Royal descent of Joan Lewknor, mother of Alice Goodere (nee Frowick)

Rosie Bevan

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Jul 29, 2001, 6:45:28 AM7/29/01

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This may be of interest of those with Goodere, Wilmer, Thornton, Underhill,
Washington descent as posted by Robert O'Connor on 6 May 2000 under Wilmer
of Ryton. It has been previously assumed that Joan Lewknor was daughter of
Sir Thomas Lewknor and Philippa Dalyngrigge, but some recent research
indicates that she was actually daughter and heir of Dame Elizabeth Lewknor,
nee Echingham.

1.Henry III d.1272= Eleanor of Provence d.1291 [CP V 736]

2.Edmund Plantagenet d. 1244/45= Blanche of Artois d.1302 [CP I 244]

3.Henry Plantagenet d. 1345=Maud de Chaworth [CP I 244 ; II 61 ; VII, 156]

4.Eleanor Plantagenet d.1372=(3) Richard FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel d.1376
[CP I 243-244]

5.Sir John FitzAlan, Lord Arundel d.1379=Eleanor Maltravers d 1404/05
[CP I 253, 259 ;VIII 585 ;XI 102-103]

6.Joan FitzAlan d. 1 Sept 1404 =(2) Sir William Echingham d. 20 March 1412
[The Genealogist n.s. XXI 244-246] Visitations of Sussex [Harleian 53:155]

7.Elizabeth Echingham d 1464=(1)as 2nd wife to Sir Thomas Hoo d. 1420 (2)as
3rd wife to Sir Thomas Lewknor d.1452
[CP VI 567 ,
The Genealogist v.21 p247 ref. the will of Sir Thomas Echingham where Dame
Elizabeth Lewknor is mentioned as his sister and Lady Joan his mother]
VCH Sussex sub Wartling, p. 138
Sussex Arch. Coll. v.viii p.107]

8.Joan Lewknor d.aft. 1464 married c. 1442=Henry Frowick of Old Fold Manor,
South Mimms d. bef. 1464
[F.Cass, The Parish of South Mimms. 1877, p.36 citing the will of Dame
Elizabeth Lewknor PCC Godyn 8 1464 in which she appoints her daughter Joan
Frowick to be her executrix and sole legatee
VCH Middlesex, v.2 p.283 citing Middlesex Pedigrees edited by R. Mundy,
p.90]

9.Thomas Frowick of Old Fold Manor, South Mimms d.1485=Eleanor Throckmorton
9.Elizabeth Frowick=Henry Basset of Essex
9.Alice Frowick=John Goodere
9.Joan Frowick=Slyfield of Surrey
[F.Cass The Parish of South Mimms, 1877 pedigree of the Frowick family p.94]

I would welcome any comments.

Cheers

Rosie

Ian Cairns

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Jul 29, 2001, 7:20:32 AM7/29/01

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"Rosie Bevan" <cbe...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:01e301c1181b$a1061ac0$030a0a0a@cbevanrosie...

>
> 1.Henry III d.1272= Eleanor of Provence d.1291 [CP V 736]
>
> 2.Edmund Plantagenet d. 1244/45= Blanche of Artois d.1302 [CP I 244]

2. Edmund 'Crouchback' Plantagenet b. 1244/1245 d. 1296 = Blanche of
Artois d. 1302

I have Edmund born 16 Jan 1245 London, and died 5 Jun 1296 Bayonne,
France, bur 15 Jul 1296 Westminster Abbey - but show no sources for this
at the moment.

Ian

Robert O'Connor

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Jul 29, 2001, 12:24:57 PM7/29/01

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>
> 9.Thomas Frowick of Old Fold Manor, South Mimms d.1485=Eleanor
Throckmorton

Rosie

Does your source state the parentage of this Eleanor Throckmorton??

Robert O'Connor

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Jul 29, 2001, 12:32:29 PM7/29/01

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"Rosie Bevan" <cbe...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:01e301c1181b$a1061ac0$030a0a0a@cbevanrosie...

> This may be of interest of those with Goodere, Wilmer, Thornton,
Underhill,
> Washington descent as posted by Robert O'Connor on 6 May 2000 under Wilmer
> of Ryton.

Unfortunately (especially given your post) I have since disproved the
supposed link between this line of Wilmer and Underhill.

I am now satisfied that Margery Wylmer the wife of John Underhill,
"Gentleman", of Whitchurch, Warwickshire (Bur. 10 Sept. 1601 at Whitchurch.
Will Proved at Worc., 9 Oct. 1601) was not a daughter of William Wilmer, of
Ryton (d 1551 Will Proved at PCC 1552).

I think it likely that she was a sister of Robert Wylmer, "Yeoman", of
Wylmston, in the Parish of Whitchurch.

Thank you anyway Rosie for your post.

Robert O'Connor

Rosie Bevan

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Jul 29, 2001, 6:04:39 PM7/29/01

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Thanks for pointing out the error, Ian.

There is another amendment I would like to make and that is the death date
for Henry Frowick should read aft 1475.

Cheers

Rosie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Cairns" <ne...@cairnsfamily.org>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Royal descent of Joan Lewknor, mother of Alice Goodere (nee
Frowick)

>
> "Rosie Bevan" <cbe...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:01e301c1181b$a1061ac0$030a0a0a@cbevanrosie...
> >

> > 1.Henry III d.1272= Eleanor of Provence d.1291 [CP V 736]
> >
> > 2.Edmund Plantagenet d. 1244/45= Blanche of Artois d.1302 [CP I 244]
>

Martin Reboul

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Jul 29, 2001, 7:06:44 PM7/29/01

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Robert O'Connor wrote:

> > 9.Thomas Frowick of Old Fold Manor, South Mimms d.1485=Eleanor
> Throckmorton

Robert
This is most fascinating! When the battle of Barnet took place
in 1471, it centred around the moated 'Old Fold Manor' on the Great
North Road..... very close to South Mimms, but more accurately Monken
Hadley. The land was owned by St Albans Abbey I believe.
The Frowkes family (various spellings) owned it at the time - the
same place and people do you reckon? The moat survives...the Frowkes and
the house are long gone alas. Have you a source for this, I'd love to
know? I'll dig mine out.....
Cheers
Martin

Rosie Bevan

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Jul 29, 2001, 9:16:14 PM7/29/01

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Thanks for the amendment Robert.

I suppose the main significance of this discovery is that George Washington
inherited Plantagenet ancestry from both his great great grandparents - Rev
Lawrence Washington and Amphyllis Twigden.

Cheers

Rosie

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert O'Connor" <rjuoc...@btinternet.com>
> To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Royal descent of Joan Lewknor, mother of Alice Goodere (nee
> Frowick)
>
>
> >
> > "Rosie Bevan" <cbe...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:01e301c1181b$a1061ac0$030a0a0a@cbevanrosie...

Rosie Bevan

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Jul 29, 2001, 10:42:43 PM7/29/01

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Thanks for pointing out the error, Ian.

There is another amendment I would like to make and that is the death date
for Henry Frowick should read aft 1475.

Cheers

Rosie
----- Original Message -----

From: "Ian Cairns" <ne...@cairnsfamily.org>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:20 PM

Subject: Re: Royal descent of Joan Lewknor, mother of Alice Goodere (nee
Frowick)

>
> "Rosie Bevan" <cbe...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:01e301c1181b$a1061ac0$030a0a0a@cbevanrosie...
> >

> > 1.Henry III d.1272= Eleanor of Provence d.1291 [CP V 736]
> >
> > 2.Edmund Plantagenet d. 1244/45= Blanche of Artois d.1302 [CP I 244]
>

John Higgins

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Jul 29, 2001, 11:14:02 PM7/29/01

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Rosie:

I'm curious if the Frowick pedigree that you cite can help me make sense of
some pedigree fragments that I have for this family (with different
spellings of the surname) from some not very complete (or reliable) sources.
they are as follows:

1. Sir Thomas Frowick (d. 17 Dec 1505), m. Elizabeth Barnefelde
their daughter Frideswalde m. Sir Thomas Cheney (or Cheyney) (d. 1558)

2. Thomas Frowicke, was father of Isabel who m. Thomas Hawte or Haute

3. Thomas Frowyck, said to be of Shelvingbourne, Bishopsbourne, Kent
his son Henry m. Joan Danvers (parents not known to me)
the dau. of Henry and Joan, Margaret (d. 1562) m. Sir Michael Fisher
of Elstow,
Bedfordshire (d. 1548)

4. Henry Frowick of South Mimms, was father of Elizabeth who m. Roger
Appleton of
Dartford, Kent

Is it possible that one or more of these Thomases (or the one in your
pedigree) are the same person? I'd be interested in any ancestry (and
spouses) that you (or anyone else) can provide for these fragments.

Thanks in advance for any help....

John Higgins
jthi...@surfree.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosie Bevan [mailto:cbe...@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 3:46 AM
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Royal descent of Joan Lewknor, mother of Alice Goodere (nee
> Frowick)
>
>

Rosie Bevan

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Jul 30, 2001, 12:27:22 AM7/30/01

to

Thanks for the amendment Robert.

I suppose the main significance of this discovery is that George Washington
inherited Plantagenet ancestry from both his great great grandparents - Rev
Lawrence Washington and Amphyllis Twigden.

Cheers

Rosie
----- Original Message -----

From: "Robert O'Connor" <rjuoc...@btinternet.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:32 AM

Subject: Re: Royal descent of Joan Lewknor, mother of Alice Goodere (nee
Frowick)

>

> "Rosie Bevan" <cbe...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:01e301c1181b$a1061ac0$030a0a0a@cbevanrosie...

> > This may be of interest of those with Goodere, Wilmer, Thornton,
> Underhill,
> > Washington descent as posted by Robert O'Connor on 6 May 2000 under
Wilmer
> > of Ryton.
>

Rosie Bevan

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Jul 30, 2001, 1:08:38 AM7/30/01

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Hi John

This is what I have for the immediate family

1.Sir Thomas Frowick of Gunnersbury d.1485
+ Joan Sturgeon, da of Richard and Joan Sturgeon
2.Sir Henry Frowick
+Joan Danvers
+Margaret Leigh
2.Sir Thomas Frowick Chief Justice of the Common Pleas d.1506
+ Joan Bardville
+ Elizabeth (Barnefeld?) married 2nd Thomas Jakys
3.Frideswide Frowick
+ Sir Thomas Cheney
2. Isabella Frowick
+ Sir Thomas Hawte
2. Elizabeth Frowick
+ Thomas Bledlow Sheriff of London & Middlesex d 1478.

I am under the impression that Sir Henry Frowick died s.p. but I could be
wrong. I'm afraid I'm not famililiar with the Frowick/Appleton marriage but
will check it out for you this week.

My recommendation (as was Kevan's to me - thank Kevan!) is that if you are
interested in this family is to look at a copy of "The Parish of South
Mimms" by Frederick Cass, 1887. It is available on microfilm at a LDS FHC.

This book treats the whole Frowick family very comprehensively, with an
abundance of primary sources, quoting charters, wills etc.

Cheers

Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Higgins" <jthi...@surfree.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>

John Steele Gordon

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Jul 30, 2001, 7:19:13 AM7/30/01

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"John Higgins" <jthi...@surfree.com> wrote in message
news:000101c118a5$0d485840$264b1c26@oemcomputer...

> Rosie:
>
> I'm curious if the Frowick pedigree that you cite can help me make sense
of
> some pedigree fragments that I have for this family (with different
> spellings of the surname) from some not very complete (or reliable)
sources.
> they are as follows:
>
> 1. Sir Thomas Frowick (d. 17 Dec 1505), m. Elizabeth Barnefelde
> their daughter Frideswalde m. Sir Thomas Cheney (or Cheyney) (d.
1558)
>
> 2. Thomas Frowicke, was father of Isabel who m. Thomas Hawte or Haute

The Isabel Frowicke who married Thomas Haute was the daughter of Thomas
Frowicke (abt 1423-1485) and Joan Sturgeon. His father was Henry Frowicke
(1380-1459), Lord Mayor of London. His mother was Isabel ----------.

These people are ancestral to Anne Lovelace, immigrant to Virginia.

You can see what I have at

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jsgordon/Pedigree/index.htm

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jsgordon/Bookform/index.htm

JSG

John Higgins

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Jul 30, 2001, 12:41:22 PM7/30/01

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My thanks to Rosie and to JSG for their help on this family. I will make a
note to check out the LDS film that Rosie cited.

Rosie: The Frowick/Appleton marriage I mentioned is cited in Plantagenet
Ancestry, 2nd ed., p. 4.

pararesc...@gmail.com

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Jan 26, 2020, 8:30:32 PM1/26/20

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HI Rosie!
I'm interested in your # 9 listing of Alice Frowick (1450-1519) marrying John Goodyere. I am finding nothing about Alice so any information you would be willing to share is a benefit.
I anxiously await your reply ...

Karen