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Gilbert of Pauls Walden
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Matthew Connolly
Dec 14, 2012, 6:34:33 AM12/14/12
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Largely post-medieval, but these particular Gilberts may be a familiar name to anyone interested in the ancestry of Queen Elizabeth II; also the fact that their origins are obscure:
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00088905&tree=LEO
Most of what is known comes from a couple of monumental inscriptions - a summary here:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_hkA87TVeW4C&pg=PA132
- including, on the following page, the observation that “The career and genealogy of this ancestor of the Queen have so far baffled researchers.”
There is an error in the original transcription given there, in that Mary Gilbert is said to have died in MDCCLII; but in fact the inscription actually says MDCCXLII, i.e. 10 years earlier. Also, her arms, given as a chevron between three eagles heads erased (borne by several families), I suspect should probably be a chevron [Or] between three GRIFFINS heads erased [Arg.], for Skinner of Ledbury.
I'll give the ancestry I have for Mary Gilbert over a couple of posts, split for size, with the sources in a third. Her paternal ancestry is secure, at least for three generations or so, and is well supported by wills etc.; her maternal ancestry remains provisional, and could do with further corroboration (or refutation): the fact that her mother is not mentioned in the will of her own apparent father is troubling, but not neccesarily conclusive disproof; no doubt we can all cite examples of known children omitted from wills, either because they have been provided for by previous settlement, or through some estrangement. There are, at least, several points that seem to support the pedigree below.
-Matthew
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00088905&tree=LEO
Most of what is known comes from a couple of monumental inscriptions - a summary here:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_hkA87TVeW4C&pg=PA132
- including, on the following page, the observation that “The career and genealogy of this ancestor of the Queen have so far baffled researchers.”
There is an error in the original transcription given there, in that Mary Gilbert is said to have died in MDCCLII; but in fact the inscription actually says MDCCXLII, i.e. 10 years earlier. Also, her arms, given as a chevron between three eagles heads erased (borne by several families), I suspect should probably be a chevron [Or] between three GRIFFINS heads erased [Arg.], for Skinner of Ledbury.
I'll give the ancestry I have for Mary Gilbert over a couple of posts, split for size, with the sources in a third. Her paternal ancestry is secure, at least for three generations or so, and is well supported by wills etc.; her maternal ancestry remains provisional, and could do with further corroboration (or refutation): the fact that her mother is not mentioned in the will of her own apparent father is troubling, but not neccesarily conclusive disproof; no doubt we can all cite examples of known children omitted from wills, either because they have been provided for by previous settlement, or through some estrangement. There are, at least, several points that seem to support the pedigree below.
-Matthew
Matthew Connolly
Dec 14, 2012, 6:45:49 AM12/14/12
to
Here's the first chunk:
1. Mary Gilbert, only (surviving) child (a son Lancelot, bap. 1718, must have died young) bap. 20 Nov 1720 St Nicholas Olave, London [1]. Named in 1731 will of Mary Bignall (as daughter of nephew Edward Gilbert) [2] and 1739 will of James Gilbert (as daughter of Mary, wife of his brother Edward) [3]. Marriage settlement 10 June 1743 [4], married 14 June 1743 at St Botolph Aldersgate, London [5]. Named in 1763 will of Elizabeth Westbrooke (as niece Mrs. Bowes, widow of George Bowes Esq.) [6]. Died 19 Jan. 1781 at St Paul’s Walden [7]; will proved 8 Feb. 1781 [8].
2. Edward Gilbert, apparently a grocer [9], later styled Scrivener [6] Bap. 8 Mar 1680/1, St Nicholas Cole Abbey, London [1]. Named in 1704 will of father (as second son) [10]; 1720 will of John Gilbert (as nephew) [11]; 1722 will of William Westbrook, grocer of London (as brother-in-law, business partner and overseer) [9]; 1725 will of William Gilbert (as brother and executor) [12]; 1731 will of Mary Bignall (as nephew and executor, also names Edward’s daughter Mary) [2]; 1739 will of James Gilbert (as brother and executor, also names Edward’s wife Mary and daughter Mary) [3]; and (although then dead) in 1763 will of Elizabeth Westbrooke (as brother, also names her niece Mrs Bowes as above) [6]. Dedicatee of poem by nephew Thomas Gilbert [13]. d. 27 May 1762 in 82nd year , bur. St. Paul’s Walden[14], probate 14 June 1762 [15]
3. Mary Skinner Bap. 7 Aug 1697 St Peter Cornhill, London[16] Mar. 13 Aug 1717 St Dionis Backchurch, London [17] marriage settlement as daughter of Lancelot Skinner, Citizen and Clothworker [18], but is not named in her father’s will. [19] Died 2 Sep 1742 in 46th year [14]
4. Thomas Gilbert, Citizen and Clothworker of London [10] Born about 1647 (c. 27, 1674/5) [20] named in father’s will 1658 (as a younger son) [21] Business partner of John Midgley, husband of his wife’s sister [22] Will dated 1704, codicil 27 Dec 1706, proved 1707 [10] mentioned in 1731 will of Mary Bignall (as brother, deceased) [2]
5. Sarah Townsend b. c. 1656 (c.18, 1674/5) [20] Marriage allegation 25 Jan 1674/5, to marry at St Martin’s, Ongar (Essex) or St Bartholomew the Great, London [20] Named in father’s will 1690 [23] Living 1707 (executor of husband’s will) [10]
6. Lancelot Skinner, Citizen and Clothworker of London [19] Cheesemonger 1691/7 [16] Alderman of London [19] Bap. 17 Dec 1659 Bishops Frome, Herefs. [1] Named in father’s will 1695 (as younger son) [24] d. 29 Jan. 1724 [25] Will names son John and family of son-in-law James Green, plus deceased mother-in-law Mrs. Parker. [19] Buried in family vault he purchased in Edmonton, Middlesex [19, 26]
7. Jane Parker b. 30 Aug & bap. 13 Sep 1668, St Peter Cornhill, London [16] mar. 22 June 1686 St Dionis Backchurch, London [17].
8. Rev. John Gilbert, Possibly bap. 10 Dec 1599 at Bourton on Dunsmore [1], although IGI implies that that John died the same year; aged 20 in 1620 [27]. MA (Oxon) 1623 [27]. Rector of Salford, Oxon, 1624 [27]; of Bourton-on-Dunsmore, Warks 1629-1660 [28]. Canon of Lichfield [27] Will 10 Aug. 1658, proved Feb. 1660 [21]
9. Abigail (-) Living 1658 [21]
10. Nathaniel Townsend, Citizen and Fishmonger [23] Apprenticed 1624 [22] Will 6 Jan 1689, proved 17 Jan 1690, names (inter alia) Thomas Gilbert, husband of daughter Sarah; also a brother Josiah T. [23]
11. Mary Lovell [22] mar. 14 Jan. 1646 All Hallows London Wall [1]
12. Lancelot Skinner of Walton in Bishop’s Frome (Herefs.), gent. [24] Named in will of Stephen Skinner 1645 (as son of testator’s deceased brother William) [29]. Will 1695 [24]
13. Priscilla Arundell , Bap. 9 Jul 1622 Bishop’s Frome, Herefs. [1] Married by 1642 (birth of son John) [1]; identity inferred by Lancelot and Priscilla naming a son ‘Arrindell’ [1]
14. William Parker, Clothworker; bur. 29 Nov 1719 [16]
15. Mary Chamberlain Bap. 14 Sep 1645 St Peter [16] Mar. 15 April 1666 [30] Bur. 10 Oct 1687 St Peter Cornhill, London [16]
1. Mary Gilbert, only (surviving) child (a son Lancelot, bap. 1718, must have died young) bap. 20 Nov 1720 St Nicholas Olave, London [1]. Named in 1731 will of Mary Bignall (as daughter of nephew Edward Gilbert) [2] and 1739 will of James Gilbert (as daughter of Mary, wife of his brother Edward) [3]. Marriage settlement 10 June 1743 [4], married 14 June 1743 at St Botolph Aldersgate, London [5]. Named in 1763 will of Elizabeth Westbrooke (as niece Mrs. Bowes, widow of George Bowes Esq.) [6]. Died 19 Jan. 1781 at St Paul’s Walden [7]; will proved 8 Feb. 1781 [8].
2. Edward Gilbert, apparently a grocer [9], later styled Scrivener [6] Bap. 8 Mar 1680/1, St Nicholas Cole Abbey, London [1]. Named in 1704 will of father (as second son) [10]; 1720 will of John Gilbert (as nephew) [11]; 1722 will of William Westbrook, grocer of London (as brother-in-law, business partner and overseer) [9]; 1725 will of William Gilbert (as brother and executor) [12]; 1731 will of Mary Bignall (as nephew and executor, also names Edward’s daughter Mary) [2]; 1739 will of James Gilbert (as brother and executor, also names Edward’s wife Mary and daughter Mary) [3]; and (although then dead) in 1763 will of Elizabeth Westbrooke (as brother, also names her niece Mrs Bowes as above) [6]. Dedicatee of poem by nephew Thomas Gilbert [13]. d. 27 May 1762 in 82nd year , bur. St. Paul’s Walden[14], probate 14 June 1762 [15]
3. Mary Skinner Bap. 7 Aug 1697 St Peter Cornhill, London[16] Mar. 13 Aug 1717 St Dionis Backchurch, London [17] marriage settlement as daughter of Lancelot Skinner, Citizen and Clothworker [18], but is not named in her father’s will. [19] Died 2 Sep 1742 in 46th year [14]
4. Thomas Gilbert, Citizen and Clothworker of London [10] Born about 1647 (c. 27, 1674/5) [20] named in father’s will 1658 (as a younger son) [21] Business partner of John Midgley, husband of his wife’s sister [22] Will dated 1704, codicil 27 Dec 1706, proved 1707 [10] mentioned in 1731 will of Mary Bignall (as brother, deceased) [2]
5. Sarah Townsend b. c. 1656 (c.18, 1674/5) [20] Marriage allegation 25 Jan 1674/5, to marry at St Martin’s, Ongar (Essex) or St Bartholomew the Great, London [20] Named in father’s will 1690 [23] Living 1707 (executor of husband’s will) [10]
6. Lancelot Skinner, Citizen and Clothworker of London [19] Cheesemonger 1691/7 [16] Alderman of London [19] Bap. 17 Dec 1659 Bishops Frome, Herefs. [1] Named in father’s will 1695 (as younger son) [24] d. 29 Jan. 1724 [25] Will names son John and family of son-in-law James Green, plus deceased mother-in-law Mrs. Parker. [19] Buried in family vault he purchased in Edmonton, Middlesex [19, 26]
7. Jane Parker b. 30 Aug & bap. 13 Sep 1668, St Peter Cornhill, London [16] mar. 22 June 1686 St Dionis Backchurch, London [17].
8. Rev. John Gilbert, Possibly bap. 10 Dec 1599 at Bourton on Dunsmore [1], although IGI implies that that John died the same year; aged 20 in 1620 [27]. MA (Oxon) 1623 [27]. Rector of Salford, Oxon, 1624 [27]; of Bourton-on-Dunsmore, Warks 1629-1660 [28]. Canon of Lichfield [27] Will 10 Aug. 1658, proved Feb. 1660 [21]
9. Abigail (-) Living 1658 [21]
10. Nathaniel Townsend, Citizen and Fishmonger [23] Apprenticed 1624 [22] Will 6 Jan 1689, proved 17 Jan 1690, names (inter alia) Thomas Gilbert, husband of daughter Sarah; also a brother Josiah T. [23]
11. Mary Lovell [22] mar. 14 Jan. 1646 All Hallows London Wall [1]
12. Lancelot Skinner of Walton in Bishop’s Frome (Herefs.), gent. [24] Named in will of Stephen Skinner 1645 (as son of testator’s deceased brother William) [29]. Will 1695 [24]
13. Priscilla Arundell , Bap. 9 Jul 1622 Bishop’s Frome, Herefs. [1] Married by 1642 (birth of son John) [1]; identity inferred by Lancelot and Priscilla naming a son ‘Arrindell’ [1]
14. William Parker, Clothworker; bur. 29 Nov 1719 [16]
15. Mary Chamberlain Bap. 14 Sep 1645 St Peter [16] Mar. 15 April 1666 [30] Bur. 10 Oct 1687 St Peter Cornhill, London [16]
Matthew Connolly
Dec 14, 2012, 6:56:06 AM12/14/12
to
And the rest:
16. Rev. William Gilbert MA [Lambeth?], Rector of Bourton-on-Dunsmore 1596-1629 [28] (Presumed father of John, who was the son of a clergyman [27] and succeeded him at Bourton [28])
17. Dorothy Higginson, mar. Claybrook, Leics. 26 Dec 1598 [1]. Possibly bur. 28 Feb 1642 Bourton-on-Dunsmore [1]; although that may be the wife of her son William, who also seems to have married a Dorothy.
18-19. NN
20. John Townsend, merchant, of Warwick [22]; presumably the John T of Warwick, merchant of the Staple, whose eldest son John was apprenticed a merchant in Bristol [31]
21-3. NN
24. William Skinner of Ledbury, Heref. [32, 33] ?bap. there 31 Aug 1567 [1]; dead 1645 (mentioned as brother, deceased, in will of Stephen Skinner) [29]
25. NN
26. John Arundell (or Arndell) of Bishop’s Frome, Bap. 26 Dec 1595 Stretton Grandison [1], fl. 1626
27. Margery Whoper (Hoper) mar. 7 Feb 1615 Much Marcle, Herefs. [1]
28-9. NN
30. William Chamberlain, Citizen and Poulter of London Bur. 25 Oct 1671 St Helen Bishopsgate, London [34]
31. Elizabeth Pitts Mar. 18 Nov 1644 St Peter-le-Poor, London[34] Bur. 23 Aug 1677 St Helen Bishopsgate, London [34]
48. Richard Skynner of Le Burtons in Ledbury [32, 33] named in father’s will (as eldest son) [35] bur. 1608 [33]
49. Margaret Stallard, 1st wife [32, 33] bur 5 Sep 1574 [33]
52. Thomas Arundell Bap. 5 Oct 1561 Stretton Grandison [1] fl. 1607 (birth of youngest child)[1]
53. Anne (-); no mother given for John in register, but she is named in birth entries for siblings [1]
96. Stephen Skynner of Le Burtons in Ledbury [32, 33] bur. 14 Sep. 1557 Ledbury [33] will at Lambeth [35]
97. Joan Bradford of Dymock, Glos. [32,33] Bur. 19 Aug 1557 [33]
98. John Stallard of Stretton (Stretton Grandison, Herefs.) will pr. 23 Nov. 1571, names son-in-law Richard Skynner, et al. [36]
104. James Arundell of Stretton Grandison fl. 1560/71 (births of children) [1]
105. Elizabeth (-) [1]
192. Stephen Skynner of Ledbury [33]
193. “dau. of Camberes of Elstowe” [33]
384. “Edward Skynner of Ledbury, grandson of John Skynner of Malvern (desc. from John Skynner of Bolingbroke, co. Linc.)” [33]
385. “dau. of Somers of Bromyard” [33]
That's all for now - still a cul-de-sac, albeit a larger one; perhaps somebody else will be able to expand it further.
16. Rev. William Gilbert MA [Lambeth?], Rector of Bourton-on-Dunsmore 1596-1629 [28] (Presumed father of John, who was the son of a clergyman [27] and succeeded him at Bourton [28])
17. Dorothy Higginson, mar. Claybrook, Leics. 26 Dec 1598 [1]. Possibly bur. 28 Feb 1642 Bourton-on-Dunsmore [1]; although that may be the wife of her son William, who also seems to have married a Dorothy.
18-19. NN
20. John Townsend, merchant, of Warwick [22]; presumably the John T of Warwick, merchant of the Staple, whose eldest son John was apprenticed a merchant in Bristol [31]
21-3. NN
24. William Skinner of Ledbury, Heref. [32, 33] ?bap. there 31 Aug 1567 [1]; dead 1645 (mentioned as brother, deceased, in will of Stephen Skinner) [29]
25. NN
26. John Arundell (or Arndell) of Bishop’s Frome, Bap. 26 Dec 1595 Stretton Grandison [1], fl. 1626
27. Margery Whoper (Hoper) mar. 7 Feb 1615 Much Marcle, Herefs. [1]
28-9. NN
30. William Chamberlain, Citizen and Poulter of London Bur. 25 Oct 1671 St Helen Bishopsgate, London [34]
31. Elizabeth Pitts Mar. 18 Nov 1644 St Peter-le-Poor, London[34] Bur. 23 Aug 1677 St Helen Bishopsgate, London [34]
48. Richard Skynner of Le Burtons in Ledbury [32, 33] named in father’s will (as eldest son) [35] bur. 1608 [33]
49. Margaret Stallard, 1st wife [32, 33] bur 5 Sep 1574 [33]
52. Thomas Arundell Bap. 5 Oct 1561 Stretton Grandison [1] fl. 1607 (birth of youngest child)[1]
53. Anne (-); no mother given for John in register, but she is named in birth entries for siblings [1]
96. Stephen Skynner of Le Burtons in Ledbury [32, 33] bur. 14 Sep. 1557 Ledbury [33] will at Lambeth [35]
97. Joan Bradford of Dymock, Glos. [32,33] Bur. 19 Aug 1557 [33]
98. John Stallard of Stretton (Stretton Grandison, Herefs.) will pr. 23 Nov. 1571, names son-in-law Richard Skynner, et al. [36]
104. James Arundell of Stretton Grandison fl. 1560/71 (births of children) [1]
105. Elizabeth (-) [1]
192. Stephen Skynner of Ledbury [33]
193. “dau. of Camberes of Elstowe” [33]
384. “Edward Skynner of Ledbury, grandson of John Skynner of Malvern (desc. from John Skynner of Bolingbroke, co. Linc.)” [33]
385. “dau. of Somers of Bromyard” [33]
That's all for now - still a cul-de-sac, albeit a larger one; perhaps somebody else will be able to expand it further.
Matthew Connolly
Dec 14, 2012, 6:59:30 AM12/14/12
to
Sources:
[1] IGI extracted record
[2] PCC Will of Mary Bignall, Widow of London PROB 11/675/230
[3] PCC Will of James Gilbert, Gentleman of Kidderminster PROB 11/699/93
[4] Durham Record Office D/St/D13/5/32-3; see (large page)
http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/Pages/AdvancedSearchCatalogueDetail.aspx?SearchType=Param&SearchID=dccd8d31-2ee6-46ee-8155-6d4d99670eec&Page=4&ItemID=169989#ref198278
of the other parties named therein, John Westbrooke of Navestock was Mary’s first cousin (son of Elizabeth, sister of Edward Gilbert) and Thomas Reeve of London, physician was married to another first cousin (her namesake Mary, daughter of Thomas, brother of Edward Gilbert).
[5] http://hertfordshire-genealogy.blogspot.com/2012/02/update-to-royal-connection-at-st-pauls.html
[6] PCC Will of Elizabeth Westbrooke, Widow of Navestock, Essex PROB 11/954/313
[7] Scots Magazine vol. 43 (1781) p.110
[8] PCC Will of Mary Bowes, Widow of Saint Pauls Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB 11/1074/73
[9] PCC Will of William Westbrooke, Grocer of Saint Mary at Hill, City of London PROB 11/594/418
[10] PCC Will of Thomas Gilbert, Citizen and Clothworker of London PROB 11/497/29
[11] PCC Will of John Gilbert of Saint Andrew in Plymouth, Devon PROB 11/590/338
[12] PCC Will of William Gilbert of Pancras Lane, city of London PROB 11/656/406
[13] http://cowley.lib.virginia.edu/small/paulswalden.htm
[14] MI in church of St. Paul’s Walden, Herts.
[15] PCC Will of Edward Gilbert of Saint Paul’s Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB 11/877/99
[16] Harleian Society registers vol. IV (1879)
[17] Harleian Society registers vol. III (1878)
[18] Berkshire Record Office D/EX 358/4 (large page):
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=005-dx301400&cid=50-5#50-5
[19] PCC Will of Lancelott Skinner or Skynner, Alderman of the City of London, Clothworker of the same place PROB 11/597/280
[20] Vicar-General Marriage Allegations, Harl. Soc. XXXIV (1892), p.133
[21] PCC Will of John Gilbert, Clerk of Frankton, Warwickshire PROB 11/303/646
[22] ‘The Rulers of London 1660-1689’ by JR Woodhead (London and Metropolitan Archive Society, 1965) p.164
[23] PCC Will of Nathaniel Townesend or Townsend, Fishmonger of London PROB 11/400/71
[24] Will of Lancelott Skynner of Walton http://willsdb.gukutils.org.uk/HEF/WillsS.html (large page)
[25] Mawson’s Obits, Genealogist NS VI p.101
[26] ‘The Monumental Inscriptions of Middlesex’ by Frederick Teague Cansick (London, 1875)
[27] Foster, Alumni Oxonienses 1500-1714, vol. II P.565
[28] Clergy of Church of England database: http://theclergydatabase.org.uk/index.html
[29] PCC Will of Stephen Skinner or Skynner, Gentleman of Cradley, Herefordshire PROB 11/200/784 http://willsdb.gukutils.org.uk/HEF/WillsS.html (large page)
[30] Harleian Society Registers I (1877), p.264
[31] ‘Merchants and Merchandise in 17th Century Bristol’ by Patrick McGrath (Bristol Record Society, 1955), p.4
[32] Visitation of Herefordshire 1634, Harleian Society ns 15 (2002), p.92
[33]’ The Mansions of Herefordshire…’ by Charles John Robinson (1872), chart p. 235
[34] Boyd’s Citizens of London http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I63406&tree=London
[35] Will of Stephen Skynner of Ledbury, 1557: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=y0IBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q&f=false
[36] Misc. Gen. et Her. 4s V (1914) p.69 http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vCSYCHEq4iUC&pg=PA69#v=onepage&q&f=false
[1] IGI extracted record
[2] PCC Will of Mary Bignall, Widow of London PROB 11/675/230
[3] PCC Will of James Gilbert, Gentleman of Kidderminster PROB 11/699/93
[4] Durham Record Office D/St/D13/5/32-3; see (large page)
http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/Pages/AdvancedSearchCatalogueDetail.aspx?SearchType=Param&SearchID=dccd8d31-2ee6-46ee-8155-6d4d99670eec&Page=4&ItemID=169989#ref198278
of the other parties named therein, John Westbrooke of Navestock was Mary’s first cousin (son of Elizabeth, sister of Edward Gilbert) and Thomas Reeve of London, physician was married to another first cousin (her namesake Mary, daughter of Thomas, brother of Edward Gilbert).
[5] http://hertfordshire-genealogy.blogspot.com/2012/02/update-to-royal-connection-at-st-pauls.html
[6] PCC Will of Elizabeth Westbrooke, Widow of Navestock, Essex PROB 11/954/313
[7] Scots Magazine vol. 43 (1781) p.110
[8] PCC Will of Mary Bowes, Widow of Saint Pauls Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB 11/1074/73
[9] PCC Will of William Westbrooke, Grocer of Saint Mary at Hill, City of London PROB 11/594/418
[10] PCC Will of Thomas Gilbert, Citizen and Clothworker of London PROB 11/497/29
[11] PCC Will of John Gilbert of Saint Andrew in Plymouth, Devon PROB 11/590/338
[12] PCC Will of William Gilbert of Pancras Lane, city of London PROB 11/656/406
[13] http://cowley.lib.virginia.edu/small/paulswalden.htm
[14] MI in church of St. Paul’s Walden, Herts.
[15] PCC Will of Edward Gilbert of Saint Paul’s Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB 11/877/99
[16] Harleian Society registers vol. IV (1879)
[17] Harleian Society registers vol. III (1878)
[18] Berkshire Record Office D/EX 358/4 (large page):
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=005-dx301400&cid=50-5#50-5
[19] PCC Will of Lancelott Skinner or Skynner, Alderman of the City of London, Clothworker of the same place PROB 11/597/280
[20] Vicar-General Marriage Allegations, Harl. Soc. XXXIV (1892), p.133
[21] PCC Will of John Gilbert, Clerk of Frankton, Warwickshire PROB 11/303/646
[22] ‘The Rulers of London 1660-1689’ by JR Woodhead (London and Metropolitan Archive Society, 1965) p.164
[23] PCC Will of Nathaniel Townesend or Townsend, Fishmonger of London PROB 11/400/71
[24] Will of Lancelott Skynner of Walton http://willsdb.gukutils.org.uk/HEF/WillsS.html (large page)
[25] Mawson’s Obits, Genealogist NS VI p.101
[26] ‘The Monumental Inscriptions of Middlesex’ by Frederick Teague Cansick (London, 1875)
[27] Foster, Alumni Oxonienses 1500-1714, vol. II P.565
[28] Clergy of Church of England database: http://theclergydatabase.org.uk/index.html
[29] PCC Will of Stephen Skinner or Skynner, Gentleman of Cradley, Herefordshire PROB 11/200/784 http://willsdb.gukutils.org.uk/HEF/WillsS.html (large page)
[30] Harleian Society Registers I (1877), p.264
[31] ‘Merchants and Merchandise in 17th Century Bristol’ by Patrick McGrath (Bristol Record Society, 1955), p.4
[32] Visitation of Herefordshire 1634, Harleian Society ns 15 (2002), p.92
[33]’ The Mansions of Herefordshire…’ by Charles John Robinson (1872), chart p. 235
[34] Boyd’s Citizens of London http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I63406&tree=London
[35] Will of Stephen Skynner of Ledbury, 1557: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=y0IBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q&f=false
[36] Misc. Gen. et Her. 4s V (1914) p.69 http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vCSYCHEq4iUC&pg=PA69#v=onepage&q&f=false
Matthew Connolly
Dec 14, 2012, 7:22:08 AM12/14/12
to
A last supplement to the Gilbert pedigree above, is to provide links to a couple of the more notable members of the same line, as given in the ODNB.
Firstly, there is Thomas Gilbert (1713-1766), 'satirist and rake'; he was the only son of Thomas Gilbert (bapt. 1679), elder brother of Edward Gilbert of Paul's Walden (number 2 in ahnentafel above). (His poem dedicated to his uncle Edward is at source [13] above.)
Second and more distant is John Gilbert (1693-1761), Archbishop of York; he was son of John Gilbert (d.1732), son of Rev. John Gilbert (1638-1722), who was second son of Rev. John Gilbert (c.1599-1660), number 8 in the ahnentafel. (The latter's first son, Rev. Edward (1637-1683), succeeded his father as rector of Bourton and, like his later namesake, left an only daughter called Mary.)
The archbishop married Margaret Sherard, sister of Philip, 2nd Earl of Harborough; their daughter Emma married George, 1st Earl of Mount Edgcumbe, and has many descendants.
Firstly, there is Thomas Gilbert (1713-1766), 'satirist and rake'; he was the only son of Thomas Gilbert (bapt. 1679), elder brother of Edward Gilbert of Paul's Walden (number 2 in ahnentafel above). (His poem dedicated to his uncle Edward is at source [13] above.)
Second and more distant is John Gilbert (1693-1761), Archbishop of York; he was son of John Gilbert (d.1732), son of Rev. John Gilbert (1638-1722), who was second son of Rev. John Gilbert (c.1599-1660), number 8 in the ahnentafel. (The latter's first son, Rev. Edward (1637-1683), succeeded his father as rector of Bourton and, like his later namesake, left an only daughter called Mary.)
The archbishop married Margaret Sherard, sister of Philip, 2nd Earl of Harborough; their daughter Emma married George, 1st Earl of Mount Edgcumbe, and has many descendants.
Message has been deleted
Wjhonson
Dec 14, 2012, 10:32:38 AM12/14/12
to mvernon...@yahoo.co.uk, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Are you referring to this?
http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Hertfordshire/visitations/index.html
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
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the message
http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Hertfordshire/visitations/index.html
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
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Wjhonson
Dec 14, 2012, 11:03:39 AM12/14/12
to mvernon...@yahoo.co.uk, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Among their many descents, the current Earl of Edgcumbe is also a Cecil descent
Message has been deleted
hoove...@yahoo.com
Dec 14, 2012, 12:00:00 PM12/14/12
to mvernon...@yahoo.co.uk, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
On Friday, December 14, 2012 11:03:39 AM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> Among their many descents, the current Earl of Edgcumbe is also a Cecil descent
Earl of Mount Edgcumbe [G.B. 1789]
> Among their many descents, the current Earl of Edgcumbe is also a Cecil descent
hoove...@yahoo.com
Dec 14, 2012, 12:04:39 PM12/14/12
to
Marc
John Higgins
Dec 14, 2012, 12:30:46 PM12/14/12
to
On Dec 14, 7:32 am, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> Are you referring to this?http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Hertfordshire/visitations/inde...
>
> [35] Will of Stephen Skynner of Ledbury, 1557: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=y0IBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q&f...
>
> [36] Misc. Gen. et Her. 4s V (1914) p.69http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vCSYCHEq4iUC&pg=PA69#v=onepage&q&f...
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
Herefordshire, and the new series of the Harleian Society is not the
same as the old series. AFAIK the volume that Matt cited is not
available online.
> Are you referring to this?http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Hertfordshire/visitations/inde...
>
> [32] Visitation of Herefordshire 1634, Harleian Society ns 15 (2002), p.92
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Connolly <mvernonconno...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 4:00 am
> Subject: Re: Gilbert of Pauls Walden
>
> Sources:
>
> [1] IGI extracted record
> [2] PCC Will of Mary Bignall, Widow of London PROB 11/675/230
> [3] PCC Will of James Gilbert, Gentleman of Kidderminster PROB 11/699/93
> [4] Durham Record Office D/St/D13/5/32-3; see (large page)http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/Pages/AdvancedSearchCatalogueDet...
> [32] Visitation of Herefordshire 1634, Harleian Society ns 15 (2002), p.92
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Connolly <mvernonconno...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 4:00 am
> Subject: Re: Gilbert of Pauls Walden
>
> Sources:
>
> [1] IGI extracted record
> [2] PCC Will of Mary Bignall, Widow of London PROB 11/675/230
> [3] PCC Will of James Gilbert, Gentleman of Kidderminster PROB 11/699/93
>
> of the other parties named therein, John Westbrooke of Navestock was Mary’s
> first cousin (son of Elizabeth, sister of Edward Gilbert) and Thomas Reeve of
> London, physician was married to another first cousin (her namesake Mary,
> daughter of Thomas, brother of Edward Gilbert).
> [5]http://hertfordshire-genealogy.blogspot.com/2012/02/update-to-royal-c...
> of the other parties named therein, John Westbrooke of Navestock was Mary’s
> first cousin (son of Elizabeth, sister of Edward Gilbert) and Thomas Reeve of
> London, physician was married to another first cousin (her namesake Mary,
> daughter of Thomas, brother of Edward Gilbert).
>
> [6] PCC Will of Elizabeth Westbrooke, Widow of Navestock, Essex PROB 11/954/313
> [7] Scots Magazine vol. 43 (1781) p.110
> [8] PCC Will of Mary Bowes, Widow of Saint Pauls Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB
> 11/1074/73
> [9] PCC Will of William Westbrooke, Grocer of Saint Mary at Hill, City of London
> PROB 11/594/418
> [10] PCC Will of Thomas Gilbert, Citizen and Clothworker of London PROB
> 11/497/29
> [11] PCC Will of John Gilbert of Saint Andrew in Plymouth, Devon PROB 11/590/338
> [12] PCC Will of William Gilbert of Pancras Lane, city of London PROB 11/656/406
> [13]http://cowley.lib.virginia.edu/small/paulswalden.htm
> [14] MI in church of St. Paul’s Walden, Herts.
> [15] PCC Will of Edward Gilbert of Saint Paul’s Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB
> 11/877/99
> [16] Harleian Society registers vol. IV (1879)
> [17] Harleian Society registers vol. III (1878)
> [18] Berkshire Record Office D/EX 358/4 (large page):http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=005-dx301400&...
> [6] PCC Will of Elizabeth Westbrooke, Widow of Navestock, Essex PROB 11/954/313
> [7] Scots Magazine vol. 43 (1781) p.110
> [8] PCC Will of Mary Bowes, Widow of Saint Pauls Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB
> 11/1074/73
> [9] PCC Will of William Westbrooke, Grocer of Saint Mary at Hill, City of London
> PROB 11/594/418
> [10] PCC Will of Thomas Gilbert, Citizen and Clothworker of London PROB
> 11/497/29
> [11] PCC Will of John Gilbert of Saint Andrew in Plymouth, Devon PROB 11/590/338
> [12] PCC Will of William Gilbert of Pancras Lane, city of London PROB 11/656/406
> [13]http://cowley.lib.virginia.edu/small/paulswalden.htm
> [14] MI in church of St. Paul’s Walden, Herts.
> [15] PCC Will of Edward Gilbert of Saint Paul’s Walden Bury, Hertfordshire PROB
> 11/877/99
> [16] Harleian Society registers vol. IV (1879)
> [17] Harleian Society registers vol. III (1878)
>
> [19] PCC Will of Lancelott Skinner or Skynner, Alderman of the City of London,
> Clothworker of the same place PROB 11/597/280
> [20] Vicar-General Marriage Allegations, Harl. Soc. XXXIV (1892), p.133
> [21] PCC Will of John Gilbert, Clerk of Frankton, Warwickshire PROB 11/303/646
> [22] ‘The Rulers of London 1660-1689’ by JR Woodhead (London and Metropolitan
> Archive Society, 1965) p.164
> [23] PCC Will of Nathaniel Townesend or Townsend, Fishmonger of London PROB
> 11/400/71
> [24] Will of Lancelott Skynner of Waltonhttp://willsdb.gukutils.org.uk/HEF/WillsS.html
> [19] PCC Will of Lancelott Skinner or Skynner, Alderman of the City of London,
> Clothworker of the same place PROB 11/597/280
> [20] Vicar-General Marriage Allegations, Harl. Soc. XXXIV (1892), p.133
> [21] PCC Will of John Gilbert, Clerk of Frankton, Warwickshire PROB 11/303/646
> [22] ‘The Rulers of London 1660-1689’ by JR Woodhead (London and Metropolitan
> Archive Society, 1965) p.164
> [23] PCC Will of Nathaniel Townesend or Townsend, Fishmonger of London PROB
> 11/400/71
> (large page)
> [25] Mawson’s Obits, Genealogist NS VI p.101
> [26] ‘The Monumental Inscriptions of Middlesex’ by Frederick Teague Cansick
> (London, 1875)
> [27] Foster, Alumni Oxonienses 1500-1714, vol. II P.565
> [28] Clergy of Church of England database:http://theclergydatabase.org.uk/index.html
> [29] PCC Will of Stephen Skinner or Skynner, Gentleman of Cradley, Herefordshire
> PROB 11/200/784http://willsdb.gukutils.org.uk/HEF/WillsS.html(large page)
> [25] Mawson’s Obits, Genealogist NS VI p.101
> [26] ‘The Monumental Inscriptions of Middlesex’ by Frederick Teague Cansick
> (London, 1875)
> [27] Foster, Alumni Oxonienses 1500-1714, vol. II P.565
> [28] Clergy of Church of England database:http://theclergydatabase.org.uk/index.html
> [29] PCC Will of Stephen Skinner or Skynner, Gentleman of Cradley, Herefordshire
> [30] Harleian Society Registers I (1877), p.264
> [31] ‘Merchants and Merchandise in 17th Century Bristol’ by Patrick McGrath
> (Bristol Record Society, 1955), p.4
> [32] Visitation of Herefordshire 1634, Harleian Society ns 15 (2002), p.92
> [33]’ The Mansions of Herefordshire…’ by Charles John Robinson (1872), chart p.
> 235
> [34] Boyd’s Citizens of London http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I63406&tree=Lo...
> [31] ‘Merchants and Merchandise in 17th Century Bristol’ by Patrick McGrath
> (Bristol Record Society, 1955), p.4
> [32] Visitation of Herefordshire 1634, Harleian Society ns 15 (2002), p.92
> [33]’ The Mansions of Herefordshire…’ by Charles John Robinson (1872), chart p.
> 235
>
> [35] Will of Stephen Skynner of Ledbury, 1557: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=y0IBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q&f...
>
> [36] Misc. Gen. et Her. 4s V (1914) p.69http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vCSYCHEq4iUC&pg=PA69#v=onepage&q&f...
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
Read the citation again. Hertfordshire is not the same as
> the message
Herefordshire, and the new series of the Harleian Society is not the
same as the old series. AFAIK the volume that Matt cited is not
available online.
Wjhonson
Dec 14, 2012, 12:48:51 PM12/14/12
to jhigg...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Searchable
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?id=mdp.39015055860632&view=1up&seq=7&q1=gilbert
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?id=mdp.39015055860632&view=1up&seq=7&q1=gilbert
John Higgins
Dec 14, 2012, 4:41:35 PM12/14/12
to
On Dec 14, 9:48 am, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> Searchable
>
> http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?id=mdp.39015055860632&view=...
"Searchable"? Not really, when you can't see even snippet views of the
pages in question. And the reference to this book was for Skynner,
not Gilbert.
At least the catalog record at Hathi Trust gives a link to Worldcat -
the book should be easily available through ILL.
> Searchable
>
> http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?id=mdp.39015055860632&view=...
pages in question. And the reference to this book was for Skynner,
not Gilbert.
At least the catalog record at Hathi Trust gives a link to Worldcat -
the book should be easily available through ILL.
Wjhonson
Dec 14, 2012, 4:47:31 PM12/14/12
to jhigg...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I called it searchable, because that is the term they used.
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
Richard Carruthers
Dec 14, 2012, 9:10:11 PM12/14/12
to John Higgins, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Frustrating to find something searchable but not visible! Sounds like
what happens when one thinks on the subject: "Ubi sunt qui ante nos
advenerunt?" Searchable?: yes; but visible? Well, not always, and
perhaps not even often.
Richard
> GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
what happens when one thinks on the subject: "Ubi sunt qui ante nos
advenerunt?" Searchable?: yes; but visible? Well, not always, and
perhaps not even often.
Richard
Matthew Connolly
Dec 15, 2012, 3:54:34 AM12/15/12
to
On Friday, December 14, 2012 6:31:34 PM UTC+3, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > 16. Rev. William Gilbert MA [Lambeth?], Rector of Bourton-on-Dunsmore 1596-1629 [28] (Presumed father of John, who was the son of a clergyman [27] and succeeded him at Bourton [28])
>
> >
>
> > 17. Dorothy Higginson, mar. Claybrook, Leics. 26 Dec 1598 [1]. Possibly bur. 28 Feb 1642 Bourton-on-Dunsmore [1]; although that may be the wife of her son William, who also seems to have married a Dorothy.
>
>
>
> The parents of Dorothy Higginson were apparently Rev. John Higginson
> > 16. Rev. William Gilbert MA [Lambeth?], Rector of Bourton-on-Dunsmore 1596-1629 [28] (Presumed father of John, who was the son of a clergyman [27] and succeeded him at Bourton [28])
>
> >
>
> > 17. Dorothy Higginson, mar. Claybrook, Leics. 26 Dec 1598 [1]. Possibly bur. 28 Feb 1642 Bourton-on-Dunsmore [1]; although that may be the wife of her son William, who also seems to have married a Dorothy.
>
>
>
>
> of Claybrook and his wife Elizabeth: "Children, all baptized in
>
> Claybrooke except Nathaniel .... (3) Dorothy, baptized April 24, 1576;
>
> married, December, -----, William Gilbard."
>
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=kmujIJi3_FkC&pg=PA343&dq=dorothy+higginson+claybrook&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KT_LUKeCMZS29gSx04Ao&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=dorothy%20higginson%20claybrook&f=false
>
>
>
> "An old manuscript quoted by Colonel Thomas Wentworth Higginson in his
>
> "Life of Francis Higginson," gives the children [of the Rev. John
>
> Higginson] as follows: John, 'a gentleman that kept high company;'
>
> Francis; Nathaniel, 'owner of a castle in Ireland, but lost in the
>
> Rebellion;' Nicholas, 'father of Henry the goldsmith in Liverpool;'
>
> William; four daughters married to Andrews, Coleman, Gilbert, and
>
> Perkins."
>
>
>
> Francis Higginson was also a minister and an immigrant to New England
>
> (with a lot of descendants among the "Boston Brahmin" families, so-
>
> called). Senator John Kerry is a Higginson descendant (in fact, this
>
> may be his closest cousinship to the queen, unless she shares Temple
>
> of Stowe descent).
Excellent addition John, thanks. This opens up new avenues to investigate; and hopefully something, such as a will, will turn up to provide supporting evidence for Rev. John Gilbert being the son of Rev. William and Dorothy, as seems likely.
nsug...@gmail.com
May 3, 2014, 8:13:26 AM5/3/14
to
Mr Connolly,
Thank you for your research concerning the Gilbert family, especially the footnote regarding Dr Thomas Reeve and his wife Mary Gilbert, my fifth great grandparents.
I have added the new ancestors to my tree and read about the Bowes Lyon connections, the " unhappy countess ", and all that.
Being the genealogy addict that I am my mind was immediately turned towards finding out who the parents of Rev William Gilbert are, along with the Townshend connection which is also promising.
In researching the Gilbert connection I found that the Dorothy who married Rev William Gilbert was Dorothy Worcester.
Quote:
Bourton on Dunsmore
1626-1640 No French results
The book seems to have fallen apart at some time and been stitched together with the pages out of order. The entries are probably not complete in the early 1640's
1636 Dec 15 buried Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife
1638 Oct 31 bapt Richard Worcester son of Mr Thomas Worcester of Draycott and Elizabeth his wife
1638 Dec 26 batp Margery Worcester daughter of Mr William Worcester and Alice his wife
1638/9 Jan 20 bapt Abigaile Worcester daughter of Thomas Worcester of Bourton and Alice his wife
1642 /3 the last of Feb. buried Dorothy Gilbert the wife of William Gilbert (the rector) and daughter of Mr William Worcester and Ursula Worcester
1636 14 Dec bur Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife (this is evidently the same as above but mis-remembered. It is one of a group of entries written together, mainly relating to the Rector's family)
Source:
http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTSWEB/ChartE004.htm
go to this page and search (control f) for Gilbert.
-Nicholas Sugden
> [33]' The Mansions of Herefordshire...' by Charles John Robinson (1872), chart p. 235
Thank you for your research concerning the Gilbert family, especially the footnote regarding Dr Thomas Reeve and his wife Mary Gilbert, my fifth great grandparents.
I have added the new ancestors to my tree and read about the Bowes Lyon connections, the " unhappy countess ", and all that.
Being the genealogy addict that I am my mind was immediately turned towards finding out who the parents of Rev William Gilbert are, along with the Townshend connection which is also promising.
In researching the Gilbert connection I found that the Dorothy who married Rev William Gilbert was Dorothy Worcester.
Quote:
Bourton on Dunsmore
1626-1640 No French results
The book seems to have fallen apart at some time and been stitched together with the pages out of order. The entries are probably not complete in the early 1640's
1636 Dec 15 buried Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife
1638 Oct 31 bapt Richard Worcester son of Mr Thomas Worcester of Draycott and Elizabeth his wife
1638 Dec 26 batp Margery Worcester daughter of Mr William Worcester and Alice his wife
1638/9 Jan 20 bapt Abigaile Worcester daughter of Thomas Worcester of Bourton and Alice his wife
1642 /3 the last of Feb. buried Dorothy Gilbert the wife of William Gilbert (the rector) and daughter of Mr William Worcester and Ursula Worcester
1636 14 Dec bur Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife (this is evidently the same as above but mis-remembered. It is one of a group of entries written together, mainly relating to the Rector's family)
Source:
http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTSWEB/ChartE004.htm
go to this page and search (control f) for Gilbert.
-Nicholas Sugden
Matthew Connolly
May 7, 2014, 2:23:09 AM5/7/14
to
Le samedi 3 mai 2014 15:13:26 UTC+3, nsug...@gmail.com a écrit :
> Mr Connolly,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your research concerning the Gilbert family, especially the footnote regarding Dr Thomas Reeve and his wife Mary Gilbert, my fifth great grandparents.
>
>
>
> I have added the new ancestors to my tree and read about the Bowes Lyon connections, the " unhappy countess ", and all that.
>
>
>
> Being the genealogy addict that I am my mind was immediately turned towards finding out who the parents of Rev William Gilbert are, along with the Townshend connection which is also promising.
>
>
>
> In researching the Gilbert connection I found that the Dorothy who married Rev William Gilbert was Dorothy Worcester.
>
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
>
>
> Bourton on Dunsmore
>
> 1626-1640 No French results
>
> The book seems to have fallen apart at some time and been stitched together with the pages out of order. The entries are probably not complete in the early 1640's
>
> 1636 Dec 15 buried Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife
>
> 1638 Oct 31 bapt Richard Worcester son of Mr Thomas Worcester of Draycott and Elizabeth his wife
>
> 1638 Dec 26 batp Margery Worcester daughter of Mr William Worcester and Alice his wife
>
> 1638/9 Jan 20 bapt Abigaile Worcester daughter of Thomas Worcester of Bourton and Alice his wife
>
> 1642 /3 the last of Feb. buried Dorothy Gilbert the wife of William Gilbert (the rector) and daughter of Mr William Worcester and Ursula Worcester
>
> 1636 14 Dec bur Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife (this is evidently the same as above but mis-remembered. It is one of a group of entries written together, mainly relating to the Rector's family)
>
>
>
>
>
> Source:
>
>
>
> http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTSWEB/ChartE004.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> go to this page and search (control f) for Gilbert.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Nicholas Sugden
>
Dear Nicholas,
> Mr Connolly,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your research concerning the Gilbert family, especially the footnote regarding Dr Thomas Reeve and his wife Mary Gilbert, my fifth great grandparents.
>
>
>
> I have added the new ancestors to my tree and read about the Bowes Lyon connections, the " unhappy countess ", and all that.
>
>
>
> Being the genealogy addict that I am my mind was immediately turned towards finding out who the parents of Rev William Gilbert are, along with the Townshend connection which is also promising.
>
>
>
> In researching the Gilbert connection I found that the Dorothy who married Rev William Gilbert was Dorothy Worcester.
>
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
>
>
> Bourton on Dunsmore
>
> 1626-1640 No French results
>
> The book seems to have fallen apart at some time and been stitched together with the pages out of order. The entries are probably not complete in the early 1640's
>
> 1636 Dec 15 buried Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife
>
> 1638 Oct 31 bapt Richard Worcester son of Mr Thomas Worcester of Draycott and Elizabeth his wife
>
> 1638 Dec 26 batp Margery Worcester daughter of Mr William Worcester and Alice his wife
>
> 1638/9 Jan 20 bapt Abigaile Worcester daughter of Thomas Worcester of Bourton and Alice his wife
>
> 1642 /3 the last of Feb. buried Dorothy Gilbert the wife of William Gilbert (the rector) and daughter of Mr William Worcester and Ursula Worcester
>
> 1636 14 Dec bur Richard Worcester son of Mr William Worcester and Ursula his wife (this is evidently the same as above but mis-remembered. It is one of a group of entries written together, mainly relating to the Rector's family)
>
>
>
>
>
> Source:
>
>
>
> http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTSWEB/ChartE004.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> go to this page and search (control f) for Gilbert.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Nicholas Sugden
>
Thank you very much for posting this - very glad the research was useful to you. So Thomas Gilbert the poet is your ancestral uncle?
Excellent addition/correction about the Worcester family - so that would give the following in Mary Gilbert's Ahnentafel:
17. Dorothy Worcester, bur. 28 Feb. 1642/3, Bourton-on-Dunsmore
34. William Worcester
35. Ursula
Strange that the name Ursula doesn't seem to have been used by the Gilbert family; also interesting that the Worcesters used the name Abigail, which was also the name of the wife of Rev. John Gilbert - perhaps it was popular locally, or maybe they will turn out to be connected there too.
Keep us posted if you have any luck with the Townsends - as I recall, there were a couple of PCC wills of Townsends of Warwick but they didn't seem to conclusively establish a relationship.
-Matthew
Message has been deleted
nsug...@gmail.com
May 24, 2014, 10:35:08 PM5/24/14
to
Dear Mr Connolly, et all.
Thank you for your reply.
Its been really exciting to me to discover that my Gilbert link was so fruitful. I was not expecting this! Having the Poet Thomas Gilbert as a great uncle is interesting but of course pales in comparison with other ancestry and relations found in the past few years. Its gotten completely out of hand.
So, I have been working on this branch pretty intensely and made some more discoveries.
1. Mary Lovell was the daughter of William Lovell Citizen and Wax Chandler of London and his wife Elizabeth, possibly Elizabeth Roane. William was previously married to a Dorothy, probably Dorothy Sharpe, but she passed away in 1619, after having a few still born children. Mary Lovell had a sister Anne who was married to a John Bradley. There were more children born in the parish of St Mary Moyses Bread Street London, but only two are mentioned in the father`s Will.
These discoveries were made via the PCC Will of William Lovell Wax Chandler 1658. In his Will he mentions his wife Elizabeth, an unnamed sister, and his two daughters and their spouses names. He makes Nathaniel Townsend his executor and James and Helen Townsend, probably brother and sister in law of Nathaniel.
The Lovells are probably of the same family as that of Rev Benjamin Lovell and his son Sir Salatiel Lovell who had a daughter who married a Joseph Townsend.
If you google Rev Benjamin Townsend you'll find the families Burkes page etc as I did. Ben's parentage is not know apparently. He was ejected for being a Roundhead, and there is no Clergy database entry for him. I would not be surprised if Ben is Williams brother or first cousin.
2. Nathaniel Townsend cites a cousin John Dakins in his Will 1690. John Dakins was the son of John Dakins and Mabel Townsend daughter of Richard Townsend, Oxford Graduate, and Bencher of the Middle Temple, who was the son of John Townsend Esq of Warwick ( an MP for Warwick.)The Oxford database helped out with this.
John Townsend Esq MP for Warwick (d 1625) is most certainly the grandfather of Nathaniel Townsend. John has a brief Wikipedia page and two pages on the history of parliament online that make him appear like two different people. His father was Richard Townsend a Burgess and bailiff of Warwick ( Will PCC 1588) and his wife Christian `Fillingly`. Fillingly or Fylingly is a rare name that seems to be a place name form Warwickshire, originally ``Filongly``.
I noticed that you put a John Townsend of Warwick as the father of Nathaniel, but I don't know how you had that figured out.
Both Townsend and Lovell are prominent names with many prominent branches,and the shared Royal ancestry makes me more curious and confident that more significant ancestry is to be found.Its quite strange to be mapping a branch of the Townsends that hasnt been mapped before.
-Nicholas
- show quoted text -
Matthew Connolly
May 27, 2014, 1:59:51 PM5/27/14
to
Le dimanche 25 mai 2014 05:35:08 UTC+3, nsug...@gmail.com a écrit :
> Dear Mr Connolly, et all.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your reply.
>
>
>
> Its been really exciting to me to discover that my Gilbert link was so fruitful. I was not expecting this! Having the Poet Thomas Gilbert as a great uncle is interesting but of course pales in comparison with other ancestry and relations found in the past few years. Its gotten completely out of hand.
>
>
>
> So, I have been working on this branch pretty intensely and made some more discoveries.
>
>
>
> 1. Mary Lovell was the daughter of William Lovell Citizen and Wax Chandler of London and his wife Elizabeth, possibly Elizabeth Roane. William was previously married to a Dorothy, probably Dorothy Sharpe, but she passed away in 1619, after having a few still born children. Mary Lovell had a sister Anne who was married to a John Bradley. There were more children born in the parish of St Mary Moyses Bread Street London, but only two are mentioned in the father`s Will.
>
>
>
> These discoveries were made via the PCC Will of William Lovell Wax Chandler 1658. In his Will he mentions his wife Elizabeth, an unnamed sister, and his two daughters and their spouses names. He makes Nathaniel Townsend his executor and James and Helen Townsend, probably brother and sister in law of Nathaniel.
>
>
>
> The Lovells are probably of the same family as that of Rev Benjamin Lovell and his son Sir Salatiel Lovell who had a daughter who married a Joseph Townsend.
>
> If you google Rev Benjamin Townsend you'll find the families Burkes page etc as I did. Ben's parentage is not know apparently. He was ejected for being a Roundhead, and there is no Clergy database entry for him. I would not be surprised if Ben is Williams brother or first cousin.
>
>
>
> 2. Nathaniel Townsend cites a cousin John Dakins in his Will 1690. John Dakins was the son of John Dakins and Mabel Townsend daughter of Richard Townsend, Oxford Graduate, and Bencher of the Middle Temple, who was the son of John Townsend Esq of Warwick ( an MP for Warwick.)The Oxford database helped out with this.
>
>
>
> John Townsend Esq MP for Warwick (d 1625) is most certainly the grandfather of Nathaniel Townsend. John has a brief Wikipedia page and two pages on the history of parliament online that make him appear like two different people. His father was Richard Townsend a Burgess and bailiff of Warwick ( Will PCC 1588) and his wife Christian `Fillingly`. Fillingly or Fylingly is a rare name that seems to be a place name form Warwickshire, originally ``Filongly``.
>
>
>
> I noticed that you put a John Townsend of Warwick as the father of Nathaniel, but I don't know how you had that figured out.
>
>
>
> Both Townsend and Lovell are prominent names with many prominent branches,and the shared Royal ancestry makes me more curious and confident that more significant ancestry is to be found.Its quite strange to be mapping a branch of the Townsends that hasnt been mapped before.
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>
>
> -Nicholas
Dear Nicholas,
> Dear Mr Connolly, et all.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your reply.
>
>
>
> Its been really exciting to me to discover that my Gilbert link was so fruitful. I was not expecting this! Having the Poet Thomas Gilbert as a great uncle is interesting but of course pales in comparison with other ancestry and relations found in the past few years. Its gotten completely out of hand.
>
>
>
> So, I have been working on this branch pretty intensely and made some more discoveries.
>
>
>
> 1. Mary Lovell was the daughter of William Lovell Citizen and Wax Chandler of London and his wife Elizabeth, possibly Elizabeth Roane. William was previously married to a Dorothy, probably Dorothy Sharpe, but she passed away in 1619, after having a few still born children. Mary Lovell had a sister Anne who was married to a John Bradley. There were more children born in the parish of St Mary Moyses Bread Street London, but only two are mentioned in the father`s Will.
>
>
>
> These discoveries were made via the PCC Will of William Lovell Wax Chandler 1658. In his Will he mentions his wife Elizabeth, an unnamed sister, and his two daughters and their spouses names. He makes Nathaniel Townsend his executor and James and Helen Townsend, probably brother and sister in law of Nathaniel.
>
>
>
> The Lovells are probably of the same family as that of Rev Benjamin Lovell and his son Sir Salatiel Lovell who had a daughter who married a Joseph Townsend.
>
> If you google Rev Benjamin Townsend you'll find the families Burkes page etc as I did. Ben's parentage is not know apparently. He was ejected for being a Roundhead, and there is no Clergy database entry for him. I would not be surprised if Ben is Williams brother or first cousin.
>
>
>
> 2. Nathaniel Townsend cites a cousin John Dakins in his Will 1690. John Dakins was the son of John Dakins and Mabel Townsend daughter of Richard Townsend, Oxford Graduate, and Bencher of the Middle Temple, who was the son of John Townsend Esq of Warwick ( an MP for Warwick.)The Oxford database helped out with this.
>
>
>
> John Townsend Esq MP for Warwick (d 1625) is most certainly the grandfather of Nathaniel Townsend. John has a brief Wikipedia page and two pages on the history of parliament online that make him appear like two different people. His father was Richard Townsend a Burgess and bailiff of Warwick ( Will PCC 1588) and his wife Christian `Fillingly`. Fillingly or Fylingly is a rare name that seems to be a place name form Warwickshire, originally ``Filongly``.
>
>
>
> I noticed that you put a John Townsend of Warwick as the father of Nathaniel, but I don't know how you had that figured out.
>
>
>
> Both Townsend and Lovell are prominent names with many prominent branches,and the shared Royal ancestry makes me more curious and confident that more significant ancestry is to be found.Its quite strange to be mapping a branch of the Townsends that hasnt been mapped before.
>
>
>
> -Nicholas
Excellent work there - I agree that Townsend and Lovell are promising names, well done for adding more to the lines.
The source for Nathaniel's father being John Townsend of Warwick was the former's entry in 'The Rulers of London 1660-1689' (number 22 in my original list of sources), which affiliation would - I assume - be from his apprenticeship or other Guild records. I hypothesised that the father John could well be the same as the John Townsend of Warwick, merchant of the Staple, whose eldest son John was apprenticed a merchant in Bristol ('Merchants and Merchandise in 17th Century Bristol', source 31). That may be another possible avenue of research.
-Matthew
nsug...@gmail.com
Dec 3, 2014, 4:44:01 PM12/3/14
to
I thinkthat Dorothy Worcester is the wrong spouse for Rev William Gilbert and that it is Dorothy Higginson sister of the Rev Francis Higginson who went to Salem. The date for the marriage etc for Dorothy Higginson and William Gibart matches.
Do you have anything new?
-Nicholas
nsug...@gmail.com
Dec 4, 2014, 2:51:04 AM12/4/14
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Message has been deleted
schofi...@gmail.com
Dec 7, 2014, 8:31:50 AM12/7/14
to
On Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:34:30 PM UTC-5, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:23:09 AM UTC-4, Matthew Connolly wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:23:09 AM UTC-4, Matthew Connolly wrote:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=wLgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA148&dq=%22ursula+ux+william%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YAqBVNWSHpf_yQSOvIK4Aw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22ursula%20ux%20william%22&f=false
>
> A daughter of William Triste of Maidford by Agnes Coles of Preston Capes. I notice that Bourton on Dunsmore is close to a lake currently called Draycote Water, even though I don't find a Draycot, Warwickshire.
Hi Everyone,
There's definitely a relation between all of these families, but the Dorothy that Rev William Gilbert married seems to be Dorothy Higginson. There seems to be a generation of time difference.
I looked into the visitation record and its pedigree of the Trist family. Ursula Trist was born around 1570 and so a little too late to be a grandmother to Rev John Gilbert who was born in 1600. It is possible though.
The William Gilbert Dorothy Worcester married was probably the son William who also married a Dorothy. The marriage of Dorothy Higginson to William Gilbert took place in 1597. There needs to be more conclusive evidence found. Possibly in the Will of Rev William Gilbert if it can be found. Also Dorothy Higginson was part of a family including the Rev Francis Higginson who went to Salem USA who has much written about him including genealogical work.
The only source for the wife of Rev William Gilbert being Dorothy Worcester is the website I cited and the revisionist version of the parish records, thats vulnerable to mistakes I'd say.
Lets keep digging!
-Nicholas
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
schofi...@gmail.com
Dec 17, 2014, 1:25:45 PM12/17/14
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On Monday, December 8, 2014 11:33:39 AM UTC-5, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I wonder if the son William Gilbert was also a minister, as that is the status given in the OPRs for Dorothy's widower. But, as you say, the Bourton records may be jumbled or incorrect.
>
> I suppose it is possible that the first Rev. William Gilbert married two Dorothys: (1) Dorothy Higginson; (2) Dorothy Worcester.
HI,
Thanks for your work and contributions.
the record shows that Williams son John Gilbert followed him as Vicar of Bourton on Dunsmore but its possible that the son William was a Reverend also. I think that the French family website author got the William GIlberts mixed up.and its possible that the first William married two Dorothys but I dont think so.The marriage to Dorothy Higginson is clear and I think that Mr Connolly has more on that in his research.
The Trist connection is valuable. Back then these families intermarried over and over. There is probably common ancestry between the Trists and Gilberts anyways. I have a tree on Ancestry.com where i am mapping the common ancestry with the Gilberts and the royal family. I will include what I find on the Trist ancestry.
-Nicholas Schofield Sugden
>
> I suppose it is possible that the first Rev. William Gilbert married two Dorothys: (1) Dorothy Higginson; (2) Dorothy Worcester.
HI,
Thanks for your work and contributions.
the record shows that Williams son John Gilbert followed him as Vicar of Bourton on Dunsmore but its possible that the son William was a Reverend also. I think that the French family website author got the William GIlberts mixed up.and its possible that the first William married two Dorothys but I dont think so.The marriage to Dorothy Higginson is clear and I think that Mr Connolly has more on that in his research.
The Trist connection is valuable. Back then these families intermarried over and over. There is probably common ancestry between the Trists and Gilberts anyways. I have a tree on Ancestry.com where i am mapping the common ancestry with the Gilberts and the royal family. I will include what I find on the Trist ancestry.
-Nicholas Schofield Sugden
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