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Christopher Ingham
Oct 2, 2012, 4:52:57 PM10/2/12
to
I’m hoping someone can answer two (easy?) questions pertaining to some
late medieval Spanish families.
I’ve come across abbreviated words in many seventeenth-century
published (mostly genealogical) chronicles I’m transcribing passages
from, usually having only one letter omitted, wherein the letter
preceding the omitted one has what appears to be a tilde in some
works, and an acute accent in others (e.g., tiempo written as tiépo?).
Would anyone know what the mark actually is?
Also, I would like to know what would be the proper family
designation – for an English-speaking audience – the earliest secure
ancestor of which is a Rodrigo de las Varillas in the mid-thirteenth
century, and the later members of which (in two branches) down to the
late-fifteenth century have the combination patronymic-toponymic-like
names Rodríguez de las Varillas and González de las Varillas. I’m
thinking it should be “the Varillas” or “the De las Varillas,” but
really don’t know.
Christopher Ingham
late medieval Spanish families.
I’ve come across abbreviated words in many seventeenth-century
published (mostly genealogical) chronicles I’m transcribing passages
from, usually having only one letter omitted, wherein the letter
preceding the omitted one has what appears to be a tilde in some
works, and an acute accent in others (e.g., tiempo written as tiépo?).
Would anyone know what the mark actually is?
Also, I would like to know what would be the proper family
designation – for an English-speaking audience – the earliest secure
ancestor of which is a Rodrigo de las Varillas in the mid-thirteenth
century, and the later members of which (in two branches) down to the
late-fifteenth century have the combination patronymic-toponymic-like
names Rodríguez de las Varillas and González de las Varillas. I’m
thinking it should be “the Varillas” or “the De las Varillas,” but
really don’t know.
Christopher Ingham
J.L.Fernandez Blanco
Oct 2, 2012, 10:31:12 PM10/2/12
to
I'll try to do my best answering your questions. The "tilde" is actually the symbol that goes on top of the "n" as in "ñ". The symbol above te consonant originally meant that "ñ" was equal to two "n" (as in "anno", then "año"). Leter, it was assimilated to almost all sounds where there was a nasal n or m. Instead of writing these two consonants, they would just mark the preceding vowel with that symbol to imply that it sounded "em/en" (there are other instances, such as, but not limited to, "im/in", "am/an", etc.). However this rule didn't apply to "on" if this was the last two letters of the word, as commonly "on" goes with "tilde" (i.e., "-ón" which makes it difficult to put on top of the "o" two different sort of tildes (which however, I've seen occasionally).
Now regarding the "de las Varillas" family, it is correct to name them that way NN (name) Rodríguez / González (patronym) de las Varillas (family name)". Notwithstanding this, in later times the "González" was dropped down and the family in the area is universally known as "Rodríguez de las Varillas" [as they recognized as their earliest ancestor one Rodrigo de las Varillas, about whom little is known, and, in some cases, "Rodríguez de las Varillas de Salamanca" (just to indicate their procedence). I haven't found any "González de las Varillas" beyond the XV century, as they were all called, regardless of the branch they belonged to "Rodríguez de las Varillas" with the later (mid XVI century on) addition of "de Salamanca".
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
José Luis.
Now regarding the "de las Varillas" family, it is correct to name them that way NN (name) Rodríguez / González (patronym) de las Varillas (family name)". Notwithstanding this, in later times the "González" was dropped down and the family in the area is universally known as "Rodríguez de las Varillas" [as they recognized as their earliest ancestor one Rodrigo de las Varillas, about whom little is known, and, in some cases, "Rodríguez de las Varillas de Salamanca" (just to indicate their procedence). I haven't found any "González de las Varillas" beyond the XV century, as they were all called, regardless of the branch they belonged to "Rodríguez de las Varillas" with the later (mid XVI century on) addition of "de Salamanca".
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
José Luis.
Bronwen Edwards
Oct 2, 2012, 10:42:45 PM10/2/12
to
On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:52:59 PM UTC-7, Christopher Ingham wrote:
> Also, I would like to know what would be the proper family
>
> designation – for an English-speaking audience – the earliest secure
>
> ancestor of which is a Rodrigo de las Varillas in the mid-thirteenth
>
> century, and the later members of which (in two branches) down to the
>
> late-fifteenth century have the combination patronymic-toponymic-like
>
> names Rodríguez de las Varillas and González de las Varillas. I’m
>
> thinking it should be “the Varillas” or “the De las Varillas,” but
>
> really don’t know.
On this second question, I would think that you mean something like "Rodriguez y Varillas" (combining patronymic and matrinymic) or that you are just referring to patronymics that include an ancestral place of origin "son of Rodrigo whose family was from Varillas". I could be totally wrong. I don't know why I feel compelled to answer this question just before going to bed.....
> Also, I would like to know what would be the proper family
>
> designation – for an English-speaking audience – the earliest secure
>
> ancestor of which is a Rodrigo de las Varillas in the mid-thirteenth
>
> century, and the later members of which (in two branches) down to the
>
> late-fifteenth century have the combination patronymic-toponymic-like
>
> names Rodríguez de las Varillas and González de las Varillas. I’m
>
> thinking it should be “the Varillas” or “the De las Varillas,” but
>
> really don’t know.
Christopher Ingham
Oct 3, 2012, 10:29:42 AM10/3/12
to
On Oct 2, 10:31 pm, "J.L.Fernandez Blanco"
Thanks for your informative reply, José Luis.
Ryan Wesley Szpiech, who specializes in medieval Iberian literature at
the University of Michigan, in an e-mail to me corroborates what you
have said on all points, and adds that the habit of abbreviating words
(common in early printing until the eighteenth century) with macrons
and tildes was a carry-over from medieval scribal practices, which
included the use of “macrons, tildes, and a host of other squiggles
and titles,” each of which could represent different letters or groups
of letters.
Christopher Ingham
>
> Best regards,
>
> José Luis.
Ryan Wesley Szpiech, who specializes in medieval Iberian literature at
the University of Michigan, in an e-mail to me corroborates what you
have said on all points, and adds that the habit of abbreviating words
(common in early printing until the eighteenth century) with macrons
and tildes was a carry-over from medieval scribal practices, which
included the use of “macrons, tildes, and a host of other squiggles
and titles,” each of which could represent different letters or groups
of letters.
Christopher Ingham
>
> Best regards,
>
> José Luis.
J.L.Fernandez Blanco
Oct 3, 2012, 8:31:03 PM10/3/12
to
On this second question, I would think that you mean something like "Rodriguez y Varillas" (combining patronymic and matrinymic) or that you are just referring to patronymics that include an ancestral place of origin "son of Rodrigo whose family was from Varillas". I could be totally wrong. I don't know why I feel compelled to answer this question just before going to bed.....
Actually, no. They were always called (mostly) Rodríguez de las Varillas. The "varillas" makes reference not to a place of origin (which there isn't...I mean, there is no place called "Varillas") but to the arms (the famous "bars" from the Royal House of Aragon), which they used as proper at least since the XIV century [whether they were entitled to use them or not is a different issue]. "Bar" could be translated into old Spanish a Varilla (a diminutive of Vara="Stick," synonym of the heraldic Barra / Bar), hence their indentification as being different from any other Rodríguez, meaning they were the ones who were "de las Varillas" according to their ancestral arms.
Hope this helps.
Best regards.
José Luis.
J.L.Fernandez Blanco
Oct 3, 2012, 8:34:24 PM10/3/12
to
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:29:43 AM UTC-3, Christopher Ingham wrote:
[snip]
If you don't mind my asking...are you looking for someone especifically? I have lots of information about this family (as I descend from them multiple times). I might be able to help you.
Best wishes,
José Luis.
[snip]
If you don't mind my asking...are you looking for someone especifically? I have lots of information about this family (as I descend from them multiple times). I might be able to help you.
Best wishes,
José Luis.
Christopher Ingham
Oct 3, 2012, 11:42:32 PM10/3/12
to
On Oct 3, 8:34 pm, "J.L.Fernandez Blanco"
I think I’ve worked out the de las Varillas ancestors of Gonzalo
Vázquez de Coronado, both of whose parents descend from Sancho Pérez
de Varillas, except perhaps for the father of 40 and 53, who were
siblings.
This shows Gonzalo’s de las Varillas ancestors and their spouses:
1. Gonzalo Vázquez de Coronado (d. 1492), señor of Coquilla and la
Torre
2. Juan Vázquez de Coronado (d. 1465), señor of Coquilla and la
Torre
3. Mariá Fernández de las Varillas
4. Pedro Vázquez de Coronado, señor of Coquilla and la Torre
5. Berenguela Fernández de las Varillas
6. Pedro Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. aft. 1409), señor of Cempron
and Bernoy
7. María Álvarez de Grado
10. Rui González de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos and Tordelosa
11. Berenguela González de Gricio
12. Juan Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. 1380), señor of Cempron and
Bernoy
13. Mariá Fernández de Monroy (d. 1370), señora of Monroy, Talavan,
and Valverde
20. Gonzalo Rodríguez de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos and
Tordelosa
21. Teresa Martínez Nieto
26. Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Mozo,” señor of Monroy, Talavan, and
Valverde
27. Inés Rodríguez de las Varillas
40. Rodrigo de las Varillas
41. Inés Godínez
52. Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Viejo,” señor of Monroy, Talavan, and
Valverde
53. Estefanía Rodríguez de las Varillas
80. and 106. Sancho Pérez de Varillas
I’m currently trying to determine the reliability of
Pellicer's_Memorial de la Casa de Saavedra_(1647), specifically the
generations he gives immediately preceding Mayor de Saavedra, mother
of Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Viejo,” as well as the male line ascent
of Pedro Fernández de Monroy, Fernán’s father. If you by chance have
seen Canal Sánchez-Pagín’s “Don Pedro Fernández, primer maestre de la
Orden Militar de Santiago: Su familia, su vida” (_Anuario de Estudios
Medievales_14, (1984):33-71), do you recall what if anything he has to
say about the Monroys anterior to Pedro Fernández de Monroy?
Christopher Ingham
Vázquez de Coronado, both of whose parents descend from Sancho Pérez
de Varillas, except perhaps for the father of 40 and 53, who were
siblings.
This shows Gonzalo’s de las Varillas ancestors and their spouses:
1. Gonzalo Vázquez de Coronado (d. 1492), señor of Coquilla and la
Torre
2. Juan Vázquez de Coronado (d. 1465), señor of Coquilla and la
Torre
3. Mariá Fernández de las Varillas
4. Pedro Vázquez de Coronado, señor of Coquilla and la Torre
5. Berenguela Fernández de las Varillas
6. Pedro Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. aft. 1409), señor of Cempron
and Bernoy
7. María Álvarez de Grado
10. Rui González de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos and Tordelosa
11. Berenguela González de Gricio
12. Juan Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. 1380), señor of Cempron and
Bernoy
13. Mariá Fernández de Monroy (d. 1370), señora of Monroy, Talavan,
and Valverde
20. Gonzalo Rodríguez de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos and
Tordelosa
21. Teresa Martínez Nieto
26. Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Mozo,” señor of Monroy, Talavan, and
Valverde
27. Inés Rodríguez de las Varillas
40. Rodrigo de las Varillas
41. Inés Godínez
52. Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Viejo,” señor of Monroy, Talavan, and
Valverde
53. Estefanía Rodríguez de las Varillas
80. and 106. Sancho Pérez de Varillas
I’m currently trying to determine the reliability of
Pellicer's_Memorial de la Casa de Saavedra_(1647), specifically the
generations he gives immediately preceding Mayor de Saavedra, mother
of Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Viejo,” as well as the male line ascent
of Pedro Fernández de Monroy, Fernán’s father. If you by chance have
seen Canal Sánchez-Pagín’s “Don Pedro Fernández, primer maestre de la
Orden Militar de Santiago: Su familia, su vida” (_Anuario de Estudios
Medievales_14, (1984):33-71), do you recall what if anything he has to
say about the Monroys anterior to Pedro Fernández de Monroy?
Christopher Ingham
Christopher Ingham
Oct 4, 2012, 12:30:26 AM10/4/12
to
On Oct 3, 11:42 pm, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>
wrote:
This is the correct ahnentafel:
1. Gonzalo Vázquez de Coronado (d. 1492), señor of Coquilla
24. Gonzalo Rodríguez de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos
41. Inés Godínez (same as 49 and 55)
48. Rodrigo de las Varillas (same as 40 and 54)
49. Inés Godínez (same as 41 and 55)
55. Inés Godínez (same as 41 and 49)
80. 96, 106, and 108. Sancho Pérez de Varillas
Christopher Ingham
wrote:
1. Gonzalo Vázquez de Coronado (d. 1492), señor of Coquilla
2. Juan Vázquez de Coronado (d. 1465), señor of Coquilla
3. Mariá Fernández de las Varillas
4. Pedro Vázquez de Coronado, señor of Coquilla
4. Pedro Vázquez de Coronado, señor of Coquilla
5. Berenguela Fernández de las Varillas
6. Pedro Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. aft. 1409), señor of Cempron
6. Pedro Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. aft. 1409), señor of Cempron
7. María Álvarez de Grado
10. Rui González de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos
10. Rui González de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos
11. Berenguela González de Gricio
12. Juan Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. 1380), señor of Cempron
12. Juan Rodríguez de las Varillas (d. 1380), señor of Cempron
13. Mariá Fernández de Monroy (d. 1370), señora of Monroy
20. Gonzalo Rodríguez de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos
21. Teresa Martínez Nieto
24. Gonzalo Rodríguez de las Varillas, señor of Tornadizos
26. Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Mozo,” señor of Monroy
27. Inés Rodríguez de las Varillas
40. Rodrigo de las Varillas (same as 48 and 54)
41. Inés Godínez (same as 49 and 55)
48. Rodrigo de las Varillas (same as 40 and 54)
49. Inés Godínez (same as 41 and 55)
52. Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Viejo,” señor of Monroy
53. Estefanía Rodríguez de las Varillas
54. Rodrigo de las Varillas (same as 40 and 48)
55. Inés Godínez (same as 41 and 49)
80. 96, 106, and 108. Sancho Pérez de Varillas
Christopher Ingham
J.L.Fernandez Blanco
Oct 5, 2012, 8:30:38 PM10/5/12
to
On Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:42:32 AM UTC-3, Christopher Ingham wrote:
[snip]
[snip]
> I’m currently trying to determine the reliability of
>
> Pellicer's_Memorial de la Casa de Saavedra_(1647), specifically the
>
> generations he gives immediately preceding Mayor de Saavedra, mother
>
> of Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Viejo,” as well as the male line ascent
>
> of Pedro Fernández de Monroy, Fernán’s father. If you by chance have
>
> seen Canal Sánchez-Pagín’s “Don Pedro Fernández, primer maestre de la
>
> Orden Militar de Santiago: Su familia, su vida” (_Anuario de Estudios
>
> Medievales_14, (1984):33-71), do you recall what if anything he has to
>
> say about the Monroys anterior to Pedro Fernández de Monroy?
>
>
>
> Christopher Ingham
Let's see. Pellicer is as reliable as any other writer of "memoriales". Some of his works are fairly reliable others are complete rubbish (Salazar y Castro demolished some of them, but without giving further evidence about Pellicer's mistakes). Unfortunaley, the Memorial de Saavedra (which I have) falls in the latter category. Not very useful.
>
> Pellicer's_Memorial de la Casa de Saavedra_(1647), specifically the
>
> generations he gives immediately preceding Mayor de Saavedra, mother
>
> of Fernán Pérez de Monroy “el Viejo,” as well as the male line ascent
>
> of Pedro Fernández de Monroy, Fernán’s father. If you by chance have
>
> seen Canal Sánchez-Pagín’s “Don Pedro Fernández, primer maestre de la
>
> Orden Militar de Santiago: Su familia, su vida” (_Anuario de Estudios
>
> Medievales_14, (1984):33-71), do you recall what if anything he has to
>
> say about the Monroys anterior to Pedro Fernández de Monroy?
>
>
>
> Christopher Ingham
Now the question about Canal-Sánchez Pagin made me jump! I really don't understand it. His conclusions about Pedro Fernández, I maestre de la O.M.Santiago, have been discussed previously in this forum. Mainly, his argument that he was a son of Fernando Garcés/García de Hita by his second wife, Estefanía Armengol, being thus a half-brother of Rodrigo Fernández, the ancestor of the medieval Castro family.
Now, what this has to do with the Monroys eludes me completely!
Maybe I need to read again the Memorial de Saavedra and try to find Canal's article (which I had photocopied but...alas!...I lost the papers somewhere in between Atlanta and Hong Kong...), because I cannot make sense of your question.
Would you be so kind as to elaborate a little further? I'm at a loss to understand it.
Best wishes,
José Luis.
J.L.Fernandez Blanco
Oct 5, 2012, 8:35:32 PM10/5/12
to
On Thursday, October 4, 2012 1:30:27 AM UTC-3, Christopher Ingham wrote:
[snip]
>
[snip]
>
> 80. 96, 106, and 108. Sancho Pérez de Varillas
>
I think I have something about him, but not much. Let me check my papers and I'll let you know. If my memory doesn't fail me (and lately it does, trust me!), he was the first member of the family who, with his father, moved from Navarre to Castille.
>
Hope to be back with some info soon.
Best wishes,
José Luis.
Christopher Ingham
Oct 6, 2012, 1:50:35 AM10/6/12
to
On Oct 5, 8:30 pm, "J.L.Fernandez Blanco"
Nicolás Ávila Seoane in his reconstruction of the history of
mayorazgos in and around Plasencia (near Cáceres) from their
establishment c. 1300 concludes the introduction to the section on the
Monroys with the remark, “De la familia Monroy antes de la concesión
de los señoríos placentinos cabe destacar a Pedro Fernández de Monroy
y el artículo que le dedica José María Canal Sánchez-Pagín,”
footnoting it with the the article on the maestre de Santiago, which
seems to imply that Canal Sánchez-Pagín mentions various Placentines
named Pedro Fernández and Hernán (Fernán) Pérez (“Monroyes, Botes y
Almaraces: tres señoríos tempranos en el concejo de Plasencia,”_En la
España Medieval_27 (2004):132).
http://revistas.ucm.es/index.php/ELEM/article/view/23119
Antonio Franco Silva, in_Estudios sobre la nobleza y el régimen
señorial en el reino de Castilla (siglos XIV–mediados del XVI)_(Cadíz,
2006), p. 13, says that little is really known today about the origins
of the Monroy line, that concrete knowledg begins with the brothers
Nuño and Hernán Pérez (“el Viejo”), and that “ambos eran hijos de
Pedro Fernández de Monroy y de Mayor de Saavedra.” Assuming there is
something more substantive behind this latter claim beyond what
various seventeenth-century chroniclers say (Franco Silva does cite V.
Paredes, “El señorio de Monroy,”_Revista de Extramadura_7 (1905):550;
and 8 (1906):457), I thought I might go with the working assumption
that there is an interval of reliability in Pellicer, who names Mayor
as the wife of Pedro Fernández de Monroy. Pellicer, moreover, is quite
meticulous in citing sources (Aponte, Telles de Meneses, etc., all of
whom I already know are fallible) and quoting charters.
http://books.google.com/books?id=5u23YbyhpUQC&printsec=frontcover
I’ll post some Saavedra generations once (if) I’ve constructed a
tentative scheme.
As to Sancho Pérez de Varillas, I would be surprised if we have more
to work with than Zurita’s list of rico-omes who emigrated from
Navarre to Salamanca in 1254, reproduced in Pellicer _Memorial de la
calidad y servicios de Don Cristoval Alfonso de Solis_(1670), 7 verso,
7 recto.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZJ4cReHduqIC&pg=PA1
Christopher Ingham
mayorazgos in and around Plasencia (near Cáceres) from their
establishment c. 1300 concludes the introduction to the section on the
Monroys with the remark, “De la familia Monroy antes de la concesión
de los señoríos placentinos cabe destacar a Pedro Fernández de Monroy
y el artículo que le dedica José María Canal Sánchez-Pagín,”
footnoting it with the the article on the maestre de Santiago, which
seems to imply that Canal Sánchez-Pagín mentions various Placentines
named Pedro Fernández and Hernán (Fernán) Pérez (“Monroyes, Botes y
Almaraces: tres señoríos tempranos en el concejo de Plasencia,”_En la
España Medieval_27 (2004):132).
http://revistas.ucm.es/index.php/ELEM/article/view/23119
Antonio Franco Silva, in_Estudios sobre la nobleza y el régimen
señorial en el reino de Castilla (siglos XIV–mediados del XVI)_(Cadíz,
2006), p. 13, says that little is really known today about the origins
of the Monroy line, that concrete knowledg begins with the brothers
Nuño and Hernán Pérez (“el Viejo”), and that “ambos eran hijos de
Pedro Fernández de Monroy y de Mayor de Saavedra.” Assuming there is
something more substantive behind this latter claim beyond what
various seventeenth-century chroniclers say (Franco Silva does cite V.
Paredes, “El señorio de Monroy,”_Revista de Extramadura_7 (1905):550;
and 8 (1906):457), I thought I might go with the working assumption
that there is an interval of reliability in Pellicer, who names Mayor
as the wife of Pedro Fernández de Monroy. Pellicer, moreover, is quite
meticulous in citing sources (Aponte, Telles de Meneses, etc., all of
whom I already know are fallible) and quoting charters.
http://books.google.com/books?id=5u23YbyhpUQC&printsec=frontcover
I’ll post some Saavedra generations once (if) I’ve constructed a
tentative scheme.
As to Sancho Pérez de Varillas, I would be surprised if we have more
to work with than Zurita’s list of rico-omes who emigrated from
Navarre to Salamanca in 1254, reproduced in Pellicer _Memorial de la
calidad y servicios de Don Cristoval Alfonso de Solis_(1670), 7 verso,
7 recto.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZJ4cReHduqIC&pg=PA1
Christopher Ingham
Christopher Ingham
Oct 22, 2012, 3:00:35 PM10/22/12
to
On Oct 6, 1:50 am, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> España Medieval_27 (2004):132).http://revistas.ucm.es/index.php/ELEM/article/view/23119
son of Fernán Arias de Saavedra (Baticela). I realize the patronymic
rule is broken here, but Pellicer quotes the twelfth-century Pedro
Seguín, bishop of Orense, who says that Fernán Arias “tem nila a Pedro
Arias, et a Ioan Femandez, que Deus faça boos Cavaleiros” [17 verso].
I’ve not been able to find any modern literature that confirms this
claim, nor any information that would contadict it. Can anyone confirm
this filiation, or else tell me whether it’s possible to have “X Arias
son of Y Arias” in early twelfth-century Castile?
Christopher Ingham
wrote:
>
> Antonio Franco Silva, in_Estudios sobre la nobleza y el régimen
> señorial en el reino de Castilla (siglos XIV–mediados del XVI)_(Cadíz,
> 2006), p. 13, says that little is really known today about the origins
> of the Monroy line, that concrete knowledg begins with the brothers
> Nuño and Hernán Pérez (“el Viejo”), and that “ambos eran hijos de
> Pedro Fernández de Monroy y de Mayor de Saavedra.” Assuming there is
> something more substantive behind this latter claim beyond what
> various seventeenth-century chroniclers say (Franco Silva does cite V.
> Paredes, “El señorio de Monroy,”_Revista de Extramadura_7 (1905):550;
> and 8 (1906):457), I thought I might go with the working assumption
> that there is an interval of reliability in Pellicer, who names Mayor
> as the wife of Pedro Fernández de Monroy. Pellicer, moreover, is quite
> meticulous in citing sources (Aponte, Telles de Meneses, etc., all of
> whom I already know are fallible) and quoting charters.http://books.google.com/books?id=5u23YbyhpUQC&printsec=frontcover
> Antonio Franco Silva, in_Estudios sobre la nobleza y el régimen
> señorial en el reino de Castilla (siglos XIV–mediados del XVI)_(Cadíz,
> 2006), p. 13, says that little is really known today about the origins
> of the Monroy line, that concrete knowledg begins with the brothers
> Nuño and Hernán Pérez (“el Viejo”), and that “ambos eran hijos de
> Pedro Fernández de Monroy y de Mayor de Saavedra.” Assuming there is
> something more substantive behind this latter claim beyond what
> various seventeenth-century chroniclers say (Franco Silva does cite V.
> Paredes, “El señorio de Monroy,”_Revista de Extramadura_7 (1905):550;
> and 8 (1906):457), I thought I might go with the working assumption
> that there is an interval of reliability in Pellicer, who names Mayor
> as the wife of Pedro Fernández de Monroy. Pellicer, moreover, is quite
> meticulous in citing sources (Aponte, Telles de Meneses, etc., all of
>
> I’ll post some Saavedra generations once (if) I’ve constructed a
> tentative scheme.
>
Pellicer in_Casa de Saavedra_has Pedro Arias de Saavedra as the elder
> I’ll post some Saavedra generations once (if) I’ve constructed a
> tentative scheme.
>
son of Fernán Arias de Saavedra (Baticela). I realize the patronymic
rule is broken here, but Pellicer quotes the twelfth-century Pedro
Seguín, bishop of Orense, who says that Fernán Arias “tem nila a Pedro
Arias, et a Ioan Femandez, que Deus faça boos Cavaleiros” [17 verso].
I’ve not been able to find any modern literature that confirms this
claim, nor any information that would contadict it. Can anyone confirm
this filiation, or else tell me whether it’s possible to have “X Arias
son of Y Arias” in early twelfth-century Castile?
Christopher Ingham
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