband was Richard
> Waterton, esquire of Corringham, Lincolnshire and Walton, Yorkshire.
> Richard Waterton married firstly Constance, daughter of Sir William
> Asenhill (a.k.a. Harpeden). This marriage took place in 1415, and
> Constance was still alive in June 1444, so his marriage to Margaret
> Langton probably took place between 1444 and 1450. It appears that
> Richard Waterton died at Towton in March 1461, and Margaret married
> William Mering between 1461 and 1463.
Hello, John Watson --
> It appears likely that Margaret's previous husband was Richard
> Waterton, esquire of Corringham, Lincolnshire and Walton, Yorkshire.
> Richard Waterton married firstly Constance, daughter of Sir William
> Asenhill (a.k.a. Harpeden). This marriage took place in 1415, and
> Constance was still alive in June 1444, so his marriage to Margaret
> Langton probably took place between 1444 and 1450. It appears that
> Richard Waterton died at Towton in March 1461, and Margaret married
> William Mering between 1461 and 1463.
In the second part of your excellent "The Two John Watertons" article
for SGM in November 2014
(http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2014-11/1414940074)
you wrote that "John Waterton was succeeded by his son Richard, who was
probably born about 1400. On 2 May 1421, Richard son and heir of John
Waterton, esquire, and his executors had a pardon from the king of 'all
debts, accounts, prests, receipts, liveries, wastes, stripments,
dilapidations, exiles, trespasses, impeachments, misprisions, losses,
actions, complaints, demands, farms, arrears, concealments, fines,
issues and amercements' which seems to have covered just about
everything except murder. [...] Richard Waterton later married
Constance Asshenhul and was the ancestor of the Waterton family of Burn
(in Brayton), Walton, Cawthorne, and Minsthorpe (in South Kirkby),
Yorkshire and Corringham, Lincolnshire."
This would seem to indicate that Richard Waterton and Constance
Asenhill were married after 1421. In addition, the History of
Parliament entry on Constance's father William Asenhill
(http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/asenhill-william-1443)
says that his daughter Constance married Richard Waterton "in about
1435". Of course, since the History of Parliament's article on
Richard's father John contains a number of the conflations and other
errors that you addressed in "The Two John Watertons," it seems
entirely plausible that they're confused on the date of Richard and
Constance's marriage as well.
At any rate, I'm sure you have good reasons for relocating the date of
Richard and Constance's marriage to 1415, but I would be very
interested in hearing them spelled out. Also, does this also mean you
now reckon Richard Waterton to have been born, not "about 1400" but a
few years earlier?
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
about.me/patricknh
http://nielsenhayden.com/genealogy-tng/index.php
john.w...@cantab.net
Feb 6, 2016, 9:23:47 AM2/6/16
to
J.W. Walker, OBE, FSA. The Burghs of Cambridgeshire and Yorkshire and the Watertons of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire (1931) The Yorkshire Archæological Journal XXX pp.314-419.
John Watson
Feb 6, 2016, 10:31:17 AM2/6/16
to
Sorry, Richard and Constance were married in 1435, or early 1436. I meant to write 1435. The evidence is this fine:
1 July 1436, County: Yorkshire. Place: Westminster. Date: One week from St John the Baptist, 14 Henry VI. Parties: William Asenhill', knight, querent, and Richard Waterton' and Constance, his wife, deforciants. Property: The manors of Byrne, Walton', Calthorn' and Mansthorp'. Action: Plea of covenant. Agreement: William has acknowledged the manors to be the right of Constance, as those which Richard and Constance have of his gift. For this: Richard and Constance have granted to William the manors and have rendered them to him in the court, to hold to William, without impeachment of waste, for the life of William, of Richard and Constance and the heirs of Constance, rendering yearly 1 rose at the feast of the Nativity of St John the Baptist, and doing to the chief lords all other services. And after the decease of William the manors shall revert to Richard and Constance and the heirs of Constance, quit of the heirs of William, to hold of the chief lords for ever.
Feet of Fines: CP 25/1/280/159, number 24.
Regards,
John
John Watson
Feb 6, 2016, 11:05:45 AM2/6/16
to
I don't know why Walker says that he died in 1479. There are two writs of diem clausit extremum for him, one dated 11 May 1461, for Yorkshire and one dated 22 July 1461 for Lincolnshire.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 20, Edward IV, Henry VI: 1461-1471 (1949), 2.
There do not appear to be any surviving inquisitions.
He was certainly dead before 1466:
1 August 1466, This indenture made the first day of August the sixt yere of the regne of Kinge Edward the iiijth, betwix Richard Welles Lord Willughby, knight, vpon the oon p'ty, and Robert Waterton, knyght, vpon that other p'ty. Wittenesseth that the said p'ties arne agreed that howbeit that the said Lorde & Thomas Metham thelder knyght haue geben & graunted and by thaire chartur' confermed to Robert ffleminge, clerk, Deane of the Cathederall kirk of Lincoln, Thom's Dymmok knight, & others All thair maners, landes, & tenementes wt thair appurten'nees in the counte of York wheche late they had to geder wt Lyon late Lord Welles knyght, Walter Caluerlev, Richard Waterton squires, now deade, of the takinge and dimise of Gilbert lee, Raynald Tynley, & Thomas Elys, To haue & to holde all the said maners landes & tenementes wt thair appurten'nees to the fforesaid Deane, Thomas Dymmok & others, & to thair heires and assigns for eu'more, as in the said dede beringe date the first day of August the vj yere of the Regne of Kinge Edward the iiijth more playnly it apperith. To thentent that the said fleffes shall suffer the said Richard Welles the lord Willughby to tak c m'rc yerely of the issuwes et p'fetts of the maners, landes, & tenementes wt thair appurten'nees aforesaid vnto suche tyme that certaigne dettes contaigned wtin xxvij obligations be fully content and payde. In witteness whereof to thes Indentures the said p'ties int'chaungeabl .... haue putte thair sealles the day and yere aboue said at bellowe [Belleau, Lincolnshire].
Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of London, Second Series, vol. 4 (1870), 17.
I assume that he died at Towton on 29 March 1461, together with Lionel Lord Welles.
Regards,
John
Hans Vogels
Feb 7, 2016, 4:33:34 AM2/7/16
to
Hello John,
I noticed the family name Neville twice in this post. Were these two persons related or are they of different families? I just wondered if the two spouses of William Mering were out of the bounds of close consanguinity (4th degree)?
Sir Robert Neville of Hornby
Joan Neville x John Langton
Sir John Langton x Eufemia
Margaret Langton x Richard Waterton
xx William Mering x Elizabeth Neville
Hans Vogels
Op vrijdag 5 februari 2016 16:12:28 UTC+1 schreef John Watson:
I noticed the family name Neville twice in this post. Were these two persons related or are they of different families? I just wondered if the two spouses of William Mering were out of the bounds of close consanguinity (4th degree)?
Sir Robert Neville of Hornby
Joan Neville x John Langton
Sir John Langton x Eufemia
Margaret Langton x Richard Waterton
xx William Mering x Elizabeth Neville
Hans Vogels
Op vrijdag 5 februari 2016 16:12:28 UTC+1 schreef John Watson:
John Watson
Feb 7, 2016, 8:54:07 AM2/7/16
to
William Mering II married firstly Elizabeth Neville, daughter of Thomas Neville of Rolleston, Nottinghamshire and secondly I propose Margaret Langton.
Margaret Langton's grandmother was Joan Neville, daughter of Robert Neville of Hornby, Lancashire.
The Nevilles of Rolleston were said to be descended from Henry Neville, chamberlain to Henry II. The Nevilles of Hornby, were descended from Geoffrey de Neville, a tenant of the abbot of Peterborough in Lincolnshire at the time of Domesday, so if these Nevilles were related, the relationship was very distant.
Regards,
John
Patricia A. Junkin via
Feb 7, 2016, 10:16:10 AM2/7/16
to John Watson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
John de Burstowe born circa 1175 who married a sister of William de Shovelstrude of Lingfield which lies just to the north of East Grinstead ånd southeast of Burstow
[PJ1]#620, Inter Johem. de Scholuestrode quer' et Thom de aldham et Isab. ux' ejus imped': De uno mesuagio et triginta et quatuor acris terre in Grenstede; unde placitum warantie carte sum' fuit inter eos: Thos et Isab. recognoverunt predictum mesuagium et terram scil' illud et terram mesuagium et terram quam Sygardus et Wytherestede aliquando tenuit esse jus Johis., tenenda, &c., reddendo quatuor sol' ad duos terminos scil' med' ad Natale Dom,ini et alteram med' as Nativtatem Sci. Johis Bapte., et faciendo forinsecum servicium pro omni servicio ad Thom. et Isab. pertinente faciendo aliis dominis feodi illius omnia servicia &c. Pro hoc Johes dedit Thome et Isab quadraginta solidos [41 Hen III. Westm. Oct. Sci. Michis-File 21, No. 7] Sussex Record Society, Volume 7. the ociety. 1908, p. 30.
William de Shovelstrude, prior of Michelham held 1/3 of manor of Northese of the king in chief.[1]
After 1190: Susex—Assisa inter Willelmum de Selvestrod petentem et Alexandrum fratrem suum tenentem de j. virgata terre cum pertientiis in Selvestrod ponitur in respectum usque in xv dies destum sancte Trinitatis pro defectu recognitorum, quia....[1]Curia regis rolls C T Flower; Paul Brand; Great Britain. Curia regis.; Great Britain. Public Record Office. London : H. M. Stationery office, 1922-<2002 > p. 213. An Abstract of Feet of Fines For the County of Sussex: Vol. 1, 1190-1248. Originally published by Sussex Record Society, Lewes, 1903. P.124. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol1/pp143-156#s25
The area of Lingfield was the seat of the Cobhams of Sterborough and on the death of Ralph de Cobham: Nicholas Shevelstrode held a messuage, land, meadow and rent in Bottelegh.
The 1200's are the weakness in the line. I would think, however, that if Roger de Shevelstode who married Eve Dawtry was the son of Adam, the we may assume he was born mid 1200's.
Thanks,
Pat
[PJ1]#620, Inter Johem. de Scholuestrode quer' et Thom de aldham et Isab. ux' ejus imped': De uno mesuagio et triginta et quatuor acris terre in Grenstede; unde placitum warantie carte sum' fuit inter eos: Thos et Isab. recognoverunt predictum mesuagium et terram scil' illud et terram mesuagium et terram quam Sygardus et Wytherestede aliquando tenuit esse jus Johis., tenenda, &c., reddendo quatuor sol' ad duos terminos scil' med' ad Natale Dom,ini et alteram med' as Nativtatem Sci. Johis Bapte., et faciendo forinsecum servicium pro omni servicio ad Thom. et Isab. pertinente faciendo aliis dominis feodi illius omnia servicia &c. Pro hoc Johes dedit Thome et Isab quadraginta solidos [41 Hen III. Westm. Oct. Sci. Michis-File 21, No. 7] Sussex Record Society, Volume 7. the ociety. 1908, p. 30.
William de Shovelstrude, prior of Michelham held 1/3 of manor of Northese of the king in chief.[1]
After 1190: Susex—Assisa inter Willelmum de Selvestrod petentem et Alexandrum fratrem suum tenentem de j. virgata terre cum pertientiis in Selvestrod ponitur in respectum usque in xv dies destum sancte Trinitatis pro defectu recognitorum, quia....[1]Curia regis rolls C T Flower; Paul Brand; Great Britain. Curia regis.; Great Britain. Public Record Office. London : H. M. Stationery office, 1922-<2002 > p. 213. An Abstract of Feet of Fines For the County of Sussex: Vol. 1, 1190-1248. Originally published by Sussex Record Society, Lewes, 1903. P.124. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol1/pp143-156#s25
The area of Lingfield was the seat of the Cobhams of Sterborough and on the death of Ralph de Cobham: Nicholas Shevelstrode held a messuage, land, meadow and rent in Bottelegh.
The 1200's are the weakness in the line. I would think, however, that if Roger de Shevelstode who married Eve Dawtry was the son of Adam, the we may assume he was born mid 1200's.
Thanks,
Pat
John Watson
Feb 7, 2016, 12:03:39 PM2/7/16
to
On Sunday, 7 February 2016 15:16:10 UTC, Patricia A. Junkin via wrote:
> John de Burstowe born circa 1175 who married a sister of William de Shovelstrude of Lingfield which lies just to the north of East Grinstead ånd southeast of Burstow
>
> [PJ1]#620, Inter Johem. de Scholuestrode quer' et Thom de aldham et Isab. ux' ejus imped': De uno mesuagio et triginta et quatuor acris terre in Grenstede; unde placitum warantie carte sum' fuit inter eos: Thos et Isab. recognoverunt predictum mesuagium et terram scil' illud et terram mesuagium et terram quam Sygardus et Wytherestede aliquando tenuit esse jus Johis., tenenda, &c., reddendo quatuor sol' ad duos terminos scil' med' ad Natale Dom,ini et alteram med' as Nativtatem Sci. Johis Bapte., et faciendo forinsecum servicium pro omni servicio ad Thom. et Isab. pertinente faciendo aliis dominis feodi illius omnia servicia &c. Pro hoc Johes dedit Thome et Isab quadraginta solidos [41 Hen III. Westm. Oct. Sci. Michis-File 21, No. 7] Sussex Record Society, Volume 7. the ociety. 1908, p. 30.
>
> William de Shovelstrude, prior of Michelham held 1/3 of manor of Northese of the king in chief.[1]
>
> After 1190: Susex--Assisa inter Willelmum de Selvestrod petentem et Alexandrum fratrem suum tenentem de j. virgata terre cum pertientiis in Selvestrod ponitur in respectum usque in xv dies destum sancte Trinitatis pro defectu recognitorum, quia....[1]Curia regis rolls C T Flower; Paul Brand; Great Britain. Curia regis.; Great Britain. Public Record Office. London : H. M. Stationery office, 1922-<2002 > p. 213. An Abstract of Feet of Fines For the County of Sussex: Vol. 1, 1190-1248. Originally published by Sussex Record Society, Lewes, 1903. P.124. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol1/pp143-156#s25
> John de Burstowe born circa 1175 who married a sister of William de Shovelstrude of Lingfield which lies just to the north of East Grinstead ånd southeast of Burstow
>
> [PJ1]#620, Inter Johem. de Scholuestrode quer' et Thom de aldham et Isab. ux' ejus imped': De uno mesuagio et triginta et quatuor acris terre in Grenstede; unde placitum warantie carte sum' fuit inter eos: Thos et Isab. recognoverunt predictum mesuagium et terram scil' illud et terram mesuagium et terram quam Sygardus et Wytherestede aliquando tenuit esse jus Johis., tenenda, &c., reddendo quatuor sol' ad duos terminos scil' med' ad Natale Dom,ini et alteram med' as Nativtatem Sci. Johis Bapte., et faciendo forinsecum servicium pro omni servicio ad Thom. et Isab. pertinente faciendo aliis dominis feodi illius omnia servicia &c. Pro hoc Johes dedit Thome et Isab quadraginta solidos [41 Hen III. Westm. Oct. Sci. Michis-File 21, No. 7] Sussex Record Society, Volume 7. the ociety. 1908, p. 30.
>
> William de Shovelstrude, prior of Michelham held 1/3 of manor of Northese of the king in chief.[1]
>
>
> The area of Lingfield was the seat of the Cobhams of Sterborough and on the death of Ralph de Cobham: Nicholas Shevelstrode held a messuage, land, meadow and rent in Bottelegh.
>
> The 1200's are the weakness in the line. I would think, however, that if Roger de Shevelstode who married Eve Dawtry was the son of Adam, the we may assume he was born mid 1200's.
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
> On Feb 5, 2016, at 11:12 PM, John Watson via wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, 6 February 2016 03:01:16 UTC, John Watson wrote:
> >> On Saturday, 6 February 2016 00:53:11 UTC, Patricia Junkin via wrote:
> >>> I am interested in the Shevelstrode marriage. This family was from Lingfield, Surrey and I have a marriage with a de Burstowe about a hundred years before we find Roger Shevelstrode married to Eve Dawtrey ca 1300. Do you have Joan's family?
> >>> Pat
> >>
> >> Dear Pat,
> >>
> >> I have been unable to determine the parentage of Roger de Shelvestrode. He may have been the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode or John de Shelvestrode.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> John
> >
> > Update: Roger de Shelvestrode was the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode:
> >
> > 20 February 1303, Roger son of Adam de Solvestrode acknowledges that he owes to William de Marisco £40; to be levied, in default of payment, of his lands and chattels in co. Sussex.
> > Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I, vol. 5, 1302-1307 (1908), 75.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Dear Pat,
> The area of Lingfield was the seat of the Cobhams of Sterborough and on the death of Ralph de Cobham: Nicholas Shevelstrode held a messuage, land, meadow and rent in Bottelegh.
>
> The 1200's are the weakness in the line. I would think, however, that if Roger de Shevelstode who married Eve Dawtry was the son of Adam, the we may assume he was born mid 1200's.
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
> On Feb 5, 2016, at 11:12 PM, John Watson via wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, 6 February 2016 03:01:16 UTC, John Watson wrote:
> >> On Saturday, 6 February 2016 00:53:11 UTC, Patricia Junkin via wrote:
> >>> I am interested in the Shevelstrode marriage. This family was from Lingfield, Surrey and I have a marriage with a de Burstowe about a hundred years before we find Roger Shevelstrode married to Eve Dawtrey ca 1300. Do you have Joan's family?
> >>> Pat
> >>
> >> Dear Pat,
> >>
> >> I have been unable to determine the parentage of Roger de Shelvestrode. He may have been the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode or John de Shelvestrode.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> John
> >
> > Update: Roger de Shelvestrode was the son of Sir Adam de Shelvestrode:
> >
> > 20 February 1303, Roger son of Adam de Solvestrode acknowledges that he owes to William de Marisco £40; to be levied, in default of payment, of his lands and chattels in co. Sussex.
> > Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I, vol. 5, 1302-1307 (1908), 75.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I think that Roger de Shelvestrode who married Eve Dautrey was a relatively young man when he died sometime between 1310, which is the last record I can find for him and 1314, when Eve was married to William Paynel. I would put his birth date sometime around 1280-85. He had letters of protection serving in Scotland in September 1310, maybe he died there.
It is impossible to put together a family tree for the Shelvestroce family in the thirteenth century from the few scattered records we have for them. As well as Adam, there was a contemporary John de Shelvestrode, steward of the king's forest of Fakenham, also a Nicholas de Shelvestrode in Sussex and a Walter de Shelvestrode in Bedfordshire.
Regards,
John
John Watson
Feb 9, 2016, 12:04:41 AM2/9/16
to
Concerning the death date of Richard Waterton. Walker writes that (p. 393) "Richard Waterton died early in 1479. and his inq. p. m. was taken on 27 March of that year." However, the TNA catalogue does not contain any reference to this inquisition, neither is the inquisition listed in Calendarioum Inquisitionum Post Mortem sive Escaetarum, vol. iv, so it is unclear where Walker obtained this information because he gives no source.
Walker also writes (p. 393) that "Richard Waterton was present at the Parliament held at Westminster in November 1461"; citing Ann. Will. de Wyrcester, 778 (Rolls ed.), ii, 31. However the actual text says that Ricardus Watyrton, armiger was one of those attainted at this parliament.
Joseph Stevenson, ed., Letters and Papers Illustrative of the Wars of the English in France during the reign of Henry the Sixth, King of England, vol. 2, part 2, Rolls Series (London, 1864), 778: Wilhelmi Wyrcester Annales
https://books.google.com/books?id=5flDAQAAMAAJ
So I stick with my assertion that Richard Waterton died at Towton in March 1461.
Regards,
John
Patricia A. Junkin via
Feb 10, 2016, 1:15:41 PM2/10/16
to John Watson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I agree that there is a dearth of material for this family, so while a pedigree may be impossible, I do have this addition:
E 40/4071 Agreement between the prior of Lewes and John de Sholvestrode, that the said John shall use every means to compel Agnes, daughter and heiress of Robert de Felbrigge, son of Walter de la Saghe, and William le Turnur, Agnes's husband, to carry out the agreement between the said prior and the said Agnes and William, concerning a tenement in Chertham, in the town of Tunrugge; for the faithful observance of which John has submitted himself to the distraint of the bailiff of Pevensel for the time being &c. Witnesses:- Nicholas Malemeins, and others (named): [Surrey.]The prior's manor at Hymbelhorne, 1 June, A.D. 1255.
Best,
Pat
E 40/4071 Agreement between the prior of Lewes and John de Sholvestrode, that the said John shall use every means to compel Agnes, daughter and heiress of Robert de Felbrigge, son of Walter de la Saghe, and William le Turnur, Agnes's husband, to carry out the agreement between the said prior and the said Agnes and William, concerning a tenement in Chertham, in the town of Tunrugge; for the faithful observance of which John has submitted himself to the distraint of the bailiff of Pevensel for the time being &c. Witnesses:- Nicholas Malemeins, and others (named): [Surrey.]The prior's manor at Hymbelhorne, 1 June, A.D. 1255.
Best,
Pat
0 new messages