C.P. Addition/Correction: Elizabeth Morton, wife of Robert Walden and Sir George West
Douglas Richardson
Sir George West, Knt. (died 1538), of Warbleton, Sussex is the
ancestor of numerous 17th Century New World immigrants, including Anne
(Humphrey) (Palmes) Miles, of Massachusetts, Herbert Pelham and his
siblings, William and John Pelham, and sister, Penelope (Pelham)
Bellingham, all of Massachusetts, John Stockman, of Massachusetts, and
Gov. Thomas West. and his brothers, Francis, John, and Nathaniel, all
of Virginia. Sir George West is also uncle to two other colonial
immigrants, including Dorothy (Beresford) Brodnax and William Crymes,
both of Virginia, whose royal and noble ancestry have recently been
documented.
Complete Peerage, 4 (1916): 158 (sub De La Warr) mentions Sir George
West in passing in the account of his son, William West, Knt., 1st
Lord De la Warr:
"William West .... son and heir of Sir George West, of Warbleton,
Sussex, by Elizabeth, 1st daughter and coheir of Sir Robert Morton, of
Lechlade, co. Gloucester ..."
On the same page, it is stated that William West, son of Sir George
West, was "born before 1520," and that he "succeeded his father [in]
Sept. 1538." If so, this would mean that Sir George West married his
wife, Elizabeth Morton, before 1520.
There is a pedigree of the Morton family published in Collectanea
Top. et Gen. 3 (1836): 169–171. See the folliowing weblink for this
material:
The Morton pedigree indicates that Elizabeth Morton was born about
1503, she being aged 11 in 1514 at the death of her father. Yet she
was not her father's heiress as claimed by Complete Peerage. Rather,
she had a younger brother, William Morton, who survived until 1522, at
which date Elizabeth inherited the manors of Paganhill (in Stroud) and
Barnsley, Gloucestershire. As such, Complete Peerage is in error to
state Elizabeth was coheir to her father, Robert Morton. She was
actually coheir to her brother, William Morton. This information is
confirmed by VCH Gloucester, 11 (1976): 117 , which may be viewed at
the following weblink:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=19060
And,. while Elizabeth Morton was of sufficient age to have had her
son, William West, about 1520, the following record indicates that Sir
George West and his wife, Elizabeth, were not married until shortly
after 1 July 1529. The record below refers to Elizabeth Morton as
"Elizabeth Walden, widow, late wife of Robert Walden" which means that
she had a hitherto unknown first marriage to Robert Walden before she
became the wife of Sir George West.
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Source:
http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqIni=DserveA.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=30&dsqSearch=((text)=%27Testwood%27)
COLLECTION Testwood deeds
1M31/16
Grant of the manors of Testwood or Treswood and Wynleton, with lands
and woods, etc, in consideration of the marriage to be made between
George West, brother of Sir Thomas West and Elizabeth Walden, widow,
late wife of Robert Walden.
Date 1 July 1529. END OF QUOTE.
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Since Sir George West is known to have had only one wife, Elizabeth
Morton, if correct, this would mean that their son and heir, William
West, was not born before 1520 at all as claimed by Complete Peerage.
Rather, William West would have to have been born no earlier than
1530.
Elsewhere, I find there is an account of Sir George West in Brydges,
Collins’ Peerage of England 5 (1812): 16–17 (sub West, Earl
Delawarr). This material may be viewed at the following weblink:
Brydges' information identifies Elizabeth Morton as the sole wife of
George West. He does not give a birthdate for George and Elizabeth's
son, William West.
That Elizabeth Morton was George West's wife in 1538 is confirmed by
VCH Gloucester, 11 (1976): 117 (already cited above) which shows that
in that year, George West and his wife, Elizabeth, sold the manor of
Paganhill (in Stroud). Gloucestershire, which property was part of her
Morton inheritance.
Lastly, we can be certain that the George West who married the widow
Elizabeth Walden in 1529 is the right George West, as the manor of
Testwood, Hampshire, which formed part of their marriage settlement in
1529 (see above) later passed to their younger son, Sir Thomas West.
For a history of the manor of Testwood (in Eling), Hampshire, see the
following weblink:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=56879&strquery=testwood
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
royala...@msn.com
As a followup to my earlier post, I find there is an interesting and
well written biography of Sir George West (died 1538), of Warbleton,
Sussex in the book, Raines, The Rectors of Manchester, and the Wardens
of the Collegiate Church of that Town Pt. 1 (1885): 52-55. This
material may be viewed at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oavjGGGobSUC&pg=PA54&dq=George+West+Warbleton&lr=#PPA52,M1
The above mentioned biography indicates that George West was appointed
Warden of the Collegiate Church of Manchester, Lancashire 29 July
1519, he then being an ecclesiastic. While warden, he built the
chapel at the east end of the choir. He resigned the wardenship 2
Oct. 1528, reserving an annual payment of £18 during his natural life
from his successor.
The author further states the following:
"It has been conjectured that he renounced his wardenship and priestly
life at the same time, in anticipation of the downfall of the
church .... But it is more probable that he obtained a dispensation to
contract marriage to preserve and continue his ancient lineage and
titles, and therefore relinquished his office and celibacy." END OF
QUOTE.
If correct, then George West can't have contracted marriage until
after 2 October 1528, which explains why the settlement concerning his
marriage is dated 1 July 1529 in the following year. This also means
that Complete Peerage was in error to allege without foundation or
documentation that his son and heir, William West, born born about
1520. Obviously William West can not have been born until 1530 at the
earliest.
royala...@msn.com
I find there is an interesting record of Sir George West dated 1520,
when he was then Master and Warden of the Collegiate Church of
Manchester, Lancashire, which record is published in Fishwick,
Pleadings & Depositions in the Duchy of Lancaster (Rec. Soc. for the
Publication of Original Docs. rel. to Lancashire & Chester 32) (1896):
81–83. This item may be found at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ARQRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA81&dq=George+West+Warden#PPA81,M1
royala...@msn.com
The weblink I provided for the record below was evidently in error.
The following weblink should work much better:
COLLECTION Testwood deeds
1M31/16
Grant of the manors of Testwood or Treswood and Wynleton, with lands
and woods, etc, in consideration of the marriage to be made between
George West, brother of Sir Thomas West and Elizabeth Walden, widow,
late wife of Robert Walden.
Date 1 July 1529.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
royala...@msn.com
As a followup to my earlier posts, it appears that Robert Walden, the
hitherto unknown first husband of Elizabeth Morton, was the son and
heir apparent of Sir Richard Walden, of Erith, Kent.
Robert Walden son of Sir Richard Walden is mentioned an article by
Walter Goodwin Davis which appeared in NEHGR, published 1948, pg.
247, a brief snippet view of which may be viewed at the following
weblink (go to the fourth item listed):
http://books.google.com/books?q=Robert+Walden+Sir+Richard&btnG=Search+Books&um=1
This snippet item indicates that Robert Walden died without issue
sometime in his father's lifetime. Since Sir Richard Walden (the
father) is known from other sources to have died in 1536, the
chronology works well for this Robert Walden to have been the first
husband of Elizabeth Morton. As stated in my first post, Elizabeth
Morton married (2nd) in 1529 to Sir Geoge West.
As for other evidence in support of this identification, I've found
the following lawsuit in the National Archives catalog which shows
that a certain George West sued Sir Richard West and his wife and
other parties sometime before 1536 regarding riotous assembly.
Source: National Archives Catalog (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
catalogue/search.asp)
STAC 2/19/246
Record Summary
Scope and content
PLAINTIFF: George West DEFENDANT: Sir Richard Walden and his wife,
Thomas Sampson, Edward Hawte, John Roley, and others PLACE OR SUBJECT:
Riotous assembly COUNTY: Kent
Covering dates 22/04/1509-28/01/1547
I assume the George West who is the plaintiff in this lawsuit is the
same person as the George West who married Elizabeth Morton, widow of
Robert Walden.
As for Elizabeth Morton, Complete Peerage is silent about her
subsequent history following the death of her second husband, Sir
George West, in 1538. However, it appears that Elizabeth Morton had a
third marriage to Ralph Rosier, Esq [see VCH Gloucester, 7 (1981):
17, citing C3/287/6]. In 1568 Ralph and his wife, Elizabeth, sold her
manor of Barnsley, Gloucestershire to Thomas West [see VCH Gloucester,
7 (1981): 17, citing CP/25(2)/259/10 Eliz. Hil. no. 4]. Also, I find
that in Trinity term 1578 Ralph Rosier, Esq. obtained lands in
Cramborne, Dorset from John Ludlowe, Gent. [see Notes & Queries for
Somerset & Dorset 6 (1899): 167].
So we now have not one but three husbands for Elizabeth Morton: (1st)
Robert Walden; (2nd) Sir George West, Knt.; and (3rd) Ralph Rosier,
Esq.
jhigg...@yahoo.com
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> As a followup to my earlier posts, it appears that Robert Walden, the
> hitherto unknown first husband of Elizabeth Morton, was the son and
> heir apparent of Sir Richard Walden, of Erith, Kent.
>
> Robert Walden son of Sir Richard Walden is mentioned an article by
> Walter Goodwin Davis which appeared in NEHGR, published 1948, pg.
> 247, a brief snippet view of which may be viewed at the following
> weblink (go to the fourth item listed):
>
>
> This snippet item indicates that Robert Walden died without issue
> sometime in his father's lifetime. Since Sir Richard Walden (the
> father) is known from other sources to have died in 1536, the
> chronology works well for this Robert Walden to have been the first
> husband of Elizabeth Morton. As stated in my first post, Elizabeth
> Morton married (2nd) in 1529 to Sir Geoge West.
>
The full version of the NEHGR article cited in snippet form above does
indicate that Sir Richard Walden's son Robert d. sp and vp and, at the
time of his father's death, Robert's widow Elizabeth had a surname of
West. Davis' article also says that Sir Richard Walden d. in 1539,
not 1536 as stated above; his will was dated 8 Jan 1532 and proved 23
June 1539 (PCC 28 Dyngeley).
jhigg...@yahoo.com
>
> As for Elizabeth Morton, Complete Peerage is silent about her
> subsequent history following the death of her second husband, Sir
> George West, in 1538. However, it appears that Elizabeth Morton had a
> third marriage to Ralph Rosier, Esq [see VCH Gloucester, 7 (1981):
> 17, citing C3/287/6]. In 1568 Ralph and his wife, Elizabeth, sold her
> manor of Barnsley, Gloucestershire to Thomas West [see VCH Gloucester,
> 7 (1981): 17, citing CP/25(2)/259/10 Eliz. Hil. no. 4]. Also, I find
> that in Trinity term 1578 Ralph Rosier, Esq. obtained lands in
> Cramborne, Dorset from John Ludlowe, Gent. [see Notes & Queries for
> Somerset & Dorset 6 (1899): 167].
>
> So we now have not one but three husbands for Elizabeth Morton: (1st)
> Robert Walden; (2nd) Sir George West, Knt.; and (3rd) Ralph Rosier,
> Esq.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
The Rosier marriage for Elizabeth Morton is not "new news". It was
noted, inter alia, in David Faris' PA2 in 1999, citing the VCH
references mentioned above.
royala...@msn.com
<
< The Rosier marriage for Elizabeth Morton is not "new news". It was
< noted, inter alia, in David Faris' PA2 in 1999, citing the VCH
< references mentioned above.
Actually I was the person who found the information in VCH Gloucester
and gave it to Dr. Faris.
royala...@msn.com
>
> The full version of the NEHGR article cited in snippet form above does
> indicate that Sir Richard Walden's son Robert d. sp and vp and, at the
> time of his father's death, Robert's widow Elizabeth had a surname of
> West. Davis' article also says that Sir Richard Walden d. in 1539,
> not 1536 as stated above; his will was dated 8 Jan 1532 and proved 23
> June 1539 (PCC 28 Dyngeley).
John,
Thanks for your good post. Much appreciated.
genm...@gmail.com
And why exactly is this assertion necessary or pertinent here?
wjhonson
The 1536 date comes from
http://books.google.com/books?id=mU4JAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA214&dq=Richard+Walden+Knight
apparently citing a no longer existent brass.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
>
> apparently citing a no longer existent brass.
>
> Will Johnson
An interesting inscription.... If it was in fact transcribed
accurately and Sir Richard died in 1536, it raises the question of why
his will was not proved until 1539. The will itself, of course, might
have the specific death date.
The next earlier reference to a brass in this source, for "Richard
Walden armigeri" and his wife Elizabeth who died 25 Oct 11496 (with no
death date given for Richard) is likely for the same Richard, whose
first wife (of three), noted in a pedigree in the Visitations of Kent
(HSP vol. 74), was Elizabeth Rowllesley.
royala...@msn.com
< And why exactly is this assertion necessary or pertinent here?
The truth is always important, John.