Ancestry of Jane Tregian of Golden Cornwall

[Loren Varga]

Dear Group!
I am writing to ascertain if anyone would possibly have an ancestry for the above Jane Tregian wife of Edmund Bonville of Modbury.

Edmund (b.1530) was son of Humphrey Bonville and Joan Winslade and Jane a daughter of a John Tregian of Golden, Cornwall.

Thanks for any information provided.

Regards:
Loren

[Will Johnson]

Edmund who was probably not born in 1530. Where do you get this year from?

[Will Johnson]

This thread however did allow me to realize that I am missing a Cecil6 from my database
Mary Stourton eldest daughter of Charles 8th Lord Stourton by Anne Stanley
Her brother John is a Cecil5 which makes her a 6
And she married Francis Tregian, son of John Tregian by Elizabeth Arundel
So both husband and wife here, are E3 descents as well

[John Higgins]

The ODNB biography of Francis Tregian says that his mother was Katherine [not Elizabeth], daughter of Sir John Arundell [not Arundel] of Lanherne by his wife Elizabeth Danet.

As to the original question as to Jane, dau. of John Tregian and wife of Edmund Bonville, John Tregian who married Katherine Arundell was the son of another John Tregian of Golden (d. 1537) by his first wife Joan Wolveden [or Wallveden]. A short pedigree of this family in Journal of the Royal Institute of Cornwall, vol. 18 p. 108 (1911) indicates that the elder John and his wife also had two daughters, Elizabeth and Jane. Elizabeth married (as his 2nd wife) Sir Richard Edgcombe of Mount Edgcumbe (d. 1561) (and is ancestral to Princess Diana). No further information is given for Jane - and it would be only a guess to say that she was the one who married Edmund Cornwall.

[Will Johnson]

A pedigree of D'Oyly, also has a Catherine Tregeon m Robert D'Oyly of Merton (he died 1577)

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31158003400172&view=1up&seq=245&q1=tregeon

[John Higgins]

On Monday, July 26, 2021 at 11:33:51 AM UTC-7, Loren Varga wrote:

Edmund Bonville and his wife Jane Tregian appear in a pedigree of the Bonville family in Vivian's edition of the visitations of Devon. But that pedigree does not give a birth date for Edmund nor does it identify Jane's father. Checking around online, those two pieces of data appear to come from a user-submitted pedigree at ancestry.com. But the only source given for those data points in that family tree is another online pedigree at a Dutch website - which in turn shows no sources for that information.

It's probably best to discard those pieces of information from your data, as they probably can't be supported.

[Will Johnson]

One small extra piece of data. We can know that the Jane Tregion who married Edmund Bonville, had to be born in the period 1496-1541

This is because the Croker pedigree in that same source is slightly more helpful in stating that John Croker was heir to his grandfather and was "aged 25" in 1614 when this grandfather, also John Croker died.

The generation between these two Johns was Hugh Croker who m Agnes Bonville sole heiress of her father Richard who was son of this Jane Tregion.

[John Higgins]

We don't know enough about the Tregian family to say with certainty where Jane might fit in that family. We don't know how many John Tregians there might have been - of possibly different branches.

And I don't think you can say with such certainty that Jane Tregian HAD "to be born in period in the period 1496-1541". The only date you've given, which may or may not be accurate, is that John Croker (son of Hugh and Agnes Bonville) was aged 25 (i.e., born in 1589) at the death of his grandfather John in 1614. Beyond that, you're simply guessing at the length of generations in the Bonville family - which results in a pretty broad, and overly specific, range.

The same uncertainty with respect to placement in the Tregian family applies to Catherine, wife of John D'Oyly - and we have even less information on her.

[Johnny Brananas]

As far as Tregian/D'Oyley goes..., remember back in February that mark66 gave the following descent as probably correct:

2b. Elizabeth Dannett married Sir John Arundell
3. Katherine Arundell married John Tregian
4. Katherine Tregian married Robert Doyley
5. Martha Doyley married Bartholomew Tipping

This was in the Bartholomew Tipping thread. Mark also wrote: "ODNB does note that Francis Tregian's father John was of "Golden Manor, near Probus, Cornwall", which presumably is the "Gouldein" referenced in the Vis. Oxon. The estate was lost to the family with Francis Tregian's recusancy conviction in 1579.

Vivian & Drake's 1874 edition of the Visitation of Cornwall (p 275) contains some will extracts for the Arundell family which both makes it clear that Katherine Tregian nee Arundell was the daughter of Sir John and Elizabeth nee Danet (d 1564) and implies that she had other children: Elizabeth mentions "god-daughter Elizabeth Tregian" while Jane Arundell (sister of Sir John) mentioned "niece Mary Tregian":

https://archive.org/details/visitationofcoun00sain/page/274/mode/2up?q=tregian

These, together with the Vis. Oxon., seem good evidence for the descent from John Arundell & E. Grey to Martha, the wife of Bartholomew Tipping; the 1632 PCC will of Martha widow of Bartholomew Tipping names 'my fift sonne Mr Doyly Tippinge' ..."

[Johnny Brananas]

The reference in _Visitations of the County of Oxford Taken in the Years 1566 ...1574 ... 1634_ (Harleian soc. pubs., vol. 5) mentioned by Mark is p. 255 where "Robtus. Doyley de Merton in com. Oxon. obt. ao. 1577" is shown with a first wife "Catherina filia Johnis. Tregeon de Gouldein in com. Cornubiae."

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Publications_of_the_Harleian_Society/Qfk3tPvTojkC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22robtus+doyley%22+gouldein&pg=PA225&printsec=frontcover

[Johnny Brananas]

There was a William Hartwell of Northamptonshire who married Martha, daughter of John Tregian of Golden, Cornwall (per the 1564 Northamptonshire Vis.).

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitations_of_Northamptonshire_Made/wLgEAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=tregian

This Martha might be a sister of the Doyley wife who had a daughter called Martha, who married Bartholomew Tipping.

[Will Johnson]

My birth range has nothing to do with where Jane might go in the family.

We have John Bonville "aged 21" in 1491 from his father's IPM

[Will Johnson]

On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 9:21:13 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> My birth range has nothing to do with where Jane might go in the family.
>
> We have John Bonville "aged 21" in 1491 from his father's IPM

And then we have John Croker "aged 25" from his grandfather's IPM

If the Visitation is correct in where each person is placed in this pedigree from John Bonville to John Croker than Jane had to be born 1496-1541

[Will Johnson]

Actually I now think that birth range can be narrowed by consideration of this

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Journal_of_the_Royal_Institution_of_Corn/3OAKAwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=joanna%20wynslade%20bonville&pg=PA31&printsec=frontcover&bsq=joanna%20wynslade%20bonville

That apparently (in 1531) Edmund was the eldest son of four already living and born by 1531

[Will Johnson]

From this record

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7476647

We can learn the additional items
Humphrey Bonville's father John was dead by 1532
Humphrey is now of Ivybridge, and an esquire

There was a Willliam Wynslade (now dead) who married an Agnes Chichester, daughter of Richard
This William was the guardian of both the lands and the person of Humphrey, so John his father had to die while Humphrey was yet a minor

[Will Johnson]

actually one more thing

That Richard Chichester of Hall was yet living at this time, since he is also a defendent and specifically names as Agnes' father.

This William Wynslade, now dead obviously, was the father of that Joan who married Humphrey Bonville. So apparently the families were close enough prior to this, that Humphrey was made his ward

It's curious that he states that he is heir of his grandfather, not his father, since John Bonville is called the heir in the elder John's IPM. Perhaps there was some remainder that did not come directly to his father.

[Will Johnson]

Agnes by the way, who we now know married firstly to William Wynslade, and secondly to Robert Pollard (son of Lewis Pollard and Agnes Hext), is buried at Knowstone 28 Jul 1541. While her later husband Robert Pollard is buried there 26 Sep 1576

They had at least three sons, perhaps other children, so Agnes was still young enough when she married.

Agnes apparently had a much older sister (among other siblings), named Anneys who married William Stetchleigh and they are ancestral to both Princess Diana and her sister-in-law Sarah Ferguson the Duchess of York

[John Higgins]

John, thanks for reminding me of the February thread. I think the issue here is whether the D'Oyley descent is "probably correct".

In that thread, you said:
"I was going by this webpage, but it must need some work:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tregian-33 "

That Wikitree pedigree does show Katherine Tregian, wife of John D'Oyley, as the daughter of John Tregian and Katherine Arundell. But the only support it cites is a user-submitted pedigree in the Pedigree Resource File of Family Search.

I think your comment that "it must need some work" is appropriate. I think the proposed parentage of Katherine Tregian D'Oyley is possible (and perhaps even likely) but not yet sufficiently proven. And this may also apply to Martha Tregian who married William Hartwell.

[Johnny Brananas]

Yes, it seems to need some more investigation or at least firming up.

Actually, I was wrong about the Christian name of the husband of Martha Tregian ... It was Jasper Hartwell, not William. These Hartwells were of Preston, Northamptonshire. Jasper and Martha were apparently the parents of a Sir Robert Hartwell not shown in the later Northants. Visitations. Martha (Tregian) Hartwell apparently remarried to Robert Harlowe after the death of 1st husband Jasper Hartwell.

Also, Katherine Tregian's (supposed/ apparent) husband was Robert Doyley, not John.

[Johnny Brananas]

> Actually, I was wrong about the Christian name of the husband of Martha Tregian ... It was Jasper Hartwell, not William. These Hartwells were of Preston, Northamptonshire. Jasper and Martha were apparently the parents of a Sir Robert Hartwell not shown in the later Northants. Visitations. Martha (Tregian) Hartwell apparently remarried to Robert Harlowe after the death of 1st husband Jasper Hartwell.
>
> Also, Katherine Tregian's (supposed/ apparent) husband was Robert Doyley, not John.

"Order of the Court of Wards and Liveries for the delivery of Robert Hartwell, a ward, to Martha Harlowe and others, he having previously been in the custody of the Dean of Westminster. 20 June 1585."

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fourth_Report_of_the_Royal_Commission_on/MFg-AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=martha+%22robert+hartwell%22&pg=PA197&printsec=frontcover

[Johnny Brananas]

Sir Robert Hartwell's (apparent) wife Anne Drury, from a pedigree:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_and_Antiquities_of_Hawsted_a/Q_YvAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22robert+hartwell%22+northants&pg=PA133&printsec=frontcover

[John Higgins]

You're right, of course, that Katherine Tregian's husband was Robert [not John] D'Oyley.

I think the uncertainty about Catherine Tregian still is appropriate,

[Johnny Brananas]

On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 2:43:22 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> Sir Robert Hartwell's (apparent) wife Anne Drury, from a pedigree:
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_and_Antiquities_of_Hawsted_a/Q_YvAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22robert+hartwell%22+northants&pg=PA133&printsec=frontcover

This Anne Drury would have had her own descent from Arundell of Lanherne:

1. Sir John Arundell of Lanherne = Elizabeth Morley
2. Anne Arundell = Sir James Tyrell
3. Anne Tyrell = Sir Richard Wentworth
4. Sir Thomas Wentworth, Baron Wentworthe = Margaret Fortescue
5. Margaret Wentworth = (1) John, Lord Williams of Thame; (2) Sir William Drury
6. Anne Drury = Sir Robert Hartwell

[Johnny Brananas]

Sir Robert Hartwell was born about 1570 (from Oxford records):

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Alumni_Oxonienses/c9E9AQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=robert+hartwel+northampton&pg=PA667&printsec=frontcover

His wife, Lady Hartwell, was buried at Odell, Northants., in 3 Charles I, possibly because of her sister Jane Drury's marriage to Richard Chetwode, whose family had a connection to Odell.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Bibliotheca_Topographica_Britannica/rtIuwcJPFGcC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22lady%20hartwell%22%20odell

[Will Johnson]

Jasper Hartwell left a will

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6578717

dated Jan 1578

[Will Johnson]

Sir Robert had a son and heir-apparent (so said in 1616) named Jasper

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Middle_Temple_Records_1603_1649/8DHGAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22robert%20hartwell%22%20knight&pg=PA604&printsec=frontcover&bsq=%22robert%20hartwell%22%20knight

[Will Johnson]

Actually he had several children

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Beetle_Gazette/mL5RAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22robert+hartwell%22+knight&dq=%22robert+hartwell%22+knight&printsec=frontcover

It's unclear that Anne was the mother,, as there is here named a wife "Eliza' as well

[Johnny Brananas]

That book claims Robert Hartwell's wife was ELIZABETH, daughter of Sir William Drury, which may explain "Eliza."

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Beetle_Gazette/mL5RAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=drury

[Will Johnson]

Yes, my source was

http://books.google.com/books?id=o_c1AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA414

but they just give a mass of sources without specifying which one supports the name of his wife.