Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.

Ancestry of the Lords Fauconberg: Thomas fitz Richard de Cuckney

Skip to first unread message

Oct 3, 2005, 12:09:39 PM10/3/05
Monday, 3 October, 2005

Hello All,

My dated notes from CP indicate that the account of the Lords
Fauconberg(e) shows Agnes, paternal grandmother of Sir Walter, 1st
Lord Fauconberg (d. 2 Nov 1304 - see # below) as
daughter and heiress of Simon fitz Simon of Whitton and Risby, co.
Lincoln, but without further ancestry shown. The records given in
Monasticon Anglicanum [1] and VCH Notts. [2] provide an extended
pedigree from Thomas fitz Richard de Cuckney, benefactor of the abbey
of Welbeck, Notts., which pedigree as documented to date is provided

A note to Leo and Ian: the pedigree below reflects links to
individuals currently shown in Genealogics without extended ancestry
(Fauconberg, for example). Given the link to Despenser and Wentworth
(of Nettlestead), this will also reflect further ancestry for Prince
William, not to mention many list members and others besides.



NOTES (to post):

[1] See note [1] in the pedigree below.

[2] See note [2] in the pedigree below


1 Josce 'le Flemangh'

allegedly came to England at the time of the Conquest:
"Joceus le Flemmangh venit ad conquestum Angliae tempore Willielmi
ducis Normanniae, et quaesivit in Cukeney tertiam partem feodi unius
militis " [Mon.Angl. VI(2):872, Num. I, II[1]]

cf. Mon. Angl. VI(2):872-4[1]
VCH (Notts.) 2:129-38[2]

Children: Richard

1.1 Richard fitz Josce

of Cuckney, co. Notts.

benefactor of Welbeck abbey[1]

' Joceus begat a son named Richard who married a Nottingham lady.
There was living in Cuckney a man called Gamelbere, described as a
'dreng,' who held, before the Conquest, two carucates of land of the
king in chief by the service of providing a palfrey for the king,
shod on its four feet at the king's forge, whenever he visited his
manor of Mansfield, and by attending him in the time of war.
Gamelbere died without heir, and his land escheated to King Henry
I. The king gave this land to Richard the son of Joceus. ' [VCH
(Notts.) 2:129-38[2]; cf. also Mon. Angl. VI(2):872, Num. I, I[1]I]

Children: Richard

1.1.1 Richard fitz Richard

of Cuckney, co. Notts.

benefactor of Welbeck abbey[1]

' Richard had a son of the like name by his first wife, and on her
death he took for a second wife Avice, a kinswoman of Earl Ferrers,
granting her as dower the two carucates of land at Cuckney. By his
second wife Richard had a son called Thomas. '[2]

re: his 2nd wife:

said to have been a kinswoman of the Earl of Derby:
' Richardus cepit aliam uxorem, consanguineam comitis de Ferrars,... '
[Mon. Angl. VI(2):872, Num. II[1]]

cf. Mon. Angl. VI(2):872-4[1]
VCH (Notts.) 2:129-38[2]

Spouse: Avice

Children: Thomas
Richard Thomas fitz Richard de Cuckney

of Cuckney, co. Notts.

' Thomas filius Richardi, filii Richardi', benefactor of Welbeck abbey

' Thomas was brought up in the king's court, and on his father's death
inherited the two carucates. Thomas is described as a most warlike man,
who followed the king (Stephen) throughout his campaigns; but when
there was peace in the kingdom, in the reign of Henry II, founded the
abbey of Welbeck.
This is the first part of the account set forth at length towards
the end of the Welbeck chartulary as to the history of the foundation
and of the founder's ancestry and progeny; but it represents a very
confused tradition as to the origin of the house, for another shorter
account, which immediately follows, makes Richard the son of Joceus
the original founder of the abbey. This latter statement is nearer
the truth, for the abbey was begun by Richard in 1153, and finished by
his son Thomas in the reign of Henry II; but, even so, the fact
remains that 'Joceus' cannot be identified in the more authentic
records of the period to which this tradition would assign him.
Nevertheless, as Thomas carried out and fulfilled his father's
intentions with definite endowments, he is generally regarded as the
founder;...' [VCH (Notts.) 2:129-38[2], cites Harl. MS. 3640,
fol. 160-1; Harl. MS. 3640, fol. 161 d, 162.; Ashm. MS. 1519,
cited in Dugdale, Mon. vi, 872.]

cf. Mon. Angl. VI(2):873, Num. III-V[1]
VCH (Notts.) 2:129-38[2]

Spouse: Emma

Children: Hugh
Isabel Hugh de Cuckney [1]
---------------------------------------- William 'Gasthith' [1]
---------------------------------------- Emma de Cuckney[1]

cf. Mon. Angl. VI(2):873, Num. VII[1]

Spouse: Gerard de Glanville
Father: Hervey de Glanville
Mother: Mabel Isabel de Cuckney

her maritagium (or inheritance) included the manor and mill of Cuckney,
co. Notts.

charter of Isabel and her husband Simon to Welbeck abbey:
' Omnibus sanctae matris ecclesiae filiis, Simon filius Symonis, et
uxor ejus Isabella, filia Thomae, filii Richardi fundatoris, salutem.
Sciatis nos dedisse et hac praesenti carta nostra confirmasse Deo et
ecclesiae sancti Jacobi de Wellebeck, et canonicis ibidem Deo
servientibus, molendinum nostrum de Kukenei, cum omni multura sua,
&c. Ita quod non faciemus, nec permittemus aliquod aliud molendinum
fieri, sive per nos, vel haeredis nostros, sive per aliquem hominum
nostrorum in toto feodo nostro de Kukenei, &c. ' [Mon.Angl. VI(2):873,
Num. VI[1]]

cf. Mon. Angl. VI(2):873, Num. VI[1]
VCH (Notts.) 2:129-38[2]

Spouse: Simon fitz Simon

Children: Agnes
Isabel, m. Walter de Riboeuf
Petronilla, m. Stephen de Fauconberg Agnes fitz Simon

heiress of Whitton and Risby, co. Lincoln[3]

'Walterus de Fawcumberge et Agnes uxor ejus', benefactors (together
with her sisters) of Welbeck abbey [Mon.Angl. VI(2):873-4, Num. VII[1]]

re: her husband:
of Rise, Withernwick, Catwick & c., co. York[3]

inherited his lands in Withernwick by 1202 [VCH Yorks. East Riding
VII:405-415, cites Curia Regis R. xiv, pp. 227–8; Yorks. Fines,
John (Sur. Soc. xciv), pp. 12–13.[4]]

cf. Mon. Angl. VI(2):873, Num. VII[1]

Spouse: Walter de Fauconberge
Death: bef 1231[4]
Father: Piers de Fauconberge (-<1202)
Mother: Beatrice

Children: Sir Piers Sir Piers de Fauconberge

of Rise and Withernwick in Holderness, co. York

Sir Peter de Fauconberg held 8 carucates at Withernwick of the Count
of Aumale by 1231, when he defended his title [VCH Yorks. East Riding
VII:405-415, cites Curia Regis R. xiv, pp. 227–8; Yorks. Fines, John
(Sur. Soc. xciv), pp. 12–13.[4]]

' William de Forz (d. 1241), count of Aumale, gave 1 carucate and 3
bovates in Elstronwick, and the tenants of the land, to (Sir) Peter
de Fauconberg on his marriage with the countess' sister Margaret
[de Montfichet]. ' [VCH Yorks., VII:65[4]]

2nd husband of Margaret de Montfichet[3]

Spouse: Margery de Montfichet
Father: Richard de Montfichet (-1203)
Mother: Milicent (->1234)

Children: Sir Walter (-1304)
Aveline Sir Walter de Fauconberge
Death: 2 Nov 1304, Rise, co. York[3]
Burial: Priory of Nunkeeling[3]
Occ: Lord Fauconberge

of Rise and Withernwick in Holderness, co. York

' Walter de Faucunberg ' , witness (together with his cousin Lord
William de Fort [...], Earl of Albemarle, Sir Simon de Ver, Sir Sayer
de Sutton, Sir Fulk the Constable, Sir Godfrey de Melsa, Sir Ralph de
Wellewyk, Sir John de Frysmarays, Robert de Scurs, William son of
Peter de la Twyer, Simon de Preston, Walter de Pykering, William
son of William the Constable and Simon his brother) to a Confirmation
in frankalmoign by William the Constable (son of Robert) to Meaux
Abbey property: all lands and tenements given to the Abbey by Robert
the Constable senr. in Tarlesthorp, including his manor of
Tarlesthorp, 'as in his charter', 1258 [A2A, East Riding of
Yorkshire Archives and Records Service: Chichester-Constable Family
[DDCC/51 - DDCC/110] , DDCC/93/1[5]- ref. to Early Yorkshire Charters
Vol III. p. 79. 1364.[6]]

' Walter de Fauconberg held in demesne 1 bovate in Riston and 4
bovates in Arnold of William de Forz, count of Aumale (d. 1260); he
was perhaps Walter de Fauconberg, later Lord Fauconberg, who held
land in Arnold as an appurtenance of his manor of Rise in 1284-5,
and had a grant of free warren in Long Riston and Arnold in 1292.'
[VCH Yorks. VII:344, Long Riston[4] ]

follower of de Montfort in the baron's rebellion - forfeited his
estates, redeemed same in 1268 for £250
summoned to Parliament from 24 June 1295 to 13 Sept 1301 by writs
directed 'Waltero de Fauconberge', whereby held to have become Lord

he and his wife had livery of her purparty of her brother's lands,
14 Dec 1272[3]

' Walterus Dns de Faucomberge ', eighty-third of the barons who
sealed the Barons' Letter to the Pope, February 1301 (in response to
the Scots letter to Boniface VIII in 1298, defying the claimed English
superiority) following the Parliament at Lincoln, 13-20 Jan 1300/1[7]

Spouse: Agnes de Brus
Death: bef 25 May 1280[3]
Father: Piers de Brus (-1240)
Mother: Hawise de Lancaster

Children: Piers (-<1304)
Walter (-1318)
Anice Piers de Fauconberge
Death: bef 1304, d.s.p., a minor[3] Walter de Fauconberge
Death: 31 Dec 1318[3],[8]
Occ: Lord Fauconberge

2nd Lord Fauconberge

Genealogics I00399027[9]

'Walterus Fauconberg', lord of Tharlthorp, co. Yorks. together with
Robert le Constable [ Kirkby's Inquest, p. 302- 'Nomina Villarum'
for Yorkshire, 9 Edw. II (1316)[10]]

Spouse: Isabel de Ros
Father: Sir Robert de Ros (-1285)
Mother: Isabel d'Aubigny (ca1234-1301)

Children: Sir Walter (-1314)
John (<1290-<1349) Joan de Fauconberge

probably had the lands at Routhmell, co. York (1/12 of a knight's fee) as her
maritagium - held by her husband of Henry de Percy, as cited[11]

Spouse: Sir John le Fleming
Death: bef 26 May 1324[11]
Father: Reiner le Fleming (<1267-<1314)
Mother: Eglantine de Horbury

Children: Thomas (->1343) Anice de Fauconberg

cf. Genealogics #I00429168[9]

Spouse: Nicholas Engaine
Death: 1322
Father: Sir John Engaine (-1296)
Mother: Joan de Greinville (->1305)

Children: Sir John (-1357) Sir John Engaine
Death: 16 Feb 1357

Lord Engaine

cf. Genealogics #I00429163[9]

Spouse: Joan Peverel

Children: Elizabeth (-ca1387)
Thomas Engaine, Lord Engaine(-1367) Aveline de Fauconberge

' Evelyn', wife of Giles, gave a bovate of land in Elstronwick, co.
Yorks. to Nunkeeling priory[17]

re: her identification, Chris Phillips wrote:
' A follow-up on the later fate of the 11 bovates given in marriage to
Peter de Fauconberge with Margaret.
Elstronwick is covered in the Victoria County History account of the
parish of Humbleton, which is available on the "British History
Online" website:
I found the account a bit confusing, but it seems to me that the 11
bovates in Elstronwick given to Peter and Margaret "after 1214" are
probably to be connected with the carucate and a half (which would be
12 bovates) held there by Giles of Goxhill in the mid 13th century,
and the bovate there given to Nunkeeling priory by Evelyn wife of
Giles of [?Goxhill] (Sir Peter de Fauconberg being mentioned in the
damaged record of the transaction).
If so, it could be that Evelyn was a daughter (or otherwise a
descendant) of Peter and Margaret - particularly if Evelyn is the
same name as Aveline (which I think it is), so that she could have
been named after Margaret's sister (and her own aunt?).'[17]

re: her husband:

of Goxhill, co. Lincoln

had charter for a market and fair at Goxhill, co. Lincs. dated 17 Jun
1258, ' by K Hen III to Giles de Gousell (CChR, 1257–1300, p. 12). To
be held at the manor.'[18]

sheriff of Lincoln 23 Nov 1267
castle of York committed to his custody 8 Feb 1267/68 (CP Vol VI
{Goxhill}, p. 42n)[3]

indenture of Oct. 1275 [16 kal. Nov. 3 Edw. I] between William de Wyton,
of Hornsea, merchant who 'in consideration of 70 marks
sterling...releases and quitclaims to Robert Hildyard, and Joan, his
wife, his right in the manor of Riston; attested by Sir John de Meaux,
Sir Willm. St. Quintin, John de Bilton, and Simon de Wyttic, knt.'
[Poulson I:342, cites Leiger Book, Winsted, p. 5[19] ]

' The manor of Little Cowden (in Mappleton in Holderness) was held in
demesne by Giles of Goxhill in the mid 13th century, and by Peter of
Goxhill in 1280. ' [VCH Yorks. East Riding VII:306-321, cites Kirkby's
Inquest, 371; Feud. Aids, vi. 40; Cal. Inq. p.m. iv, p. 355; Poulson,
Holderness, i. 369. Hildyard's lordship was challenged by the Crown c.
1285: Abbrev. Plac. (Rec. Com.), 209.[4]]

~ held of the honour of Aumale by Scures, then Hildyard[4]

' Giles appears under Seaton, in Sigglesthorne, in the apparently
faulty list of fees of the mid 13th century in Kirkby's Inquest, 373.'
[VCH East Riding, VII, Note 55[4]]

Spouse: Sir Giles de Goushill
Death: aft 8 Feb 1267[3]
Father: NN de Goushill

Children: Sir Piers (-<1286) Sir Piers de Goushill
Death: bef 1 Jul 1286[3]

of Goxhill, co. Lincs
received manor of Toppesfield, Essex in free marriage from Ralph de
summoned to attend the King at Shrewsbury, 28 June 1283[20],[3]

'Peter de Gousle', held a market and fair at Market Stainton, co.
'mercatum, held by Peter de Gousle, Robert de Vernur,
Dunc’ de Cotes (QW, p. 410).'[18]

held the manor of Little Cowden in Holderness of the honour of Aumale,
1280 [VCH Yorks. East Riding VII:306-321[4]]

Spouse: Ela de Camoys
Father: Sir Ralph de Camoys (<1215-<1276)

Children: Ralph (ca1274-<1294) Ralph de Goushill
Birth: ca 1274[3]
Death: bef 30 Aug 1294[3]
Occ: baron of Goxhill

of Goxhill, co. Lincoln and Camoys Manor in Toppesfield, Essex[8]

Genealogics I00042726[9]

IPM 26 Nov 1294, recorded 'the market [at Market Stainton, co. Lincs.]
was held by Ralph de Goushull, lately deceased, from William de Mortuo
Mari (CIPM, iii, no. 209).'[18]

held the manor of Little Cowden in Holderness of the honour of Aumale
[VCH Yorks. East Riding VII:306-321[4]]

Spouse: Hawise FitzWarin[20]
Death: aft 21 Feb 1295[21]
Father: Sir Fulk FitzWarin (1251-1315)
Mother: Margaret de la Pole (-1336)

Children: Margaret (1294-1349) Margaret de Goushill*
Birth: 12 May 1294, Whittington, co. Salop[3]
Death: 29 Jul 1349[3]

heiress of Goxhill, co. Lincoln

her inheritance also included the manor of Little Cowden in Holderness
of the honour of Aumale, 1280 [VCH Yorks. East Riding VII:306-321[4]]

she m. 1stly Philip le Despenser,
2ndly John de Ros (d. 1339)[20]

Spouse: Philip Le Despenser
Death: 24 Sep 1313[8]
Father: Sir Hugh le Despenser (1260-1326)
Mother: Isabel de Beauchamp (-<1306)

Children: Sir Philip le Despenser (1313-1349)

1. Sir William Dugdale, "Monasticon Anglicanum," London: Harding &
Lepard; and Longman Rees... Green, 1830.
2. "A History of the County of Nottingham," 1907, Volume 2 (1910),
pp. 129-38: 'House of Premonstratensian canons: The abbey of
Welbeck',, URL
3. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 -
[microprint, 1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England
Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
4. G. H. R. Kent, ed., "A History of the County of York, East Riding,"
Oxford: published for the Institute of Historical Research, Oxford
Univ. Press, 2002, Vol. VII, online available, courtesy British
History Online, URL:
5. "Access to Archives,"
6. William Farrer, Hon.D.Litt., Editor, "Early Yorkshire Charters,"
Ballantyne, Hanson & Co., Edinburgh, 1915-1916, Vol. II (1915)
Vol. III (1916), Vol. XII [the family of Constable of Flamborough],
courtesy Rosie Bevan, Vol. V [Manfield fee, pp. 53-58 ], courtesy
Rosie Bevan, <Re: Avice de Tanfield, wife of Robert Marmion>, SGM,
26 Feb 2002.
7. Brian Timms, "The Barons' Letter in reply to the Pope, February
1301,", Seven
earls and sixty five barons sealed the letter, which is now in the
Public Record Office.
8. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215,"
Baltimore: Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr & David
9. "Genealogics," website by Leo van de Pas,, cites Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A.
Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, [ES], and
other sources, ES VII 81, for Arnoul III, comte de Guines.
10. John de Kirkby, "The survey of the county of York taken by John de
Kirkby, commonly called Kirkby's Inquest," also inquisitions of
knights' fees, the Nomina villarum for Yorkshire, and an appendix
of illustrative documents, Durham: Pub. for the Society by Andrews
and Co., 1867.
11. Rev. Charles Moor, D.D., F.S.A., "Knights of Edward I," Pubs. of
the Harleian Society, 1929-1930, 3 Vols. (Vols. 80-83 in series).
12. "Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire," compiled by Joseph
Foster, London: W. Wilfred Head, 1874 (2 Vols.).
13. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and
Medieval Families," Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company,
14. Mrs. L Chaworth Musters, "Chaworth Family," Transactions of the
Thoroton Society, 7 (1903), text provided by A. P. Nicholson,
Nottinghamshire History and Archaeology, URL
15. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century
Colonists," Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society,
1999, (2nd edition, 1999).
16. Philip Riden, Consultant Editor, "Victoria County History of
Derbyshire," *draft version, Ault Hucknall,
17. Chris Phillips, "Re: Margaret de Munfitchet, wife of Peter de
Fauconberge," 20 September 2004, email, cites Victoria County History
account of the parish of Humbleton.
18. "Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516,"
19. George Poulson, Esq., "The History and Antiquities of the Seigniory
of Holderness," Hull: Thomas Topping, and W. Pickering, 1840
(Vol I) 1841 (Vol II), pp. 197-198, pedigree of Hilton of Swine.
20. Leo van de Pas, "Robert Goushill," Aug 15, 1999,
21. William Brown, B.A., ed., "Yorkshire Inquisitions," The Yorkshire
Archaeological Society, Record Series), various dates:, Vol. I
(Record series vol. XII) - 1892, Vol. II(Record series vol. XXIII)
- 1898, Vol. III (Record series vol. XXXI) - 1902, Vol. IV (Record
series vol. XXXVII) - 1906.

* John P. Ravilious

Oct 3, 2005, 12:33:07 PM10/3/05

Fascinating - well done. Many thanks for posting this.

Kind regards


Oct 3, 2005, 9:13:11 PM10/3/05
In a message dated 10/3/05 9:10:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

<< Spouse: Agnes de Brus
Death: bef 25 May 1280[3]
Father: Piers de Brus (-1240)
Mother: Hawise de Lancaster

Children: Piers (-<1304)
Walter (-1318)
Anice Piers de Fauconberge
Death: bef 1304, d.s.p., a minor[3] >>

If Agnes died bef 25 May 1280 then in order for Piers to die "as a minor" he
would have had to die bef 25 May 1301
Correct? Was twenty-one years considered suitable proof of majority ?

John P. Ravilious

Oct 3, 2005, 11:30:10 PM10/3/05
Dear Will,

The 'before 1304' date I cite relates to specific evidence that
she was dead no later than 1303: her actual death date is unknown.



Oct 4, 2005, 12:40:46 AM10/4/05

In a message dated 10/3/2005 8:43:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

Dear Will,



John you misread my message.
I was not asking about Agnes death, but rather I was stating that *since*
she died bef 25 May 1280 then her son Piers had to be born by that date as well.

Because of that his own death "bef 1304" "as a minor" can be shortened to
"bef 25 May 1301" since after that date, he would no longer be a minor.

Correct me if I'm off here.


0 new messages