Domesday Descendants correction - Quincy
Stewart, Peter
Descendants_ (Woodbridge, 2002) I noticed that the entries under de Quency
were rather light on for details & references. Katherine Keats-Rohan has
confused Robert de Quency with two namesakes in a later generation, his
grandsons.
The Robert she intends to cover (son of Saher I) died before 29 September
1197, not in 1217: this was his elder grandson of the same name.
The senior Robert's first wife, as stated, was Orabilis (died before 30 June
1203). They were the parents of Saher III (born ca 1155, died on crusade at
Damietta 3 November 1219), 1st earl of Winchester, and were evidently
divorced as Orabilis was later wife of Gilchrist, earl of Mar. She was
daughter of Ness fitz William, lord of Leuchars, Fifeshire. Saher III was
made earl before 10 February 1207, i.e. more than nine years after his
father's death and not over ten years before as would be a consequence of
the _Domesday Descendants_ version.
Robert's second wife was named Eva, of unknown family. The husband of
Hawise, countess of Lincoln was his grandson Robert, of Long Buckby (died
August 1217), eldest son of Saher III above, and father as Keats-Rohans
states of Margaret, countess of Lincoln.
However, he was not also father of Joan (died 25 November 1283), second wife
of Humphrey de Bohun (died 27 October 1265). This was another Robert,
apparently his namesake's full-brother (killed in a tournament August 1257),
who married Elen ferch Llywelyn of Gwynedd. They also had a daughter named
Hawise, wife of Baldwin Wake, lord of Bourne & Liddell (died 5 February
1282).
Keats-Rohan makes Joan a daughter of her great-grandfather, whom she
actually outlived by 86 years. For some reason she appears not to have
consulted CP for this family, or two valuable later accounts, Sidney
Painter's *The House of Quency, 1136C1264*, _Medievalia et Humanistica_ 11
(1957), and Doris Grace Roth's *Robert de Quincy, Eldest Son of the First
Earl of Winchester*, _The Genealogist_ 5 (1984).
Peter Stewart
Sutliff
A very minor question. Saher I had a son Saher II who had a son Saher d.s.p.
I usually find the last mentioned called Saher III and the one you show
below as Saher IV. I notice CP uses this numbering. Which is correct?
Thanks.
""Stewart, Peter"" <Peter....@crsrehab.gov.au> wrote in message
news:BE9CF8DEAB7ED311B05E...@v003138e.crsrehab.gov.au...
Stewart, Peter
> From: Sutliff [mailto:ss...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 4:36
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Domesday Descendants correction - Quincy
>
>
> Peter,
>
> A very minor question. Saher I had a son Saher II who had a
> son Saher d.s.p. I usually find the last mentioned called
> Saher III and the one you show below as Saher IV. I notice
> CP uses this numbering. Which is correct?
I'm not sure that correctness, rather than convenience, comes into this
question in general, with very few people assigned ordinals by medieval
sources; but I apologise for my carelessness in this instance - I numbered
the Sahers ad hoc without thinking about the extra individual whom you very
properly give as Saher III above.
Peter Stewart
Alex Maxwell Findlater
> 1203). They were the parents of Saher III (born ca 1155, died on crusade at
> Damietta 3 November 1219), 1st earl of Winchester, and were evidently
> divorced as Orabilis was later wife of Gilchrist, earl of Mar. She was
> daughter of Ness fitz William, lord of Leuchars, Fifeshire. Saher III was
> made earl before 10 February 1207, i.e. more than nine years after his
> father's death and not over ten years before as would be a consequence of
> the _Domesday Descendants_ version.
Please, who is this Gilchrist earl of Mar? I cannot find him in any book.
Thanks Alex
Gryphon801
Diane Sheppard
> Please, who is this Gilchrist earl of Mar? I cannot find him in any book.
>
Diane