de ROYE GENEALOGY AS PER EMILE COET
Annie Natalelli-Waloszek
EXTREME CAVEAT this line...
Im going to go ahead & post this despite it's being somewhat dubious in spots.
The data is from Emile Coët's History of the village of Roye",
crosschecked against Père Anselme & Marcel Hemery, but who knows what they
based their divergences on; Coet used Anselme & apparently had reasons for diveging...
Hemery may have just had different hunches...Coet's using primary documentation
from deeds, court records, wills, charters, letters, &c so Im presenting his side of the
story, despite a few obvious typos & numbering
errors & an apparent confusion about the Mathieus... Still, faced with the
line shown by Anselme, I'd prefer Coet... partly because of the documentation
used to place folks on the line at that point, but also because of the greater completeness
of the line, leading to better chances of structuring things realistically...
mais il me faudrait BEAUCOUP plus de temps, motivation, et de cooperation
dans les archives, pour verifier plus loin...
I found a copy at the local library with handwritten notes, apparently
from somebody who knew what they were talking about... & lamenting
about the number of errors...since the book was part of a "lègues", I checked
the name of the owner of the book to see who knew so much about the
mistakes & the documents concerning them... & it was Coet himself!
it would be a blessing if they would re-edit the thing, corrected.
Everybody complains about Coet but everybody uses him, because it's
hard to do better with all those Jeans, Jeannes, & Mathieus running around
in the same time period...
In any case, I know there are several of you working on this, & that it
will be hard to get ahold of the book, so Ill post it so you can compare it to the
other sources around & make your own conclusions, omissions & mistakes...
He gives two ancestries & lines, for apparently the same Mathieu
sgr of Monchy, same period one from Raoul, the other from Jean IV
... hedging bets? meant to remove one of them later when he decided which
it was, then forgot? or pushed to publish before he was really ready (seems
to be the latter, as he complains in the preface of being pressured to
finish... a word to the wise author... better slow than sorry...)
Anyone having trouble with my Franglish is invited to use
Altavista's Babelfish on problem phrases, http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
but the names are unchanged to protect the innnocent... if there are any...
To get the tabs into place, widen the letter out to full screen; this isnt as clear a format
as I thought it would be, before I decided to go to the end.
As lines are followed out where they happen,
be careful to find the rest of the early lines, at the bottom...
THERE ARE NO MARIAGES BETWEEN DE ROYE AND DE GAVRE IN THIS BRANCH
Coet's work remains fabulously detailed & encyclopedic on the seigneurial line...
but there are other lines... here's his intro:
GENEALOGY OF THE LORDS OF ROYE The first lords of Roye were only officers, counts or lords of the manor, to which the counts
de Vermandois entrusted the guard of the castle-fort; later, they became owners of the stronghold of Roye, and did not exercise
royal authority. The lords de Roye were charged with the military government of the city; they were to carry out, orders regarding
raising troops & taxes from the commune, the county, or the châtellenie of which Roye was the chief town. The family of the lords of
Roye forms several branches; the eldest of each generation inheriting the castle, the other children lived Chessoy, Guerbigny, or
Plessier-de-Roye. They took also the name-title de Roye or Lords de Roye, but they did not have the authority with it and did not
carry the same weapons.A lot of folks named de Roye might hold office, but with varyingly close dégrés of relationship to the
warlord; Many lines had to be neglected to concentrate only on the seigneurial family of Roye. The lords of Roye dont seem to have
exerted any authority other than military, since their beginning. They were replaced in their functions by captains-gouvernerus who
assured the guard & defense of the fortress. The lords gone, the castle has mere owners, with a residence in the town, but not
exerting
any civil or military power on the Commune.
Annie's note: Hugues the Great is apparently, among other things, the fellow who built the Tower of Humières' Chateau during the
10th century) his daughter BEATRICE de VERMONDOIS, m HUGUES DE GOURNAY, heiress of HERBERT IV (d 1081) ...
but the Comté of ROYE went to Herb IV's nephew, HERBERT V...) (1. Hugues the Great, 2. Hugues Capet, 3. Herbert IV
Ct de Vermondois puis son neveu et petit fils, 4. Herbert V, 1er Sgr de ROYE)
I. HERBERT V aka HEBARS DE BOISE, nephew of Herbert IV de Vermandois, & Ist Count of Roye, Had
II. EVERARD (charte 1195) had :
1.ALBERIC m Odette, 2. RAOUL 3. GERARD abbé de St Aubert de Cambrai, 4. RIGORD m Elisabeth; ALBERIC m Odette/Ode ds charte 1143
A. ROUGUES DE ROYE m dau of RAOUL de COUDUN. acquires Monchy le Perreux à la maison de Roye; Raoul, Jean,
Mathieu, Guy et Jean IV de Roye, successivement seigneurs de Monchy.
B. AUBERT/HERBERT alive in 1130
C. ROGON/ROGIDON, paraît être le premier sire de Guerbigny auquel succéda Jean de Roye.
i. RAOUL
D. SIGER m Radegonde fille de Sr de Beaumetz
E. JEHAN charte 1176
F.MATHILDE m Renaud de MAILLY fils d'Anselme de MAILLY
(note lastCt de Roye Charles m a Mailly ofMontmorency)
i. RENAUD
ii. GUILLAUME
iii. SIMON DE MAILLY
2. RAOUL dans une charte 1112 de son père Everard
3. GERARD abbé de St Aubert de Cambrai
4. RIGORD m Elisabeth
A. VERMOND, doyen de la collégiale de Saint-Quentin (also, a cousin HUGUES, abbé Mr St Quentin)
i. HUGUES
B. AGNES
i. ALBERIC DE ROYE avait vivier de Lachelle (had unidentified cousin GUILLAUME de Roye
_________________________________________________________
let's carry out the line from Rougues:
A. ROUGUES DE ROYE (son of Alberic, son of Everard, son of Herbert V) laissa comme enfants:
i. DREUX dans chartes 1102-1190) d. St Jean d'Acre
ii. RORICON dans chartes 1175-1190 m Adelise ou Helvide de Guise,
fille de Guy, Sgr de Guise & d'Adeline de Montmorency. eut 7enfants
a. BARTHELEMY DE ROYE, Chambellan du Roi 1208
m Petronille de MONTFORT, fille de Simon de Montfort
& de Amicie de Beaumont, fonda l'abbaye de JOYENVAL, d 1234
+ALIX DE ROYE m. Ist mai 1205, Jean II, ct d'Alençon,
m. 2nd 1214, Raoul de Nesle, seigneur de Flavy.
+ AMICIE DE ROYE, m. Guillaume Crespin, sgr d'Eterpigny;
veuve, Amicie se fit nonne et abbesse de Frémy, à Cambrai.
Barthélemy d.s.p.(mâle), la seigneurie de Roye revint à Jean, son frère.
b. RAOUL sir de GUERBIGNY & de MONCHY
* JEAN DE ROYE, sgr de Roye
* RAOUL DE ROYE, sgr LaFerté en Ponthieu
au chef de sa femme, MARIE dame de
Laferté, issue des sgrs de Ville-sur-Illom
+MATHIEU I DE ROYE sgr
de Laferté & Monchy,)
m JEANNE de VENDEUIL
§ MATHIEU II
marechal France, sgr de Laferté,
m 1291, Margarite de Picquigny
d. before his mom Jeanne de Vendeuil
§SIGER
+MARIE DE ROYE m Aubert III
deHANGEST
§AUBERT IV
deHANGEST
§MARIE, m Jean,
sgr de
Valencourt
c. ROBERT DE ROYE grand prévot de l'église de Cambrai, en 1220.
d. PIERRE DE ROYE, chevalier, échiquetées d'argent et de sable au chef freité.
d. 2 mars 1248, enterré abbaye de Joyenval. laissa 6 enfants, tous dsp.:
1. Pierre, archidiacre de Noyon, enterré à l'abbaye de Joyenval.
2. Robert, inhumé même abbaye
3. Thibaut, (Arvisiger?) aussi enterré à Joyenval, mort avant Robert
4. Nicolas, soldat, puis,63rd évêque de Noyon, 1229
5. Barthelemy
6. Guillaume, archidiacre de Noyon, enterré Joyenval...
e. JEAN I, DE ROYE, sgr de Guerbigny et de Monchy, et, Barthélemy d.s.p.(mâle),
sgr de Roye; m Comtesse de HANGEST, heritière (possible JEAN I DE ROYE soit
même que JEAN II de HUMIERES m. JEANNE DE HANGEST m. 19 janvier 1424
qui m. 2nd Raoul de Soissons, sire de Coeuvres
1° MATHIEU I DE ROYE sgr de Guerbigny et de Monchy le Perreux.
batît convent de Monchy 1238, ordre Citeaux
m ALICE/ALIX, dame de Guirbigny; enterré Abbaye de Monchy; 5 enfants:
1+JEAN II DE ROYE, d. 1350?
m. une fille Thourotte-Offémont; eut 3enfants;
1§ MATHIEU II DE ROYE sgr de Roye
sire de Guerbigny et de Monchy;
1re noces, Yolande de Hangest-Genlis/Islande de HANGEST
§ MARIE DE ROYE,
dame de Roye, de Guerbigny, et de Monchy;
1st noces 1374 Alain de Mariny
2nd noces Jean V de Hangest, sire de Hangest & de Davencourt,
grandmaitre des Arbalétiers de France, veuf. Ils eurent: *Marie
de HANGEST de ROYE, dsp, ses biens retournèrent à la Maison de Roye,
à la branche cadette des sgrs du Plessier de Roye, branche de Mathieu III.)
Mathieu II m en 2nd noces, Marie de Floyon, dsp;
3e noces: 1 sep 1353, Isabelle ou Isabeau de Châtillon, (sp).
Mathieu inhumé à l'abbaye d'Ourscamp, Chapelle St Anne
2§ JEAN, chanoine de Senlis
en 1326, grand prévot de Cambrai
3§ PIERRE DE ROYE, doyen de
la collegiale de St-Quentin
2+MATHIEU III DE ROYE seigneur du Plessier
m. Marguerite de Ville:4 kids:
1§ MATHIEU IV sgr de Roye, du
Plessier et d'Aulnois. Capitaine-gouverneur Compiègne 1367; d 1380; à son château de Muret, qu'il possédait du chef de sa femme,
qu'il avait épousée en 1350, Jeanne de Chérisy, ou de Quierzy, dame de de Busancy, dau/Jean vicomte de Busancy et de Peronnelle de
Nesle, . Had 8 enfants:
1+ JEAN IV DE
ROYE
2+GUY DE ROYE
chanoine à Noyon, doyen de St-Quentin; vicomte de Busancy; avec Clément V,Avignon,
3+ MATHIEU dit
TRISTAN, sgr de Busancy et du Metz; m. JEANNE DE MONTCHEVREY, dame de Parma (1380) mourut en Espagne, sp.
4+ RAOUL DE ROYE
moine à l'abbaye de Saint-Médard de Soissons, puis prieur de l'abbaye de Ressons, abbé de Saint-Lucien de Beauvais (1383) En 1391, à
l'abbaye de Corbie
5+ DREUX dit
LANCELOT, sgr de Launoy, me. eaux & forêts du Languedoc; dsp à Nicopolis.
6+ BEATRIX DE
ROYE, m. Jean de Chatillon", sgr de Basoches et vidame de Châlons. d. déc 1388.
7+ REGNAULT,
chambellan du roi Philippe-de-Valois, sgr de Milly, & de Biare, prés Roye en 1392 Il servit en Flandre, Espagne, Portugal, Terre
Sainte, etc; Il était sgr de Missy-sur-Aisne, du chef de sa femme, ISABELLE de FERRIERES, dont il eut un fils : JEAN. Les habitantss
de Missy furent affranchis de la servitude par Isabelle, après la mort de son mari.
8+ JEANNE DE
ROYE, abbesse de Chelles, d 1399
2§ DREUX DE ROYE sgr de Cangy
3§ JEAN III DE ROYE dit le
Baudrain,
sgr de Lagny & Monchy m. Jeanne de Sains, had:
1+ JACQUELINE,
1406 m. Régnault III de Sassnoy, sgr de Ribécourt
2+ GUILLEMETTE
3+ JEAN V DE
ROYE chambellan et conseiller du roi ôtage en Angleterre pour le roi Jean-le-Bon jusqu'en 1374, sgr de Roye, de Quierry, de
Plessier-de-Roye m Jeanne de Béthune inhumés 1379 Chapelle St Anne à Ourscamp, près Monchy. (en 2e noces) m. Aleaume, châtelaine de
Berghes
1* MATHIEU V son of Jean V, sgr de Roye, de Busancy, Aubenois, Guerbigny, Moret, went to Hongrie & Bulgarie to bring back the body
of his deceased father, Jean III. & a precious relic from the last crusade, the skull of Sainte Anne, placed in the chapelle de Roye
à Ourscamp. Mathieu d abt 1440. 1st m Marguerite de Ghistelles, fille de Jean, seigneur de Ghistelles, en Flandre; m 2nd Catherine
de Montmorency; of Margarite, he had 3 kids:
1** GUY d 1463; m.v30 jan 1448, Jeanne de Maily, dame de Talmas, sp. ; Jeanne, become a widow, m. Eustache de Bouffier, sgr de
Vertaing, & had a son, Eustache, who made in 1497, an inventory of Carrépuits which he got from his stepmother, de Roye, thru her
first husband.
2**MARIE m 14252 Pierre d'Orgemont, sgr de Chantilly & Chambellan du roi; widowed she m in 1437, Rbt d'Estouteville, chevalier, sgr
de Bonneval, & d'Auzebosc near Yvetot (Normandy).
3**MARGARITE m 1425 Valeran de Soissons, sgr de Moreuil, prince de Poix, gov de Chauny for the duc of Burgundy 1431.
4** ISABEAU m Philipe, sgr of Ternant, chambellan to the duc of Burgundy & chevalier of the Toison d'Or. 1452.
Veuf, Mathieu V épousa 2nd, abt 1424, Catherine de Montmorency, (d 1455) vve de Laurent de Sainte-Beuve, chevalier, sgr de Vendeuil
(Oise) et de Montmorency-sur-Andelles, dont elle avait eu **une fille mariée à Robert d'Estouteville. Mathieu V & she had:
5** JEAN VI, heir to Matt V., sgr de ROYE, de Muret, de Plessier, d'Aulnois, de Lafaloise, de Breteuil, de Beausault, Vicomte de
Busancy, chambellan to the king -- was one of the most powerful men in Picardie. he m Blanche de Brosse, dau of Jean de Brosse, sgr
de Boussac et Maréchal de France; they had a dau Marie & 2 sons, Antoine.
1& MARIE m 1480 Philippe of Burgundy, count of Nevers & of Ronoy sur Serre, bastard of Jean of Burgundy; she brought in dowry the
Chateau of Quierry. When she died, he became a monk.
2& ANTOINE, sgr de ROYEd 1515; m Catherine de Sarrebruck comtesse de Roucy, dau of Robert V, count of Braine & Marie d'Amboise. She
brought as dowry Roucy, Pierrepont, Nizy le Comte, & the vidamie of Laon. They had 3 kids who died young : JEAN, ANNE, & MARGE... &
CHARLES, the last male heritier de ROYE :
1 @CHARLES, comte de Roucy & de Braine, vicomte de Busancy & de Commercy, sgr du Plessier-de-Roye, de Pierrepont, Nisy, Chacrise,
Loisy, Bricuenay, Hartennes, Coulommiers, Taux, Villemontoire, Nanteuil, & Vidame du Lacenois. m in the presence of François Ier, at
the Chateau of St Germain in Laye, MADELEINE DE MAILLY, heritière de Ferry de Mailly, sgr de Conti, & of Louise de Montmorency.
Charles d 1551 at 45 years of age; he had Charles, Leonor, & Charlotte:
1¤CHARLES II died before his father did, at 18
2¤ LEONOR b 1535, m at 16, in 1551, Louis Ier de Bourbon, prince de Condé; she became thereby the aunt of Henry IV. They had : #
HENRI Ier DE BOURBON m. MARIE DE CLEVES dau of François, duc de Cleves & of Marguerite de Bourbon, sister of Louis prince de Condé.
after the death of his wife, Henri remarried to Charlotte de la Trienouille, who gave him a son posthumously in 1588, ##HENRI II de
BOURBON... etc
3¤ CHARLOTTE m. 1557 François de La Rochefoucault, petit-fils de Françoisde LaRochefoucault, petite ville de l'Angoumois made a
comté, specially for them...
When JEAN VI became a widower, he m 2nd MARGUERITE Du BOIS de FIENNES, dau of Jean Du Bois, sgr of Noyelles & Catherine de
Cuamesnil, her mother, who was widow of François count de Larochefoucault, which line turns up later in the Condé line that sprouts
from CHARLES dau marrying into the Montmorency-Bourbon line.
Jean died in 1498 & was buried in Ourscamp in the family chapel. his widow, Catherine, remarried the following year to Oliver de
la Vernade, son of Jean, sgr of Querdes & Catherine de HARCOURT; Oliver was ambassador to England for the French king François Ier.
JEAN VI DE ROYE AND MARGUERITE Du BOIS de FIENNES, had a son
3& FLORENT DE ROYE who heads the branch of the counts of Roye-Wicken. Florent, chevalier, sgr de Guerbigny, de Muret, d'Epagny m.
JEANNE DE GHISTELLES (a little inbreeding here?) & had 2 kids: BERNARD & MARIE.
4& PHILIPPE
5& FRANCOIS
6& ADRIENNE
6** JEANNE DE ROYE,
m. Jean de Sainte-Beuve, dont elle eut 1 fille, ANTOINETTE & un fils, ANTOINE de SAINT BEUVE, qui épousa Marie de Marchis, et qui
mourut vers 1504.
2*JEANNE (dau Jean V)m. le 14 mai 1304 à Jean de Créquy, dont elle eut une fils, appèlé: Créquy-l'Etendard, à cause des nombreux
drapeaux qu'il prit aux Anglais, il fut chevalier de la Toison d'or, Jeanne mourut en 1434.
3*MARIE
m.1365, Thibaut, sgr de Rivery, dsp (JEAN V m. en 2e noces) Aleaume, châtelaine de Berghes, dont il eut:
4*JEANNETTE OU JEANNE, m. 1400 à Aubert de Hangest, sgr d'Archillières, chambellan de Louis dauphin, duc de Guyenne; dont elle eut :
GUILLAUME DE HANGEST mort sans alliance, et CLAUDE DE HANGEST tué au siège de Pontoise, en 1441.
3° JEAN dit Le Beau, sgr de Meillancourt, de Cangy et
d'Happencourt, m. Marie de Cidellon, fille de Jean, sgr de Dours, et de Béatrix de Chantervillain. Jean d. 1416; Veuve, Jeanne de
Sains m. de Huppe de Savignies, chevalier, Lt. de Raoul de Goscourt, capt. de Noyen; Jean & Jeanne had: *AUBERT de ROYE, dsp:
4§ MARIE DE ROYE, m. abt 1397,
Rbt de Clary, dit Fauvel,
chevalier.
3+ALBERT DE ROYE, évêque Laon, d. 25 avril 1336
4+ARNOUL, Archidiacre de Cambrai
5+PIERRE, Sgr de Maurecourt,enquets eaux&forêts
6+DREUX DE ROYE, sire de Guerbigny, m. Alix de
Gorlande, fille de Jean de Gorlande,
2° FLORENT DE ROYE, m. Emmeline de Marigny,
fille de Jean de Gibebet de Massigny, chevalier.
3° MARIE DE ROYE, m.1282Rbt de Wavrin, sire de Saint-Venant
4° COLARD DE ROYE, Chevalier, sgr de Dury, m. Béatrix,
lègue terres àl'abbaye de Sainte-Marie,Monchy
f. MARIE DE ROYE dame de Brafers, m. Jean de Peissy: 1 fils, Simon de Peissy
g. NN?
sources:
Emile Coët, Histoire de la Village de Roye, 1880 utilsant chartes et documents originaux
Chronique de l'histoire de Roye par André Ducastel & D. Pinosa (dérivé de Coët)
Hémery dans 'Monchy-Humières, un petit village de la Vallée de l'Aronde"
"Histoire de Compiègne" Blanchet, Callais, et al
Amadée Renée " Princes Militaires de la Maison de France" 1848
Foissart ; Chroniques
Père Anselm; Histoire de la Maison de France
Annie Natalelli-Waloszek
well I thought folks following the posts on this would have picked up those details
on one of the previous posts...
You may find more links to Prince Wm by starting higher on the line...
try running thru Henry the Fowler, who does link to this line
thru Herbert I, IIRC ...
1. Charlemagne & Hildegarde of Vinzgau had
2. Pepin, king of Italy m Gondies or Therres, had
3. Bernard, king of Italy m Cunigonde; b 797 Lombardie, d 818 Milan; had
4. Pepin, Lord of Peronne, had
5. Herbert I, Count of Vermandois born abt 840. m Bertha de Morvois. He died 900/2 at 60 years of age. Herbert or Hubert I aka
Seigneur de Senlis, Peronne and St. Quentin; gained his titles in 896. En 922, Charles le Simple déclare la guerre à Herbert ler et
s'empare de la forteresse de Roye. (so déjà dans les mains des ancetres d'Herbert Ier).
6. Herbert II Ct de Vermandois, m Liegarde or Hildebranda of the West Franks; Had Rbt I of France & Albert I, Ct de Vermandois)
(ACCORDING TO FTM, UA #100, Herb II's dau, Adela, m ARNULF, Ct of FLANDRES, had BALDWIN III, Ct of Flandres, who had BALDWIN IV
COUNT OF FLANDRES & HAINAULT (see thread Descent from Adelaide (sister of the Conqueror) to Philippa of Hainaut & line posted by
Ravillious)
7. Robert I King of France born 866 in France. married Adelaide of Alsace ABT 890. son of Herbert I Ct Vermondois (another source:
He married ABT 895 Beatrice of Vermandois born 880 died AFT 931?); Robert died 15 JUN 923 in Soissons, Aisne, France, at 56 years of
age.
7. ALBERT I, "the Pious" Ct de VERMONDOIS, b abt 920 d 9 sep 988) m abt 954 Gerberges of HAINAULT (SON: Herbert III, Ct de
VERMONDOIS, who's son HERBERT V succeds HERBERT IV...)
7. HENRY I son fils: HERBERT IV, Ct de VERMONDOIS? (une autre source, Amadée René, 1848, dit qu'il est fils d'Hugues le Grand)
8. Hugues le Grand, ancêtre des Capétiens, 932, siezes forteresse de Roye & his son, Hugues Capet , in 987 confirmes possession of
the Chateau de Roye to his grandson Herbert lV ... Hugue's daughter, BEATRICE de VERMONDOIS, m HUGUES DE GOURNAY EN BRAY... & was
heiress of HERBERT IV... but the Comté of ROYE went to HERBERT V...
It behooves me to mention that there are two Hugues the Great... the second being a Count of Vermondois, but considerably later so
not involved in this part of the line.
How're things, Ian?
Annie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Fettes" <fet...@st.net.au>
To: "Annie Natalelli-Waloszek" <xan...@wanadoo.fr>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: de ROYE GENEALOGY AS PER EMILE COET
> Hello Annie,
>
> Greetings.
>
> You have done a great job here in listing out this line - well done. My
> interest in it is fairly limited as I can only see one link so far (I'm
> still checking) to Prince William. This is through Mathieu II and
> Marguerite de Picquigny. Your details now give me a new bunch of ancestors
> beyond Mathieu II parents.
>
> However, at the start you mention that Herbert V is the nephew of Herbert IV
> de Vermandois. Do you know the details of that linkage?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ian
>
> Ian Fettes
> Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
> Replyto:fet...@st.net.au
>
>