MACBETH [c. 1005-1057] KING OF SCOTS [1040-1057]
D. Spencer Hines
A little book I recently picked up on the remainder table at my local
bookseller is entitled "Larousse Dictionary of British History, Editor
Min Lee. For those who might want to lay a hand on it, the ISBN is
0-7523-0004-0. It is hardly an authoritative reference for much of
anything, but it does pack a lot of information into 330 small pages.
On page 200, the authors claim that Macbeth "was probably a grandson of
Kenneth II (971/95), son of Finleach, Mormaaer of Moray, and nephew of
Malcolm II." Can anyone validate or invalidate this information?
Incidentally, with respect to the strange discussion as to my gender, I
should like to assure everone that it is just common garden-variety
"homo sapiens." Perhaps folks were somewhat confused, because of the
extremely fair-handed and unbiased way I respond to both genders in this
group.
--
D. Spencer Hines---"It may be said that, thanks to the 'clercs',
humanity did evil for two thousand years, but honored good. This
contradiction was an honor to the human species,and formed the rift
whereby civilization slipped into the world." "La Trahison des clercs"
[The Treason of the Intellectuals] (1927) Julien Benda (1867-1956)
D. Spencer Hines
A little book I recently picked up on the remainder table at my local
bookseller is entitled "Larousse Dictionary of British History, Editor
Min Lee. For those who might want to lay a hand on it, the ISBN is
0-7523-0004-0. It is hardly an authoritative reference for much of
anything, but it does pack a lot of information into 330 small pages.
On page 200, the authors claim that Macbeth "was probably a grandson of
Kenneth II (971/95), son of Finleach, Mormaer of Moray, and nephew of
Malcolm II." Can anyone validate or invalidate this information?
--
D. Spencer Hines---"It may be said that, thanks to the 'clercs',
humanity did evil for two thousand years, but honored good. This
contradiction was an honor to the human species,and formed the rift
whereby civilization slipped into the world." "La Trahison des clercs"
[The Treason of the Intellectuals] (1927) Julien Benda (1867-1956)
D. Spencer Hines-----"... all stories, if continued far enough end in death
and he is no true story teller who would keep that from you."----- Ernest
Hemingway; (1899-1961) "To die soon or die late matters nothing; to die
badly or die well is the important point."-----Lucius Annaeus Seneca (c. 4
B.C. -- A.D. 65)
Lukas Huisman
In the book "Britain's Royal Families" by Alison Weir, Macbeth is said
to be the son of Finlay MacRory, Mormaer of Moray, and his wife Donalda,
who was either the daughter of Kenneth II or Malcolm II. After Finlay's
death she married Sigurd II Digri, Jarl of Orkney & Caithness. The ISBN
of this book is 9 780712 674485. It's quite a good reference and the
bibliography goes on for 10 pages of small print, so it appears to be
well researched.
Regards,
Luke & Lurie Huisman
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jane P. Justice
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>
> A little book I recently picked up on the remainder table at my local
> bookseller is entitled "Larousse Dictionary of British History, Editor
> Min Lee. For those who might want to lay a hand on it, the ISBN is
> 0-7523-0004-0. It is hardly an authoritative reference for much of
> anything, but it does pack a lot of information into 330 small pages.
>
> On page 200, the authors claim that Macbeth "was probably a grandson of
> Kenneth II (971/95), son of Finleach, Mormaer of Moray, and nephew of
> Malcolm II." Can anyone validate or invalidate this information?
> --
>
> D. Spencer Hines---"It may be said that, thanks to the 'clercs',
> humanity did evil for two thousand years, but honored good. This
> contradiction was an honor to the human species,and formed the rift
> whereby civilization slipped into the world." "La Trahison des clercs"
> [The Treason of the Intellectuals] (1927) Julien Benda (1867-1956)
>
> D. Spencer Hines-----"... all stories, if continued far enough end in death
> and he is no true story teller who would keep that from you."----- Ernest
> Hemingway; (1899-1961) "To die soon or die late matters nothing; to die
> badly or die well is the important point."-----Lucius Annaeus Seneca (c. 4
> B.C. -- A.D. 65)
was the grandson of Kenneth II,and the son of Findlaech, although his
mother is unknown (as listed)
Robin Justice
Stewart Baldwin
"Jane P. Justice" <jus...@3RDDOOR.COM> wrote:
>According to the "Anglo-Saxon Chronicle", the info is correct. Macbeth
>was the grandson of Kenneth II,and the son of Findlaech, although his
>mother is unknown (as listed)
>Robin Justice
Actually, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle gives no information about
Macbeth's mother. I think what you are referring to is a genealogical
table in the back of one of the editions of the ASC (probably
Whitelock's edition), but these tables are not actually a part of the
Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. They were put there as an appendix (using
other sources in addition to the ASC) for purposes of illustration.
Also, note that a question mark was put on the alleged daughter of
Kenneth who was supposedly Macbeth's mother (at least in Whitelock's
edition of the ASC). In fact, there appears to be no good evidence
that Macbeth was a grandson of Kenneth.
Macbeth was the son of Findlaech, who was referred to as king of
"Alba" (i.e., Scotland) in the contemporary Irish annals. His wife
was Gruoch (daughter of Boete son of Kenneth), who had previously been
married to Macbeth's first cousin Gilla Coemghin, by whom she had
Lulach, Macbeth's successor as king of Scotland. The "sons of
Kenneth" who appear in the records during this confused period are
hard to sort out, since there is often no way to be sure whether they
were sons of Kenneth II or of Kenneth III. This is the case with
Macbeth's father-in-law Boete, who is variously listed as a son of
Kenneth II or Kenneth III. It is difficult to be certain which is
correct. See Anderson's "Early Sources of Scottish History", which is
always an excellent source to consult regarding early medieval
Scottish history and genealogy.
Stewart Baldwin
Jane P. Justice
Yes, it came from the charts in the back of the book. I'm not sure
which edition I'm using either...I photocopied the whole book, but
apparently not the page with the compiler's name. I appreciate your
giving the source. Obviously, I don't want incorrect information in my
files! :)
Robin
Todd A. Farmerie
Jane P. Justice wrote:
>
> D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> >
> > On page 200, the authors claim that Macbeth "was probably a grandson of
> > Kenneth II (971/95), son of Finleach, Mormaer of Moray, and nephew of
> > Malcolm II." Can anyone validate or invalidate this information?
>
> was the grandson of Kenneth II,and the son of Findlaech, although his
> mother is unknown (as listed)
I looked at my ASC from 1025 to 1066, and found no mention of either the
father or grandfather of Macbeth, nor any mention of Findlaech or
Kenneth. The only references to him that I found were, first in 1031E
(as Maelbeth), in which he was one of three scottish "kings" who met
with Cnut following the latter's return from Rome, and second was 1055D,
in which his defeat by Siward is reported. If your information is
really from the Chronicle, could you please give me a year.
Todd A. Farmerie
Lukas Huisman wrote:
>
> In the book "Britain's Royal Families" by Alison Weir, Macbeth is said
> to be the son of Finlay MacRory, Mormaer of Moray, and his wife Donalda,
> who was either the daughter of Kenneth II or Malcolm II. After Finlay's
> death she married Sigurd II Digri, Jarl of Orkney & Caithness.
This seems to confuse two different traditions. Sigurd's wife was
clearly daughter of A Malcolm, because the original source for this
information calls Thorfinn (Sigurd's son) the grandson of Malcolm. I
have not seen it before suggested that his mother was the same as the
mother of Macbeth, supposedly daughter of Malcolm or Kenneth (for which
I can find no early evidence, and it doesn't pass the smell test).
The question of Macbeth's maternity aside, it has recently been argued
that the maternal grandfather of Thorfinn of Orkney and Caithness (I
don't think Sigurd ever held Caithness) was not daughter of Malcolm II,
but instead was Malcolm, first cousin of Macbeth (the argument is made
largely on geographic grounds, the land which Thorfinn got from his
grandfather never being under control of the MacAlpins).
This coupled with the above identification would then make Findlaich
marry his brother's granddaughter, which is not acceptable.
taf