Beli Mawr, King of Britain 55 B.C.
U...@aol.com
at the College of Arms in London:
1. Beli "The Great" King of Britain
2. Amalech
3. Avallach
4. Owain
5. Brychwain
6. Dunwg
7. Amwedd
8. Amwerydd
9. Gwrddofyn
10. Dofn
11. Gwrddoli
12. Doli
13. Gwrgain
14. Gain
15. Genedawc
16. Iago
17. Tegid
18. Padarn Paisrudd
19. Edeym
20. Cynneda Weidig
21. Einion Yrth
22. Elyd Merine
23. Caradoc Vreichvras
24. Caradoc
25. Kay Prkawrdraff
26. Kaw ap Kay
27. Gloyw ap Kaw
28. Hoyow ap Gloyw
29. Kynvarch ap Hoyow
30. Kyndeg ap Kynvarch
31. Taythwalch ap Kyndeg
32. Tegyt ap Taythwalch
33. Amherad ap Tegyt
34. Gungydd ap Amherad
35. Hydd ap Gungydd
36. Druffyn ap Hydd
37. Maynerch, Lord of Brecknock
38. Blethyn ap Maynerch
39. Gwrgan ap Blethyn=Gwenllian verch Gwys
40. Cadivor ap Gwrgan=Waud verch Wychan
41. Griffith Awyr=Catherine Finion
42. Griffith ap Griffith=Jane Mounton
43. Howell Vaughn=Catherine Llwyd
44. Gwilliam Gam=Venll Jevan
45. Hewell Malyn=Catherine Voythys
46. Jevan Gwyr
47. Jenkyn ap Jevan=Joan Vaughan
48. Owen ap Jenkyn=Alice
49. Griffith ap Owen=Anne Bury
50. Philip Bowen=Elizabeth Vaughn
51. Francis Bowen
52. Griffith Bowen of Boston
Always optimistic, except about this line, --Dave
William Addams Reitwiesner
>Could someone please comment on the validity of the following line deposited
>at the College of Arms in London:
It's pretty entertaining, I'll give it that. As for validity, well ...
Ignoring spelling variations, and a couple of dropped generations here and
there, the generations from about 36 (Dryffin) to 49 (Griffith and Anne)
can be found in Bartrum's *Welsh Genealogies*, with Griffith and Anne
appearing on table "Bleddyn ap Maenyrch 33 (D 1)". See also Gary Boyd
Roberts, *The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants* [Baltimore: Genealogical,
1993], p. 387, where the Royal descent goes through Alice, wife of number
48.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."
Stewart Baldwin
>Could someone please comment on the validity of the following line deposited
>at the College of Arms in London:
>1. Beli "The Great" King of Britain
>Always optimistic, except about this line, --Dave
Beli Mawr is fictional, as are very many of the following generations.
This pedigree reeks of late medieval fakery. Although some of the
later generation might be true, I would not be inclined to trust any
of it until verified in primary records.
Stewart Baldwin
Jared L Olar
Baldwin) writes:
>Beli Mawr is fictional, as are very many of the following generations.
>This pedigree reeks of late medieval fakery. Although some of the
>later generation might be true, I would not be inclined to trust any
>of it until verified in primary records.
>
>Stewart Baldwin
As I recall, the two lineages from Beli Mawr to Cunedda Wledig and from
Beli Mawr to Coel Hen (Coel Guotepauc) appear in documents from the 800s
and 900s (along with the silliness, discussed here recently, about Beli's
mother/wife Anna being a cousin of the Virgin Mary). Traditional,
legendary, and just plain fictional elements were no doubt mixed together
to construct these pedigrees. As a whole the Bowen line given dates from
the Renaissance, but the first section of it appears relatively early on.
Yours,
Jared
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Stewart Baldwin
>On Sat, 09 Jan 1999 17:42:55 GMT sb...@auburn.campus.mci.net (Stewart
>Baldwin) writes:
>>Beli Mawr is fictional, as are very many of the following generations.
>>This pedigree reeks of late medieval fakery. Although some of the
>>later generation might be true, I would not be inclined to trust any
>>of it until verified in primary records.
>As I recall, the two lineages from Beli Mawr to Cunedda Wledig and from
>Beli Mawr to Coel Hen (Coel Guotepauc) appear in documents from the 800s
>and 900s (along with the silliness, discussed here recently, about Beli's
>mother/wife Anna being a cousin of the Virgin Mary). Traditional,
>legendary, and just plain fictional elements were no doubt mixed together
>to construct these pedigrees. As a whole the Bowen line given dates from
>the Renaissance, but the first section of it appears relatively early on.
It is true that quite a few of these names appear in the earliest
pedigree of Cunedda from Harleian MS. 3859 (a manuscript of ca. 1100
copied from a 10th century source), and that the first 19 generations
of the posted pedigree are somewhat similar to the first genealogy of
the Harleian collection. However, these early generations of the
genealogy are much more closely related to the significantly different
genealogy of Cunedda in Jesus College MS. 20 (middle of the 14th
century, probably a bad copy of an original compsed ca. 1200), and a
good part of the middle part of the genealogy is apparently creative
work of an even later period. Thus, even though the genealogy can be
said to contain a garbled version of some tenth century fakery, and
even some genuinely historical names in the later generations, it has
not been faithful to the earliest known version of Cunedda's pedigree,
and as a whole it appears to be a late medieval product.
Stewart Baldwin
Jared L Olar
Baldwin) writes:
[snip]
>Thus, even though the genealogy can be said to contain a garbled
>version of some tenth century fakery, and even some genuinely
>historical names in the later generations, it has not been faithful
>to the earliest known version of Cunedda's pedigree,
>and as a whole it appears to be a late medieval product.
>
>Stewart Baldwin
Ah, I see your point, and agree completely.
Erols
Dictionary of Dark Age Britain, but you can find a descent from Lt.
Griffith Bowen in: Living Descendants of Royal Blood, by Adams, vols. 1 and
4; Royal Ancestors of American Families by Call; and Roberts' Royal
Descents of 500 Americans, see also Crozier's General Armory.
Bowen, "gentleman and Puritan," came to MA ca. 1638 from Glamorganshire.
B orn ca. 1600, died ca. 1675, in 1627 married Margaret Fleming.
sometimes optimism actually pays off... and sometimes contributors
to the infamous WFT actually stumble upon solid research.
cheers, Judith Sanders