Richard de Burgh wife Margaret

[xager8on]

I have been reviewing Richard de Burgh wife Margaret and still have no
real sense (other than probably) as to who her parents are.

He married, before 27 February 1280/1, Margaret [possible daughter of
Arnoul III, Count of Guisnes, by Alice, daughter of Enguerrand III,
Lord of Coucy], who died in 1304. Having been present, 11 May 1326, in
the Irish Parliament held at Kilkenny, he went to the monastery at
Athassel, where he died 29 July 1326 and was buried shortly before 29
August. [CP XII/2: 173-7, XIV:619] and AR8 75-31 [CP V:437, IX:
403-404, XII/2:173-7, XIV:619]

The current Wikipedia article supports this notion.

But, it use to state "Richard's wife Margaret de Burgh (no direct
relation) was the daughter of Sir John de Burgh and Hawise of
Lanvaley[2]."

[2] http://www.thepeerage.com/p10248.htm#i102471 [CP VIII:170, VII:
222, XII/2:177] which still supports the above from the previous
wikipedia article

I dont have access to Complete Peerage and am wondering which/what CP
actually states about this.

The wikipedia article on Richard de Burgh refers to this post
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/1999-03/0920421247

Is John Parsons article (which I havent read and the closest library
is a good plane flight away) still the accepted daughter of Arnoul de
Guines III and Alice de Coucy?

Thanks in advance

Brad

[ADRIANCH...@aol.com]

Brad,

In my copy of CP Vol VIII p 170, I have penciled in a note that an email
(probably via gen-medieval) to the effect that C. P. Parsons has shown that
Margaret was not a "de Burgh." Unfortunately I have not dated when this
message was sent.

Adrian

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In a message dated 15/10/2011 04:45:36 GMT Daylight Time,

[ADRIANCH...@aol.com]

Brad,

I have just realized that the amendment to CP Vol XII/2 given in Vol XIV
that is:

"[possible daughter of Arnoul III, Count of Guisnes, by Alice, daughter
of Enguerrand III, Lord of Coucy]"

is based on J C Parsons article in Geneal. Mag. vol. 20 (1982) pp 335-40.
no doubt the article you refer to.

[Peter Stewart]

On 15/10/2011 10:52 PM, ADRIANCH...@aol.com wrote:
> Brad,
>
> In my copy of CP Vol VIII p 170, I have penciled in a note that an email
> (probably via gen-medieval) to the effect that C. P. Parsons has shown that
> Margaret was not a "de Burgh." Unfortunately I have not dated when this
> message was sent.

Not "C. P. Parsons" but John Carmi Parsons, in his article 'Eleanor of
Castile and the Countess Margaret of Ulster', _The Genealogists’
Magazine_ 20 (1982) 335–340.

He pointed out the unlikelihood that Richard de Burgh's wife Margaret
was the daughter of a John de Burgh of Lanvallay - the elder of these
men died in 1248 and 'can hardly have been father-in-law of a man born
as late as 1259', while the younger did have a daughter named Margaret
but she became a nun and did not receive a share with her sisters in the
Lanvallay inheritance.

The more probable, though unproven, link to the counts of Guines is
taken from Pere Anselme, who stated that an unnamed daughter of Count
Arnoul III by Alice de Coucy married an unidentified Irish lord.

In the article this information was not traced further - it came via
_Histoire généalogique des maisons de Guines, d’Ardres, de Gand, et de
Coucy_ by André Duchesne from a 15th century genealogy of the families
of Dreux and Coucy that is now in the Bibliothèque national in Paris.

No more definite evidence has come to light as far as I know.

Peter Stewart

[xager8on]

Adrian and Peter thanks. I wasnt sure if this was the latest evidence.