Instructions for accessing soc.genealogy.medieval without Google Groups

[GEN-MEDIEVAL Administrator]

As most here are aware, Google Groups will no longer serve as a venue for participating in the Usenet newsgroup soc.genealogy.medieval (or any other Usenet groups) effective 22 February. The group, however, will continue to exist in its original form on Usenet, but accessing it there requires the use of a separate set of software and servers. Everything I will describe here has already been discussed in the group by myself and others, but often buried within other threads, and I thought it would be useful to create a dedicated message with a clear Subject line, for those who might access the archive after Google Groups cuts off access to the newsgroup.

What you need to know:
Though soc.gen.med is presented on Google Groups as if it was a web-based discussion board, this was just the way Google chose to make the content available. Soc.gen.med has always been, and remains, a Usenet newsgroup - a type of online discussion board that predates the existence of web pages. Google just provided a web-based viewer for this non-web content.

In order to participate in soc.genealogy.medieval after Google lowers the boom, you will need to arrange two things. First, you will need software that is capable of reading this type of material. For those who use a non-web-based format for their mail, that mail software is likely to also be able to read newsgroup content. If you use a web-based mail service (e.g. Gmail, Yahoo) or some other services (Outlook), then you will need to install a separate program (which could also be used to read your mail, if you choose to do so). One popular choice is Thunderbird, non-commercial (volunteer-produced) freeware (donations welcomed) by the same collaboration that produces the Firefox browser. This is not the only option, and you can search the web for others, but it is a popular one.

The second thing you will need is a Usenet feed. Google was providing this, behind the scenes, but now you will need a source for the Usenet messages. Back in the day, a newsgroup feed was part of the bundle of services that came with internet access from your internet service provider, but most have dropped it. Many users now access Usenet as a separately-provided service. There are fee-based providers, but also free (donations welcomed) ones, notably Eternal September. Your provider will supply you with the information you need to direct your mail/newsgroup reader software to access the provider's Usenet newsgroup feed.

The process, then is that you will need to set up an account with a provider of a Usenet (newsgroup) feed, and will need to configure your mail/newsgroup software (which you will have to install if you are not already using mail software with that capability) to access the newsgroup account you have set up.

Given the volume of people who have been using Google Groups for Usenet, there is no shortage of instructions online for going through this process, for just about every combination of mail/newsgroup reader software and newsgroup feed provider. If you choose the Thunderbird/Eternal September route, the following are step-by-step instructions:

https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_Usenet

I recently went through this process, and it took less than a half-hour for Thunderbird download and installation, setting up an Eternal September account, getting the two to talk to each other, and subscribing to the soc.genealogy.medieval group (where 'subscribing' is not a formal process, it is just telling your reader that you wish to follow that group).

The only modification to the instructions, based on my own recent experience, is that when I first connected Thunderbird to Eternal September, the only newsgroups I could access were internal test newsgroups run by Eternal September (these are described int eh instructions but as if they had to be sought out among all of the Usenet ones). It was only after I subscribed to one of those test groups and made a test that I could then return to Subscribe, hit Refresh, and have access to the tens of thousands of Usenet newsgroups, including soc.genealogy.medieval. (You can unsubscribe from the test newsgroup at any time thereafter.) I do not know if my installation was unusual, or if mine is more typical and the instruction preparer had a different experience because they had already completed this prerequisite and forgot/didn't realize it would not show a newbie all the Usenet groups until the test posting had been made.

taf

[Stewart Baldwin]

I followed the instructions, and within a few minutes, I had access to
the newsgroup. It was probably easier for me because I had already been
using Thunderbird for my e-mail. This message will be my test to see if
posting by e-mail is also working.

Stewart Baldwin

[Jan Wolfe]

The followup I sent a few minutes ago in another thread seemed to be
threaded correctly on Google Groups but not on Eternal September as
shown in Thunderbird. So I'm sending this reply to see if it gets
threaded properly.
Any suggestions from experienced users on how to interact in sgm using
Thunderbird and Eternal September would be appreciated.

[Jan Wolfe]

On 2/6/2024 1:34 PM, Jan Wolfe wrote:
> The followup I sent a few minutes ago in another thread seemed to be
> threaded correctly on Google Groups but not on Eternal September as
> shown in Thunderbird. So I'm sending this reply to see if it gets
> threaded properly.
> Any suggestions from experienced users on how to interact in sgm using
> Thunderbird and Eternal September would be appreciated.

This reply (followup in newsgroup terminology) appears to have threaded
correctly. I double clicked on the thread in the middle window of
Thunderbird. That produced several tabs, one for each of the posts in
the thread. I went to the tab of the most recent post and selected the
followup button. So, apparently that is how to reply to (followup to) a
post with Thunderbird. Any thing else I should know about this?

Next question: Is Thunderbird putting all these newsgroup posts
somewhere on my computer's hard drive? If so, where? I generally don't
want to keep any of the newsgroup posts. I just want to read them
online. With Google Groups (and before that with roots-web), I just read
the posts in a browser window. When I closed the browser window, they
were gone. If I wanted to read a particular post again, I simply went to
it again in Google Groups (or earlier in roots-web) and read the post
again.

[taf]

(Not an experience user, at least this time around, but ... )

There are two views available on Tbird: threaded or by date. I initially
thought that your messages were not threaded correctly, but they had the
appropriate References tags for threading. Then I noticed that my Tbird
had been switched to the unthreaded view. I reset to threaded and then
your messages showed up in their threads.

To toggle between the two views, there is a little button on the
far-left of the bar with 'Subject', 'From', and 'Date' on it -
immediately left of the star. That toggles back and forth between the views.


taf

[taf]

On 2/6/2024 11:41 AM, Jan Wolfe wrote:

> Next question: Is Thunderbird putting all these newsgroup posts
> somewhere on my computer's hard drive? If so, where? I generally don't
> want to keep any of the newsgroup posts. I just want to read them
> online. With Google Groups (and before that with roots-web), I just read
> the posts in a browser window. When I closed the browser window, they
> were gone. If I wanted to read a particular post again, I simply went to
> it again in Google Groups (or earlier in roots-web) and read the post
> again.

Again, no particular expertise here, but . . .

Tbird doesn't let you read online, you have to download the messages.
That said, while they don't disappear as soon as you read them, you can
set how much/how long you want massages to be retained on your system.

If you right click on the newsgroup name and select Properties, a
'Folder Properties' window will open up. Select the 'Retention Policy'
tab, and you will be given the options of saving everything, only saving
the most recent X messages (where you set the value of X) or only saving
messages from the past Y days (again, you set Y), and finally the option
of automatically retaining any messages you have starred even if beyond
these cutoffs.

taf

[donna.hart...@gmail.com]

Taf,

I was looking at using SABnzbd (https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/sabnzbd.html). However, to get started, they are asking me for the Host, the Username and the Password. Is that something that you can provide??

Donna Hartley

[Ian Goddard]

Your first step would be to sign up for a service from something like
Eternal September or Individual.net (see my post of a few weeks ago).
You will have to set up a username and password for yourself when you do
that and these would be what you provide to SABnzbd together with the
hostname that that service provides when you join up.

Ian

[taf]

On 2/9/2024 8:43 AM, donna.hart...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was looking at using SABnzbd (https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/sabnzbd.html). However, to get started, they are asking me for the Host, the Username and the Password. Is that something that you can provide??
>

As Ian has indicated, you would be using SABnzbd in place of
Thunderbird, so the part about signing up to a news provider is still
necessary, but then you would sent up SABnzbd in an analogous manner to
how setting up Thunderbird is described.

Specifically, if you sign up with Eternal September, they will ask you
to create a Username, and require you to give an associated email
address. They will then email you a Password at that address, which you
use to log in on Eternal September. They will then show you the Host
information (you can also change the password to one of your own
choosing). These are the three pieces of information, Host, Username and
Password, that you need for SABnzbd.

taf

[Scott Swanson]

[sswa...@butler.edu]

I have been following the instructions posted taf posted.

I have just saved the filename listed under New.rc file (Task 5, Step 3).

So far as I can tell, everything worked beautifully till I got to the penultimate step: Task 5, Step 4: Using your web browser, download the .newsrc file. When prompted for the filename, .... paste in the filename from the previous step.

This is inscrutable. Where do I go to download the .newsrc file? Presumably, once I find it and download it, I can paste in the filename.

Thanks for guidance!

Scott.

[taf]

Well, I can explain how to do it, but I think you shouldn't. These
instructions are to replace the full list of newsgroups with a
highly-abbreviate list of 'active' newsgroups. However, this is far from
complete, and if you follow the instructions, you will severely restrict
your options. Specifically, soc.genealogy.medieval is NOT on the list,
even though when the list was compiled it was relatively active and
spam-free. How many other active groups were left off the list?

Anyhow, the instructions you are trying to follow are how to replace the
full list of 10s of thousands of newsgroup with this little list of only
120. If you really want to do this, and I would recommend against it,
you would do the following:

1. Click on the link given in Step 4 - ".newsc file" is a hyperlink.
This will open a browser window consisting of the list in question.

2. Right-click, select 'Save as', and paste into the File Name field the
location on your computer that you copied from step 3 of Task 5.

3. Save and restart Thunderbird.

That is it, but again, this is not the best way to go about this.
Instead, just look at BUT DON'T SAVE the web page with the list of
active groups. If you find any groups that interest you, you can then
subscribe to those groups by browsing for them in the full list in the
same manner as described in the first two steps of Task 5:

In Thunderbird, right click on the news account you have just set up,
and select subscribe, then search/browse the full list of available
newsgroups for the one(s) that interest you and check the box next to
it, and hit OK. Tell it how many headers you want it to download. and
you are set.

This latter approach gives you the best of both worlds - you get to see
the list of what might be the most active spam-free groups without
foreclosing your ability to access all the other groups that have been
left off the list.


Hope this helps.

taf

[sswa...@butler.edu]

Thanks! I hear and obey.

[Paulo Ricardo Canedo]

Is there a way to access that on mobile?

[Ian Goddard]

sswa...@butler.edu wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 8:20:42 PM UTC-5, taf wrote:
>> On 2/14/2024 12:00 PM, sswa...@butler.edu wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 2:57:48 PM UTC-5, Scott Swanson wrote:
>>
>>> I have been following the instructions posted taf posted.
>>>
>>> I have just saved the filename listed under New.rc file (Task 5, Step 3).
>>>
>>> So far as I can tell, everything worked beautifully till I got to the penultimate step: Task 5, Step 4: Using your web browser, download the .newsrc file. When prompted for the filename, .... paste in the filename from the previous step.
>>>

.newsrc sounds like the sort of file name you'd expect on a Unix (or
derivative) system running an ancient non-GUI newsreader. FWIW although
I'm running the Unix successor Linux I don't have such a file. As my
newsreader uses the same code base as Thunderbird it seems likely it can
be regarded.

I gather from taf's reply that it's instructions to tell a newsreader
how to get a list of available groups. T'bird knows how to do that
without help.

Ian

[taf]

On 2/15/2024 3:48 AM, Ian Goddard wrote:
> sswa...@butler.edu wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 8:20:42 PM UTC-5, taf wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2024 12:00 PM, sswa...@butler.edu wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been following the instructions posted taf posted.
>>>>
>>>> I have just saved the filename listed under New.rc file (Task 5,
>>>> Step 3).
>>>>
>>>> So far as I can tell, everything worked beautifully till I got to
>>>> the penultimate step: Task 5, Step 4: Using your web browser,
>>>> download the .newsrc file. When prompted for the filename, ....
>>>> paste in the filename from the previous step.

> I gather from taf's reply that it's instructions to tell a newsreader
> how to get a list of available groups.  T'bird knows how to do that
> without help.

At the very end, Task 5 gives the instructions for subscribing to a
group from the Tbird-acquired newsgroup list. Then, however, it provides
an optional alternative - because the full list is overrun with
spam-riddled inactive cesspools, he suggests that browsing to find a
good group may be overly tedious. As such, he gives instructions on how
one could replace the Tbird-acquired full newsgroup list with a
highly-abbreviated list of ~120 groups known (as of that date) to be
active and relatively spam-free. As I have said, I think this is an
ill-advised approach, particularly since soc.gen.med is not on the list.

taf

[taf]

On 2/14/2024 9:19 PM, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:

> Is there a way to access that on mobile?

As I understand it, an Android-compatible version of Thunderbird is in
development and that some of the functionality is available in beta:
https://blog.thunderbird.net/2023/12/when-will-thunderbird-for-android-be-released/

There are other options available. A quick Google search turned up
nzbget and nzbleech, as well as a Google Play offering called PhoNews. I
am sure there are others.

taf

[Scott Swanson]

When I set up the Eternal-September/Thunderbird feed, it opened
something like 500 messages back to 16 October 2023.

Is there a way of asking the server to download messages from further
back, say, from the middle of 2022?

Thanks to you tech wizards for all your help.

Scott.

[Enno Borgsteede]

Op 17-02-2024 om 15:02 schreef Scott Swanson:

> Is there a way of asking the server to download messages from further
> back, say, from the middle of 2022?

I don't know a direct way, but there might be a trick, which is that you
unsubscribe in Thunderbird, and then subscribe again. In that case, next
time you download message headers, Thunderbird will tell you how many
message headers there are, and ask you if you want to download all, or a
specified number, like 500.

I see no way to download headers from a specific date, but that may be
possible with another client, if the protocol allows that.

OTOH, as long as Google provides newsgroup access, you can search their
archives too.

Enno

[robert.the...@gmail.com]

I wonder if switching to Groups.io is an option, or at least moving the the old posts there, a few years ago many Yahoo discussion groups moved to Groups.io which is well made, it has no connection whatsoever with Usenet, and never has. This announcement has no impact on Groups.io in any way. Robert

[taf]

On 2/20/2024 8:03 AM, robert.the...@gmail.com wrote:

> I wonder if switching to Groups.io is an option, or at least moving the the old posts there, a few years ago many Yahoo discussion groups moved to Groups.io which is well made, it has no connection whatsoever with Usenet, and never has. This announcement has no impact on Groups.io in any way. Robert

There are any number of potential venues for an alternative, non-Usenet
venue to discuss medieval genealogy. One could set up a Facebook group
or a Reddit, a message board on various venues (including Google
Groups). However, with any of them, the hesitance or unwillingness of
some of the the old dogs in this group (including myself) to learn a new
trick means that no matter what new venue is created, some of the
expertise of the group will be lost - and let's face it, this group
isn't exactly thriving as it is. Yes, the whole challenge of going to
Usenet will represent a significant to attracting new participants, but
Groups.io is not exactly a more obvious destination for someone looking
for such conversations - I don't even recall a single Groups.io site
coming up on a Google search, so it is not clear interested people will
be led there in any way, while soc.gen.med at least has the advantage of
an almost 30-year head start in terms of name recognition. The group is
going to be hurting no matter what is done, but I personally don't think
setting up a new group to which only some of the current participants
will relocate, that new participants will need to become aware of and
search out, is going to improve the situation appreciably.

taf

[Leslie Mahler]

For some reason, this discussion group:
https://groups.google.com/g/peerage-news
Does not have a message about an impending shutdown.

Leslie

[Jinny Wallerstedt]

Taf, Thanks for great instructions and help. Before this migration came
up, I’d never used open-source anything; had never heard of Usenet; and
am only minimally familiar with tech lingo. Navigating the new setup,
getting familiar with viewing options and other fundamentals will be new
learning for me.

Questions: Is Narkive the best/only way to visit all past Soc.medieval
discussions on Google Groups? Is there a search function there that I’m
missing?

Will the inactive group/archive come up in a Google search only as Narkive?

Is there a way that directions for accessing the migrated group can come
up in a Google Search of “medieval genealogy,” for example, or be added
to Narkive page? Forgive me if more tech-sophisticated others already
know that “no” is the basic answer.

Re: your post just above, I’m a middle-aged dog (in spirit, if not
actuarially) who uses FaceBook and belongs to a few genealogy-related
groups there. I don’t find them difficult. It might be challenging to
persuade longtime group participants to make such a shift, but if we
decide to explore in future, I’m in.

For me, it’s hard to overstate how rich, fascinating and valuable this
group is.

[Jinny Wallerstedt]

On 2/20/2024 11:38 AM, taf wrote:

Taf, Thanks for great instructions and help. Before this migration came

up, I’d never used open-source anything and had never heard of Usenet
and am not very familiar with tech lingo. Navigating the new setup,

getting familiar with viewing options and other fundamentals will be new
learning for me.

Questions: Is Narkive the best/only way to visit all past Soc.medieval
discussions on Google Groups? Is there a search function there that I’m
missing?

Will the inactive group/archive come up in a Google search only as Narkive?

Is there a way that directions for accessing the migrated group can come

up in a Google Search of “medieval genealogy,” for example…added to
Narkive? Forgive me if more tech-sophisticated others already know that
“no” is the basic answer to these.

Re: your post just above, I’m a middle-aged dog (in spirit, if not
actuarially) who uses FaceBook and belongs to a few genealogy-related
groups there. I don’t find them difficult. It might be challenging to
persuade longtime group participants to make such a shift, but if we
decide to explore in future, I’m in. For me, it’s hard to overstate how

rich, fascinating and helpful this group is.

[taf]

On 2/20/2024 9:57 AM, Leslie Mahler wrote:

> For some reason, this discussion group:
> https://groups.google.com/g/peerage-news
> Does not have a message about an impending shutdown.

That is a true Google Group rather than a Usenet group dressed up as a
Google Group, as is the case with soc.genealogy.medieval. It is thus
unaffected by the policy change.

taf

[taf]

On 2/20/2024 10:21 AM, Jinny Wallerstedt wrote:

> Questions: Is Narkive the best/only way to visit all past Soc.medieval
> discussions on Google Groups? Is there a search function there that I’m
> missing?

It is still unclear how Google Groups is going to manage the soc.gen.med
archive there. There may be a more convenient search function there, but
we will have to see what they do.

> Will the inactive group/archive come up in a Google search only as Narkive?

The termination notice explicitly states that the material in Google
Groups will continue to be available, and since the Google Groups hits
come up on a Google search now, they should continue to do so, in some
form, but time will tell.

For either of these approaches, the best way to access the material
would seem to be a Google Advanced search:

https://www.google.com/advanced_search

for which you specify the 'site or domain:' parameter as either of the
following:

https://soc.genealogy.medieval.narkive.com/
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/

When you get your returned results, you can further limit them by date
using the Tools drop-down in the upper right of the results page, but
when I just tried this with the Narkive site specified it was giving me
flaky results, not showing a 6-month-old post with a 'past year' limited
search but showing it from a search without a date limit.

> Is there a way that directions for accessing the migrated group can come
> up in a Google Search of “medieval genealogy,” for example, or be added
> to Narkive page? Forgive me if more tech-sophisticated others already
> know that “no” is the basic answer.

In short, no.

Narkive is a one-person catch-and-host operation that does not include
any group-specific instructions. Even the general Usenet information
they have (which do not go into the necessary level of detail) seem to
be out of date/not maintained, so I think adding any group-specific
information is a non-starter.

As to it coming up on a Google search, getting a page to be high in a
returned search listing is an art that consultants get paid money to try
to bring about, and which Google tries just as hard to make as opaque as
possible to keep commercial interests from 'gaming the algorithm'.
Anything that can be done can only be done on a web page that one
personally controls, and having it on just some random web host will
already give it a lower priority than, for example, Google Groups has.
(This is why I reposted the same instructions here again under a
different header, hoping to increase search terms that might result in a
Google Search return. (I will probably do it again, in the final hours,
again with a different header, with the same goal in mind.)

taf

[Scott Swanson]

It turns out that Enno’s trick works perfectly. I unsubscribed and
resubscribed and downloaded 3000 headers which took me back 5 December
2022; did it again and downloaded 3200 headers which took me back to 21
October 2022. The only quirk I can see is that on long chains, only the
first 100 messages appear. One chain I looked at has 156 contributions
yet I could only see the first 100. Not sure whether there another
trick to see the remaining 56.

Scott.