Swynnerton-De Peshall
a_swin...@my-deja.com
(or 'Unknown') FitzAlan in the various geneologies of the Swynnerton
and De Peshall families on the web - they all seem to go back to Paul
McBride and/or the IGI as far as I can see, and all have her married to
John de Lumley de Peshall, and as the mother of William de Peshall and
Robert de Peshall, aka Robert de Swynnerton. Now in both the 1886
Bridgman History of the Swynnerton family and the 1915 Horace Parshall
history of the Parshall (ie Peshall/Pearsall etc) family, Robert de
Swynnerton is put as the son of Robert FitzAlan, grandson of the
original Aslen (or Alan, Aelem etc etc), and no mention is made of this
mysterious 'Miss FitzAlan', who seems to be put as a missing generation
between the two, ie mother of one and daughter of the other. Of course
both books have been known to be vague and inaccurate at times, but
they are (so far) the accepted family histories, and at no point is it
ever stated that William de Peshall and Robert de Swynnerton are
brothers, as they are made out to be in all of the genealogies on the
net. So my question is, where is the original source for this
connection? McBride seems to rely on the Vernon Watney's 1928 'Wallop
Family History' for later generations, so I guess it could come from
this book - does anyone know if this is the case, and if so, if there
are copies of it out there?
I am also curious to know if there are any other sources, other than
Parshall's book, that can confirm the Corbeil-de Peshall descent.
Thanks in anticipation...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mardi Carter
don't have the FHC film #, but that should be easily obtained from their
catalog.
mbc
Kay Allen AG
a_swin...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> I'm trying to hunt down the source for the reference to 'Miss
> (or 'Unknown') FitzAlan in the various geneologies of the Swynnerton
> and De Peshall families on the web - they all seem to go back to Paul
> McBride and/or the IGI as far as I can see, and all have her married to
> John de Lumley de Peshall, and as the mother of William de Peshall and
> Robert de Peshall, aka Robert de Swynnerton.
This is a crock.
Now in both the 1886
> Bridgman History of the Swynnerton family and the 1915 Horace Parshall
> history of the Parshall (ie Peshall/Pearsall etc) family,
Canon Bridgeman is acceptable. The Parshall Family is an interesting
piece of creative fictional genealogy. And as such, is not the accepted
source for either the Peshall or Swinnerton branches of the family.
Robert de
> Swynnerton is put as the son of Robert FitzAlan, grandson of the
> original Aslen (or Alan, Aelem etc etc), and no mention is made of this
> mysterious 'Miss FitzAlan', who seems to be put as a missing generation
> between the two, ie mother of one and daughter of the other. Of course
> both books have been known to be vague and inaccurate at times, but
> they are (so far) the accepted family histories, and at no point is it
> ever stated that William de Peshall and Robert de Swynnerton are
> brothers, as they are made out to be in all of the genealogies on the
> net. So my question is, where is the original source for this
> connection? McBride seems to rely on the Vernon Watney's 1928 'Wallop
> Family History' for later generations, so I guess it could come from
> this book - does anyone know if this is the case, and if so, if there
> are copies of it out there?
The Wallop Family has been filmed. It is not my first choice for a
citation, nor my second, third, etc.
>
> I am also curious to know if there are any other sources, other than
> Parshall's book, that can confirm the Corbeil-de Peshall descent.
>
> Thanks in anticipation...
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
1. Stephen de Uselwall or de Aspley and Richard de Peshall, brothers.
2. Sir John Swinnerton of Little Sugnall, Staffs.; d. 1254.
3. Eleanor Peshall, 1st wife.
4. John Swinnerton og Little Sugnall; d.c. 1226.
5. Petronel/Pernel Doreslowe.
6. Stephen Peshall.
8. Robert FitzAelen of Swinnerton, Staffs.
16. Aelen.
Coll. Hist Staffs. [Walter Salt Soc.] 1914: 45, 50.
_______________________________III N.S.: 75-96. Rev, C. Swynnerton.
_______________________________VII< Pt. II."History of the Swinnertons"
This is the proper genealogy as I know it. As far as I know a Corbeil
connection is fiction.
Kay Allen AG
Séimí mac Liam
Kay Allen AG wrote in message <38449B...@pacbell.net>...
>Comments interspersed.
>
>
>
>1. Stephen de Uselwall or de Aspley and Richard de Peshall, brothers.
>2. Sir John Swinnerton of Little Sugnall, Staffs.; d. 1254.
>3. Eleanor Peshall, 1st wife.
>4. John Swinnerton og Little Sugnall; d.c. 1226.
>5. Petronel/Pernel Doreslowe.
>6. Stephen Peshall.
>8. Robert FitzAelen of Swinnerton, Staffs.
>16. Aelen.
>
Kay,
Does this line come down to the following:
Ancestors of Thomas Pearsall
Generation No. 1
1. Thomas Pearsall, born Abt. 1586 in Staffordshire County, England; died in
Virginia. He was the son of 2. Edmund Pershall and 3. Maria Bathurst. He
married (1) Mary Brent. She was the daughter of William Brent.
Child of Thomas Pearsall and Mary Brent is:
i. Nicholas Pearsall (Parsell), born Abt. 1619 in Queens County, NY; died
March 10, 1688/89 in Queens County, NY; married Mary Van Damn in Queens
County, NY.
Generation No. 2
2. Edmund Pershall, born in London, Middlesex, England; died in London,
Middlesex, England. He married 3. Maria Bathurst.
3. Maria Bathurst, born Abt. 1568 in London, Middlesex, England; died in
England.
Child of Edmund Pershall and Maria Bathurst is:
1 i. Thomas Pearsall, born Abt. 1586 in Staffordshire County, England; died
in Virginia; married Mary Brent.
And if so, can you point me to a source for the intervening generations?
Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
J. Sardina
> 2. Sir John Swinnerton of Little Sugnall, Staffs.; d. 1254.
> 3. Eleanor Peshall, 1st wife.
> 4. John Swinnerton og Little Sugnall; d.c. 1226.
> 5. Petronel/Pernel Doreslowe.
> 6. Stephen Peshall.
> 8. Robert FitzAelen of Swinnerton, Staffs.
> 16. Aelen.
> _______________________________III N.S.: 75-96. Rev, C. Swynnerton.
> _______________________________VII< Pt. II."History of the Swinnertons"
> This is the proper genealogy as I know it. As far as I know a Corbeil
> connection is fiction.
> Kay Allen AG
Coming back to the book mentioned in the thread, several years ago,
THE
PARSHALL FAMILY
A. p. 870-191 ^ A COLLECTION OF HISTORICAL RECORDS AND NOTES TO ACCOMPANY THE PARSHALL PEDIGREE
BY - HORACE FIELD PARSHALL, D.S
I see it is not regarded as trustworthy for the several generations of the Swynnerton or Peshale families, but how accurate are certain statements for the people living in the 14th century?
I am trying to followup on a pair in particular.
On page 71, the book states
Roger de Peshale, the fourth son of Adam, married Joan, daughter and heiress of John de Knightley, and had a daughter Joan Peshale, who married William Lee, a lawyer of Birmingham. On the death of this William Lee, Joan,
his wife, left her property and arms to a Richard Peshall, her cousin, as related in Chapter VL Roger de Peshale was
killed in 1354, and in the Calendar of Patent Rolls of Edward II, 1354, we find that 'John Bougy is pardoned for helping Thomas de Crowebarwe to kill Roger de Peshale of Stafford.'
on page 105 further information is provided about this Richard Peshall
Richard Peshall, therefore, came into possession of the Manor of Hopton, and is referred to in an Inquisition of Knights taken in 1428 as ' Richardus Peshall of Hopton.'He was knighted, and in 1436 received the title and arms of Knightley by special grant from his cousin, Joan, daughter of Roger de Peshall by Joan de Knightley.
on page 106, it mentions that
Richard's cousin Joan had married one William Lee of Boninghall, Salop, a lawyer, and after the death of her husband in 1438 she settled the manor of Little Wyrley as well as that of Knightley upon Richard.
According to the Huntebach MS. at Wrottesley, ' the Manor of Little Wyrley was settled in 1438 upon Joan Lee
for life, and after her decease to Richard Peshall, the son of Humphrey Peshall, and the heirs of his body, and for want
of such issue to Richard Peshall, the son of Sir Thomas Peshall, Kt.'
Does anybody know what were the actual arms being granted? a combination of Peshall and Knightley? or Peshall and Lee?
and what is this family Lee of Boninghall? I have been able to find no connection between 'my' Hicsons and the Lee or Peshall.
I recently became aware of a chart done in 1558 by the King of Arms that includes a coat for an unidentified family, possibly Hicson, from Staffordshire or Lancashire, and arms include two quarters that appears to represent Lee and another that is very similar to Peshall, except that in the red canton, instead of a wolf head, there appears to be lion head, crowned or.
The red canton with the lion head is shown in the same book, on page 90 for a line of Peshall at Weston-upon-Lizard.
Thanks
J. Sardina