STEPHANIE- wife of WILLIAM I OF BURGUNDY
svbj...@online.no
Who were the parents of Stephanie?
Stephanie and William had the daughter Gisela, born c. 1070, and I have
seen (in the Gen-Medieval Archives) that Stephanie is also called
Etienne de Longwy and born c. 1035.
I had the information that Stephanie was the daughter of Raymond
Berengar II of Barcelona and Mathilda of Apulien. But I now see that
that can't be right for cronological reasons: Raymond and Mathilda is
said to have married c. 1080! (And their son Raymond Berengar III born
in 1082).
Could Stephanie have been the daughter of a previous Count of
Barcelona? (If so: Who?)
Svein Arnolf Bjorndal
Todd A. Farmerie
Oi!
Yet another open question.
> Stephanie and William had the daughter Gisela, born c. 1070, and I have
> seen (in the Gen-Medieval Archives) that Stephanie is also called
> Etienne de Longwy and born c. 1035.
>
> I had the information that Stephanie was the daughter of Raymond
> Berengar II of Barcelona and Mathilda of Apulien. But I now see that
> that can't be right for cronological reasons: Raymond and Mathilda is
> said to have married c. 1080! (And their son Raymond Berengar III born
> in 1082).
>
> Could Stephanie have been the daughter of a previous Count of
> Barcelona? (If so: Who?)
The most comprehensive work on the family was that of Vajay. In
addressing the question he listed off six different solutions which had
been suggested in the past. Then (as he had a habit of doing) he
rejected them all and suggested his own. I am not comfortable with any
of them.
I would have to say though that a Barcelona origin is somewhat
unlikely. It is likely that the Burgundian Dukes were descended from
the Counts of Barcelona (as shown by their sudden adoption of the byname
Borrel), and since Eudes Borrel married the daughter of Stephanie, this
marriage would then be of close relatives if the Countess was also of
Barcelona. (There was a tradition of kinship, since Henry of Portugal
(of the Burgundy Dukes) and Raymond of Galicia (of the Burgundy Counts)
are said to be related, but I think it was more distant).
taf
Jae Fleming
>I would have to say though that a Barcelona origin is somewhat
>unlikely. It is likely that the Burgundian Dukes were descended from
>the Counts of Barcelona (as shown by their sudden adoption of the byname
>Borrel), and since Eudes Borrel married the daughter of Stephanie, this
>marriage would then be of close relatives if the Countess was also of
>Barcelona. (There was a tradition of kinship, since Henry of Portugal
>(of the Burgundy Dukes) and Raymond of Galicia (of the Burgundy Counts)
>are said to be related, but I think it was more distant).
>
>taf
I have Etienne de Longwy as the daughter of Clemence de Foix, daughter of
Bernard Roger, Count of Conserans & Bigorre -- but no father of Etienne
listed. Is there any certainty regarding Clemence as her mother?
Georgia Fleming
Hyac...@frost.snowhill.com
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> I have Etienne de Longwy as the daughter of Clemence de Foix, daughter of
> Bernard Roger, Count of Conserans & Bigorre -- but no father of Etienne
> listed. Is there any certainty regarding Clemence as her mother?
>
For some reason your source has chosen only to show half of the
information, because the Clemence of Foix is a hypothetical construct of
Vajay's from the same article that identifies her Longwy father. The
argument for this lineage is in the name Clemence. This name seems to
appear in a clustering among Stephanie/Etiennette's descendants, while
it also appears among the Bigorre/Foix/Carcassonne family. This, and
the attested kinship with the Dukes of Burgundy, which seem to descend
from the Barcelona counts (who descend from Bernard Roger's sister) led
Vajay to suggest that she was Bernard Roger's daughter, and was named
Clemence (a name oddly missing from that generation). However good he
is at it, much of Vajay's work is hypothetical, and tends to be given
too much weight.
taf
svbj...@online.no
of Burgundy also supposed to have been married to (or been the mistress of?)
Garcia Sanchez? (See: GEN-MEDIEVAL Archives, Re: The Sancho sons of Garcia IV,
2. Dec. 1996 and Re: Two William of Evreaux? 5. Dec. 1995, both written by Tod.
A. Farmerie. The last showing Estephania as a daughter of Bernard Roger (of
Bigorre?). Or is this a quite different Stephanie?
Svein Arnolf Bjorndal
Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
Eric Kniffin
joe...@gmail.com
> I guess no new information on Stephanie/Etiennette has come to light in the last couple decades. William was a fairly big deal, from important families, so I imagine she was been from a fairly important family, herself. Sad that whatever records have been lost in the intervening thousand years. Lol
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tiennette_de_Bourgogne
Joe Cook
Peter Stewart
unwarranted assumptions in common, including that the byname 'Borrel' in
the ducal family of Burgundy must come from hereditary onomastics.
However, Borrel was used as a virtual surname by the lords of Courtalain
in the Dunois, with no reason to suppose this was due to Mediterranean
antecedents.
Ernest Petit suggested that the byname came from having red hair,
linking it etymologically to Borot, Boreau, Beurot that are derived from
the same meaning.
But nothing can spoil the games of some genealogists, who love to play
with permutations in the echo chamber of a theory of onomastics where
every name occurrence that suits a conjecture is taken as reinforcing
their preconceived notion, while any other consideration is blithely
ignored.
Peter Stewart
Eric Kniffin
:D