Ancestry Of John Bowne Of Flushing

[peter...@yahoo.ca]

Is there any truth to the claim that the Bowne House Historical Society makes that John Bowne of Flushing, New York, could trace his descent back to William The Conqueror's time and that the family was connected to many powerful and titled families? I've tried looking under different variations of the name and haven't been able to come up with anything. It seems to me this is another case of wishful thinking.

Peter D. A. Warwick

[Vance Mead]

I just did a quick search of Common Pleas records, 15th-16th century, and all the Bowns were maltman, husbandman, sherman, and the like. There's a wider range for Bowen, but also a lot of laborers. So I'd say wishful thinking.

[al...@mindspring.com]

Wikipedia has this on him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowne which says he was born in Matlock, Derbyshire..

Doug Smith

[al...@mindspring.com]

Also these two references:

Robert Charles Anderson, The Winthrop Fleet, NEHGS, 2012, pps 301-306. http://www.americanancestors.org/PageDetail.aspx?recordId=265131070.

I have not seen anything further on his ancestry other than he was said to be son of one Thomas Bowne.


Doug Smith

[al...@mindspring.com]

Some alleged ancestry here, I have not had time to investigate but it does not appear to give much sourcing.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=rad1003&id=I4417

[peter...@yahoo.ca]

I've seen the Wikipedia article on John Bowne and other sources and am aware he is from Matlock, Derbyshire, England.

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

Thomas Bowne's father is listed as Anthony here,

https://books.google.com/books?id=klg3AAAAMAAJ&q=%22thomas+bowne,+son+of+Anthony%22&dq=%22thomas+bowne,+son+of+Anthony%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwii7t6h9K_MAhXLHD4KHcKBBsUQ6AEIHzAA

This book is available on ancestry.com

[al...@mindspring.com]

The website I posted earlier shows that Anthony thus:

Father: Anthony Bowne b: ABT 1506 in Lime Tree Farm, Matlock, Derby, England
Mother: Alice Gage b: ABT 1519 in Matlock, Derby, England

Marriage 1 Alice or Ales Radcliffe b: 1542 in of Matlock, Derbyshire, England

Married: ABT 1578 in Matlock, Derby, England

Children

Has No Children John Bowne b: ABT 1580
Has No Children Elizabeth Bowne b: ABT 1583
Has No Children Ralph Bowne b: ABT 1593 in Lime Tree Farm, Matlock, Derbyshire, England
Has Children William Bowne b: ABT 1590 in York, England; of Long Island, New York
Has Children Thomas Bowne b: 25 May 1595 in Matlock, Derbyshire, England c: 25 Jul 1595 in Matlock, Derby, England

which is apparently from LDS ancestral file

Past the Anthony you show the ancestry appears rather cobbled together since the the Anthony m. Alice [sic] Radcliffe it is tied into is the 1st Viscount Montagu. The Anthony that was father of Thomas of Matlock was not Viscount Montagu.

I think Vance is right and these Bowne's were not nobility and that the link (unless another can be found) is wishful thinking.

Doug Smith

[peter...@yahoo.ca]

I've come across this too. Thomas Bowne and Mary - were John's parents and Anthony Bowne was his grandfather. There is evidence for this. While I tend to agree that the connection with the aristocratic Bownes is wishful thinking it cannot be entirely dismissed. Here's a link to the pedigree in the Warwickshire Visitation, which has a branch of the Bowne's/Boun's/Bohun's in Bakewell, Derbyshire. In the will of Thomas, which I haven't been able to locate, which was probated in 1675 in Flushing, New York, property called "Pellet Holme" is left to his son John. It is stated that there is a place there called "The Holme" or Hulme. So it could very well be that John Bowne does in fact descend from the aristocratic Bouns or Bohuns. Finding Thomas's will would be a big start towards resolving this issue.

Peter D. A. Warwick

[peter...@yahoo.ca]

I've discovered some more secondary sources that suggest the genealogy is definitely good back to Anthony and that the family MAY and I stress MAY be connected to the aristocratic family.

Peter D. A. Wariwck

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

It might be worthwhile to get in touch with The New York Genealogical and Biographical Society (Facebook link below). It's likely that organization would be aware of anyone who's currently looking into this or has in the past. They've never published anything on John Bowne's ancestry, but that's not to say they wouldn't be aware of research efforts. That said, I don't have any experience submitting questions, so I don't know whether they're answered (maybe just some, based on "degree of difficulty"). John Blythe Dobson of the NYGBS Editorial Board has posted here in the past.

https://www.facebook.com/nyfamilyhistory/

[Jan Wolfe]

See https://books.google.com/books?id=gp5NAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA208&dq=Bowne and https://books.google.com/books?id=gp5NAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA27&dq=Bowne for records of people named Bowne in Matlock and Holme in the 15th and 16th centuries.

A Bowne was a witness in 1344 in Bakewell, Derbyshire, http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/96fdcfb2-97a3-4cfd-bb47-eac0d5e8621d.

[Vance Mead]

Here is a Roger Bowne, of Matloke, Derbs, husbandman, in 1508:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H7/CP40no983/bCP40no983dorses/IMG_0343.htm

Hilary 1508 d 343, 2nd entry
Derbs. Richard Seddow versus Roger Bowne, of Matloke, husbandman, and others.

[Vance Mead]

Her are a couple more in the same area:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1023/aCP40no1023fronts/IMG_0070.htm
Hilary 1519, f 70, 3rd entry:

Derbs, Thomas Babyngton, esq, versus Edward Bown, of Bonsale, yeoman


http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1023/aCP40no1023fronts/IMG_0069.htm
1519 f 69, 1st entry:

Derbs. Thomas Eyre, esq, versus Richard Bowne, of Bakewell, husbandman

[Vance Mead]

These are the Bowns or Bownes found in common pleas, 1500-1554, in Derbyshire. Possible some of the William Bowns are the same person; Edward Bown in 1519 and Edward Bowne in 1554 are unlikely to be the same person, but they could be father and son.

Roger Bowne, of Matlock, husbandman, 1508 & 1514
Edward Bown, of Bonsall, yeoman, 1519
Richard Bowne, of Bakewell, husbandman, 1519
William Bowne, land at Aisshford (Ashford in the Water?), 1521
William Bowne, land at Bakewell, 1527
William Bowne, of Holme, yeoman, 1545
William Bowne, of Bonsall, yeoman, 1546
Edward Bowne, of Bonsall, gentleman, 1554


1508, hilary, d 343
Derbs. Seddowe, Richard, versus Bowne, Roger, of Matloke, husbandman; Stere, Edward, of Farley, husbandman; Spateman, Edward, of Matloke, husbandman. Debt
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H7/CP40no983/bCP40no983dorses/IMG_0343.htm

1514, hilary, f 371
Derbs. Marshall, Robert versus Pyecok or Pydcok, William, of Meslege, Derley in le Peke, husbandman; Mowbrey, John, of Bonsale, husbandman; Bown, Roger, of Matloke, husbandman; Southam, Henry, of Horseley, husbandman; Stephen, Hugh, of Horseley, husbandman; Calton, Robert, of Duffeld, husbandman. Debt.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1005B/aCP40no1005Bfronts/IMG_0371.htm

1519, hilary, f 70
Derbs. Babyngton, Thomas, esq, versus Bown, Edward, of Bonsale, yeoman­. Debt
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1023/aCP40no1023fronts/IMG_0070.htm

1519, hilary, f 69
Derbs. Eyre or Gyre, Thomas, esq, versus Sey, Richard, of Bakewell, smith; Bowne, Richard, of Bakewell, husbandman. Debt
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1023/aCP40no1023fronts/IMG_0069.htm

1521, hilary, d 112
Derbs. Bown, William versus Lees, Roger, of Blakewell, husbandman; Grevys, Robert, of Aisshford, husbandman; Lowe, Robert, of Monyasshe, laborer, Trespass: close at Aysshford.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/H8/CP40no1031/bCP40no1031dorses/IMG_0112.htm

1527, Trinity, f 121
Derbs. Bowne, William versus Newton, John, of Holme, Bakewell, husbandman; James, Ralph, of Holme, Bakewell, husbandman; Heyward, Henry, of Byrchehyll, Bakewell, husbandman; Marple, Richard, of Bakewell, husbandman; Herryson, Thomas, of Bakewell, husbandman. Trespass: close at Bakewell.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/H8/CP40no1055/aCP40no1055fronts/IMG_0121.htm

1545, hilary, d 2227
Derbs. Neville, Ralph, earl of Westmorland, versus Bown, William, of Holme, yeoman. Debt.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/aalt1/H8/CP40no1124/bCP40no1124dorses/IMG_2227.htm

1546, hilary, f 1119
Derbs. Foliambe, Godfrey, esq versus Adams, William, of Bonteshall, husbandman; Bowne, William, of Bonteshall, husbandman; Greves, John, of Bonteshall, husbandman; Bateman, John, of Bonteshall, husbandman; Barker, Thomas, of Bonteshall, husbandman. Trespass: close.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/aalt1/H8/CP40no1127/aCP40no1127fronts/IMG_1119.htm

1554, d 1025
London, Leek, Francis, knight, versus Bowne, Edward, of Bonsall, Derbs, gent. debt.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/M/CP40no1157/bCP40no1157dorses/IMG_1025.htm

[al...@mindspring.com]

An interesting post:

From: "gbowne" <gbo...@email.msn.com>
Subject: Fw: [DBY] Some BOWNE Refs in Derbyshire England
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:13:19 -0800

For any questions:
gbo...@email.msn.com
Audrey C. Bowne
Seattle


>I am researching the surname BOWNE worldwide
>1400s to present

Here are five groups of BOWNE references from various Derbyshire
books, covering the period from the 15th century onwards, which may be
of interest to Audrey and anyone else with BOWNE ancestors.

1. BOWNE IN HEARTH TAX, 1662-70
From: "Derbyshire Hearth Tax Assessments", ed David Edwards, Derbs
Record Soc, Vol 7, 1982:-

At Yeldersley, Appletree Hundred, 1664, p.30:-
- John BOWNE - 1 hearth (not chargeable)
At Monyash, High Peak Hundred, 1670, p.35:-
- Richard BOWNE - 1 hearth
- Thomas BOWNE - 1 hearth
At Clifton and Compton, Morleston and Litchurch Hundred, in 1670,
p.82:-
- George ?BOWNE (?Bourne) - 1 hearth
At Chesterfield, Scarsdale Hundred, in 1670, p.138:-
- Ralph BOWNE - 2 hearths
At Stretton, Scarsdale Hundred, in 1670, p.173:-
- John BOWNE - 1 hearth
At Ashbourne, Wirksworth Hundred, in 1670, p.179:-
- George BOWNE - 1 hearth
At Bonsall, Wirksworth Hundred, in 1670, p.185:-
- Henry BOWNE - 1 hearth
- George BOWNE - 4 hearths [larger house]
At Matlock, Wirksworth Hundred, in1670, pp.188-190:-
- Henry BOWNE - 1 hearth
- Jo. BOWNE Lin Tree - 2 hearths
- Anthony BOWNE - 1 hearth
- Henry BOWNE Jun - 1 hearth
- Thomas BOWNE - 1 hearth
- Adam BOWNE - 1 hearth
[Note: "Jo" (John?) and Anthony were listed next to each other, so
probably neighbours and likely to be related. Henry was only two
doors before "Jo". Thomas and Adam were also listed one after the
other and therefore probably nextdoor to each other as well.]
At Kniveton, Offcote and Underwood, Wirksworth Hundred, in 1670,
p.195:-
- Dorothy BOWNE (retired) - 1 hearth
_____________________________________

2. BOWNE "VOLUNTARY PRESENTS" IN 1661
From: "The Free and Voluntary Present 1661 Derbyshire", by David
Clay, Derbs Family History Society, 1992:-

At Monyash, High Peak Hundred, 1661, p.14:-
- Richard BOWNE, Oarbuyer [Orebuyer?], 1 shilling
At Chesterfield, Scarsdale Hundred, 1661, p.27:-
- Godfrey BOWNE, Glover, 2 shillings
At Bonsall, Wirksworth Hundred, 1661, p.62:-
- George BOWNE, 2 shillings
At Matlock, Wirksworth Hundred, 1661, p.65:-
- John BOWNE Sen, 2 shillings
- Henry BOWNE, 8 shillings
- Anthony BOWNE de Lyntree, 2 shillings
- Raph BOWNE, 2 shillings and 6 pence
- Anthony BOWNE Sen, 2 shillings

Note: These were "voluntary donations" from anyone who could afford
it, to help the depleted resources of the central purse at the
Restoration of the Monarchy following the Cromwellian period.
______________________________________

3. BOWNE IN GENTRY QUARRELS, 1463 and 1468
From: "The Derbyshire Gentry in the 15th Century", by Susan M.
Wright, Derbs Record Soc, Vol 8, 1983, pp.138/9, in a chapter headed
"Law and Order in a Gentry Society" - Christopher BOWN of Bakewell
became involved in VERNON family quarrels in the 1460s.

In the period after 1461 the actions of the crown were a significant
factor in Derbyshire politics ..... The VERNON's exclusion from
political life and thus from many opportunities of manipulating
justice seems to have resulted in their greater recourse to force,
largely carried out under the direction of Henry VERNON, William's
heir apparent ......

The VERNONS reopened their old quarrel with STRELLEY in 1460 and this
dispute was still active in 1472 .... Their 2nd quarrel was with John
FITZHERBERT .... two murders followed in 1467-8 ..... Henry
VERNON's 3rd quarrel was with the Vernon's old rival, GREY of Codnor.
In December 1467, men of Codnor murdered VERNON's uncle Roger at
Belper; one murderer (Bartholomew DAVENPORT) was described as a
household servant of Henry Lord GREY in 1471 ..... On 23 February
immediately prior to the 'oyer and terminer' hearing [of April 1468],
SHREWSBURY distributed his livery at Bakewell to 22 men, including
..... **Christopher BOWN of Bakewell, one of those leading the attack
on STRELLEY in 1463** .......
_______________________________________

4. BOWN PROPERTY AT MATLOCK, 1503
From: "Derbyshire Feet of Fines 1323-1546", by H.J.H. Garratt, Derbs
Record Soc, Vol 11, 1985.p.102:-

No.1169. The morrow of Martinmas 1503. Plaintiff: Edward MATHER.
Defendant: Edward BOWN and Alice his wife. Concerning one messuage,
30 acres land and 1 acre meadow in Mattelok and Hasker. Edward Mather
had these of the gift of Edward and Alice BOWN, who remised and
quitclaimed of, and warranted for, themselves and the heirs of Alice
to Edward Mather and his heirs. Edward Mather gave [illegible] marks
of silver.
______________________________________

5. BOWN REFS IN DERBYSHIRE ARCHAEOLOGICAL JOURNALS
From: Journals of the Derbyshire Archaeological and Natural History
Society.

Vol 6, 1884: Vills and Freeholders of Derbyshire 1633, by S.O. Addy.
p.58, Matlock:-
- BOWNE, Anthonius [Anthony] (Matlock,1633)
- BOWNE, Georgius [George] (Matlock, 1633)

Vol 12, 1890: Belper Regiment - Grenadiers, by J. Charles Cox.
p.100, Names of the Officers and Noncommissioned Officers of the
Belper Regiment of Local Militia 1813:-
- 3rd Battalion Company - Ensign BOWNE (1813)

Vol 15, 1893: Illustrations of ancient Place-names in Bakewell and
the Vicinity, from original Archives preserved at Haddon Hall, and
from other sources, by W.A. Carrington.
p.39, temp 21 Hen VII (1505) - Grant by Thomas HARYSON de
Bakewell, to William his son, of a burgage, with its appurtenances,
and two acres of land in the vill. of Bakewell ........ Witnesses:
Richard BOWNE (and others).

Vol 15, 1893: The Derby Company of Mercers, by H. Arnold-Bemrose.
[Note: Mercers were dealers in expensive fabrics, such as silks, etc]
p.156, List of Wardens: 1727, John BOWN (and one other).

Vol 17, 1895: Muster for Spanish Invasion: Papers relating to
Derbyshire Musters temp. Queen Elizabeth, comprising the Muster Roll
for the whole county made in 1587 in expectation of the Spanish
Invasion; from the original documents preserved at Belvoir, by W.A.
Carrington.
p.14, Matlock: George BOWNE, with corslet, or breastplate (1587)
p.23, Chesterfield: William BOWNE, also with corslet (1587)

Vol 21, 1899: The Autobiography of Leonard WHEATCROFT of Ashover,
with notes by Rev Charles Kerry.
p.56: "June 10, 1708 - Being the Visitation at Chesterfield,
there I light on a young woman who came to the Visitation to be
confirmed by the Bishop, called Anne BOWNE, at which time I fell in
love with her, and courted her till Michaelmas, and we were three
severall Lord's days or hollidays published [marriage banns] in
Matlock Church and Ashover Church, and nothing was objected against
us, but that we might lawfully proceed to marriage, the which wee did,
being Oct. 7, 1708.
"It pleased God that my wife conceived by me, and had a very
sore labour, and on Wednesday, the 29 June, 1709, she was brought to
bed of a daughter, and it was baptized on the 30 July, and I called
her name Hannah. ..............
"March 4, 1712 - my daughter Martha was borne, and baptized
April 6, 1713. Her godfathers were Henry BOWNE and Richard ATKIN [the
singing master], and the godmothers, Anne BOTHAM and Mary YATES.

p.57: "Ann, daughter to William BOWNE and Elizabeth, his wife, was
borne Feb 23, 1680, and was baptized Mar 6, 1680."
[Note: This latter entry, out of date with the others, is between
entries for Nov 1714 and Candlemas Day 1714/15, ie 2nd Feb 1715]

Vol 21, 1899: Ayd to His Majesty King Charles I, 1627, Hundred of
Appletree and Wapentake of Wirksworth, by Rev R. Jowett Burton.
p.80: Wirksworth Wapentake, Matlock:-
- widowe BOWNE - 40 shillings (1627)
- Jhon BOWNE - 40 shillings (1627)
[Note: The Crown is again needing money for Government coffers!]



Another reference:

The Fields of Sowerby Near Halifax, England, and of Flushing, New York: With ..., Osgood Field, p 115 at https://books.google.com/books?id=6xwwAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=Thomas+Bowne+Flushing+will&source=bl&ots=ffbVSjIC5P&sig=lqTOrVz5fdDpwBpjyyQuCScdKvw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFouGnn7HMAhVMcj4KHRoHBOYQ6AEIKzAD#v=onepage&q=Thomas%20Bowne%20Flushing%20will&f=false.

Doug Smith

[al...@mindspring.com]

See The New England Historical and Genealogical Register, Volume 56, pps 312 -315 at https://books.google.com/books?id=WrQzEqQMpNcC&pg=PA315&lpg=PA315&dq=edward+bowne+alice+matlock&source=bl&ots=vYNWKfWNVs&sig=Q5Ge41qAt7Z-j60tlNu_57PCCys&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis_ujrsLLMAhXIeD4KHbtJDrQQ6AEIKDAC#v=onepage&q=edward%20bowne%20alice%20matlock&f=false. References to numerous Flints, Bownes, an Anthony Boone in Matlock.

Thoroton covered his wife's family of Boun in

Thoroton, Antiquities of Nottinghamshire, Vol. 2, pps 124-133.

I do not seen a direct connection to Anthony there. There appear to have been numerous Boun/Bowne families in Derbyshire at that time and some of them may be related if enough ipms are examined.

Doug Smith

[nathan...@gmail.com]

Ince's Pedigrees (compiled 1824-1860) includes reference to the New Yorker's Matlock, Derbys. origin: http://wirksworth.org.uk/INC-040.htm#042c

There are several other Bown(e) pedigrees in Ince's work: http://wirksworth.org.uk/INC-X1.htm#B

A number of Matlock/Wirksworth sources are transcribed on this One-Place Study website: http://wirksworth.org.uk/Menu.htm

Nathan

[nathan...@gmail.com]

> A number of Matlock/Wirksworth sources are transcribed on this One-Place Study website: http://wirksworth.org.uk/Menu.htm

And here is a One-Place Study dedicated specifically to Matlock, which I am less familiar with, but might prove useful: http://www.andrewsgen.com/matlock/index.htm

Nathan

[Jan Wolfe]

The Bowne House website states that "the Bownes of England could trace their ancestry back to William the Conqueror's time and were connected to many titled and powerful families." It doesn't specifically state that John Bowne of Matlock and Flushing could trace his ancestry back to the time of William the Conqueror. I sent an email to the contact address on the website asking whether the statement means that John Bowne could trace his ancestry back to the time of William the Conqueror or that some other Bowne families of England could do so.

[Vance Mead]

Here are some earlier references to Bown/Boun in Common Pleas. Bankewell/Baukewell must be Bakewell.

1440. f 16
Derbs Boune, Edward, of Matlok, husbandman

1450. d 1002
Derbs, John Boun or Bonn of Bankewell or Baukewell, yeoman

1468. d 1586
Derbs. Boun, Richard, of Bankewell or Baukewell, yeoman

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

Apart from The New York Genealogical and Biographical Society perhaps being aware of who's undertaken research on possible Bowne royal ancestry, Gary Boyd Roberts at the New England Historic Genealogical Society (of "Ancestors of American Presidents" fame) would be as well, since "William Bowne, d. c.1677, Salem, Mass., Gravesend, L.I., and Middletown, N.J." is #140 in Abraham Lincoln's ancestor list. Roberts included an Edward I descent for "Abraham Lincoln Through John Norwood (only a slight possibility)" in his 2009 edition of AAP, but no mention of any possibility for William Bowne (which is not to say Bowne doesn't have gentry ancestry and/or royal descent).