Walter Deincourt of Blankney, co. Lincoln: a Royal Kinsman
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
There is a reference in Barlow's William Rufus [1], pp. 133-4 that states,
' An epitaph once in Lincoln cathedral records
that William of Aincourt, son of Walter (I),
Domesday lord of Blankney, south-east of the
city, a kinsman both of Bishop Remigius who
built the church and of the king, had died
while he was being brought up (aleretur) in
William's court.... '
Walter D'Eyncourt [or D'Aincourt]'s holdings recorded in Domesday Book
(1086) include Blankney, co. Lincs., Wooburn, co. Bucks., Brampton, Elmton,
Holmesfield, Morton, North Wingfield, Ogston, Owlcotes, Padfield, Pilsley,
Stoney, Houghton, Wadshelf, Wessington, and Williamthorpe in co. Derby. His
descendants include the Lords Deincourt, and many besides.
Bishop Remigius was evidently a Norman cleric at Fecamp, before his
translation at or after the Conquest to Dorchester, then to Lincoln.
Should anyone have information as to the relationship between either or
both of these men and William II ['Rufus'] of England, it would be greatly
and widely appreciated.
Good luck, and good hunting.
John *
NOTES
[1] Frank Barlow, William Rufus (Berkeley: Univ.
of California Press, 1983)
* John P. Ravilious
Cristopher Nash
> There is a reference in Barlow's William Rufus [1], pp. 133-4 that states,
>
> ' An epitaph once in Lincoln cathedral records
> that William of Aincourt, son of Walter (I),
> Domesday lord of Blankney, south-east of the
> city, a kinsman both of Bishop Remigius who
> built the church and of the king, had died
> while he was being brought up (aleretur) in
> William's court.... '
>
> Walter D'Eyncourt [or D'Aincourt]'s holdings recorded in Domesday Book
>(1086) include Blankney, co. Lincs., Wooburn, co. Bucks., Brampton, Elmton,
>Holmesfield, Morton, North Wingfield, Ogston, Owlcotes, Padfield, Pilsley,
>Stoney, Houghton, Wadshelf, Wessington, and Williamthorpe in co. Derby. His
>descendants include the Lords Deincourt, and many besides.
>
> Bishop Remigius was evidently a Norman cleric at Fecamp, before his
>translation at or after the Conquest to Dorchester, then to Lincoln.
>
> Should anyone have information as to the relationship between either or
>both of these men and William II ['Rufus'] of England, it would be greatly
>and widely appreciated.
>
>NOTES
>
> [1] Frank Barlow, William Rufus (Berkeley: Univ.
> of California Press, 1983)
Intriguing. Obviously CP IV (Deincourt), 118-22, offers nothing
along these lines, but I note that DD 448 says that Walter and descs
are discussed in Foulds, Cart. Thurgarton, pp. xl-cxx. Worth a look?
Presumably, owing to the paraphrase's ambiguity as to the subject of
'kinsman', William's kinship might be via Walter's - unknown? - wife.
(I personally think Barlow's the best modern narrator of the period
but he was clearly nodding like Homer here - note his confusion of
tenses!) Our alereted William no doubt wouldn't be an ancestor of
the subsequent Deincourts as his father was, but that's by-the-bye
and the question's a cool one.
Ooops -- some of my speculations above should be modified (tho I'm
not sure the ambiguity doesn't persist). Barlow's source, Round's
_English_Feudalism_, p. 32 [footnote 1], reads:
"This aspect of the Curia Regis, to which little attention is
generally paid, is well illustrated by the curious epitaph of William
son of Walter de Aincourt, formerly preserved in Lincoln Cathedral,
and printed in facsimile by Dugdale in his _Baronage_of_England_ and
by Hearne in his edition of _Sprott's_Chronicle: 'Hic iacet
Wi[llelmus] filius Walteri Aiencuriensis consanguinei Remigii
episcopi Lincoliensis qui hanc ecclesiam fecit. Prefatus Willelmus
regia styrpe progenitus dum in curia regis Willelmi filii magni regis
Willelmi qui Angliam conquisivit aleretur iii [ka]l' Novemb' obiit.'
The description of William de Aincurt as born of royal stock, a fact
otherwise unknown, suggests that an unrecorded family relationship
may not infrequently have connected individual barons with the
Conqueror."
Cris
--
Cristopher Nash
>I note that DD 448 says<.
This should read
>I note that DP 448 says< !
Cris
--
The...@aol.com
Dear Cris,
Thanks for that - a fortuitous find born of a perplexing paragraph. I had no knowledge of this William d'Ayncourt/Deincourt until now, let alone that he was such a gentle aleretur.
It sounds like the relationships to Bishop Remigius and the 'royal cousin' may be distinct - as you surmise, perhaps the latter through William d'Ayncourt's mother. This will hopefully be as instructive as it should be interesting to resolve (supposing that we can).
Good luck, and good hunting to all.
John *
* John P. Ravilious
Rosie Bevan
MichaelAnne Guido, Mardi Carter and I looked at this puzzle a while ago
without reaching any conclusions.
Fowlds [The Thurgarten Cartulary, p lv - lvi], discusses what is known
about Matilda wife of Walter d'Aincourt. From EYC I p.273 amongst a
confirmation charter of Henry II of gifts to St Mary's York Matilda granted
land called Northunda next to Burton Coggles (Lincs.), one carucate in Corby
with the wood belonging to it,, the tithes of Gamesthorp and Hervingthorpe,
the tithes of her demesne in Lynn and Tudesham and elsewhere. Burton Coggles
and Corby Glen were evidently dower from the Deincourt barony. Farrer
identified the other holdings as Abbington, Cambs. ; Tuddenham, Suffolk ;
Lyng, South Pickenham and Honingham Thorpe, Norfolk which were demesne of
Count Alan of Brittany, Appleby, Lincs., was held by William Peverel of
Dover but it had esceated before his death and was in the king's hands at
the time of the Lindey Survey in 1115. Gainsthorpe (Gamelsthorpe) was held
partly by Ivo de Taillebois and partly by Osbern de Arches.
Fowlds suggests that Matilda may have been daughter of William the
Conqueror. In 1086 Matilda's chamberlain held land in Hampshire in Hatch
Warren as "Goisfridus camerarius filae regis" which he held de rege W. pro
servitio quod fecit Matidae ejus filiae". The existence of Matilda is shown
by her inclusion in an encyclic letter of the nuns of St trinity, Caen along
with her mother Matilda and sisters Adelaide and Constance.
Walter first baron Daincourt died sometime between 1088-1103 and had three
sons, William, Ralph (second baron) and Walter.
The date of William's death is estimated by Fowlds to be after the death of
Remigius in May 1092 and 1103 when his brother Ralph was evidently holding
the barony of Deyncourt. However as William Rufus died in 1100 and as
William was being brought up in his court when he died, this would narrow it
down further to 1092-1100.
This is on the assumption that William was Walter's son and heir, but he
does not consider the possibility that William may have been a younger son
by Walter's (well connected?) subsequent wife.
If the D'Aincourt connection was via the house of Brittany as perhaps
suggested by Matilda's holdings (which incidentally did not pass to the
Deincourts) the blood relationship to the royal house may be explained by
descent from Geoffrey, Duke of Brittany and Hawise da. of Richard I of
Normandy. As I understand it Ivo Taillebois' (d.c 1093) daughter Beatrice
(d. 1112) was the wife of Ribald d.1121, illegitimate brother of Count Alan.
[K-R, DP p.283]. Ribaud was a tenant of the Count Alan in Middleham,
Yorkshire and Lincolnshire in 1086.[K-R DP, 314].
Could Matilda have been a daughter of Ribaud and Beatrice?
Cheers
Rosie
The...@aol.com
Dear Rosie, Cris, et al.,
A possible solution presents itself, which will of course entail a little
(!) examination to validate.
First, it appears that Matilda, wife of Walter d'Aincourt, is most likely
not a daughter of Ivo Taillebois' daughter Beatrice (by Ribaud or otherwise).
Matilda's son William died between say 1092 and 1100, and evidently was a
young adult at that time: it would be something of a stretch for him to have
attained that 'stage' when his alleged great-grandfather was still alive, or
had only recently died (1093). Although, of course, not impossible....
That being said, regarding the manors and lands noted in the Thurgarton
cartulary as being held by Matilda (and given, at least in part, to St.
Mary's York), I wonder how solid some identifications are. For example,
'Gamesthorp' may be Ganthorpe or Gamthorpe, co. Lincs.; 'Hervingthorpe', not
an easy read, may be Hawthorpe, co. Lincs. - probably not Honingham Thorpe in
Norfolk, which would break a possible link to Count Alan of Brittany.
The one property which seems to help here is 'Northunda next to Burton
Coggles (Lincs.)' . The best candidate here is Norton, aka Norton Disney.
If Matilda gave land to St. Mary's in Norton Disney, the remainder evidently
stayed in the hands of Judith, daughter of Lambert of Lens and Adelaide
(sister of William the Conqueror), and was inherited by Judith's descendants.
I would suggest that Matilda was a sister, probably full (not half), of
Judith. As a daughter of Adelaide of Normandy, she would likewise be a niece
of the Conqueror. Her name, possible given in honour of the Conqueror's
wife, most likely would have been drawn from her paternal grandmother,
Matilda of Louvain.
As to the inheritance of Matilda's lands by someone other than her
Deincourt descendants, I find one website (which I have not researched
deeply) that holds Matilda to have been first married to Ralph fitz Hubert,
and to have had a son by that marriage; if true, then her lands would have
passed to that family (less gifts, maritagia & c.). I have appended part of
the material from that site for reference below; it does make reference to
citations from the Thurgarton cartulary, so there may be some benefit here.
[ The website in question says 'Ralph' instead of Walter d'Aincourt when
identifying the 2nd husband of Matilda, which is one weakness to be noted. ]
Bishop Remigius and his Deincourt relationship remains to be solved;
meanwhile, how does this suggestion sound to you (better yet, how does this
stack up vs. Thurgarton, Sanders & c.) ?
Cheers,
John *
__________________
Concerning primarily Palterton and Scarcliffe, co. Derby :
' At the time of the Domesday Survey, the manors of Palterton and
Scarcliffe, which had belonged to Levenot, a descendant of Wulfric Spott,
were held by Raynoward under Ralph Fitzhubert, ancestor of the de
Frechvilles.
According to the Domesday Survey, Palterton and Scarcliffe manors were
granted to Ralph Fitzhubert De Rye, who came over with the Conqueror......
' Ralph Fitzhubert De Rye's daughter , first married Ralf son of Eno De
Tattershall. Hubert, the son of this marriage was an ancestor of the
Frechville family who possessed the manors for 300 years or more. This was
during the twelfth century.
Her second marriage was to RALF de AINCOURT, founder of THURGATON PRIORY, and
son of WALTER de AINCOURT, who came over with the CONQUEROR. There were at
least four sons of this marriage, two of whom were ordained priests and in
charge of the churches in PALTERTON and SCARCLIFFE.
These churches were built by RALF de AINCOURT and his wife MATILDA, thus
became patrons and held the advowson's, whence, it was to be expected that
their sons would be appointed to these churches. RALF and MATILDA were
generous benefactors to THURGATON PRIORY and RUFFORD ABBEY.
MATILDA built a Church in SCARCLIFFE and a chantry chapel in PALTERTON, (of
which there remains no trace) during the middle of the twelfth century.
This chantry chapel at PALTERTON is described in the Cartulary of the Abbey
of ST. MARY, DARLEY, as the Church of ST. GILES - ECLLESIA SANCTI EGIDDI DE
SCARDECLIF.
A chantry is "an endowment for priest(s) to sing masses for founder's soul:
priests, chapel, alter so endowed". (Concise Oxford Dictionary).
According to THURGATON PRIORY Cartulary, RALF de AINCOURT and his wife
MATILDA, sponsor for the soul of RALF, son of ENDO (her late husband), and
HUBERT, his son, granted a portion of the waste of SCARCLIFFE from Ulfnesdale
to Stonegate by the old way to Elmton, and by the way of Stonegate to
Lowcroft.
Witnesses to this charter include WILLIAM, priest of Bolsover, ROBERT de
AINCOURT, priest of SCARCLIFFE, ROBERT, priest of Elmton, and GERVASE,
priest, his brother, ALURED, priest of Sutton Scarsdale, among others.
In another grant, MATILDA for the health of her soul and for ROBERT, her son
and for the soul of RALF, her lord, gave a certain portion of her land in the
territory of SCARCLIFFE lying in the ancient road to Elmton to the Ulfnesdale
into Stonegate.
Amongst the witnesses to this document are PETER, priest of SCARCLIFFE and
ROBERT, his brother, STEPHEN, priest of Shirebrook.
HUBERT succeeded to the estates and confirmed grants made by his mother,
MATILDA, including that which WILLIAM, son of GREGORY, held in SCARCLIFFE,
that is, the land which lay between the course of the mill and the assart of
WILLIAM de CRICH and other lands in the culture of Cowdale.
1166. HUBERT fitz RALF [son of RALF], inherited at least thirty manors; he
married twice and appears to have no issue with his second wife, SARA.
1175. JULIANA, his daughter by EDELINE, his first wife, married ANKER de
FRECHVILLE and resided at Crich.
Barbara Watkins
The following is from the Thurgarton Cartulary:
"From the evidence of the cartulary of St. Mary's, York
(Benedictine), Walter 1st baron married a certain Matilda. . . .
Matilda, his wife, granted the land called Northunda next to Burton
Coggles (Lincs.), one carucate in Corby with the wood belonging to it,
the tithes of Gamesthorp and Hervingthorpe, the tithes of her demesne
in Lynn and Tudesham and elsewhere. . . [Matilda's] holdings were
identified by Farrer as Abbington (Cambs.), Tuddenham (Suffolk), Lyng,
South Pickenham and Honingham Thorpe (Norfolk) which, in 1086, were
demesne of Count Alan of Brittany. . . . Who Matilda was and her
parentage is very unclear. An inscription found near the west door of
Lincoln cathedral in 1670 refers to William Deyncourt son of Walter
1st baron as of royal descent. Since Walter is referred to on the
same inscription as a kinsman of Remigius, William's royal ancestry
possibly came through his mother. Matilda was possibly a daughter of
King William I. Her chamberlain held land in Hampshire in Hatch
Warren (Basingstoke Hundred); Goisfridus camerarius filiae regis which
he held de rege W. pro servitio quod fecit Matildae ejus filiae. No
chronicler mentions Matilda and Professor Douglas was moved to comment
that it would have been tempting to doubt her existence or even her
legitimacy were it not for the fact that she appears in an encyclic
letter of the nuns of Holy Trinity, Caen, along with her mother,
Matilda, and her sisters Adelaide and Constance. It is possible that
Walter married an unknown Anglo-Saxon princess since William I
stressed his connections with Edward the Confessor, but the
inscription could be interpreted as casting some doubt on this
possibility as it goes on to state that William Deyncourt was educated
and raised in the court of King William II Rufus, an arrangement that
might, perhaps, suit a closer blood-relative than the son of an
Anglo-Saxon princess. As the evidence is far from satisfactory,
Matilda's parentage must remain hypothetical."
Hope this helps. Maybe someone wants to track down all those land
holdings.
Barbara Watkins
Rosie Bevan
Just a few comments.
We don't know that William was a young adult when he died. All we know is
that he was being educated at court which basically means he was over the
age of seven when young boys were sent to the lord's court for training etc.
I don't think the chronology of him dying at the same age as his great
grandfather is too difficult.
Secondly the website you drew information from
http://www.ronstan.supanet.com/early.htm
was referring to a different Matilda. This Matilda was married first to
Ralph fitz Odo, lord of Crich (Derbys.) and secondly to Ralph, second baron
Deincourt, not Walter his father. This marriage is well known and supported
by charters of Thurgarten priory which they founded together. It is also
mentioned in K-R, DD p.930.
Looking at the Henry II's confirmation charter of 1156/57, Farrer's
identification of the placenames looks sound. I should have included it in
my previous post to clarify the information so here is the relevant passage
which is found amongst a long list of grants to St Mary's York.
"Matildis uxor ejus i carucatam terre que fuit Brictive in Corebi et silvam
que pertinet ad eandem terram. Decimam de dominio de Abingtuna et de Lins et
de Tudenham et decimam Ribaldi de Pychenham et altera Lins et decimam Hervi
de Thorp, decimam Normanni de Flittaburn, decimam Gerardi in Appelbi et
Gainestorp et terram que vocatur Northwda juxta Britonam in Lincoln scira"
[EYC v.1 p.275]
Translation:
"Matilda his [Walter's] wife one carucate of land which was of Brictive in
Coreby [Lincs. - D'Aincourt held of the Bishop of Lincoln] and the wood
pertaining to that land. Tithes of the demesne of Abington, [Cambs. Count
Alan held land here] and of Lyng and of Tuddenham [Suffolk- Count Alan] and
the tithes of Ribald of Pickenham [South Pickenham, Norfolk - Count Alan],
Lyng [Norfolk - Count Alan] and the tithes of Hervey of Honingham Thorp
[Norfolk- Count Alan], the tithes of Norman of Flixborough [Lincs. - Norman
d'Arcy], the tithes of Gerard in Appleby [Lincs.- and Gainesthorpe
[Lincs. - Ivo de Taillebois] and land called Northwood next to Burton in
Lincolnshire."
The latter identification of Northwood and Burton Coggles is Fowlds' as
Farrer was unable to identify it. However it seems to me that it could also
refer to Burton near Lincoln which was held by the Bishop of Lincoln.
Norton Disney is some 21 miles away from Burton Coggles and 10 miles from
Burton near Lincoln, so is improbable.
There can be no doubt that the main holdings are of Count Alan - and Ribald
is actually mentioned in reference to Pickenham. It seems to me that the
case for Matilda's relationship with the house of Brittany is very strong.
Also interesting is the D'Ayncourt holding (and possibly two) of the bishop
of Lincoln. A gift by Remigius perhaps?
Cheers
Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: <The...@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Walter Deincourt of Blankney, co. Lincoln: a Royal Kinsman
Chris Phillips
John P. Ravilious wrote:
> There is a reference in Barlow's William Rufus [1], pp. 133-4 that
states,
>
> ' An epitaph once in Lincoln cathedral records
> that William of Aincourt, son of Walter (I),
> Domesday lord of Blankney, south-east of the
> city, a kinsman both of Bishop Remigius who
> built the church and of the king, had died
> while he was being brought up (aleretur) in
> William's court.... '
>
> Walter D'Eyncourt [or D'Aincourt]'s holdings recorded in Domesday Book
> (1086) include Blankney, co. Lincs., Wooburn, co. Bucks., Brampton,
Elmton,
> Holmesfield, Morton, North Wingfield, Ogston, Owlcotes, Padfield, Pilsley,
> Stoney, Houghton, Wadshelf, Wessington, and Williamthorpe in co. Derby.
His
> descendants include the Lords Deincourt, and many besides.
Thanks to you, Cris, Rosie and Barbara for the interesting discussion of
this.
Sorry if this has already been said and I've missed it, but on the Remigius
angle of this, Keats-Rohan (Domesday People, p. 357) says "Apparently a
relative of William I; on his life and influential career see D. Bates,
Remigius of Lincoln (Lincoln, 1995). [Le Neve, Fasti Ecclesiae Anglicanae]
iii, 1, [English Episcopal Acta] i, xxxi-ii."
The comment sounds as though it may be a deduction from the common
relationship with William d'Aincourt (in which case it's something of a
leap). But in any case, the Bates reference may well contain an up-to-date
discussion of the question and/or whatever other clues there may be to
Remigius's parentage.
Chris Phillips
The...@aol.com
Dear Rosie,
' Northwda ' , and not ' Northunda ' [from earlier post] ?
Tentatively, "Drat !"
Thanks for all that added detail, and analysis. With the
identifications given by you/Farrer in your last post, it certainly appears
more likey that a Breton connection would exist. Back to the scrolls.......
Cheers,