EURE-DYMOKE
MICHAEL E MCGUINN
suggestions/corrections. References are in parentheses and indicate page
numbers or "line" numbers.
1. Muriel Eure; married at Ingleby 4 Nov. 1578 Sir Richard Goodricke, Kt.,
of Ribston. (MAD, vol.2, p417)
2. William Eure, 2nd Lord Eure, Warden of the Middle Marches, buried
Ingleby Greenhow 13 Feb. 1593/4, Inq. P.M. 24 Sept. 1594. (Clay 57-58; CP
vol.5, p. 181;Visit p. 205)
3. Margaret Dymoke, buried at Ingleby 15 Sep. 1591. (MAD v.4, p. 1205;
Lincs 42)
4. Sir Ralph Eure, Kt., Warden of the East Marches, Constable of
Scarborough Castle, killed at the battle of Ancram Moor with the Scots 6
Mar. 1544-5 vide patris, buried at Melrose Abbey. (CP v.5, p. 181; Clay 57;
Visit 205)
5. Margery Bowes.
6. Sir Edward Dymoke of Scrivelsby, co. Lincoln and of Kyme, sheriff of
Lincoln 1536, age 36 at father's death; died 16 Sep. 1566. (Faris 95; MAD
v.4, p. 1205; Lincs 42; BLG 220)
7. Anne Tailbois, living 8 June 1566 (Faris 95; MCS 108; MAD v.4, p.
1205)
8. Sir William Eure, 1st Lord Eure of Malton, created Lord Eure of Witton,
co. Durham, Warden of the East Marches, died 15 Mar. 1548, Inq. P.M. 18 May
1549. (CP vol. 5, pp. 179-181; Clay 57; Visit 205)
9. Elizabeth Willoughby. (CP v. 5, pp. 179-181)
10. Sir Ralph Bowes of Streatlam.
12. Sir Robert Dymoke of Scrivelsby, Kt., Champion to Richard III, Henry
VII, and Henry VIII; Sheriff of Lincoln, commander at the siege of Tournay;
age 9 at father's death, died 13 Apr. 1544. (Faris 95; MAD v.4, p.1205;
Lincs 42; BLG 220)
13. Anne Sparrow of London. (Faris 95)
14. George Tailboys, Kt., Lord Kyme de jure, sheriff of Lincolnshire, age
28 in 1495, died 21 Sep. 1538. (Faris 238; MCS 108)
15. Elizabeth Gascoigne, died 1559 (Faris 238)
16. Sir Ralph Eure, Kt., sheriff of Northumberland and of Yorkshire, died.
22 Oct. 1539. Married 1st. for him lisc. 18 Jan. 1481-2 in the chapel of
Fenwick: (CP v.5, p. 179; Clay 56-57; Visit 205)
17. Muriel Hastings (CP v.5, p. 179)
18. Christopher Willoughby of Parham, styled "Lord Willoughby de Eresby"
24. Sir Thomas Dymoke, Champion of Edward IV, age 27+ at father's death,
beheaded by Yorkists 12 Mar. 1470 before the Battle of Stamford (Faris 94;
MAD v.4, p. 1204; Lincs 42; BLG 220)
25. Margaret Welles, 3rd dau. and co-heir of Sir Lionel Welles. (Faris 94;
AR 202; MAD v.4. p. 1204)
28. Robert Tailboys, Lord Kyme (AR 224; MCS 108)
29. Elizabeth Heron
32. Sir William Eure, Kt., Sheriff of Yorkshire 1483. (Clay 56; Visit 205)
33. Margaret Constable
34. Sir Hugh Hastings, Kt., of Fenwick. (CP v.5, p.179; Clay 56)
48. Sir Philip Dymoke, Champion to Henry VI, age 22 at father's death, died
23 Sep. 1455. (AR 202; MAD v.4, p. 1204; Lincs 42; BLG 220)
49. Joane Conyers
56. Sir William Tailboys, Kt., Lord Kyme, b. ca. 1415, beheaded May 1464
(MCS 108)
57. Elizabeth Bonville, d. 14 Feb. 1490/1 (MCS 108)
64. Sir Ralph Eure, Kt, slain at Towton 1461. (Clay 56; Visit 204)
65. Eleanor de Greystock (Clay 56, 97)
66. Sir Robert Constable of Flamborough, d. 3 May 1488, M.P. Yorkshire,
sheriff of Yorkshire (Visit 205; PCF Yorks, vol.2)
67. Agnes Wentworth (PCF Yorks, vol.2)
96. Sir Thomas Dymoke, K.B., Champion to Henry IV and Henry V, age 60+ at
mother's death, Inq. P.M. 1423. (MAD v.4, p. 1203; Lincs 42; BLG 220)
97. Elizabeth Hebden (MAD v.4. p. 1203)
98. Sir Christopher Conyers of Sokebourne, Durham (MAD v.4, p.1204; BLG
220)
128. Sir William Eure, Kt., of Stokesley, Malton, and Witton, sheriff of
Yorkshire 1445, at the battle of Agincourt; died before 12 Feb. 1466-7.
Clay 55; Visit 611)
129. Maude FitzHugh (Clay 74)
130. John, 6th Lord Greystock, Governor of Roxburgh Castle, age 28 at
father's death; died 6 or 8 Aug. 1436. (Clay 97)
131. Elizabeth Ferrers, died 1434.
132. Sir Robert Constable of Flamborough, d. 1441 (PCF Yorks, v. 2)
133. Agnes Gascoigne (PCF Yorks, v.2)
192. Sir John Dymoke, Kt., of Scrivelsby, M.P. Lincolnshire 1377, Champion
at the coronation of Richard II; died 16 Apr. 1381. (MAD v. 4, p. 1203;
Lincs 42; BLG 220).
193. Margaret Ludlow, d. ca. 1415. (BLG 220)
256. Sir Ralph de Eure, Kt., of Stokesley and Malton; had Licence to fortify
his castle at Witton; died 10 Mar. 1422. (Clay 54-55; AR 204; MCS 112;
Visit 610)
257. Katherine de Aton, heiress of Malton. (Clay 55; MCS 112; CP v.1, p.
326))
258. Henry, 3rd Lord FitzHugh of Ravensworth, K.G., summoned 1387 to 1423,
Constable of England, at the Battle of Agincourt; died 11 Jan. 1424/5.
(Clay 74)
259. Elizabeth Marmion, heiress of Tanfield (Clay 74)
260. Ralph de Greystock, 5th Lord Greystock and Lord Fitz William, in the
Scottish wars; died 6 Apr. 1417. (Clay 97; AR 202)
261. Katherine Clifford. (AR 202)
262. Sir Robert Ferrers, 2nd Lord Ferrers of Wemme (Clay 97)
384. John Dymoke (MAD v. 4, p. 1202; Lincs 42)
385. Felicia Hareville. (MAD v.4, p. 1202)
512. Sir John de Eure, Constable of Dover Castle; died 22 Feb. 1393. (Clay
54; AR 204; MCS 112; Visit 610)
513. Isabella Clifford (AR 204)
514. Sir Willaim de Aton, Lord Vesci, 2nd Baron Aton, active in the French
wars of Edward III, sheriff of Yorkshire and Governor of York Castle; died
1389 and bur. at Old Malton Priory; mar. in 1340: (AR 206; MCS 11; Clay 4;
CP v.1, pp. 325-6)
515. Isabel de Percy. (AR 206; MCS 11; CP v.1, p. 325)
516. Henry, 2nd Lord Fitz-Hugh of Ravensworth, summoned 1377 to 1385, died
29 Aug. 1386. (Clay 74)
517. Joan le Scrope (Clay 74)
518. Sir Robert Grey alias Marmion (Clay 74)
519. Lora St. Quintin (Clay 74)
520. William de Greystock, 4th Lord Greystock, Governor of Berwick, in the
French wars with the Black Prince, bap. at Grimthorpe 6 Jan. 1320/1, age 3
at father's death; died 20 Joly 1358. (Clay 96-97)
521. Joan FitzHenry, d. 1 Sep. 1403 at Clerkenwell.
522. Roger de Clifford, 5th Lord Clifford (Clay 97; CP. v.3, p. 292; AR
202)
523. Maud de Beauchamp (AR 202)
768. Henry Dymoke. (MAD v. 4, p. 1202; Lincs 42)
769. Dionisia Placetis
1024. Sir John de Eure of Stokesley, aged 22 in 1326-7 at father's Inq. P.
M.; Inq. P.M. 1367-8. (Clay 54; Visit 610)
1026. Robert de Clifford, 1st Lord Clifford, Governor of Nottingham Castle,
slain at Bannockburn 24 June 1314. (AR 82, 204)
1027. Maud de Clare (AR 64, 82)
1028. Sir Gilbert de Aton, 1st Lord Aton, summoned 1324; will dated 10 Apr.
1350.
1030. Henry Percy, K.G., 2nd Lord Percy of Alnwick, M.P. 1322-1352, born
1299, died 26 Feb. 1351/2 (AR 161; MCS 11, 152)
1031. Iodine de Clifford. (AR 205, MCS 8, 11)
1032. Henry Fitz-Hugh, d.v.p. 1352. (Clay 74)
1033. Joan de Fourneys (Furneux) (Clay 74)
1034. Henry le Scrope, 1st Lord Scrope of Masham
1040. Ralph de Greystock, Lord of Greystock, held the manors of Grimthorpe,
Crossthwaite, Thorpe Bassett, and Neasham; fought for the King at the Battle
of Boroughbridge; born 15 Aug. 1299, died (poisoned) 14 July 1323. (Clay
96)
1041. Alice de Audley
1042. same as 2064
1043. same as 2065
1046. Thomas de Beauchamp, K.G., Earl of Warwick, b. 1313, d. 16 Nov. 1369
(AR 87)
1047. Katherine de Mortimore, d. 1371 (AR 120)
1538. Sir Hugh Placetis, Lord of Codlington, Warton, and Hook Norton
2048. Sir John de Eure of Stokesley, Ingleby, and Easeby, sheriff of
Yorkshire 1309-11; Inq. P.M. 1326-7. (Clay 54; Visit 610)
2049. Agnes de Lisle
2056. William de Aton, of Aton; summoned to perform service against the
Scots. (Clay 3; CP v.1, p.324-5; Visit 610)
2057. Isabel de Vere (Clay 3; CP v.1, p.324)
2062. same as 1026
2063. same as 1027
2064. Henry Fitz-Hugh, 1st Lord Fitz-Hugh of Ravensworth, summoned 1321 to
1351, in the wars in Scotland; died at Ravensworth 1356. (Clay 73)
2065. Eve de Bulmer
2080. Robert Fitz Ralph, Lord Greystock, age 40 at father's death and died a
year after in 1316/7. (Clay 96)
2081. Elizabeth de Neville.
2082. Hugh de Audley, Lord Audley, Ambassador to France, d. 1325/6.
2083. Isolde de Mortimore
4096. Sir Hugh de Eure, Kt., of Eure and Stokesley. (Clay 54; Visit 609)
4097. a daughter of Roger Bertram, Baron of Mitford. (Clay 54)
4098. Sir John de Lisle
4112. William de Aton, of Aton. (Clay 3; Visit 609)
4114. Simon de Vere (CP v.1, p. 324)
4115. Ada de Bertram, dau. of Roger Bertram of Mitford (CP v.1, p.324)
4160. Ralph Fitz William of Grimthorpe, 1st Lord Greystock, summoned 295 to
1315, died All Saints Day 1315 or 1316. (Clay 96)
4161. Margery Fitz Hugh, daughter of Hugh de Bolbec. (Clay 96)
4162. Ralph Nevile of Scotton, Lincolnshire (Clay 96)
8192. John Fitz Robert, 3rd Baron of Warkworth, sheriff of Northumberland
1224-7, died 1240. (Clay 54; Visit 609)
8193. Ada de Balliol
8224. Gilbert de Aton of Aton in Pickering. (Clay 4; Visit 609)
8225. Margery de Vesci. (Clay 4; Visit 609)
16450. Warine de Vesci, Lord of Knapton. (Clay 4; Visit 608)
32900. William de Vesci, sheriff of Northumberland, d. 1184 or 1185 (Clay 4;
Visit 608)
65800. Eustace Fitz-John, Governor of Bambourough Castle, at the Battle of
Standard 1138, slain in Wales 3 Jul. 1157. (Visit 608)
65801. Beatrix de Vescy
71600. John de Burgo, called Monaculus.
MEM
===============================================================
References :
AR= "Ancestral Roots of Certain Colonists ..." by F.L. Weis (additions and
corrections by Walter Sheppard and David Faris), 7th ed.
BLG= "Burke's Landed Gentry", 18th Edition
Clay= "Dormant and Extinct Peerages of the Northern Counties" by John W.
Clay
CP= "Complete Peerage ...." by G.E.C. Cokayne, new ed.
Faris= "Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists" by David
Faris
GBR= "The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants ..." by Gary Boyd Roberts
Lincs= "Visitation of Lincolnshire in 1562-4" by Metcalfe
MAD= "Lincolnshire Pedigrees" by Rev. Canon A. R. Maddison
MCS= "The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215", 4th ed., by F. L. Weis (additions
and corrections by Walter Sheppard and David Faris)
PCF Yorks= "Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire" by Joseph Foster
Visit= "Visitation of Yorkshire in 1584/5 and 1612".
Reedpcgen
archives for commentary on these lines like the Constables and the false
connection to "Burgo".
A comment on sources, however, as it seems you've made a concerted effort at
this project. Since much of your material is early Yorkshire, you should
understand that Foster's Yorkshire Pedigrees is very untrustworthy in earliest
generations. It frequently includes fabulous information. Clay is a more
dependable source.
CP is generally trustworthy, as it cites to original records. But there are
several other sources available at many large university libraries (and the
FHL) you might use to supplement information:
(1) Early Yorkshire Charters, useful for the earliest generations of Yorkshire
families or families who had Yorkshire interests. I think many of these
families are smmarized in a more recent volume published by the Yorkshire Arch.
Soc. [Early Yorkshire Families?]. When I find it I'll post the info.
(2) WIlliam Farrer's Honours and Knights' Fees, 3 vols., covers much Yorkshire
and Lincolnshire material.
(3) Sanders' English Baronies, though general to all of England, covers the
first centuries of the descents of 'baronies.'
(4) Testamenta Eboracensia, being transcriptions of early Yorkshire wills
published by the Surtees Society (vols. 4, 30, etc.). There is also a volume
of North Country wills (Durham, etc.).
(5) Visitations of the North...circa 1480-1500, Surtees Society v. 144. This
volume has the advantage of being contemporaneous information for the families
it covers. I've found a number of items missed by Complete Peerage in it.
These are more general, but vaulable sources which if not primary records, cite
to them. There was also a good article by James Hansen in TAG on the Skepper
ancestry which is an example of what sources can be used for such
Yorkshire/Lincolnshire ancestry, but I cannot remember the exact citation.
pcr
ED MANN
<edited>
> 1. Muriel Eure; married at Ingleby 4 Nov. 1578 Sir Richard Goodricke, Kt.,
> of Ribston. (MAD, vol.2, p417)
> 32. Sir William Eure, Kt., Sheriff of Yorkshire 1483. (Clay 56; Visit 205)
> 33. Margaret Constable
> 66. Sir Robert Constable of Flamborough, d. 3 May 1488, M.P. Yorkshire,
> sheriff of Yorkshire (Visit 205; PCF Yorks, vol.2)
> 67. Agnes Wentworth (PCF Yorks, vol.2)
I show the Margaret Constable, dtr of ##66 & 67 above to be married to
Ralph Bigod as his 1st wife, no mention of her being married to another
man at any time.
See F23:6
> 513. Isabella Clifford (AR 204)
> 1026. Robert de Clifford, 1st Lord Clifford, Governor of Nottingham Castle,
> slain at Bannockburn 24 June 1314. (AR 82, 204)
> 1027. Maud de Clare (AR 64, 82)
Weis has 513 as daughter of 2d Lord Clifford and his wife Isabel de
Berkeley. See W112-7.
--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
NK1 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_One_, [page].
Π= Hardy, _Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America_,
[page].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat emptor.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat emptor.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page]
MICHAEL E MCGUINN
ED MANN wrote in message <36B278B1...@mail2.lcia.com>...
>MICHAEL E MCGUINN wrote:
>
><edited>
>
Kt.,
>> of Ribston. (MAD, vol.2, p417)
>
205)
>> 33. Margaret Constable
>
>> sheriff of Yorkshire (Visit 205; PCF Yorks, vol.2)
>> 67. Agnes Wentworth (PCF Yorks, vol.2)
>
>Ralph Bigod as his 1st wife, no mention of her being married to another
>man at any time.
>
>See F23:6
>
>
Castle,
>> slain at Bannockburn 24 June 1314. (AR 82, 204)
>> 1027. Maud de Clare (AR 64, 82)
>
>Berkeley. See W112-7.
>
generation. "Ancestral Roots ..." indicates that Isabella who married Sir
John Eure was the dau. of Robert, 1st Lord, but "Magna Charta Surities"
states that she was the dau. of Robert, 3rd Lord. The dates would fit with
the latter. What do you think?
_________1st GENERATION________________
Robert de Clifford, 1st Lord Clifford by writ, slain at the battle of
Bannockburn 1314; married 1295 Maud de Clare, d. 1326/7, 2nd dau. of Thomas
de Clare, and had issue:
a. Roger, 2nd Lord Clifford, d. unm.
b. Robert, 3rd Lord Clifford
c. John
d. Idonea, d. 24 Aug. 1365; mar. Henry Percy, 2nd Lord Percy
e. Margaret, d. 8 Aug. 1382; mar. Piers de Mauley
_________2nd GENERATION________________
Robert de Clifford, 3rd Lord Clifford, succeeded his brother Roger, b. 5
Nov. 1305, d. 20 may 1344; mar. 1328 Isabel de Berkely, d. 25 July 1362,
dau. of Maurice de Berkely and Eve la Zouch. Issue:
a. Robert, 4th Lord Clifford, d.s.p. ca. 1350
b. Roger, 5th Lord Clifford
c. Sir Thomas of Cockermouth
d. possibly Sir Lewis (said by some to be the son of Roger, 5th Lord)
e. Isabella; mar. 1361 Sir John Eure, d. 1393/4
_________3rd GENERATION_________________
Roger de Clifford, 5th Lord Clifford, succeeded his brother Robert, b. 10
July 1333, died 13 July 1389; mar. Maud de Beauchamp, d. 1402/3, dau. of
Thomas de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, and his wife Catherine de Mortimore.
Issue:
a. Thomas, 6th Lord Clifford
b. Sir William
c. Katherine, d. 23 Apr. 1413; mar. Ralph de Greystock, 5th Lord
Greystock
d. ? Margaret; mar. Sir John Melton
e. Mary; mar. Sir Philip Wentworth
f. Phillipa; mar. William Ferrers of Luton, Bedfordshire
ED MANN
<edited again>
> >> 513. Isabella Clifford (AR 204)
> >
> >> 1026. Robert de Clifford, 1st Lord Clifford, Governor of Nottingham
> Castle,
> >> slain at Bannockburn 24 June 1314. (AR 82, 204)
> >> 1027. Maud de Clare (AR 64, 82)
> >
> >Weis has 513 as daughter of 2d Lord Clifford and his wife Isabel de
> >Berkeley. See W112-7.
> >
> This is what I have on the Clifford family. I may have skipped a
> generation. "Ancestral Roots ..." indicates that Isabella who married Sir
> John Eure was the dau. of Robert, 1st Lord, but "Magna Charta Surities"
> states that she was the dau. of Robert, 3rd Lord. The dates would fit with
> the latter. What do you think?
I think Weis disagrees with himself (contrast Ä204-35 with W112-7), but
that the timing favors it being the 3d Lord Clifford.
Maybe Douglas Richardson can comment. He's now working with David
Faris, who worked with Weis on both the above.
KRot...@aol.com
her father to be the Robert that was slain at Bannockburn in 1314!!! Her
husband John EURE I have born about 1340, and dying Feb 22 1393, making him
abt 53 at death, which is abt average, it seems, for that era. Unless he was
very long lived, the earliest I can believe his birth would be abt 1330.
MICHAEL E MCGUINN
>
><edited>
>
Kt.,
>> of Ribston. (MAD, vol.2, p417)
>
205)
>> 33. Margaret Constable
>
>> sheriff of Yorkshire (Visit 205; PCF Yorks, vol.2)
>> 67. Agnes Wentworth (PCF Yorks, vol.2)
>
>Ralph Bigod as his 1st wife, no mention of her being married to another
>man at any time.
>
>See F23:6
Following is from "Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire". The
Visitation of Yorkshire 1563 and 1564 agrees on all except it names another
daughter Anne who died young, and names two daughters Margaret (not unheard
of at that time).
Sir Robert Constable of Flamborough, M.P. for Yorkshire and sheriff of
Yorkshire, died 3 May 1488; mar.(1) Agnes Wentworth, dau. of Sir Roger
Wentworth of Nettlested, co. Suffolk, and his wife Margery Despenser. Issue
of Sir Robert:
a. Sir Marmaduke; mar.(1) Joyce Stafford; mar.(2) Margery Fitz Hugh
b. John, a priest, Dean of Lincoln
c. Philip of Wassand
d. Roger, d.s.p.
e. Sir Robert of Cliffe; mar. Beatrix Hatcliffe (Hawcliffe)
f. Sir William of Caythorpe; mar. Joan Fulthorpe
g. Elizabeth; mar. Sir Thomas Metham
h. Margaret; mar. Sir William Eure, Kt.
i. Agnes (?); mar.(1) Lord Berkely; mar.(2) Walter Griffith; mar.(3) Sir
Gervase Clifton
j. Margery; mar. Sir Ralph Bigod, Kt.
k. Anne; mar. Sir William Tyrwhit
l. Catherine; mar. Sir Ralph Ryther
m. Dorothy; mar. Ledgeard Chomley.
MEM
OR...@aol.com
MMCG...@prodigy.net writes:
> This is what I have on the Clifford family. I may have skipped a
> generation. "Ancestral Roots ..." indicates that Isabella who married Sir
> John Eure was the dau. of Robert, 1st Lord, but "Magna Charta Surities"
> states that she was the dau. of Robert, 3rd Lord. The dates would fit with
> the latter. What do you think?
<snip>
> _________3rd GENERATION_________________
>
> Roger de Clifford, 5th Lord Clifford, succeeded his brother Robert, b. 10
> July 1333, died 13 July 1389; mar. Maud de Beauchamp, d. 1402/3, dau. of
> Thomas de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, and his wife Catherine de Mortimore.
> Issue:
> a. Thomas, 6th Lord Clifford
> b. Sir William
> c. Katherine, d. 23 Apr. 1413; mar. Ralph de Greystock, 5th Lord
> Greystock
> d. ? Margaret; mar. Sir John Melton
> e. Mary; mar. Sir Philip Wentworth
>
I think this Mary is supposed to be the dau. of Sir John Clifford, 7th Lord
(d. 1422) and Elizabeth Percy d. 1437). Is this not true? (Faris PA 129-2)
f. Phillipa; mar. William Ferrers of Luton, Bedfordshire
or, I'm confused?
bill kullman
on the old oregon trail
MICHAEL E MCGUINN
OR...@aol.com wrote in message ...
>In a message dated 1/30/99 10:38:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>MMCG...@prodigy.net writes:
>> _________3rd GENERATION_________________
>>
>> Roger de Clifford, 5th Lord Clifford, succeeded his brother Robert, b.
10
>> July 1333, died 13 July 1389; mar. Maud de Beauchamp, d. 1402/3, dau.
of
>> Thomas de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, and his wife Catherine de
Mortimore.
>> Issue:
>> e. Mary; mar. Sir Philip Wentworth
>>
>I think this Mary is supposed to be the dau. of Sir John Clifford, 7th
Lord
>(d. 1422) and Elizabeth Percy d. 1437). Is this not true? (Faris PA 129-2)
>or, I'm confused?
<snip>
>bill kullman
>on the old oregon trail
Both the "Dictionary of National Biography", vol. 4, p. 530, and "The
Peerage of England" by Collins (Collins-Brydges edition), vol. 6, p. 515,
state that Mary the daughter of Roger de Clifford, 5th Lord Clifford, and
his wife Maud de Beauchamp, married Sir Philip Wentworth of
Wentworth-Woodhouse, Yorkshire. Faris states that Mary de Clifford, dau. of
John de Clifford and Elizabeth Percy, married Sir Philip Wentworth of
Nettlestead, co. Suffolk. These two Philip Wentworths are undoubtedly
different persons and are separated by several generations. I do not have
much Wentworth material, but I know there was a Wentworth genealogy
published (I believe in the late 1800's) that has been quoted in the past.
A Visitation of Suffolk also deals with the Wentworth family. From my notes
it appears that the Wentworts of Nettlestead were a cadet branch of the
Wentworths of Wentworth-Woodhouse.
Michael
MICHAEL E MCGUINN
Reedpcgen
Philip Wentworth [named after his ancestor Sir Phlip le Despenser], b. 1424, d.
18 May 1464, MP, the ancestor of the Nettlested branch who became Lords
Wentworth, who married Mary de Clifford. I have examined all early branches of
the Wentworth family in England in great detail.
If you look at my article on the Ancestry of John Harleston [_The Genealogist_
9:217-18, note 403], you'll see that each male ancestor in Mary de Clifford's
thirty-two quarterings was a peer, which was an extraordinary occurrence at
that period.
pcr
Reedpcgen
>it appears that the Wentworts of Nettlestead were a cadet branch of the
>Wentworths of Wentworth-Woodhouse.
Actually, though the two families have a common origin, the line of South
Elmsall/Nettlested can be traced back through documentary evidence earlier than
the Wentworth-Woodhouse branch. The details of this will appear in an article
to appear in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register.
pcr