Re: Possible RD for Gov. George Wyllys of Connecticut?
Nathaniel Taylor
<20173660-01f1-4ded...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
John Brandon <starb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Below is a tentative royal descent for Gov. George Wyllys of
> Connecticut, derived from the links immediately below it. This line
> could well be wrong, but probably deserves to be checked into by
> descendants (especially those of Gov. Wyllysą son Samuel, who does not
> share the RD through Yonge that his half-siblings enjoy).
>
> Itąs possible this descent may have too many generations crowded
> together to be feasible, especially at the bottom (but, then again,
> notice that 11 out of the 16 links are female)
>
> I will say that I think the Chamber or Chambre family would be more
> fertile ground for searching than the Wyllyses, Keverills {sp?}, and
> Naptons that GBR has focussed on thus far.
>
> 1. Edward I of England
>
> 2. Elizabeth Plantagenet + Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and
> Essex
>
> 3. William de Bohun, Earl of Northampton + Elizabeth de Badlesmere
>
> 4. Elizabeth de Bohun + Richard, Earl of Arundel and Surrey
>
> 5. Elizabeth FitzAlan/ Arundel + Sir Robert Goushill
>
> 6. Elizabeth Goushill + Robert Wingfield
>
> 7. Elizabeth Wingfield + Sir William Brandon
>
> 8. Margaret Brandon + Sir Gregory Lovell of Barton Bendish, Norfolk
>
> 9. Sir Francis Lovell of Barton Bendish, Norfolk + Anne Ashby
>
> 10. Dorothy Lovell + (1) Thomas Vernon of Stokesay Castle; + (2)
> Blount
>
> 11. Dorothy Vernon + Humphrey Ludlow of Stokesay Castle
>
> 12. Elizabeth Ludlow + Humphrey Hill of Hilląs Court, Shropshire
>
> 13. Mary Hill + Richard Chambers of Petton, Shropshire
>
> 14. George Chambers of Petton, Shropshire, and Williamscott, Oxon. +
> Judith Calcott
>
> 15. Hester Chambers + Richard Wyllys of Fenny Compton, Warwickshire
>
> 16. Gov. George Wyllys, immigrant to Connecticut
This looks like it may well check out, from the links you've posted.
None of the interlocking visitation pedigrees look suspect, though it
would be nice to have something more on Hill of Court-of-Hill. Why not
write it up?
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://www.nltaylor.net/sketchbook/
Matthew Connolly
[snip]
> 10. Dorothy Lovell + (1) Thomas Vernon of Stokesay Castle; + (2) ____
> Blount
>
> 11. Dorothy Vernon + Humphrey Ludlow of Stokesay Castle
[snip]
There's a problem with the descent being via this Thomas Vernon of
Stokesay, as the descendants of his sister Eleanor (wife of Francis
Curzon of Kedleston) were later involved in various legal bids for the
Powys title as the heirs of this line, meaning Thomas's issue
(legitimate, at least) was certainly extinct. According to Vis. Salop
p.472 and Thomas's entry in the History of Parliament 1509-58, he had
only two sons; a contemporary pedigree centred on the son Henry, which
I saw in one of the Harleian MSS recently, again shows his aunt
"Alienore uxor Francisci Curson" but gives no sister to Henry.
jhigg...@yahoo.com
> Below is a tentative royal descent for Gov. George Wyllys of
> Connecticut, derived from the links immediately below it. This line
> could well be wrong, but probably deserves to be checked into by
> share the RD through Yonge that his half-siblings enjoy).
>
> together to be feasible, especially at the bottom (but, then again,
> notice that 11 out of the 16 links are female) –
>
> I will say that I think the Chamber or Chambre family would be more
> fertile ground for searching than the Wyllyses, Keverills {sp?}, and
> Naptons that GBR has focussed on thus far.
>
> 1. Edward I of England
>
> 2. Elizabeth Plantagenet + Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and
> Essex
>
> 3. William de Bohun, Earl of Northampton + Elizabeth de Badlesmere
>
> 4. Elizabeth de Bohun + Richard, Earl of Arundel and Surrey
>
> 5. Elizabeth FitzAlan/ Arundel + Sir Robert Goushill
>
> 6. Elizabeth Goushill + Robert Wingfield
>
> 7. Elizabeth Wingfield + Sir William Brandon
>
> 8. Margaret Brandon + Sir Gregory Lovell of Barton Bendish, Norfolk
>
> 9. Sir Francis Lovell of Barton Bendish, Norfolk + Anne Ashby
>
> Blount
>
> 11. Dorothy Vernon + Humphrey Ludlow of Stokesay Castle
>
>
> 13. Mary Hill + Richard Chambers of Petton, Shropshire
>
> 14. George Chambers of Petton, Shropshire, and Williamscott, Oxon. +
> Judith Calcott
>
> 15. Hester Chambers + Richard Wyllys of Fenny Compton, Warwickshire
>
> 16. Gov. George Wyllys, immigrant to Connecticut
>
This is an interesting line. I note some minor inconsistencies in the
visitation pedigrees (e.g., the wife of Richard Chambers in #13 is
variously referred to as Mary dau. of Humphrey, Mary dau. of John, and
Dorothy dau. of Humphrey), but this is not unusual in such pedigrees.
The family of Chambers of Petton ended up in Ireland where they used
the surname Chambré and are covered in Burke's Landed Gentry of
Ireland as recently as the 1976 [and last] edition. This last
reference contains an entry (in the proper place) for "Hester m.
Richard Willis" [sic].
There are a number of Welsh connections in the earlier generations of
the Chambers family which could well lead to some other royal links.
FWIW, #14 George Chambers and Judith Calcott had a granddaughter Mary
Chambré who married Edward Brabazon, 2nd Earl of Meath and is an
ancestor of Princess Diana.
wjhonson
> There are a number of Welsh connections in the earlier generations of
> the Chambers family which could well lead to some other royal links.
>
> FWIW, #14 George Chambers and Judith Calcott had a granddaughter Mary
> Chambré who married Edward Brabazon, 2nd Earl of Meath and is an
> ancestor of Princess Diana.
John!
You've found the parents of Calcott Chambre of Carnowe, co Wicklow
He is a Cecil 5 having married secondly Lucy Gobard, granddaughter of
Erasmus Smythe of Husbands Bosworth
Will Johnson
wjhonson
> Chambré who married Edward Brabazon, 2nd Earl of Meath and is an
> ancestor of Princess Diana.
By the way, this couple is *also* ancestral to Sarah Ferguson, Duchess
of York
Where Sarah and Diana split coming forward is at the couple
Brabazon Ponsonby, 1st Earl of Bessborough and his wife Sarah
Margetson.
Diana descends from their son John Ponsonby
while Sarah descends from their son William the 2nd Earl.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
A minor point: According to BLGI, Lucy Godard was the 1st, not 2nd,
wife of Calcott Chambré. Mary, dau. of Edward Villiers of Howthorpe,
was the 2nd wife and (per CP 8:613) mother of Mary, wife of the 2nd
Earl of Meath.
And, yes, there are at least a couple of royal descents behind Mary
Villiers....
wjhonson
>
> A minor point: According to BLGI, Lucy Godard was the 1st, not 2nd,
> wife of Calcott Chambré. Mary, dau. of Edward Villiers of Howthorpe,
> was the 2nd wife and (per CP 8:613) mother of Mary, wife of the 2nd
> Earl of Meath.
>
> And, yes, there are at least a couple of royal descents behind Mary
> Villiers....
Yes BUT.
Lucy Gobard was "third daughter and co-heiress" of her father John
Gobard
His will dated in 1623, was proved 9 May 1625 Prob 11/145
The baptism of Lucy is extant on Oct 1595 at Husbands Bosworth as is
that of her two elder sisters Frances 1 Dec 1591 and Anna 5 Aug 1593
along with a Mary 21 Nov 1596 who d.v.p.s.p.
Which matches very well with their mother Lucy Smith bap 30 Dec 1570
at Husbands Bosworth.
Lucy Gobard was yet living at the time her father wrote his will and
yet Calcott Chambre was then already a father by Mary Villiers of his
daughter Mary who by 1636 was already married to Edward Brabazon and
already had their first child William.
So Lucy cannot be Calcott's first wife.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
>
> And, yes, there are at least a couple of royal descents behind Mary
> Villiers....
P.S. I have no royal descents for Mary Villiers
wjhonson
Because you *forced* me to resource the Gobard-Smythes, I just
happened to fall face-first into the PRE-Nuptial settlement between
Roger Smythe and Joan Heron
dated 4 Oct 1597 which, with the combination that Joan died "aet 26"
in 1599 tells us that their only child Edward *must* have been born
rather precisely in 1598 or 1599
Very good.
Will Johnson
Reference: DG39/221
Creation dates: 4th October 1597
Scope and Content
Marriage settlement
(i) Erasmus Smyth, esq., Husbands Bosworth.
(ii) Edward Heron, serjeant at law, Stamford, Lincs.
(iii) Roger Smyth, son of (i).
Jane Heron, daughter of (ii).
----- whereas a marriage is intended between (iii), now (i) conveys to
(ii) Manor of Bosworth with appurtenances with the capital messuage,
to the use of (i) for life, then to (iii) and their heirs.
----- recital of grants of annuities of £50 to Jane and £100 to Roger
by (i) by deeds of previous day.
Witnesses: Robert Lawsonn, John Gobert.
Signature and seal of Edward Heron.
wjhonson
named for his great-uncle. I didn't have anything on the Loveday
family so I guess I now have to do some research on them as well.
Will Johnson
Leicestershire, Leicester and Rutland Record Office: Conant MSS
CONANT MSS
Catalogue Ref. DG11
Creator(s): Conant family of Lyndon Hall, Rutland
Barker family of Lyndon Hall, Rutland
MARRIAGE SETTLEMENTS
FILE [no title] - ref. DG11/946 - date: 43 Elizabeth I, May 18
[from Scope and Content] Jointure: (a) Thoby Lovedaie of Stamford, co.
Lincoln, gent., and Christopher Lovedaie, son and heir apparent of
said Toby; (b) calcott Chambers, the elder, of Wilscott, co. Oxon,
gent., and Richard Chambers, one of the brothers of said Calcott: in
consideration of a marriage to take place between said Christopher
Lovedaie and Mary Chambers, one of the sisters of said Calcott and
Richard Chambers it is covenanted that said Thoby shall stand seised
of a croft with appurtenances in HAMBLEDON, co. Rutland, and 4
yardlands with appurtenances in HAMBLEDON and all other lands in the
same called Flowers Lands, parcel of the possessions of Remeige Hunt
to the use of said Christopher and Mary for the term of their lives
and the survivor of them, after the death of the survivor to the heirs
of said Christopher begotten on the body of said Mary, in default of
such to the right heirs of the said Christopher, in default of such to
the heirs of Thoby Lovedaie.
wjhonson
> Calcott and
> Richard Chambers it is covenanted that said Thoby shall stand seised
> of a croft with appurtenances in HAMBLEDON, co. Rutland, and 4
> yardlands with appurtenances in HAMBLEDON and all other lands in the
> same called Flowers Lands, parcel of the possessions of Remeige Hunt
> to the use of said Christopher and Mary for the term of their lives
I *think* this is speaking of the same lands of Remigius Hunt (son of
John)
http://books.google.com/books?id=LIcuAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA142&dq=tobias+loveday&as_brr=3#PPA141,M1
Will Johnson
wjhonson
Gobard which I've only just now found here