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New Scottish Princess: Maud of Huntingdon, wife of John de Monmouth, of Monmouth, Monmouthshire
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Douglas Richardson
Jun 29, 2013, 5:15:20 PM6/29/13
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Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 169 (sub Chester) and 6 (1926): 647 (sub Huntingdon) both include accounts of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237), son and heir of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219) (brother of Kings Malcolm and William of Scotland). While Complete Peerage refers to him as "John le Scot," I find that during his lifetime, Earl John was known simply as John of Scotland, as indicated by many contemporary charters, including the items cited in the following citation:
Dowden, Chartulary of the Abbey of Lindores (Scottish Hist. Soc. 42) (1903): 18–19 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20–21 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 21–22 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 22–23 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24–25 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 93–94, 97–98 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 183–184 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon).
Complete Peerage, 6 (1926): 647 (sub Huntingdon) indicates that John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237) had three sisters, namely Margaret (wife of Alan, Lord of Galloway), Isabel (wife of Robert de Brus, lord of Annandale), and Ada (wife of Henry de Hastings). Contemporary records provide full documentation for the existence and marriages of these three sisters.
Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 169 (sub Chester), however, gives Earl John a fourth sister, Maud, who it states "died unmarried." No source is provided for the statement regarding Maud, nor is she mentioned in the Huntingdon account published by Complete Peerage two decades later. Maud is notably not included as a child of her parents in two usually reliable Scottish sources, namely Scots Peerage 1 (1904): 3–5 (sub Kings of Scotland) and Dunbar, Scottish Kings (1906): 58 70. As such, I assumed that Maud might perhaps be a fictitious child of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219), and his wife, Maud of Chester.
Recently I had the opportunity to examine a pedigree chart of this family found on the website, People of Medieval Scotland, 1093-1314, which is available at the following weblink:
http://www.poms.ac.uk
The family tree in question is found at the following weblink:
http://db.poms.ac.uk/familytrees/2
The pedigree provides John of Scotland with the same proven and acknowledged three sisters mentioned by Complete Peerage. But it also gives him a fourth sister, Maud, who it states married John of Monmouth (II). Once again, no documentation is provided for this information.
Since this was the second time that I had found Maud mentioned in available sources, I thought it wise to investigate the matter further. The People of Medieval Scotland pedigree chart even provided her with a husband. That was certainly a good place to start looking.
Surprisingly, I discovered that Maud was mentioned in two earlier sources in the secondary literature, one reference being published in 1812, and the other in 1857. Both sources state that Maud of Huntingdon married John de Monmouth. I've copied the pertinent passages from these two sources which relate to Maud and her husband below.
1. Duncumb, Collections towards the History and Antiquities of the County of Hereford, 2(1) (1812): 368–369 (“John de Monmouth, junior, paid £100 for his relief, and had livery of his lands in 32 Henry III., A.D. 1248. He augmented the revenues of the Priory by further grants of lands, &c. In 1256, being heavily in debt to the Crown, in consideration of the payment of which by Prince Edward, he conveyed to him his Town and Lordship of Monmouth with the consent of the King, who confirmed it by patent, A.D. 1257. This John, Lord of Monmouth, married Maud, daughter of David Earl of Huntingdon …”). END OF QUOTE.
2. Lee, History of the Town and Parish of Tetbury (1857): 209 (“John de Monmouth, Baron of Monmouth, married, first, Cecily, daughter and co-heiress of William Walleran; and secondly, Agnes, daughter and co-heiress of Wm. de Musgros, and had issue, i. John de Monmouth, who married, first, Maud, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, and had issue a daughter; married, secondly, Catherine _____. He died before 1274. ii. Richard de Wyesham, ancestor of the Wyeshams.”). END OF QUOTE.
Both Duncumb and Lee allege that John de Monmouth married Maud, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, but, once again, they provide no documentation for this information.
After further investigation, I discovered that Maud was in fact included as a child of David, Earl of Huntingdon, and his wife, Maud, in a detailed pedigree of the family of the Earls of Chester found in an early medieval source, Annales Londoniensis. A transcript of Annales Londoniensis is published in Stubbs, Chronicles of the Reigns of Edward I and Edward II (Rolls Ser.) (1882): 126. The information in Annales Londoniensis reads as follows:
“Ranulphus comes Cestriæ habuit quatuor sorores : primogenita nomine Matillda fuit desponsata comiti David, .... Matillda primogenita habuit filium quemdam nomine Johannem qui [habuit] comitatum Cestriæ, et quatuor filias, Margaretam, Isabellam, Matilldam et Aldam. Margareta nupsit Alano de Gaweie et habuit filiam nomine Deuergoille quae erat uxor [Johannis] Baillol : Isabella nupsit Roberto de Brus et habuit filium Robertum de Brus, qui decessit sine liberis; Alda nupsit Henrico de Hasting et genuit Henricum de Hasting.”). END OF QUOTE.
As we can see above, Maud is included as a child of Earl David, but no marriage is provided for her. I presume Annales Londoniensis is the source for Complete Peerage's statement regarding her published in 1913.
Checking further still, I learned that Maud of Huntingdon is elsewhere briefly discussed in a more recent book, Stringer, Earl David of Huntingdon 1152–1219 (1985): 181, 313, note 10. In note 10 on page 313, Stringer says the following regarding Maud:
“Earl David’s daughter Maud, wife of John of Monmouth II, died childless earlier than [her brother] Earl John. For her marriage, hitherto unknown to family historians, see PRO DL 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.” END OF QUOTE.
As we can see, Stringer finally provides us with a source for Maud and her marriage, namely Public Record Office, Duchy of Lancaster, 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.” Stringer assumed that he was making an original discovery, whereas Maud's parentage and marriage appeared in print as shown above as early as 1812. While I haven't yet examined the original Duchy of Lancaster record, I have no doubt that it proves that Maud, daughter of Earl David, existed and that she married John de Monmouth.
For interest's sake, I've copied further below my current account of Maud of Huntingdon and her husband, John de Monmouth. Little is known of John de Monmouth's life, as he only had possession of his inheritance from 1248 (date of his father's death) until 1257 (date of his own death). Being heavily in debt to the Crown, shortly before he died, he conveyed a major part of his inheritance, namely the Castle, town, and honour of Monmouth, Monmouthshire to Prince Edward [afterwards King Edward I], which grant was confirmed by King Henry III 13 Sept. 1256. John de Monmouth was survived by a second wife, Isabel (or Elizabeth), who subsequently married (2nd) about 6 Nov. 1259 (as his 2nd wife) Thomas de Multon, Knt., of Egremont, Cumberland, Fleet, Lutton, and Moulton, Lincolnshire. Isabel (or Elizabeth) was living in 1276, and dead in 1278.
I should note that contemporary records make it clear that Maud of Huntingdon predeceased her brother, Earl John, who died shortly before 6 June 1237. She left no surviving issue.
For further details of the family and descendants of David, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219), please see my book, Royal Ancestry, published earlier this year.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
MAUD OF HUNTINGDON, married (as his 1st wife) JOHN DE MONMOUTH (or DE MONEMUTH), of Monmouth and Penrose, Monmouthshire, Llandingat, Carmarthenshire, Sutton Waldron, Dorset, Hewelsfield, Gloucestershire, Steeple Langford, Wiltshire, Birtsmorton, Worcestershire, etc., son and heir of John de Monmouth, Knt., of Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Manston, Maiden Newton, and Sutton Waldron, Dorset, Hewelsfield, Gloucestershire, West Dean (in West Tytherley), Hampshire, Great Wishford and Steeple Langford, Wiltshire, Birtsmorton, Worcestershire, etc., Governor of St. Briavel’s Castle, Keeper of New Forest, Justice of South Wales, by his 1st wife, Cecily, daughter and co-heiress of Walter Waleran, of Steeple Langford, Wiltshire, West Dean (in West Tytherley), Hampshire, etc. They had no issue. In 1208 he and his brother, Philip, were demanded by King John as hostages for their father’s good behavior. His wife, Maud, died before 6 June 1237. He married (2nd) ISABEL (or ELIZABETH) _____. They had no issue. He had livery of his father’s lands 26 Sept. 1248. In 1251 Waleran le Tieis was ordered to deliver Penrose Castle to him, with the goods therein and the appertaining lands and tenements. In 1253 he conveyed to his kinsman, Robert Waleran, all the bailiwick and ministries of the New Forest. He granted the Castle, town, and honour of Monmouth, Monmouthshire to Prince Edward [afterwards King Edward I], which grant was confirmed by King Henry III 13 Sept. 1256. At an unknown date, he settled the manor of Steeple Langford, Wiltshire on his half-brother, John de Monmouth, who was executed for a felony in 1281. JOHN DE MONMOUTH died shortly before 20 March 1257. His widow, Isabel, married (2nd) about 6 Nov. 1259 (as his 2nd wife) THOMAS DE MULTON, Knt. [see HARINGTON 7], of Egremont, Cumberland, Fleet, Lutton, and Moulton, Lincolnshire, son and heir of Lambert de Multon, Knt., of Egremont, Cumberland, Upper Rawcliffe, Lancashire, Fleet, Lincolnshire, etc., by his 1st wife, Amabil, daughter and co-heiress of Richard de Lucy [see HARINGTON 6 for his ancestry]. He was born about 1225 (aged 21 in 1246). Isabel was living in 1276, and dead in 1278. SIR THOMAS DE MULTON died shortly before 29 April 1294. He left a will proved 13 April 1295.
References:
Banks, Dormant & Extinct Baronage of England 1 (1807): 138–139 (sub Monmouth). Blomefield, Essay towards a Top. Hist. of Norfolk 9 (1808): 316–327. Duncumb, Colls. towards the Hist. & Antiqs. of the County of Hereford 2(1) (1812): 368–369 (“John de Monmouth, junior, paid £100 for his relief, and had livery of his lands in 32 Henry III., A.D. 1248. He augmented the revenues of the Priory by further grants of lands, &c. In 1256, being heavily in debt to the Crown, in consideration of the payment of which by Prince Edward, he conveyed to him his Town and Lordship of Monmouth with the consent of the King, who confirmed it by patent, A.D. 1257. This John, Lord of Monmouth, married Maud, daughter of David Earl of Huntingdon …”). Lee, Hist. of the Town & Parish of Tetbury (1857): 209 (“John de Monmouth, Baron of Monmouth, married, first, Cecily, daughter and co-heiress of William Walleran; and secondly, Agnes, daughter and co-heiress of Wm. de Musgros, and had issue, i. John de Monmouth, who married, first, Maud, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, and had issue a daughter; married, secondly, Catherine _____. He died before 1274. ii. Richard de Wyesham, ancestor of the Wyeshams.”). Hutchins, Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 4 (1870): 108. D.N.B. 38 (1894): 177–178 (biog. of John de Monmouth). Cal. Charter Rolls 1 (1903): 462. Cal. I.P.M. 1 (1904): 101. Cal. Patent Rolls, 1247–1258 (1908): 28, 29, 77, 98, 100, 202, 254, 500, 545, 594, 595. Cal. Patent Rolls, 1258–1266 (1910): 59. VCH Hampshire 4 (1911): 519–524. VCH Worcester 4 (1924): 29–33. C.P. 9 (1936): 402–403 (sub Multon). Sanders, English Baronies (1960): 64–65, 96. VCH Dorset 3 (1968): 58. Stringer, Earl David of Huntingdon 1152–1219 (1985): 181, 313, note 10 (“Earl David’s daughter Maud, wife of John of Monmouth II, died childless earlier than [her brother] Earl John. For her marriage, hitherto unknown to family historians, see PRO DL 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.”). Coss & Lloyd, Thirteenth Cent. England I (1986): 100, footnote 3. Aston, Landlords, Peasants, & Politics in Medieval England (1987): 183–184. VCH Wiltshire 15 (1995): 284–294. VCH Gloucester 5 (1996): 150–159; 11 (1976): 111–119. Holden, Lords of the Central Marches (2008): 258 (Monmouth ped.).
Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 169 (sub Chester) and 6 (1926): 647 (sub Huntingdon) both include accounts of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237), son and heir of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219) (brother of Kings Malcolm and William of Scotland). While Complete Peerage refers to him as "John le Scot," I find that during his lifetime, Earl John was known simply as John of Scotland, as indicated by many contemporary charters, including the items cited in the following citation:
Dowden, Chartulary of the Abbey of Lindores (Scottish Hist. Soc. 42) (1903): 18–19 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20–21 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 21–22 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 22–23 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24–25 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 93–94, 97–98 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 183–184 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon).
Complete Peerage, 6 (1926): 647 (sub Huntingdon) indicates that John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237) had three sisters, namely Margaret (wife of Alan, Lord of Galloway), Isabel (wife of Robert de Brus, lord of Annandale), and Ada (wife of Henry de Hastings). Contemporary records provide full documentation for the existence and marriages of these three sisters.
Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 169 (sub Chester), however, gives Earl John a fourth sister, Maud, who it states "died unmarried." No source is provided for the statement regarding Maud, nor is she mentioned in the Huntingdon account published by Complete Peerage two decades later. Maud is notably not included as a child of her parents in two usually reliable Scottish sources, namely Scots Peerage 1 (1904): 3–5 (sub Kings of Scotland) and Dunbar, Scottish Kings (1906): 58 70. As such, I assumed that Maud might perhaps be a fictitious child of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219), and his wife, Maud of Chester.
Recently I had the opportunity to examine a pedigree chart of this family found on the website, People of Medieval Scotland, 1093-1314, which is available at the following weblink:
http://www.poms.ac.uk
The family tree in question is found at the following weblink:
http://db.poms.ac.uk/familytrees/2
The pedigree provides John of Scotland with the same proven and acknowledged three sisters mentioned by Complete Peerage. But it also gives him a fourth sister, Maud, who it states married John of Monmouth (II). Once again, no documentation is provided for this information.
Since this was the second time that I had found Maud mentioned in available sources, I thought it wise to investigate the matter further. The People of Medieval Scotland pedigree chart even provided her with a husband. That was certainly a good place to start looking.
Surprisingly, I discovered that Maud was mentioned in two earlier sources in the secondary literature, one reference being published in 1812, and the other in 1857. Both sources state that Maud of Huntingdon married John de Monmouth. I've copied the pertinent passages from these two sources which relate to Maud and her husband below.
1. Duncumb, Collections towards the History and Antiquities of the County of Hereford, 2(1) (1812): 368–369 (“John de Monmouth, junior, paid £100 for his relief, and had livery of his lands in 32 Henry III., A.D. 1248. He augmented the revenues of the Priory by further grants of lands, &c. In 1256, being heavily in debt to the Crown, in consideration of the payment of which by Prince Edward, he conveyed to him his Town and Lordship of Monmouth with the consent of the King, who confirmed it by patent, A.D. 1257. This John, Lord of Monmouth, married Maud, daughter of David Earl of Huntingdon …”). END OF QUOTE.
2. Lee, History of the Town and Parish of Tetbury (1857): 209 (“John de Monmouth, Baron of Monmouth, married, first, Cecily, daughter and co-heiress of William Walleran; and secondly, Agnes, daughter and co-heiress of Wm. de Musgros, and had issue, i. John de Monmouth, who married, first, Maud, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, and had issue a daughter; married, secondly, Catherine _____. He died before 1274. ii. Richard de Wyesham, ancestor of the Wyeshams.”). END OF QUOTE.
Both Duncumb and Lee allege that John de Monmouth married Maud, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, but, once again, they provide no documentation for this information.
After further investigation, I discovered that Maud was in fact included as a child of David, Earl of Huntingdon, and his wife, Maud, in a detailed pedigree of the family of the Earls of Chester found in an early medieval source, Annales Londoniensis. A transcript of Annales Londoniensis is published in Stubbs, Chronicles of the Reigns of Edward I and Edward II (Rolls Ser.) (1882): 126. The information in Annales Londoniensis reads as follows:
“Ranulphus comes Cestriæ habuit quatuor sorores : primogenita nomine Matillda fuit desponsata comiti David, .... Matillda primogenita habuit filium quemdam nomine Johannem qui [habuit] comitatum Cestriæ, et quatuor filias, Margaretam, Isabellam, Matilldam et Aldam. Margareta nupsit Alano de Gaweie et habuit filiam nomine Deuergoille quae erat uxor [Johannis] Baillol : Isabella nupsit Roberto de Brus et habuit filium Robertum de Brus, qui decessit sine liberis; Alda nupsit Henrico de Hasting et genuit Henricum de Hasting.”). END OF QUOTE.
As we can see above, Maud is included as a child of Earl David, but no marriage is provided for her. I presume Annales Londoniensis is the source for Complete Peerage's statement regarding her published in 1913.
Checking further still, I learned that Maud of Huntingdon is elsewhere briefly discussed in a more recent book, Stringer, Earl David of Huntingdon 1152–1219 (1985): 181, 313, note 10. In note 10 on page 313, Stringer says the following regarding Maud:
“Earl David’s daughter Maud, wife of John of Monmouth II, died childless earlier than [her brother] Earl John. For her marriage, hitherto unknown to family historians, see PRO DL 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.” END OF QUOTE.
As we can see, Stringer finally provides us with a source for Maud and her marriage, namely Public Record Office, Duchy of Lancaster, 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.” Stringer assumed that he was making an original discovery, whereas Maud's parentage and marriage appeared in print as shown above as early as 1812. While I haven't yet examined the original Duchy of Lancaster record, I have no doubt that it proves that Maud, daughter of Earl David, existed and that she married John de Monmouth.
For interest's sake, I've copied further below my current account of Maud of Huntingdon and her husband, John de Monmouth. Little is known of John de Monmouth's life, as he only had possession of his inheritance from 1248 (date of his father's death) until 1257 (date of his own death). Being heavily in debt to the Crown, shortly before he died, he conveyed a major part of his inheritance, namely the Castle, town, and honour of Monmouth, Monmouthshire to Prince Edward [afterwards King Edward I], which grant was confirmed by King Henry III 13 Sept. 1256. John de Monmouth was survived by a second wife, Isabel (or Elizabeth), who subsequently married (2nd) about 6 Nov. 1259 (as his 2nd wife) Thomas de Multon, Knt., of Egremont, Cumberland, Fleet, Lutton, and Moulton, Lincolnshire. Isabel (or Elizabeth) was living in 1276, and dead in 1278.
I should note that contemporary records make it clear that Maud of Huntingdon predeceased her brother, Earl John, who died shortly before 6 June 1237. She left no surviving issue.
For further details of the family and descendants of David, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219), please see my book, Royal Ancestry, published earlier this year.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
MAUD OF HUNTINGDON, married (as his 1st wife) JOHN DE MONMOUTH (or DE MONEMUTH), of Monmouth and Penrose, Monmouthshire, Llandingat, Carmarthenshire, Sutton Waldron, Dorset, Hewelsfield, Gloucestershire, Steeple Langford, Wiltshire, Birtsmorton, Worcestershire, etc., son and heir of John de Monmouth, Knt., of Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Manston, Maiden Newton, and Sutton Waldron, Dorset, Hewelsfield, Gloucestershire, West Dean (in West Tytherley), Hampshire, Great Wishford and Steeple Langford, Wiltshire, Birtsmorton, Worcestershire, etc., Governor of St. Briavel’s Castle, Keeper of New Forest, Justice of South Wales, by his 1st wife, Cecily, daughter and co-heiress of Walter Waleran, of Steeple Langford, Wiltshire, West Dean (in West Tytherley), Hampshire, etc. They had no issue. In 1208 he and his brother, Philip, were demanded by King John as hostages for their father’s good behavior. His wife, Maud, died before 6 June 1237. He married (2nd) ISABEL (or ELIZABETH) _____. They had no issue. He had livery of his father’s lands 26 Sept. 1248. In 1251 Waleran le Tieis was ordered to deliver Penrose Castle to him, with the goods therein and the appertaining lands and tenements. In 1253 he conveyed to his kinsman, Robert Waleran, all the bailiwick and ministries of the New Forest. He granted the Castle, town, and honour of Monmouth, Monmouthshire to Prince Edward [afterwards King Edward I], which grant was confirmed by King Henry III 13 Sept. 1256. At an unknown date, he settled the manor of Steeple Langford, Wiltshire on his half-brother, John de Monmouth, who was executed for a felony in 1281. JOHN DE MONMOUTH died shortly before 20 March 1257. His widow, Isabel, married (2nd) about 6 Nov. 1259 (as his 2nd wife) THOMAS DE MULTON, Knt. [see HARINGTON 7], of Egremont, Cumberland, Fleet, Lutton, and Moulton, Lincolnshire, son and heir of Lambert de Multon, Knt., of Egremont, Cumberland, Upper Rawcliffe, Lancashire, Fleet, Lincolnshire, etc., by his 1st wife, Amabil, daughter and co-heiress of Richard de Lucy [see HARINGTON 6 for his ancestry]. He was born about 1225 (aged 21 in 1246). Isabel was living in 1276, and dead in 1278. SIR THOMAS DE MULTON died shortly before 29 April 1294. He left a will proved 13 April 1295.
References:
Banks, Dormant & Extinct Baronage of England 1 (1807): 138–139 (sub Monmouth). Blomefield, Essay towards a Top. Hist. of Norfolk 9 (1808): 316–327. Duncumb, Colls. towards the Hist. & Antiqs. of the County of Hereford 2(1) (1812): 368–369 (“John de Monmouth, junior, paid £100 for his relief, and had livery of his lands in 32 Henry III., A.D. 1248. He augmented the revenues of the Priory by further grants of lands, &c. In 1256, being heavily in debt to the Crown, in consideration of the payment of which by Prince Edward, he conveyed to him his Town and Lordship of Monmouth with the consent of the King, who confirmed it by patent, A.D. 1257. This John, Lord of Monmouth, married Maud, daughter of David Earl of Huntingdon …”). Lee, Hist. of the Town & Parish of Tetbury (1857): 209 (“John de Monmouth, Baron of Monmouth, married, first, Cecily, daughter and co-heiress of William Walleran; and secondly, Agnes, daughter and co-heiress of Wm. de Musgros, and had issue, i. John de Monmouth, who married, first, Maud, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, and had issue a daughter; married, secondly, Catherine _____. He died before 1274. ii. Richard de Wyesham, ancestor of the Wyeshams.”). Hutchins, Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 4 (1870): 108. D.N.B. 38 (1894): 177–178 (biog. of John de Monmouth). Cal. Charter Rolls 1 (1903): 462. Cal. I.P.M. 1 (1904): 101. Cal. Patent Rolls, 1247–1258 (1908): 28, 29, 77, 98, 100, 202, 254, 500, 545, 594, 595. Cal. Patent Rolls, 1258–1266 (1910): 59. VCH Hampshire 4 (1911): 519–524. VCH Worcester 4 (1924): 29–33. C.P. 9 (1936): 402–403 (sub Multon). Sanders, English Baronies (1960): 64–65, 96. VCH Dorset 3 (1968): 58. Stringer, Earl David of Huntingdon 1152–1219 (1985): 181, 313, note 10 (“Earl David’s daughter Maud, wife of John of Monmouth II, died childless earlier than [her brother] Earl John. For her marriage, hitherto unknown to family historians, see PRO DL 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.”). Coss & Lloyd, Thirteenth Cent. England I (1986): 100, footnote 3. Aston, Landlords, Peasants, & Politics in Medieval England (1987): 183–184. VCH Wiltshire 15 (1995): 284–294. VCH Gloucester 5 (1996): 150–159; 11 (1976): 111–119. Holden, Lords of the Central Marches (2008): 258 (Monmouth ped.).
Derek Howard
Jul 6, 2013, 3:41:21 AM7/6/13
to
On Saturday, June 29, 2013 11:15:20 PM UTC+2, Douglas Richardson wrote:
<snip>
Just to note that DL 42/2 is listed on TNA Discovery catalogue as:
"Great cowcher or carte regum, II. Copies of deeds of title etc of the Duchy of Lancaster dated Hen I-Hen IV. For calendar see DL 41/36/12 & IND 1/17591 and for 15th century transcript see DL 42/192-193. An index is on open access. See Finding Aids Location Index" and is dated to c 1402.
Derek Howard
<snip>
> Checking further still, I learned that Maud of Huntingdon is elsewhere
> briefly discussed in a more recent book, Stringer, Earl David of Huntingdon
> 1152–1219 (1985): 181, 313, note 10. In note 10 on page 313, Stringer says
> the following regarding Maud:
>
> “Earl David’s daughter Maud, wife of John of Monmouth II, died childless
> earlier than [her brother] Earl John. For her marriage, hitherto unknown to
> family historians, see PRO DL 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.” END OF QUOTE.
>
> As we can see, Stringer finally provides us with a source for Maud and her
> marriage, namely Public Record Office, Duchy of Lancaster, 42/2, fos. 196v.–
> 7r.” Stringer assumed that he was making an original discovery, whereas
> Maud's parentage and marriage appeared in print as shown above as early as
> 1812. While I haven't yet examined the original Duchy of Lancaster record, I
> have no doubt that it proves that Maud, daughter of Earl David, existed and
> that she married John de Monmouth.
<snip>
> briefly discussed in a more recent book, Stringer, Earl David of Huntingdon
> 1152–1219 (1985): 181, 313, note 10. In note 10 on page 313, Stringer says
> the following regarding Maud:
>
> “Earl David’s daughter Maud, wife of John of Monmouth II, died childless
> earlier than [her brother] Earl John. For her marriage, hitherto unknown to
> family historians, see PRO DL 42/2, fos. 196v.–7r.” END OF QUOTE.
>
> As we can see, Stringer finally provides us with a source for Maud and her
> marriage, namely Public Record Office, Duchy of Lancaster, 42/2, fos. 196v.–
> 7r.” Stringer assumed that he was making an original discovery, whereas
> Maud's parentage and marriage appeared in print as shown above as early as
> 1812. While I haven't yet examined the original Duchy of Lancaster record, I
> have no doubt that it proves that Maud, daughter of Earl David, existed and
> that she married John de Monmouth.
Just to note that DL 42/2 is listed on TNA Discovery catalogue as:
"Great cowcher or carte regum, II. Copies of deeds of title etc of the Duchy of Lancaster dated Hen I-Hen IV. For calendar see DL 41/36/12 & IND 1/17591 and for 15th century transcript see DL 42/192-193. An index is on open access. See Finding Aids Location Index" and is dated to c 1402.
Derek Howard
John P. Ravilious
Jul 8, 2013, 9:02:33 PM7/8/13
to
On Saturday, June 29, 2013 5:15:20 PM UTC-4, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
>
>
> Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 169 (sub Chester) and 6 (1926): 647 (sub Huntingdon) both include accounts of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237), son and heir of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219) (brother of Kings Malcolm and William of Scotland). While Complete Peerage refers to him as "John le Scot," I find that during his lifetime, Earl John was known simply as John of Scotland, as indicated by many contemporary charters, including the items cited in the following citation:
>
>
>
> Dowden, Chartulary of the Abbey of Lindores (Scottish Hist. Soc. 42) (1903): 18–19 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20–21 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 21–22 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 22–23 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24–25 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 93–94, 97–98 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 183–184 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon).
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> Dear Newsgroup ~
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> Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 169 (sub Chester) and 6 (1926): 647 (sub Huntingdon) both include accounts of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237), son and heir of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon (died 1219) (brother of Kings Malcolm and William of Scotland). While Complete Peerage refers to him as "John le Scot," I find that during his lifetime, Earl John was known simply as John of Scotland, as indicated by many contemporary charters, including the items cited in the following citation:
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> Dowden, Chartulary of the Abbey of Lindores (Scottish Hist. Soc. 42) (1903): 18–19 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon), 20–21 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 21–22 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 22–23 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 24–25 (letter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 93–94, 97–98 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon), 183–184 (charter of John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon).
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Dear Douglas, et al.,
The existence of Maud, or Matilda, had perhaps disappeared from most renderings of the family of Earl David due to the lack of issue, and thereby of any historical significance with regard to the later crisis of the Scottish succession.
However, her existence was kindly noted by John de Baliol (the eventual winner in the 13th cent. Scottish Sweepstakes) in explaining his claim to the throne. With regard to John 'le Scot', Earl of Chester, Baliol's recitation named them in order, with Maud/Matilda listed as the third sister:
" Unde de eodem Johanne descendit jus, et debuit descendere,
Margaretae, Isabellae, Mathildae et Adae, ut sororibus et
uni haeredi,..." [1]
Cheers,
John
Notes
[1] Tracts illustrative of the traditionary & historical antiquities of Scotland [Edinburgh: J. Stillie, 1836], p. 87.
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