Complete Peerage Correction: Ancestry of Fitzwilliam family of Milton
Douglas Richardson
The authoritative Complete Peerage, 5 (1926): note on pp. 518-520 (sub
Fitzwilliam), quotes W. Paley Baildon, F.S.A., who expressed doubt as
to the accuracy of the commonly accepted pedigree of the Fitzwilliam
family of Milton. Specifically, Baildon doubted that John Fitzwilliam,
Esq., of Green's Norton, Northamptonshire, husband of Helen Villiers,
was the 6th son of Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417), of Emley,
Yorkshire, by his wife, Eleanor Greene.
Baildon rejected the connection in very specific terms: "Reverting to
John F. of Green's Norton, the alleged 6th son of Sir John of Emley, I
have never found any reference to him in any document, and neither he
nor his family are mentioned in any of the numerous fifteenth-century
wills of members of the Yorkshire branches of the family [for which see
Surtees Soc., Test. Ebor., passim]. This, of course, does not prove
his non-existence, but I doubt if he could have been the father of Sir
William who bought Milton. John cannot have been born, at the latest,
more than a few months after his father's death on 5 July 1417, and it
may have been some years earlier (his eldest brother, the first John,
was born on 15 Aug. 1397. I do not know when Sir William I of Milton
was born - his age is not given on his brass at Marham - but his son,
Sir William II of Milton, was born in 1503 or 1504 (Inq. p.m., C., ser.
II, vol. 57, no. 3). Thus we have a period of 86 years to cover two
generations; it is not physically impossible, but demands strict
proof." END OF QUOTE
Conclusive evidence regarding the correct ancestry of the Fitzwilliam
family of Milton is found in several sources. The earliest visitation
of the Fitzwilliam family is one dated 1480-1490, which record appeared
in print after the account in Complete Peerage was published. This
ancient pedigree shows that Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417), husband
of Eleanor Greene, had a large family of children, including six sons,
John, Nicholas, Ralph, Robert, William, and John styled "junior", and
two daughters, Maud (wife of John Bossewell) and Joan (died as a child)
[Reference: Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144)
(1930): 76-78]. It is clear from this pedigree that Sir John
Fitzwilliam (died 1417) in fact had two sons named John, the younger
one being his 6th son.
This statement is vouched by two subsequent visitations of the
Fitzwilliam family, albeit a bit later in date. First, the 1566
Visitation of Bedfordshire shows that Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417)
married Eleanor Greene, and states that their son, John Fitzwilliam,
married Helen Villiers:
"Sir John ffitzwill'm of Sprotborough Knight sonne and heire =
Eleanor daughter of Sir Henry Grene Knight."
/
"John ffitzwill'm of Gaynspark hall in com. Essex and of Melton in
com. Northampt. ar. = Helene daughter of Will'm Villers of Brokisby
ar.") [Reference: Vis. of Bedfordshire 1566, 1582, 1634 & 1669
(H.S.P. 19) (1884): 27-29 (1566 Vis.) (Fitzwilliam pedigree)].
The above visitation errs in saying that John Fitzwilliam, husband of
Helen Villiers, was of Gaynes Park, Essex and Milton, Northamptonshire,
as these properties are known to have been later acquisitions of John
and Helen's son, Sir William Fitzwilliam, merchant of London. Instead,
it appears that John Fitzwilliam was actually of Green's Norton,
Northamptonshire, as indicated by Harl. MS. 5867.
The 1592 Visitation of Lincolnshire correctly identifies John
Fitzwilliam, husband of Helen Villiers, as the 6th son of Sir John
Fitzwilliam (died 1417). It likewise states that John, husband of
Helen, was of Green's Norton, Northamptonshire:
"John Fitz Williams of Grenes Norton in Northon, 6 son of Sir John by
Elenor his wife, da. to Scene [Grene] of Drayton = Helen, da. to
William Villers of Brookesbie" [Reference: Genealogist, 6 (1882):
150].
The historian, Mary E. Finch, in her book, Five Northamptonshire
Families, published in 1956, cites the problem of the long generations
between John Fitzwilliam (died 1417) and his alleged grandson, Sir
William Fitzwilliam (died 1534), ancestor of the Milton Fitzwilliams.
Finch, however, documented that about 1565 members of Sir William
Fitzwilliam's family aided their kinsman, Hugh Fitzwilliam, in his
attempt to recover Fitzwilliam family lands. Hugh Fitzwilliam was then
heir male of Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417), he being descended from
John's 3rd son, Ralph, whereas Sir William and his line descended
from John, 6th son of the same John (died 1417)]. Finch says the
following:
"For waging this war, he [Hugh] collected many evidences; and in 1565
he compiled a detailed genealogy, the basis of all subsequent
pedigrees. To attest the authority of this record, Hugh procured the
signature of eleven members of the house of Fitzwilliam, including the
Milton family." [Reference: Finch, Five Northamptonshire Fams.
(Northamptonshire Rec. Soc. 19) (1956): 188-189].
In this statement, Finch is somewhat in error. As stated above, there
was in fact a prior visitation pedigree taken c. 1480-1490, which
pedigree predates Hugh Fitzwilliam's genealogy by some 75-85 years.
The information in the earlier pedigree appears to corroborate Hugh
Fitzwilliam's genealogy. Further, the helpful online A2A Catalogue
(see item below) indicates that the genealogy prepared by Hugh
Fitzwilliam in 1565 was signed by a total of thirteen male members of
the Fitzwilliam family, and no less than six Heralds of the College of
Arms. To say that the 1565 genealogy was well attested is an
understatement.
Finch further reveals that Hugh Fitzwilliam subsequently left his
Milton cousins all of his evidences and much of his personal property,
making them his executors. Finch provides no date or probate
information for the will of Hugh Fitzwilliam, but this will serves as
excellent evidence that Hugh Fitzwilliam, the heir male of Sir John
Fitzwilliam (died 1417), believed that he was near related to the
Fitzwilliam family of Milton.
Neither Complete Peerage nor Finch, however, was aware of the
connection between the London merchant, Sir William Fitzwilliam (died
1534), and his cousin, Lady Maud (Greene) Parr. The two parties were
evidently related through Sir William's grandmother, Eleanor Greene,
wife of John Fitzwilliam (died 1417). In the will of Lady Parr dated
20 May 1529, proved 14 Dec. 1531, she specifically states: "....and
if it that chaunce happen that all my said childerne dye, then my
cousin Sir William FitzWilliam knight to have oon hundrith
poundes...") [Reference: Nichols, Wills from Doctors' Commons
(Camden Soc. 83) (1863): 9-20]. Lady Parr is perhaps better known to
most British genealogists as the mother of Queen Katherine Parr, wife
of King Henry VIII of England.
Summarizing the above, it appears that the placement of the Fitzwilliam
family of Milton in the Fitzwilliam family pedigree is attested by a
series of visitations and by a private family genealogy collected c.
1565 by Hugh Fitzwilliam, which genealogy was approved by six Heralds
of the College of Arms. The placement of the Fitzwilliam family of
Milton is also confirmed by the wills of Hugh Fitzwilliam and Lady Maud
Parr cited above, both of which individuals indicated that they were
near related to the Milton family. In fact, the only way Sir William
Fitzwilliam, of London and Milton, could be related to both Hugh
Fitzwilliam and to Lady Parr was if he was descended from Sir John
Fitzwilliam (died 1417) and his wife, Eleanor Greene.
Further particulars on the Fitzwilliam family can be found in Douglas
Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry (2004) and in Douglas Richardson,
Magna Carta Ancestry (2005).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
+ + + + + + + + + +
Source: A2A Catalogue (http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp)
Northamptonshire Record Office: Fitzwilliam (Milton) Rolls, Estate and
Family
FITZWILLIAM (MILTON) ROLLS, ESTATE AND FAMILY
ROLLS: PEDIGREES, ARMS, ETC. - ref. F(M) roll/434 - date: 1564
[from Scope and Content]
At the foot are declarations signed by
(1) Hugh Fitzwilliame of Sprotbrogh,
(2) W Fitzwilliam de Lincolne,
(3) Gearvis Fitzwilliam, of Bentley,
(4) John Fytzwyllyam, of Milton,
(5) Bryan Fytzwylliam, of Gaines Park in Essex,
(6) William Fitzwilliam the eldest son to John Fitzwilliam of Kingesley
in Hamshier,
(7) William Fytzwilliam, of Plomtre,
(8) John Fitzwilliam son and heyre to Richard Fytzwilliam, of Kingshed,
(9) Thomas Fitzwilliam eldest son to Frauncis lord of Fenton,
(10) George Fitzwilliam of Haddelsaye,
(11) Charles Fytzwylliam de Sawndbie in Com.Nott.,
(12) John Fitzwilliam, of Bentley, and
(13) William Fitzwilliam, son and heir of Sir William Fitzwilliam of
Mylton;
and by the following Heralds, etc. "Will. Hervy, Clarencieulx, G.
Dethicke als. Garter, Principall King of Armes, Ro. Cooke Alias Chester
Herald of Armes, Wylliam Flower alias Norroy Roy d'armes, Nicholas
Dethick als.Blumantell, Rugecrosse als.Cotgrave and Edmond Knyght
als.Rouge Dragon".
mj...@btinternet.com
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> The historian, Mary E. Finch, in her book, Five Northamptonshire
> Families, published in 1956, cites the problem of the long generations
> between John Fitzwilliam (died 1417) and his alleged grandson, Sir
> William Fitzwilliam (died 1534), ancestor of the Milton Fitzwilliams.
> Finch, however, documented that about 1565 members of Sir William
> Fitzwilliam's family aided their kinsman, Hugh Fitzwilliam, in his
> attempt to recover Fitzwilliam family lands. Hugh Fitzwilliam was then
> heir male of Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417), he being descended from
> John's 3rd son, Ralph, whereas Sir William and his line descended
> from John, 6th son of the same John (died 1417)]. Finch says the
> following:
>
> "For waging this war, he [Hugh] collected many evidences; and in 1565
> he compiled a detailed genealogy, the basis of all subsequent
> pedigrees. To attest the authority of this record, Hugh procured the
> signature of eleven members of the house of Fitzwilliam, including the
> Milton family." [Reference: Finch, Five Northamptonshire Fams.
> (Northamptonshire Rec. Soc. 19) (1956): 188-189].
>
> Milton cousins all of his evidences and much of his personal property,
> making them his executors. Finch provides no date or probate
> information for the will of Hugh Fitzwilliam,
Probate granted by the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 26 January 1578
(Prob 11/60) "Hughe Fitzwilliam of Sprotborough, Yorkshire".
butl...@aol.com
Thank you for the great data, it more or less validates what I have
been trying to write. Your writing is eloquent..Mine... well if I coud
write half as well as you do I would feel accomplished.
I further wish to point out that you have much data collected that I
had found at:
www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=22439&view=next&sid=3386469a1271b452cbb768d5da44ac95
and found it most excellent and wish to refer all to it. I hope this
web page comes thru like this.
Best Regards as Always,
Emmett L. Butler
WJho...@aol.com
I didn't actually do "the FitzWilliams" what I did was the "FitzWilliams of
MILTON"
I have *every* single A2A document naming FitzWilliam and Milton now sorted
among the various actors. Hopefully correct. I still need to find some
primary proofs for when a few of them died. I'm not satisfied with using
tudorplace.ar on some of these, as that site does carry some errors.
Will
Douglas Richardson
As a followup to my earlier message, I thought I'd post the first item
below taken from the helpful online A2A Catalogue. This item concerns
the identification of John Fitzwilliam, husband of Helen Villiers, as
the sixth son of Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417) and his wife, Eleanor
Greene. Reference is made to "divers bookes of the office of Armes"
which prove that John Fitzwilliam, husband of Helen Villiers, was the
sixth son of Sir John Fitzwilliam.
Elsewhere, I note that Mary Finch's Five Northamptonshire Families
(Northamptonshire Rec. Soc. 19) (1956): 188-189 states that Hugh
Fitzwilliam, the heir male c. 1565 of Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417),
was "desperate" and "unsuccessful" in his bid to obtain the estates of
his deceased cousin, William Fitzwilliam, of Sprotborough, who died
without issue. However, the second item below clearly shows that Hugh
Fitzwilliam in fact recovered a moiety share of the manor of
Sprotborough, Yorkshire in 1569. Hugh Fitzwilliam attributes his
success to the evidences and pedigree he assembled, which documentation
was witnessed by no less than "14 of the blood and 7 Heralds." The
modern editor notes that the number 14 is actually a mistake for 13.
Curiously, Ms. Finch incorrectly gave the number of family members as
"eleven," and totally ignored the reference to the seven Heralds.
Exactly how or why Mary Finch missed this information is hard to
explain, as she clearly saw Hugh Fitzwilliam's pedigree of the family
which he prepared c. 1565, which included his near cousins, the
Fitzwilliam family of Milton. The pedigree is maintained in the same
collection of records as the item which shows that Hugh Fitzwilliam's
lawsuit was successful. Perhaps Mary Finch was overwhelmed by the
sheer volume of material in the collection, or, more likely, she was
influenced by her own preconceived bias in her interpretation of the
information at hand. Whatever the case, this is a good example of
reader beware. I find that Finch's writing is filled with much
hyperbole, undocumented allegations, and more than a few misstatements
of facts.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Item #1.
Source: http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp
Northamptonshire Record Office: Fitzwilliam (Milton) Rolls, Estate and
Family
Reference: F(M) roll/441
Creation dates: Undated
Scope and Content
"Notes of the line of Fitzwilliam taken oute of divers bookes of the
office of Armes whearby appears howe John Fitzwilliam of Greenewich
that married Elle[n], daughter of Villars was 6 sone to Sir John that
married the daughter of Greene".
Vellum roll.
Item #2.
Source: http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp
Northamptonshire Record Office: Fitzwilliam (Milton) Rolls, Estate and
Family
Reference: F(M) roll/438
Creation dates: 1565;1569
Scope and Content
Descent of Hugh Fitzwilliam who "now claymeth" and "hath recovered ye
moyetie of ye Manor of Sprotborough in a demorer in lawe" taken from
severall aunscient books in the iii severall offices of Armes", with a
note as to the non-existence of the descent of the Fitzwilliams of
Bentley in the said books, and to the abstraction of leaves therefrom
(see the two declarations at the head). At the foot is a statement
that this descent was "confessed and advouched" by Richard Gascoigne,
esquire and Dame Elizabeth Savell his wife, one of the heirs general,
and by Edward Savell he "sole sonne" - and also by Philip Copley the
other heir general in the Court of Common Pleas, in answer to Hugh
Fitzwilliam for the manor of Sprotborough, who recovered, the moiety in
Trinity Term 11 Elizabeth [1569] and that "for a perpetuall memorie of
the truthe" of the descent of the said Hugh, 14 of the blood and 7
Heralds have subscribed their names, etc. on 3 May, 1565. (This is a
reference to Roll 434) The number 14 is a mistake for 13.
Vellum roll with coloured shields of arms.
Endorsed in a modern hand - "This Rolle shewes how ye Fitzwilliams are
descended from ye Lord Daincourts famiely, shewing the Cause of ye
great contest between ye Savills and Coppleyes famielies".
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< "For waging this war, he [Hugh] collected many evidences; and in 1565
he compiled a detailed genealogy, the basis of all subsequent
pedigrees. To attest the authority of this record, Hugh procured the
signature of eleven members of the house of Fitzwilliam, including the
Milton family." [Reference: Finch, Five Northamptonshire Fams.
(Northamptonshire Rec. Soc. 19) (1956): 188-189]. >>
The A2A entry which I posted the other day actually uses the word
"declarations" not signatures.
It would seem possible that, rather than simply signing, each signatory made
some sort of statement as well.
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< In the will of Lady Parr dated
20 May 1529, proved 14 Dec. 1531, she specifically states: "....and
if it that chaunce happen that all my said childerne dye, then my
cousin Sir William FitzWilliam knight to have oon hundrith
poundes...") [Reference: Nichols, Wills from Doctors' Commons
(Camden Soc. 83) (1863): 9-20]. Lady Parr is perhaps better known to
most British genealogists as the mother of Queen Katherine Parr, wife
of King Henry VIII of England. >>
Can we speculate that "Thomas Greene of Norton Davy" and Eleanor Greene (the
wife of John FitzWilliam) were siblings? Could Norton Davy and "Greene's"
Norton be the same place ?
Will
Douglas Richardson
Below is an abstract of a Chancery Proceeding taken from the helpful
online National Archives catalogue which concerns the unpaid marriage
portion of Eleanor Greene, wife of Sir John Fitzwilliam (he died 1417).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp
C 1/69/208
John Fitzwilliam v. Walter Seyntgermayn, parson of Lofwyk,
administrator of Henry Grene, knight.: Marriage portion of
complainant's wife, daughter of the said Grene.: Northampton.
1386-1486
Douglas Richardson
Below is an abstract of a Chancery Proceeding taken from the helpful
online National Archives catalogue which involves Sir William
Fitzwilliam (died 1534), of London and of Milton, Northamptonshire, and
his third wife, Jane (or Joan) Ormond, as defendants. The lawsuit
indicates that Sir William and his third wife, Jane (or Joan), were
married before 1532.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp
C 1/601/32
Margaret, executrix and late the wife of William Arches v. William
FitzWilliam, knight, Johanne, his wife, and John Denham of Ethorpe,
esquire.: Detention of deeds whereby Edward Grevyll, knight, and Thomas
Redmayne secured the price of land at Cranwell [in Waddesdon] and
Quainton, Buckinghamshire, bought of the testator.
Date: 1529-1532.
Douglas Richardson
Below is an abstract of a Chancery Proceeding taken from the helpful
online National Archives catalogue which identifies the three husbands
of Jane (or Joan) Ormond as: Thomas Dynham, Knt., Edward Greville (or
Grevyll), Knt., and Sir William Fitzwilliam (he died 1534).
The second item below shows that Jane (or Joan) Ormond was married to
Edward Greville, Knt., in 1522-23, when he was holding court at her
manor of Medbourn, Leicestershire. This manor was part of the
inheritance of Jane's mother.
I previously was not aware of Jane Ormond's marriage to Sir Edward
Greville. If anyone has further particulars regarding this marriage,
I'd appreciate it if they would post what information they have here on
the newsgroup. Thanks!
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
Item #1:
Source: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp
C 1/795/39-40
Chancery Proceeding
Jane, late the wife of William Fytzwilliam, knight, formerly of Edward
Grevyll, knight, and before that of Thomas Dynham, knight.: Petitions
to examine Anthony Babyngton, knight, and others as to title to the
manor of Ethorpe in Waddesdon (Etheropp).: Buckingham.
Date: 1532-1538
Item #2:
Source: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp
SC 2/183/85
County: [Leicester]. Description of Courts: Courts of Edward Grevyll,
knt., in right of Joan his wife, and others. Places: Medbourn. 2
membranes or sheets.
Date: 14 Henry VIII [1522-23].
Douglas Richardson
Checking my files, I've found a suitable Sir Edward Greville, who may
well be the second husband of Jane (or Joan) Ormond, widow of Sir
Thomas Dynham (he died 1519) and afterwards wife of Sir William
Fitzwilliam (he died 1534). I show this Sir Edward Greville married
Anne Denton, by whom he had four known sons. He died in 1528, leaving
a PCC will. Can anyone confirm that this is the individual who
married Jane (or Joan) Ormond as her second husband?
I've copied below what information I have on this Sir Edward Greville
from my book, Magna Carta Ancestry (2005).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry (2005).
EDWARD GREVILLE, Knt., of Milcote-on-Avon, Milcote-on-Stour, and Weston
Mauduit, Warwickshire, Drayton, Oxfordshire, and Alderminster,
Worcestershire, Justice of the Peace for Warwickshire, son and heir of
John Greville, of Drayton, Oxfordshire, by Jane, daughter of Humphrey
Forster, Knt. He married ANNE DENTON, daughter of John Denton, Gent.,
of Appleton, Berkshire, and Foscott, Buckinghamshire, by Isabel,
daughter of John Brome, Esq. [see DUDLEY 13 for her ancestry]. They
had four sons, John, Fulk, Knt., Thomas, and Edward. He was knighted
for his "valiant behaviour" at the Sieges of Thérouanne and
Tournai, and at the Battle of the Spurs. SIR EDWARD GREVILLE died 22
June 1528, his will (P.C.C. 11 Jankyn) requesting burial in St.
Anne's Chapel, Weston upon Avon.
References:
Brydges, Collins' Peerage of England 4 (1812): 330-361. Harvey et
al., Vis. of Oxford 1566, 1574, 1634 & 1574 (H.S.P. 5) (1871):
228-229 (Denton pedigree: "Anne [Denton] marr. to Sr Ed. Grevill of
Milcott, Knt."). Lennard & Vincent, Vis. of Warwick 1619 (H.S.P. 12)
(1877): 28-29 (Grevill pedigree: "Edw. Greuill of Milcotte Milis. =
Anne Da. of John Denton of Amersden."), 96-98 (Brome pedigree:
"Anne [Denton] ux. Sr Edw. Greuill Kt."). List of Early Chancery
Procs. 3 (PRO Lists and Indexes 20) (1906): 190; 4 (PRO Lists and
Indexes 29) (1908): 228; 5 (PRO Lists and Indexes 38) (1912): 342. VCH
Worcester 4 (1924): 9. VCH Warwick 6 (1965): 47, 51. VCH Oxford 9
(1969): 104-106. Paget, Lineage & Anc. of Prince Charles 2 (1977):
180. Bindoff, House of Commons 1509-1558 2 (1982): 250-251.
butl...@aol.com
I too, was unaware of this in-between marriage to Sir Edward Greville
and was unaware of the rather late date of her marriage to Sir William
FitzWilliam!!!!
That then brings to bear the question of the transfer of lands from
Thomas Butler, he was seized of on his death in 1515 of Rush, Turvey,
Balscadden and land in part of Lusk to William FitzWilliam? I had
initially (without any dates or this information) surmised that Thomas
Dynham may have been old or infirm and Joan's marriage was a behind the
scenes plan to secure her future, it seemed to make sense as Thomas was
known as the woolen earl and was heavily involved in wool and that Sir
William FitzWilliam as a wool Stapler, made his fortune in the City of
London doing that. There had seemed at least a potential connection.
Now I do not know.
Thank You for the updates as always, mysteries are great and meant to
be solved.
Best Regards,
Emmett L. Butler
Douglas Richardson
I checked the will of Sir Edward Greville tonight. The will is dated
21 June 1528, and was proved 24 Jan. 1528/9 (PCC, 11 Jankyn). In the
will, Edward Greville referred to his wife, Dame Jane, who is named one
of his executors. She is clearly is the same person as Jane Ormond,
widow of Sir Thomas Dynham of Eythorpe (in Waddesdon), Buckinghamshire.
Jane subsequently married before about 1529 Sir William Fitzwilliam,
the London merchant [Reference: VCH Buckingham, 4 (1927): 110-111].
Among other things, Edward Greville requested that former bequests of
Sir Thomas Dynham to his children be performed. I assume by this that
Edward Greville was the executor of the will of Jane Ormond's former
husband, Sir Thomas Dynham. The bequests to "his children" are
probably Dynham's bequests to his own children, not bequests to
Greville's children.
Edward Greville stated that he had purchased lands at Cranwell (in
Waddesdon), Buckinghamshire from Master Baldwin and from Arches, which
property he left to his son, Thomas. Waddesdon was the parish in which
Sir Thomas Dynham resided.
Besides the son, Thomas, Edward Greville also mentioned his son and
heir, John Greville. He also mentioned Alice, an unmarried minor
daughter. He referred to his sister, Elizabeth, no surname given. He
referred to two brothers-in-law, Thomas Denton and Sir Edmund Tame.
There was no mention of his former wife, Anne Denton. I presume Thomas
Denton was the brother of his first wife, Anne Denton. I do not know
Greville's connection to Sir Edmund Tame.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
Douglas Richardson
As I indicated in my post earlier this week, the second surviving wife
of Sir Edward Greville (died 1528), of Milcote-on-Avon, Warwickshire,
was Jane (or Joan) Ormond, widow of Sir Thomas Dynham, of Ashridge,
Hertfordshire and Eythorpe (in Waddesdon), Buckinghamshire. Following
Sir Edward's death, Jane married (3rd) before about 1529 (as his 3rd
wife) Sir William Fitzwilliam (died 1534), the London merchant, also of
Milton, Northamptonshire.
I checked the PCC wills of both Sir Thomas Dynham and of Dame Jane
Fitzwilliam this past week. My examination of these wills was cursory,
and those who wish an exact abstract may wish to examine the wills for
themselves.
Will of Sir Thomas Dynham dated 18 Sept. 1519, proved 13 February
1519/20 (PCC, 25 Ayloffe). He mentions his wife, Jane, and eleven
children, John (son and heir), George (2nd son), Thomas, Charles,
Elynour, Roger, Edward. Anne, Kateryn, Elizabeth, and Jane. The
younger ten children all appear to have been minors.
Will of Dame Jane Fitzwilliam dated 18 Jan. 1540, codicil dated 26 Jan.
1539/40, proved 23 October 1542 (PCC, 10 Spert). She mentions her
sons, George (eldest son), Thomas, and Edward Dynham; her daughters,
Anne, Mary, and Elizabeth Dynham; her sister Mering; her cousin,
Richard Sackville; and several people named Dynham (probably
grandchildren) whose relationship is not stated: Alice Dynham; Jane
Dynham, George Dynham the younger, and Oliver Dynham.
Dame Jane Fitzwilliam's cousin, Richard Sackville, was presumably
Richard Sackville (died 1566) whose maternal grandmother, Magaret
(Butler) Boleyn, was the daughter of Dame Jane (Ormond) (Dynham)
(Greville) Fitzwilliam's great-uncle, Thomas Butler (or Ormond), Earl
of Ormond. I might also note that Richard Sackville's aunt, Mildred
Sackville, was the second wife of Sir William Fitzwilliam, the London
merchant.
For interest's sake, I've posted below a revised account of Sir Edward
Greville, showing his marriages to Anne Denton and Jane (or Joan)
Ormond.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
GREVILLE FAMILY
I. EDWARD GREVILLE, Knt., of Milcote-on-Avon, Milcote-on-Stour, and
Weston Mauduit, Warwickshire, Drayton, Oxfordshire, and Alderminster,
Worcestershire, and, in right of his 2nd wife, of Medbourn,
Leicestershire, Justice of the Peace for Warwickshire, son and heir of
John Greville, of Drayton, Oxfordshire, by Jane, daughter of Humphrey
Forster, Knt. He married (1st) ANNE DENTON, daughter of John Denton,
Gent., of Appleton, Berkshire, and Foscott, Buckinghamshire, by Isabel,
daughter of John Brome, Esq. They had four sons, John, Fulk, Knt.,
Thomas, and Edward, and one daughter, Alice. He was knighted for his
"valiant behaviour" at the Sieges of Thérouanne and Tournai, and
at the Battle of the Spurs. Sometime after 1517 he acquired the manor
of Cranwell (in Eythorpe), Buckinghamshire from William Arches. In
1520 he mortgaged the manor of Ashley (in Charlton Kings),
Gloucestershire for £400; his wife, Anne, and son and heir, John,
served as guarantors for repayment. He married (2nd) before 1523-24
(date of court) JANE (or JOAN) ORMOND, widow successively of Thomas
Dinham, Knt. (will proved 13 Feb. 1519/20), of Ashridge, Hertfordshire
and Eythorpe (in Waddesdon), Buckinghamshire, and daughter and
co-heiress of John Ormond, of Alfreton, Derbyshire, by Joan, daughter
of William Chaworth, Knt. SIR EDWARD GREVILLE died 22 June 1528. He
left a a will dated 21 June 1528, proved 24 Jan. 1528/9 (P.C.C. 11
Jankyn), requesting burial in St. Anne's Chapel, Weston upon Avon,
Warwickshire. His widow, Jane, married (3rd) before about 1529 (as his
3rd wife) Sir William Fitzwilliam, Knt., of Gaynes Park (in Theydon
Garnon), Essex, and Milton (in Castor) and Marholm, Northamptonshire,
Warden and Master of the Merchant Taylors' Company, London, Mayor of
the Staple of Calais in London, Alderman of London, Sheriff of London.
They had no issue. He died 9 August 1534. Jane left a will dated
dated 18 Jan. 1540, codicil dated 26 Jan. 1539/40, proved 23 Oct. 1542
(P.C.C. 10 Spert), requesting burial in the church of St. Thomas the
Apostle, London.
References:
Brydges, Collins' Peerage of England 4 (1812): 330-361. Harvey et
al., Vis. of Oxford 1566, 1574, 1634 & 1574 (H.S.P. 5) (1871):
228-229 (Denton pedigree: "Anne [Denton] marr. to Sr Ed. Grevill of
Milcott, Knt."). Lennard & Vincent, Vis. of Warwick 1619 (H.S.P. 12)
(1877): 28-29 (Grevill pedigree: "Edw. Greuill of Milcotte Milis. =
Anne Da. of John Denton of Amersden."), 96-98 (Brome pedigree:
"Anne [Denton] ux. Sr Edw. Greuill Kt."). List of Early Chancery
Procs. 3 (PRO Lists and Indexes 20) (1906): 190; 4 (PRO Lists and
Indexes 29) (1908): 228; 5 (PRO Lists and Indexes 38) (1912): 342. VCH
Worcester 4 (1924): 9. VCH Buckingham 4 (1927): 110-111. VCH
Warwick 6 (1965): 47, 51. VCH Oxford 9 (1969): 104-106. Paget,
Lineage & Anc. of Prince Charles 2 (1977): 180. Bindoff, House of
Commons 1509-1558 2 (1982): 250-251 (biog. of Sir Fulke Greville).
Registered will of Thomas Dynham, Knt., proved 13 Feb. 1519/20,
Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 25 Ayloffe [FHL Microfilm 91909].
Registered will of Edward Greville, Knt., proved 24 Jan. 1528/9,
Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 1 Jankyn [FHL Microfilm 91913].
Registered will of Dame Jane Fitzwilliam, proved 23 Oct. 1542,
Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 10 Spert [FHL Microfilm 91919]. PRO
Document, C 1/601/32 - Chancery Proceeding dated 1529-1532
(Margaret, executrix and late the wife of William Arches v. William
FitzWilliam, knight, Johanne, his wife, and John Denham of Ethorpe,
esquire: Detention of deeds whereby Edward Grevyll, knight, and Thomas
Redmayne secured the price of land at Cranwell [in Waddesdon] and
Quainton, Buckinghamshire, bought of the testator); C 1/795/39-40 -
Chancery Proceeding dated 1532-1538 (Jane, late the wife of William
Fytzwilliam, knight, formerly of Edward Grevyll, knight, and before
that of Thomas Dynham, knight.: Petitions to examine Anthony Babyngton,
knight, and others as to title to the manor of Ethorpe in Waddesdon
(Etheropp).: Buckingham) (abstract of documents available online at
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp).
ADRIANC...@aol.com
mj...@btinternet.com writes:
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> The historian, Mary E. Finch, in her book, Five Northamptonshire
> Families, published in 1956, cites the problem of the long generations
> between John Fitzwilliam (died 1417) and his alleged grandson, Sir
> William Fitzwilliam (died 1534), ancestor of the Milton Fitzwilliams.
> Finch, however, documented that about 1565 members of Sir William
> Fitzwilliam's family aided their kinsman, Hugh Fitzwilliam, in his
> attempt to recover Fitzwilliam family lands. Hugh Fitzwilliam was then
> heir male of Sir John Fitzwilliam (died 1417), he being descended from
> John's 3rd son, Ralph, whereas Sir William and his line descended
> from John, 6th son of the same John (died 1417)]. Finch says the
> following:
>
> "For waging this war, he [Hugh] collected many evidences; and in 1565
> he compiled a detailed genealogy, the basis of all subsequent
> pedigrees. To attest the authority of this record, Hugh procured the
> signature of eleven members of the house of Fitzwilliam, including the
> Milton family." [Reference: Finch, Five Northamptonshire Fams.
> (Northamptonshire Rec. Soc. 19) (1956): 188-189].
>
> Finch further reveals that Hugh Fitzwilliam subsequently left his
> Milton cousins all of his evidences and much of his personal property,
> making them his executors. Finch provides no date or probate
> information for the will of Hugh Fitzwilliam,
Probate granted by the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 26 January 1578
(Prob 11/60) "Hughe Fitzwilliam of Sprotborough, Yorkshire".
> but this will serves as
> excellent evidence that Hugh Fitzwilliam, the heir male of Sir John
> Fitzwilliam (died 1417), believed that he was near related to the
> Fitzwilliam family of Milton.
The will is included in:
Surtees Society M.DCCC.XXXIV
NORTH COUNTRY WILLS 1558-1604 Vol II pp 40-1
XXXI THE WILL OF HUGH FITZWILLIAM, {fn} of SPROTBOROUGH
(Langley, 3.)
Be yt knowen unto all Christian people that I, Hughe Fitzwilliam of
Sprootbroughe, dothe make, beinge in perfecte mynde, this my laste will in the yere
of our Lord God 1563, the xiiij th daye of October. And firste of all I
bequeath my sowle into the handes of Allmightie God my Saviour and Reedeemer of
the worlde. Item I bequeathe my two chestes that I lefte with Mr Thomas Norton
the younger, dwellinge beside St Brydes churche in London, to my cosen Sr
William Fitzwilliam of Mylton, and my chascate that standeth within the cheste
barred and covered with lether and all that therin is contayned, and all the
reste of my stuffe there. Item I bequeathe to the said Mr Thomas Norton a
bruche of goulde, and to his servauntes xxs. amongeste them. Item I bequeathe
a boxe contayned in a lether bagge sealed with my armes that I lefte withe
Annes Som’er, servaunte into the personne of Plumptrie, to Sr William
Fitzwilliam, and all that therein is, and all the reste of my stuffe there. Item I
bequeathe to Sr John Olief, the parsonne of Plumptrye, tenne of my beste
bookes, and to the said Annes Som’er tenne shillinges, and to the reste of his
servauntes x s. amongeste them. Item to the said Sr William Fitzwilliam all
my stuffe that I have at Sutill Hall, and my little male of writinges and
evidences that I lefte with Swayle, my Lady Savelles butler, to the whiche Swayle
I bequeathe x s. Item I bequeathe all my writinges and evidences,
wheresoever they be, to the saide William and the heires males of Mylton. Item I doe
bequeathe to my cosen John Fitzwilliam thelder, brother to the said Sr
William Fitzwilliam, my cheane of goulde, and to my cosen William Fitzwilliam,
sonne and heire to the said Sr William Fitzwilliam, my ringe withe a poynted
dyamonde, the whiche Sr William Fitzwilliam, John Fitzwilliam his brother, and
William Fitzwilliam his sonne I doe make my full executors of this my laste
will, to the whiche I have sette my hande and seale. Be it also knowen that I
the seyd Hugh Fitwillim at the date hereof dyd not owe to any lyvinge creature
by promyse or byll of my hande or otherwaise any one grote to my knowledge,
as I shall answeare at the day of judgemente before the throne of Almyghtie
God.
[Proved 26 January 1577-8.]
{fn [by Surtees soc] He was one of a younger branch of the Fitzwilliams of
Sprotborough, being son of John Fitzwilliam, of Haddlesey. He claimed the
Sprotborough estates when they came, by the death of William Fitzwilliam in
1516, to the Saviles and Copleys. There is an account of him in Hunter’s South
Yorkshire, i, 341, in which he is called the antiquary of the family.}
Adrian