LANE & PIGOT (documenting a line)

[Louise Staley]

Having had my interest piqued as to whether I could adequately
document a line with sufficient proofs for acceptance into Royal
Bastards (even though I may in the end not apply), this is my first
attempt.

Up front I'll say the sticky generations are 9 and 10. CP covers 1 -
7, there's a copy of the marriage settlement extant for 8 that
documents the relationships, I have relevant wills for 11 - 17 and
modern records for 18 - 22.

So what I'm trying to "prove" is that Mary Lane is the daughter of Sir
Ralph Lane of Horton and his wife Maud Parr and then that Mary Pigot
is the daughter of Mary Lane and Thomas Pigot of Dodershall, Bucks.

I have sources for these two connections, it's just that they are
neither primary nor contemporary. Lipscomb's Bucks and the ODNB (Maud
Lane's entry) say Mary is a daughter of Ralph Lane and Maud Parr and
then ODNB, Henry Atkins's entry, says his wife was the daughter of
Thomas Pigot. The Pigot Roll places Mary as the 4th daughter of Thomas
Pigot.

I have two questions; first, assuming the information I've provided is
correctly cited, does this look like acceptable proof for all except
generations 9 and 10? Second, does anyone have proof of the calibre
seemingly required for 9 & 10?

cheers
Louise

1. Edward III, King of England
2. John 'of Gaunt', K.G., Duke of Lancaster
3. Joan Beaufort
4. Sir Richard Neville, K.G., Earl of Salisbury
5. Alice Neville
6. Elizabeth FitzHugh
7. Sir William Parr, Baron Parr of Horton
8. Maud Parr married Sir Ralph Lane of Horton
9. Mary Lane married Thomas Pigot of Dodershall, Bucks
10. Mary Pigot
11. Sir Henry Atkins of Clapham
12. Sir Richard Atkins Bart. of Clapham
13. Rebecca Atkins
14. Rev. Beaumont Dixie, Rector of Market Bosworth
15. Rev. Beaumont Dixie, Curate of Battlefield
16. Richard Thomas Dixie of Gelli Deg
17. Harriet Dixie
18. Thomas Beaumont Waters
19. Harriet Eleanor Waters
20. Dulcie Harriet Sheather
21. Living
22. Louise Staley

Sources
1. CP
2. CP
3. CP
4. CP
5. CP
6. CP
7. CP
8. A2A G(H)260 Parr-Lane marriage settlement
9.
10.
11. Will of Henry's father
12. Will of Richard's father
13. Will of Rebecca describing herself as daughter of Sir Richard
Atkins, baronet
14. Will of Beaumont's mother
15. Will of Beaumont's grandmother
16. A series of wills, which together prove he was the son of the
Reverend Beaumont Dixie (1737-1786).
17. Wills of Harriet's father and mother
18. 1851 Welsh census showing Thomas with his parents, copy of
Carmarthen parish register for his birth 1789 showing names of
parents, copy of Llandefeiliog parish register showing marriage of his
parents.
19. Harriet's birth registration
20. Dulcie's birth registration
21. birth certificate
22. Louise's birth certificate

[Kate Wingrove]

Hi Louise (and list)

I have recently subscribed to this list, and now feel compelled to
make my
first post as I would like to let Louise know that we share ancestors
1- 8 from her list.

Sir Ralph Lane left a will which is available online

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=6&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1

I haven't concentrated on the lines back from Ralph Lane and Maud Parr
for a long time so I have not applied for his will myself. It may
mention his daughters.

Just an idea. Good luck!

Kate

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and
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[Louise Staley]

Thanks Kate,

I have looked at that will both in the PRO image 11/28 and in
Testamenta Vetusta, p. 689. Unfortunately while it does confirm Ralph
Lane's wife was named Maud it doesn't mention any children.

cheers
Louise

On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:32:42 +1000, Kate Wingrove <wing...@mac.com>
wrote:

>Hi Louise (and list)
>
>I have recently subscribed to this list, and now feel compelled to
>make my
>first post as I would like to let Louise know that we share ancestors
>1- 8 from her list.
>
>Sir Ralph Lane left a will which is available online
>
>http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=6&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1
>
>I haven't concentrated on the lines back from Ralph Lane and Maud Parr
>for a long time so I have not applied for his will myself. It may
>mention his daughters.
>
>Just an idea. Good luck!
>
>Kate
>
>On 04/10/2008, at 6:50 PM, Louise Staley wrote:
>

<snip>

>>
>> I have sources for these two connections, it's just that they are
>> neither primary nor contemporary. Lipscomb's Bucks and the ODNB (Maud
>> Lane's entry) say Mary is a daughter of Ralph Lane and Maud Parr and
>> then ODNB, Henry Atkins's entry, says his wife was the daughter of
>> Thomas Pigot. The Pigot Roll places Mary as the 4th daughter of Thomas
>> Pigot.
>>
>> I have two questions; first, assuming the information I've provided is
>> correctly cited, does this look like acceptable proof for all except
>> generations 9 and 10? Second, does anyone have proof of the calibre
>> seemingly required for 9 & 10?
>>
>> cheers
>> Louise

<snip>

[Kevin Bradford]

I have Thomas Pigott, Esq., of Doddershall, Buckinghamshire 1520, Lord of Grendon and Edgecott, Sheriff of Buckinghamshire 1552 and 1557. His wife was Katherine Langstone. Since you didn't list the vitals I cannot say which generation that this might fit.

Kevin> From: car...@bigpond.com> Subject: LANE & PIGOT (documenting a line)> Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 08:50:22 +0000> To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com> > Having had my interest piqued as to whether I could adequately> document a line with sufficient proofs for acceptance into Royal> Bastards (even though I may in the end not apply), this is my first> attempt.> > Up front I'll say the sticky generations are 9 and 10. CP covers 1 -> 7, there's a copy of the marriage settlement extant for 8 that> documents the relationships, I have relevant wills for 11 - 17 and> modern records for 18 - 22.> > So what I'm trying to "prove" is that Mary Lane is the daughter of Sir> Ralph Lane of Horton and his wife Maud Parr and then that Mary Pigot> is the daughter of Mary Lane and Thomas Pigot of Dodershall, Bucks.> > I have sources for these two connections, it's just that they are> neither primary nor contemporary. Lipscomb's Bucks and the ODNB (Maud> Lane's entry) say Mary is a daughter of Ralph Lane and Maud Parr and> then ODNB, Henry Atkins's entry, says his wife was the daughter of> Thomas Pigot. The Pigot Roll places Mary as the 4th daughter of Thomas> Pigot.> > I have two questions; first, assuming the information I've provided is> correctly cited, does this look like acceptable proof for all except> generations 9 and 10? Second, does anyone have proof of the calibre> seemingly required for 9 & 10?> > cheers> Louise> > 1. Edward III, King of England> 2. John 'of Gaunt', K.G., Duke of Lancaster> 3. Joan Beaufort> 4. Sir Richard Neville, K.G., Earl of Salisbury> 5. Alice Neville> 6. Elizabeth FitzHugh> 7. Sir William Parr, Baron Parr of Horton> 8. Maud Parr married Sir Ralph Lane of Horton> 9. Mary Lane married Thomas Pigot of Dodershall, Bucks> 10. Mary Pigot> 11. Sir Henry Atkins of Clapham> 12. Sir Richard Atkins Bart. of Clapham> 13. Rebecca Atkins> 14. Rev. Beaumont Dixie, Rector of Market Bosworth> 15. Rev. Beaumont Dixie, Curate of Battlefield> 16. Richard Thomas Dixie of Gelli Deg> 17. Harriet Dixie> 18. Thomas Beaumont Waters> 19. Harriet Eleanor Waters> 20. Dulcie Harriet Sheather> 21. Living> 22. Louise Staley> > Sources> 1. CP > 2. CP> 3. CP > 4. CP > 5. CP > 6. CP > 7. CP > 8. A2A G(H)260 Parr-Lane marriage settlement> 9. > 10. > 11. Will of Henry's father> 12. Will of Richard's father> 13. Will of Rebecca describing herself as daughter of Sir Richard> Atkins, baronet> 14. Will of Beaumont's mother> 15. Will of Beaumont's grandmother> 16. A series of wills, which together prove he was the son of the> Reverend Beaumont Dixie (1737-1786).> 17. Wills of Harriet's father and mother> 18. 1851 Welsh census showing Thomas with his parents, copy of> Carmarthen parish register for his birth 1789 showing names of> parents, copy of Llandefeiliog parish register showing marriage of his> parents.> 19. Harriet's birth registration> 20. Dulcie's birth registration> 21. birth certificate> 22. Louise's birth certificate> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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[Louise Staley]

That Thomas Pigott who married Katharine Langstone is the father of
the Thomas Pigott who married Mary Lane. The one who married Mary Lane
was born about 1534 and was buired 1 May 1606 at Hogshaw, Bucks.

[WJho...@aol.com]

How come you didn't mention the Vis Northampton ?
It shows at least that Ralph Lane and Maud Parr had a daughter Mary Pigott

_http://books.google.com/books?id=wLgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA186&dq=%22Ralph+Lane%22+Horton&num=50&as_brr=3#PPA186,M1_ (http://books.google.com/books?id=wLgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA186&dq="Ralph+Lane"+Horton&num=50&as_brr=3#PPA186,M1)

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[Louise Staley]

That would be because I haven't looked at it. Thanks for the pointer.

I would note that I am not doubting the line I presented holds, only
that according to the strict standards of the Royal Bastards I cannot
"prove" 2 of the generations.

Since I originally posted I have found the MI for Henry Atkins M.D.
and this identifies his wife Mary as his only wife and as the daughter
of Thomas Pigot of Doddershall, Bucks.

Henry Atkins, Dr. in Physick, Physician in Ordinary for the space of
32 Years to King James and King Charles, was the Son of Richard Atkins
of Great Berkhamstead in this County Hertford. Gent, and dyed Anno
1635. Aged 77, and lyeth here interred in this Vault, which he caused
to be made Anno 1623 for himself and his only Wife Mary, whom he then
Buried here, aged 56, who was Daughter of Thomas Pigot of
Doderish-Hall in the County of Bucks, Esq. They had Issue only one Son
Sir Henry Atkins, Kt. who dwelling at Clapham in the County of Surry,
died Anno 1638. Aged 44, and lyes here Buried by his own appointment.
Henry Chauncy, The Historical Antiquities of Hertfordshire (London:
J.M. Mullinger, 1826), 589

From the standpoint of contemporary evidence this would appear to
qualify, leaving only proof required for Mary Lane as a daughter of
Maud Parr.

The ODNB entry for Maud Parr says,
"The couple had ten children: three sons, Robert (b. 1529), Ralph
(later governor of Virginia, d. 1603), and William; and seven
daughters, including Frances (married Sir George Turpin), Lettice
(married Peter Wentworth), Mary (married Thomas Pigot), Jane (married
first Lewis Montgomery and second Thomas Bawde), Dorothy (married Sir
William Fielding), and Katherine (married John Osborne)."
James, Susan E, Lane , Maud , Lady Lane (c.1507-1558/9) (Oxford
Dictionary of National Biography(Oxford, OUP, 2004) ,
[http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/70800, accessed 24 Sept 2005]).
ODNB cites: S. E. James, Kateryn Parr: the making of a queen (1999) ·
LP Henry VIII, vols. 17–18, 21 · CPR, 1547–8, 361; 1549–51, 193, 386;
1558–60, 99 · exchequer, king's remembrancer, accounts various, PRO,
E101/423/12, fol. 3b · The acts and monuments of John Foxe, ed. S. R.
Cattley, 8 vols. (1837–41), vol. 5 · Parr–Lane marriage settlement,
1517, Northants. RO · S. E. James, ‘Lady Jane Grey or Queen Kateryn
Parr?’, Burlington Magazine, 138 (1996), 20–24 · T. Blore, The history
and antiquities of Rutland (1811) · W. C. Metcalfe, ed., The
visitations of Northamptonshire made in 1564 and 1618–19 (1887).

None of these sources jumps out at me as being likely to offer
contemporary or primary evidence Mary Lane was the daughter of Maud
Parr except perhaps one will reproduce an MI.

Louise

[WJho...@aol.com]

The Vis Northampton states that for this family it is "tabulated as in 1564" and then continues.
1564 seems fairly close to contemporary.
At least much more so, than the ODNB, it would certainly seem like at least worth a look to see who signed it. If for example it was Sir Robert Lane himself, you'd think he'd know his own mother's maiden name.

Will Johnson

[Louise Staley]

True, you would think he would. Similarly the Pigott Roll in Aylesbury
Records Office is dated 1598 when these people were living and it was
complied under the watchful eye of one of the Heralds so one would
think it would be reliable as well.

Can you tell me how one goes about finding out who signed the original
Visitation record in this particular case, as I notice the printed
pedigree omits this, unlike some other Visitations where it is
included.

Louise

[WJho...@aol.com]

In a message dated 10/7/2008 2:05:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
car...@bigpond.com writes:

Can you tell me how one goes about finding out who signed the original
Visitation record in this particular case, as I notice the printed
pedigree omits this, unlike some other Visitations where it is
included.>>

----------------
I've never done it, but I believe someone on this list (or who used to be)
has stated that you can get a copy of the original items from the College of
Heralds or whatever it's called.

The Visitation books that we are familiar with, are edited, translated,
condensed or sometimes expanded, versions of what the originals actually state.