William de Burgo
Robert G. Koch
across the name William de Burgo as a very distant relative. He apparently
was a descendent of William the Conqueror. I believe "Burgo" eventually
evolved into "Burke" and the Philbins or MacPhilbins were a branch of that
Irish clan. I have also been informed that some Philbins emigrated to
Scotland; my branch came to the US through Boston in 1886 and settled in
NYC.
Any insight or information would be appreciated.
Rob Koch
StNeel
>During my research of the maternal side of my family -- Philbin, I came
>across the name William de Burgo as a very distant relative. He apparently
>was a descendent of William the Conqueror. I believe "Burgo" eventually
>evolved into "Burke" and the Philbins,,,,,
The de Burgo family is pretty well known - I will try to remember (should look
at ref etc) buu here's a quick answer-
The first ones include a de Burgo who was one of Wm the Conqueror's 'generals'
c1050's and was on the Norman Exqueror Council. I don't beleive that he was
kin to Wm the C. - at least not then but could be in the family before or
after. Later there was Richard FitzEustace de Burgo, Lord of Alnwick castle and
in the Battle of the Standards. Hubert de Burg, the last great Justiciar of
England, was his grandson or so. Hubert was the protege of the famous Wm
Marshall - both at Runneymead 1215. Finally there is the Burgo/Burg who was
the famous Red Earl of Ulster (also another the Black Earl of Ulster). And yes
the Burgo/Burg's became Burke.
I should look up more but that will get you started - they were a rich &
powerful Norman family
StNeel
Richard Borthwick
de Burgh the justiciar and his clan. The two families do have a topographic
connection, namely Norfolk. "The traditional account that the Honour of
Knaresborough descended to Eustace fitz John (d.1157) as nephew and next
heir of Serlo de Burg was shown to be a fallacy by Thomas Stapleton in
1839;..." [CP XII/2: App.B, pp.7-8]. Knaresborough was farmed in 1130 by
Eustace fitz John lord of Malton, Yorks NR. [Sanders, I J *English Baronies:
a study of their origin and descent 1086-1327* (Clarendon Press: Oxford,
1963 [1960]), 59]
(2) Richard fitz Eustace (d.<1157) was not lord of Alnwick, Northumberland,
but his half-brother William fitz Eustace was. Richard's grandson Robert
fitz Roger (d.1214) was granted the barony of Whalton in Northumberland in
1205 and succeeded to his father's lordship of Warkworth (i.e. the lordship
granted by Henry II in 1157 to Roger fitz Richard (d.<1199). Richard fitz
Eustace's agnatic ancestors were: Eustace (d.1157) <- John (d.>1100) <-
Richard (d.<1061) <- Ranulf "the Moneyer". [Sanders, I J *English Baronies:
a study of their origin and descent 1086-1327* (Clarendon Press: Oxford,
1963 [1960]), 105, 150; CP XII/2: Appendix B]
(3) The parents of Hubert de Burgh (d.1243) were Alice & her husband whose
christian name was probably Walter. This Walter (d.1179/80) held Burgh near
Aylsham, Norfolk. Hubert had a brother, William (d.1205) from whom the earls
of Ulster as well as the Burkes of Limerick, Tipperary, Clanricarde and Mayo
descend. It would seem that the family can be traced back no further than
Hubert's mother and probable father. "The false trail laid by Dugdale in the
seventeenth century was still being faithfully followed in the nineteenth."
[Ellis, 183]. The DNB article on Hubert is a notorious example. The family
were modest Norfolk gentry - nothing very grand. [Ellis, C. *Hubert de
Burgh: A Study in Constancy* (Phoenix House: London, 1952), 183-202]
(4) The material in Burke's *A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant,
Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire*, 88-89 on the origins
of the Burghs has no foundation.
Richard
StNeel
rg...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au. But as I said I was doing it from memory - always
dangerous to the facts etc.
I do get however from 'A History of Wales' J.E. Lloyd Vol2 1911 the following;
- Eustace FitzJohn de Burgo, d1157 Lord of Alnwick & Knaresborough Castles,
Constable of Chester
Other ref with Burgo/Burg/Burgh folks are
-King Henry III & Lord Edward by F.M. Powicke, Oxford 1947
- A History of Wales, Curtis, 1936
- Falaise Roll by Crispin
although it is popular in this forum to disbelieve the Princeton U Prof
Crispin book but the "roll" names contained in it were put up in Normandy by
the French on a bronze tablet.
and the fore mentioned 'Hubert de Burgh' by C Ellis but I have seen a critisim
of Ellis's placement of the ancestors of Hubert somewhere. Hubert was Earl of
Kent, Justiciar of England and owned property all over England including Wales,
Norfolk etc. However I defer to others on that.
I also have a
William de Burgh d 1205 Lord of Limerick, Lord of Castleconnel on the Shannon
River from the Powicke Herny III ref.
Hope this is useful
StNeel
Leslie Mahler
Northumberland,
but his half-brother William fitz Eustace was. Richard's grandson Robert
fitz Roger (d.1214) was granted the barony of Whalton in Northumberland
in
1205 and succeeded to his father's lordship of Warkworth (i.e. the
lordship
granted by Henry II in 1157 to Roger fitz Richard (d.<1199). Richard
fitz
Eustace's agnatic ancestors were: Eustace (d.1157) <- John (d.>1100) <-
Richard (d.<1061) <- Ranulf "the Moneyer". [Sanders, I J *English
Baronies:
a study of their origin and descent 1086-1327* (Clarendon Press: Oxford,
1963 [1960]), 105, 150; CP XII/2: Appendix B]
---In the article on Vescy in the Complete Peerage, there is a note that
Eustace fitz John was married secondly to Agnes daughter of William Fitz
Neel, by whom he had a son named Richard. The note also states that this
Richard Fitz Eustace was not the father of Roger Fitz Richard of
Warkworth, and that Round disproved it in Essex Archaeological Society
Transactions, New Series, vol III, p 248.
So, who is right, CP and Round, or Sanders??
Leslie