Looking for confirmation that Edward Griswold 1607-1690,

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David Heiden

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Jan 16, 2022, 11:09:09 AMJan 16
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Looking for confirmation that Edward Griswold 1607-1690, of Middlesex Co., CT the son of George Griswold 1548-1615 and Dorothy James 1567-1630.

"The testimony of Capt. George Griswold aged about 72 years, and the testimony of Mr. John Griswold aged about 69 years, they both being sons of George Griswold, the deponents being both of Windsor in the county of Hartford and Colony of Connecticut in New England is as follows: viz: that our Grandfather's name was EDWARD GRISWOLD and it was formerly and has ever since been always accepted and reputed that our said Grandfather's father's name was yes is it snowing out there now I know where am I Little bit chubby OK darlin’ well I feel them now so they’re having a little picnic on Sunday OK bye-bye I can’t GRISWOLD and the said George Griswold our Great Grandfather had three sons, the eldest named Edward, the second named Matthew and the third or youngest son named Thomas; and the said Edward the eldest son and the said Matthew the second son came into New England from Killingsworth in Warwickshire in England; and in all our discourses amongst the families of said Griswolds in New England, together with other elderly observing gentlemen, they are and have ever been so accepted and reputed to be, without contradiction or gainsaying, according to the best of our remembrance.
"And the Deponents further add and say that the above named Edward Griswold's eldest son has always been called and reputed to be Francis Griswold, without any contradiction or gainsaying as aforesaid that we know of.
"Windsor in Hartford County in Connecticut, New England, personally appeared, on the 19th day of January, Anno Dom. 1737-8. Capt. George Griswold and John Griswold, the above named Deponents, and made solemn Oath, in due form of law, to the truth of the above written testimony, before me,
Henry Allan, Justice of Peace

JBrand

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Jan 16, 2022, 12:41:14 PMJan 16
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It's amazing that in the sixteenth century they named someone "Yes is it snowing out there now I know where am I Little bit chubby OK darlin’ well I feel them now so they’re having a little picnic on Sunday OK bye-bye I can’t Griswold." I guess sort of like Hate-Evil Nutter and Praise-God Barebones?

Elizabeth A

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Jan 16, 2022, 12:51:01 PMJan 16
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I too found it amusing, and questioned the authenticity of the alleged document. Then I realized that probably the poster was using voice-to-text to transcribe the document in question, when they were interrupted by a side-conversation, and didn't realize that their device was still transcribing their voice.

Will Johnson

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Jan 17, 2022, 9:44:24 AMJan 17
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It has been transcribed into Wikitree as well

"On 19 Jan 1737/8, Capt. George Griswold, aged about 72, and Mr. John Griswold, aged about 69, sons of George Griwsold, both of Windsor, Conn., testified that their grandfather's name was Edward Griswold, that their great-greatfather was George Griswold who had three sons, the eldest named Edward, the second named Matthew and the third or youngest named Thomas, of whom the first two came to New England from "Killigsworth" in Warwickshire; also that said Edward's eldest son has always been reputed to be Francis Griswold. "

Patrick Nielsen Hayden

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Jan 17, 2022, 10:51:09 AMJan 17
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 08:09:07 -0800 (PST), David Heiden <dahe...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Looking for confirmation that Edward Griswold 1607-1690, of Middlesex Co.,
> CT the son of George Griswold 1548-1615 and Dorothy James 1567-1630.

This may be a little confused. To the best of my knowledge the 9 May 1700
testimony of George Griswold, aged about 67, does not address the identity
of the mother of the immigrant Edward Griswold; nor does the 19 Jan 1737/8
testimony of Capt. George Griswold, aged about 72.

Dorothy James was the wife of a Henry Griswold of Grete and Yardley. This
Henry Griswold is shown in a visitation of Warwickshire as the father of a
George Griswold, and this George Griswold was by some people identified
as the father of the immigrant Edward (b. 1607). But in 1963 Genevieve
Tylee Kiepura showed ("Griswold Ancestry in England", TAG 39:176) that the
marriage bond of Henry Griswold and Dorothy James is dated 1592, making it
implausible that their son George was the George who was identified by
multiple descendants as the father of the immigrant Edward.

Elsewhere in the same article it's noted that the parish record of Wooten
Wawen (a chapelry of Henley) contains the baptism of an Edward, son of
George Griswold, 26 Jul 1607, which matches tidily with records of the
immigrant's age; also the baptism of George, son of Roger, 6 Nov 1574, and
the burial of Dousabel, wife of George Griswold, 28 Aug 1615. This Dousabel
would seem to be a plausible candidate to have been the mother of the
immigrant Edward, even if his younger brothers had a different mother. A
Dousabel Leigh married a George Griswold on 1 Jul 1594 at Kenilworth. At
any rate, it seems reasonably clear that the immigrant Edward's mother was
not Dorothy James.

--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
p...@panix.com
http://nielsenhayden.com/genealogy-tng

Darrell E. Larocque

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Jan 17, 2022, 12:17:18 PMJan 17
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Patrick,

I may have to send you an email regarding the Wentworth genealogy one of these days soon as I noticed it on your site. I am going to be working on my Berney of Reedham line and it ties into Wentworth in England. Have you been working on that family or your wife?

I am also a Margaret Wyatt Allyn descendant as well and I am curious to also view your research as well!

Darrell E. Larocque

Patrick Nielsen Hayden

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Jan 20, 2022, 9:49:41 AMJan 20
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:17:16 -0800 (PST),
Darrell E. Larocque <frenchconn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Patrick,
>

> I may have to send you an email regarding the Wentworth genealogy one of
> these days soon as I noticed it on your site. I am going to be working on
> my Berney of Reedham line and it ties into Wentworth in England. Have you
> been working on that family or your wife?

All I know about the Berneys of Reedham is that a granddaughter of John
Berney of Reedham (d. 1440) married John Paston (1421-1466) of the Paston
Letters family. My knowledge of the ancestry of the immigrant William
Wentworth comes entirely from secondary sources, and my understanding is
that one or more articles forthcoming in TAG will disprove at least one of his
long-claimed royal ancestors. I'm no expert.

> I am also a Margaret Wyatt Allyn descendant as well and I am curious to
> also view your research as well!

It's all there on my site's entry for her:

http://nielsenhayden.com/genealogy-tng/getperson.php?personID=I4584&tree=nh1

I'm not holding anything back. There's lots more about her husband Matthew
Allyn, if you click through the link to his page; he was a genuinely
interesting figure in early Connecticut history. But this is getting a
little afield of medieval genealogy.

Darrell E. Larocque

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Jan 20, 2022, 12:06:57 PMJan 20
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On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 9:49:41 AM UTC-5, p...@panix.com wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:17:16 -0800 (PST),
> Darrell E. Larocque <frenchconn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Patrick,
> >
>
> > I may have to send you an email regarding the Wentworth genealogy one of
> > these days soon as I noticed it on your site. I am going to be working on
> > my Berney of Reedham line and it ties into Wentworth in England. Have you
> > been working on that family or your wife?
> All I know about the Berneys of Reedham is that a granddaughter of John
> Berney of Reedham (d. 1440) married John Paston (1421-1466) of the Paston
> Letters family. My knowledge of the ancestry of the immigrant William
> Wentworth comes entirely from secondary sources, and my understanding is
> that one or more articles forthcoming in TAG will disprove at least one of his
> long-claimed royal ancestors. I'm no expert.

That's fine, I didn't expect you to be an expert, far from it, just looking at what you have.

The Berney genealogy is more of a mess than the Devereux genealogy I had been working on. It turns out that many in the Paston Letters are my ancestors, but trying to identify the true lineages has proven to be incredibly frustrating.

If there is forthcoming information from TAG then I look forward to it.

> > I am also a Margaret Wyatt Allyn descendant as well and I am curious to
> > also view your research as well!
> It's all there on my site's entry for her:
>
> http://nielsenhayden.com/genealogy-tng/getperson.php?personID=I4584&tree=nh1
>
> I'm not holding anything back. There's lots more about her husband Matthew
> Allyn, if you click through the link to his page; he was a genuinely
> interesting figure in early Connecticut history. But this is getting a
> little afield of medieval genealogy.

I will look at it, and yes, it is not medieval, just a note!

Darrell

John Higgins

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Jan 20, 2022, 1:55:15 PMJan 20
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On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 6:49:41 AM UTC-8, p...@panix.com wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:17:16 -0800 (PST),
> Darrell E. Larocque <frenchconn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Patrick,
> >
>
My knowledge of the ancestry of the immigrant William
> Wentworth comes entirely from secondary sources, and my understanding is
> that one or more articles forthcoming in TAG will disprove at least one of his
> long-claimed royal ancestors. I'm no expert.

Terry J. Booth, Paul C. Reed, and Nathaniel Lane Taylor published an article in 2 parts in vol. 90 (2018) of TAG, showing the male-line ancestry of William Wentworth for five generations.. As I recall, there was a footnote discussing the status of various proposed royal descents for William Wentworth. Per the authors at that time, there may be further articles planned.

More recently the same authors published another article in 2 parts in vol. 91 (2021) of TAG regarding Margaret de Brewse, 1st Wife of Sir Thomas Hawley, which is subtitled "A New Royal Line for the Marbury-Wentworth Immigrant Cousins". I haven't yet read the 2nd two-part article.

You can see the detailed citations these articles here: https://americangenealogist.com/contents/recent-issues/

If your local library has an interlibrary service, it should be easy for you to obtain copies of these articles if you're interested.

Johnny Brananas

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Jan 20, 2022, 2:27:14 PMJan 20
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Margaret de Brewse (or de Braose) was a member of the same family ancestral to a number of other immigrants, including Gov. Thomas Dudley, Edmund Hawes, and (probably) the Ward-Markham group from Little Wratting.

I wonder what the Samuel Bellingham note is about ... hopefully not just a repetition of stuff that was posted on the newsgroup in the recent past.

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/9CfzJSyc_R0/m/t-mlBMFpAgAJ

I notice that some collection of manuscripts contains (used to contain?) a letter from Samuel Bellingham to his son Samuel, 1666.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Catalogue_of_the_Manuscripts_Preserved/1f8UAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22samuel+bellingham%22+letter&pg=PA742&printsec=frontcover

Possibly the same people?
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