Le Bouteiller (Baillon) new royal gateway
jean bunot
Guy I Le Bouteiller is better known as the spouse of Catherine de
Gavre d'Escornaix, dame de La Boissiere et de Vaux-sur-Orge, in her
own right a proven descendant of king Philippe II Auguste. He might as
well share with her a royal descent from king Louis VI.
Relying mainly on the work of Jean-Marc Roger, the authors of Table
d'ascendance de Catherine Baillon (herself a descendant of Guy I Le
Bouteiller) have found that he was the nephew of a Roger, seigneur de
Breaute. Indead, a contemporary document, a confirmation act dated
February 14 1418, describe namely Guy Le Bouteiller as Roger de
Breaute's nephew. The confirmation act is between "Rogier, seigneur de
Breaute, de Neville et de Maneval, conseillier et chambellan du duc de
Bourgongne et gouverneur du pays de Normendie" to "Gui Le Bouteillier,
chevalier, seigneur de la Bouteillerie, nostre nepveu" (transl. : to
Guy Le Bouteiller, seigneur de La Bouteillerie, knight, OUR NEPHEW).
After checking the various nephew/uncle possible relations and
eliminating several based on the chronology or the known family
history of the Breaute and allied familes, the authors concluded that
Guy Le Bouteiller was the son of Jean Le Bouteiller, seigneur de La
Bouteillerie, and logically an unnamed sister of Roger de Breaute.
The link between Le Bouteiller/Breaute is in itself most plausible. We
are dealing with to families from the same region in Normandie, both
closely associated with the Bourguignon/English faction of the Hundred
Years war, and therefore collaborators (in a French perspective of
view of course). Both Roger de Breaute and Guy Le Bouteiller are
councillors and chamberlains of the duke of Bourgogne at the same time
(Roger at least in 1418 and Guy between 1414/17). Both have occupied
important military fonctions in Normandie during the Burgundian
preponderance or English domination (Roger is already governor of
Normandie in 1418 and Guy is captain of the cities and castles of
Rouen and Dieppe from 1417 and chamberlain of the duke of Bedford in
1429).
But there is more. One of the Roger de Breaute ancestors, Guillaume de
Leon-Hacqueville, was seigneur de La Franche Bouteillerie. It is
interesting because Guy's father, Jean Le Bouteiller, was actually
seigneur de La Bouteillerie wich he might have acquired through
marriage with a Breaute heiress descended from Guillaume de Leon, in
this case the sister of Roger de Breaute. One might oppose that the
family name "Le Bouteiller" could justify a seigneurie called "La
Bouteillerie". That does not convinced me since Regnaut Le Bouteiller,
Jean's own father, a poor knight, did not appear to hold any feudal
tenure at all. The Le Bouteiller only became seigneurs at the next
generation, time of the proposed union with a sister of Roger de
Breaute. Please fell free to comment or complete the data.
Jean Bunot
The royal connection would go like this (without French accents) :
I
Louis VI le Gros, roi de France (1081-1137)
m. 1115, Adelaide de Savoie (+ 1154)
II
Pierre de France, seigneur de Courtenay, de Montargis, de
Chateaurenard, de Champignelles, etc (1126-1183)
m. 1150, Isabelle, dame de Courtenay et autres
III
Constance de Courtenay (+ aft. 1231)
m. 1188, Gasce de Poissy, seigneur de Chateaufort (+ 1189/90)
IV
Mahaut de Poissy, dame de Chateaufort (1212/67)
m. 1209, Bouchard I, seigneur de Marly, de Montreuil-Bonnin, de
Saissac et de Londres (+ 1226)
V
Bouchard II, seigneur de Marly, de Montreuil-Bonnin, etc (+ 1250)
m. 1233, Agnes de beaumont-en-Gatinais (+ aft. 1260)
VI
Isabelle de Marly, dame de Romanaville
m. 1256, Robert de Poissy, seigneur de Radepont et Malvoisine (+ 1258
before is father)
VII
Mahaut de Poissy, dame de Noyon-sur-Andelle, d'Hacqueville, de
Radepont, de Pont-Saint-Pierre, de Fontaine-sous-Jouy, d'Acquigny, etc
m. 1280, Hervé IV (V), des vicomtes de Leon, seigneur en partie de
Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais et de Senonches (+ 1304)
VIII
Guillaume de Leon, seigneur d'Hacqueville, de Fontaine-sous-Jouy, de
Crestot, de Pont-Saint-Pierre, de La Franche Bouteillerie, etc
m. c. 1315, Jeanne de Ferrieres
IX
Jean de Leon, seigneur d'Hacqueville, de Fontaine-sous-Jouy, de
Crestot, de Pont-Saint-Pierre, etc, capitaine de Chateau-Gaillard
(1369)
m. 1340, Jeanne de Varennes, dame de Menneval
X
Jeanne de Leon, dame de Menneval
m. 1364, Roger II, seigneur de Breaute, de Neville, de Drosay et de
Houville
XI
Ne... de Breaute, possibly heiress de La Franche Bouteillerie, sister
of Roger III, seigneur de Breaute, de Neville et de Menneval,
conseiller chambellan du duc de Bourgogne
m. c. 1380/85 Jean Le Bouteiller, seigneur de La Bouteillerie
(1382/1407)
X
Guy I Le Bouteiller, seigneur de La Vieuville, de La Bouteillerie et
de La Roche-Guyon, conseiller chambellan du duc de Bourgogne,
capitaine des villes et chateaux de Rouen et de Dieppe, bailli de
Rouen, maitre d'hotel du duc de Bedford (+ 1438), himself ancestor of
Catherine de Baillon (VIII degree)
Sources : Rene Jette, John P. DuLong, Roland-Yves Gagne, Gail F.
Moreau et Joseph A Dube. Table d'Ascendance de Catherine Baillon
(2001), p.195-96, 110-12, 124, 141; Jean-Marc Roger. "Guy Le
Bouteiller" in Actes du 101e Congres national des societes savantes.
Lille, 1976 (1978); Various articles in French periodical Heraldique
et Genealogie : de Leon (among others Patrice Birker), de Poissy
(Patrice Birker, Edouard de Saint-Phalle), de Marly (Edouard de
Saint-Phalle), de Breaute (Patrice Birker, Paul Leportier); and as
usual : Es; Pere Anselme de Sainte-Marie; La Chesnaye-des Bois et
Badier (article Breaute).
Roger LeBlanc
jean bunot wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Guy I Le Bouteiller is better known as the spouse of Catherine de
>Gavre d'Escornaix, dame de La Boissiere et de Vaux-sur-Orge, in her
>own right a proven descendant of king Philippe II Auguste. He might as
>well share with her a royal descent from king Louis VI.
>
message snipped
I'm very pleased to see this posting. I have also explored Guy Le
Bouteiller's speculative lines, which may lead as well to Robert I of
Dreux, also a son of Louis VI. I have been cautioned that of course it
hinges on the identification of Guy LeBouteillier's mother as a de
Breaute. I think Jean makes some very good points in his posting
regarding the political situation. If the lineage for Guy is proven
valid it also addresses concerns that Catherine de Gavre had married
'beneath' her.
jean bunot
> jean bunot wrote:
>
> I'm very pleased to see this posting. I have also explored Guy Le
> Bouteiller's speculative lines, which may lead as well to Robert I of
> Dreux, also a son of Louis VI. I have been cautioned that of course it
> hinges on the identification of Guy LeBouteillier's mother as a de
> Breaute. I think Jean makes some very good points in his posting
> regarding the political situation. If the lineage for Guy is proven
> valid it also addresses concerns that Catherine de Gavre had married
> 'beneath' her.
Thank you for your kind comments. A few thoughts of my own. Wether or
not any royal descent is ever proven for Guy Le Bouteiller, Catherine
de Gavre did marry beneath her and she did it twice. Her second
husband Simon Morhier, chevalier, seigneur de Villiers-le-Morhier was
as well from a small knightly lignage from Gatinais. The marriage was
probably made possible anyway because her successive spouses were at
that time proeminent political figures of the Anglo-burgundian
faction. Both had acquired extensive lands in occupied France through
the generosity of english monarchs, making them I suppose more
attractive potential match. Guy Le Bouteiller was for instance granted
the very important seigneurie of La Roche-Guyon, one of French Vexin
most impressive strongholds. Catherine de Gavre was herself the
younger of ten children of the baron d'Escornaix making her very
unlikely to inherite anything. Therefore without the perspective of an
important dowry maybe she was indead very content to have been married
at all. In my opinion it is possible she was married for political
reason to then a major Burgundian capitaine and chamberlain as a
reward being a distant relative of the duke of Bourgogne through her
Luxembourg/Brabant ancestry. That remote connection may have been the
real reason behind those essentially political unions.
I would be most interested if you could post the alledged ancestry
linking de Breaute and therefore potentially the Le Bouteiller to the
house of Dreux. I was not aware of that possibility. In advance I
thank you.
Jean Bunot
Roger LeBlanc
>I would be most interested if you could post the alledged ancestry
>linking de Breaute and therefore potentially the Le Bouteiller to the
>house of Dreux. I was not aware of that possibility. In advance I
>thank you.
>
>Jean Bunot
>
>
>
>
Here is the line as I have it. I've found almost all of this on Geneanet
databases or other on-line sources, so take that for what it's worth. I
would be glad to learn of any related information about these
individuals, where the trouble spots are and any known dates for them.
Many of the birthdates are my guesses for research purposes.
1. Guy I LeBouteillier c 1388-1438
2. Jean LeBouteillier c 1355 + 1408-13
3. N. de Bréauté c 1365-
6. Roger II de Bréauté c 1330-
7. Jeanne de Léon c 1340-
14. Jean de Léon c 1315-
15. Jeanne de Varennes c 1320-
28. Guillaume I de Léon c 1285-
29. Jeanne de Ferrières/Harcourt
56. Hervé V de Léon c 1255-11/4/1304
57. Mahaut de Poissy c 1263-1290
112. Hervé IV de Léon c 1225-
113. Jeanne de Rohan c 1235-
224. Hervé III de Léon c 1200-1241
225. Marguerite de Chateauneuf c 1205-
450. Hugues IV de Chateauneuf + 1229
451. Aliénor de Dreux c 1186- c 1255
902. Robert II de Dreux c 1153-28/12/1218
903. Yolande de Coucy c 1161-18/3/1222
1804. Robert I de Dreux 1124-11/10/1188
1805. Agnès de Baudement c 1130-24/7/1204
Roger LeBlanc