Re: Agnes d'Aumale / Peter de Brus
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< In a related vein, I might note that Complete Peerage, 7 (1929): 670
(sub Lincoln) states that Agnes of Aumale married (2nd) Piers de Brus.
The source it cites is Bowles, Lacock Abbey, pg. 77 (from T.
Stapleton). Having Agnes of Aumale married to Peter de Brus, living
1155, makes sense chronologically. I guesstimate that Agnes of Aumale
was born say 1115/20, whereas Lucy du Hommet's grandson, Baldwin Wake,
was born about 1180. >>
Peter d'Brus, Lord of Skelton b 1200 (www.genealogics.org) is not a son of
Agnes and Peter ?
If he is, and his birthyear is sure, then Agnes couldn't be this old.
Will Johnson
Douglas Richardson
The mother of Peter de Brus (died 1221), of Skelton, was Ivette (or
Juetta) de Arches. This is proven by a record cited on page 245,
footnote 30, at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8&vid=0GJQ5oHxaudJxqJKXp&id=5pxQ...
That Agnes of Aumale is also in this Peter's ancestry is indicated by a
lawsuit dated 1276, cited by this same source on page 244, footnote 26.
Agnes of Aumale has been alternatively assigned as the wife of Adam I
de Brus (as per Blakely) and Adam II de Brus (as per Dalton). In the
pedigree proposed by Mr. Sharp, Agnes of Aumale would become the wife
of Peter de Brus, who I believe is the individual who witnessed a
charter for King David I of Scotland in or before 1151, and who was
still living in 1155. Agnes of Aumale and her husband, Peter de Brus,
would thus be the paternal grandparents of Peter de Brus, of Skelton,
who died 1221. This arrangement places Lucy du Hommet as the
granddaughter of Adam I de Brus (died 1144). This would agree with the
charter dated 1232 cited by Gerville, in which Adam I de Brus is
specifically called Lucy's grandfather.
As far as I can tell, the chronology simply does not permit Agnes of
Aumale to be the wife of Adam I de Brus, and also the grandmother of
Lucy du Hommet. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, there are no
contemporary charters which identify the Brus husband of Agnes of
Aumale. Her Brus marriage has been deduced solely from the 1276
lawsuit.
My one concern with this arrangement is that Lucy du Hommet can have
been born no early than 1152, yet her grandson, Baldwin Wake, was born
c. 1180/83. That makes for a short set of generations. We might
suppose, however, that the generations are running short in this
family, as the historian Powicke indicates that Lucy's husband,
Guillaume du Hommet, was living as late as 1220, he having outlived
their grandson, Baldwin Wake, who died in 1213. And, if Gerville has
dated the 1232 charter correctly, then Guillaume du Hommet was still
living in 1230, when his great-grandson, Hugh Wake, was evidently of
age. Thus can happen in a family where the generations run short.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry. net