Talbot of Bashall

[Clagett, Brice]

I am struggling with the Talbots of Bashall in Mitton, Yorkshire, ancestral to Elizabeth Talbot (living 1426, d. by 1486), wife of John Stanhope (1412/3-1493), of Rampton, Notts. So far I have found three different versions of the descent:

Watney: Wallop Family:
1. Sir Edmund Talbot, of Bashall, m. Margery Byron.
2. Thomas Talbot, of Bashall, living 1372; m. Agnes de Catterall, dau. of Alan Catterall, of Wigglesworth in Craven, and his wife Isabel, dau. of Nigel Halton, of Halton in Craven. Thomas was presumably dead by 1407, since Agnes took the veil in that year.
3. Elizabeth Talbot, m. John Stanhope.

Whitaker, The History and Antiquities of the Deanery of Craven (1805):
1. Sir Edmund Talbot, of Bashall, m. Margery Byron.
2. Thomas Talbot, of Bashall; under age in 1372/3; captain of Berwick, 1386/7; captain of Guisnes, 1388/9; sent to Ireland 1405/6; d. 1413/14. He m. Margery de Halton, dau. and heiress of Nigel Halton, of Halton in Craven.
3. Sir Edmund Talbot, heir of his father in 1413/4; knighted 1439/40; sheriff of Yorkshire 1443/4; d. 1461/2. He m. Agnes, dau. and coheiress of John Arden, of Netherdarwine.
4. Elizabeth Talbot, m. John Stanhope.

Foster, Yorkshire Pedigrees:
1. Sir Edmund Talbot, of Bashall, m. Margery Byron.
2. Sir Thomas Talbot, of Bashall; under age in 1372/3; a knight by 1379/80; captain of Berwick, 1386/7; captain of Guisnes, 1388/9; granted an annuity by Richard II, 1392/3; sent to Ireland, 1405/6. No time of death given. He m. Elizabeth, dau. and coheiress of James Bellars and his wife Letitia, dau. and heiress of Walter Preston, of Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire.
3. Thomas Talbot of Bashall, "son and heir, to whom the king gave 40 marks for life. Captain of the camp at Montgomery, Wales, and of the camp of Guysnes, in Picardy, for three years." No dates given for him. He m. Agnes, dau. and heiress of Alan Catterall, of Wigglesworth in Craven, by his wife Isabella, dau. and heiress of Nigel Halton, of Halton in Craven. She took the veil in 1407, so Thomas must have been dead by then.
4. Elizabeth Talbot, m. John Stanhope. (Her brother Sir Edmund Talbot, d. 1461/2, m. Agnes, dau. of John Arden, of Nether Darwine and widow of John de Chorley, who d.s.p. 1423/4.)

Obviously the key need here is to find out whether Edmund Talbot inherited from his father or his grandfather in 1413/4. If it was his grandfather, then everything falls into place and the Foster version is correct. Sir Thomas the grandfather d. 1413/4, and his son Thomas d.v.p. by 1407.( And Elizabeth fits better as sister than as daughter of Sir Edmund.) But were both father and son captain of Guisnes, as Foster says?

"The Northern Rebellions in the Later Years of Richard II," by J.G. Bellamy, Bulletin of the John Rylands Library 47:154 (1965), is an interesting article which shows that Sir Thomas Talbot was the leader of a rebellion in Cheshire in 1393 in protest against the intended peace with France. He nonetheless stayed in the good graces of Richard II and in that of Henry IV.. Bellamy says that this same Sir Thomas Talbot was one of Oldcastle's chief lieutenants in the Lollard rising of 1414. He doesn't say what became of him then, but Henry V exterminated all the 1414 Lollards that he could lay his hands on, so this would fit very well with the hypothesis that Sir Edmund succeeded in 1413/4.

Any help would be gratefully received.