The Sisters de Crepon
jamesdowallen
Can anyone help straighten out some of the confusion
regarding Woerta de Crepon and her sisters?
Herfastus de Crepon (b. abt. 911 in Normandy) had one son
and four daughters: Duvelina, Senfria, Gunnora and Woerta.
(Duvelina was also known as Avelina, Dulceline, or Eva.)
However some sources show these sisters as daughters of
Harald ``Bluetooth'' Gormsson, King of Denmark.
Gunnora (Gonnor) was the mistress of Richard I Count or Duke
of Normandy and great grandmother of William the Conqueror.
Woerta (Wevia) was the wife of Osbern (Giffard) de Bolebec
(b. abt. 940) and of Touroude (Torulf) de Pont-Audemer
(b. abt. 950), the son of a Prince of Denmark. Touroude is
shown as also mating Woerta's sister Duvelina and marrying
Awelina, daughter of King Harald Bluetooth.
Who were really the fathers-in-law of Duke Richrd I, Osbern de
Bolebec, Touroude de Pont-Audemer, and how did the confusion
arise?
There's also some confusion regarding Woerta's children and
their spouses.
Thanks in advance for any help.
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Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Can anyone help straighten out some of the confusion
> regarding Woerta de Crepon and her sisters?
Well, the earliest available record calls her Wevia, so Woerta is just a
bad typo, and she wasn't from Crepon.
> Herfastus de Crepon (b. abt. 911 in Normandy) had one son
> and four daughters: Duvelina, Senfria, Gunnora and Woerta.
This was not the name of their father, but their brother. There is no
source written within 500 years of them which gives a name to their
father, and all such attempts are flawed.
> (Duvelina was also known as Avelina, Dulceline, or Eva.)
Avelina in the original, but a granddaughter was called Duvelina,
suggesting that this was her actual name.
> However some sources show these sisters as daughters of
> Harald ``Bluetooth'' Gormsson, King of Denmark.
This is wrong (even ridiculous).
> Gunnora (Gonnor) was the mistress of Richard I Count or Duke
> of Normandy and great grandmother of William the Conqueror.
>
> Woerta (Wevia) was the wife of Osbern (Giffard) de Bolebec
> (b. abt. 940) and of Touroude (Torulf) de Pont-Audemer
> (b. abt. 950), the son of a Prince of Denmark. Touroude is
> shown as also mating Woerta's sister Duvelina and marrying
> Awelina, daughter of King Harald Bluetooth.
Oi! You have fallen victim to those who, when they find conflicting
information try to make both versions correct. One sister married
Osbern, the other married Torulf. The problem is that the two earliest
sources, which are from about the same time, show opposite accounts.
Because a granddaughtr of Torulf was named Duvelina, it is perhaps more
likely that Torulf married Duvelina/Avelina, while Osbern married Wevia
(and the whole Bluetooth thing is just wrong - the King of Denmark would
not marry his daughter to a man in the lowest level of norman gentry -
if he wanted to marry her to a nobody, there were plenty of them in
Denmark).
> Who were really the fathers-in-law of Duke Richrd I, Osbern de
> Bolebec, Touroude de Pont-Audemer, and how did the confusion
> arise?
All that is known about these siblings ancestry is that they belonged to
a norman gentry family that was (like most of the norman gentry
families) of Danish origin. The confusion regarding their parentage
arose because "genealogists" were not satisfied with the historical
record, and made various not-so-educated guesses, that either their
brother's name was also their father's, or else that they must have been
children of some King somewhere, so why not Denmark (perhaps this
resulted in part from confused accounts of a marriage between a Duke of
Normandy and a daughter of Danish King Swein). As to the marriage
problem, as I said, the earliest sources conflict, so rather than either
trying to decide which one was right, or else just deciding to indicate
that there is a conflict and indicating that it was either one way or
the other, they decided it must be both, then all three, to account for
thedifference in parentage as well.
>
> There's also some confusion regarding Woerta's children and
> their spouses.
For the sake of precision, we should really be talking about Osbern's
children, since we don't know for certain which sister married which.
That being said, the problem comes when, again, people have been
unwilling to accept the data at face value and not force it into a
structure. Osbern de Bolbec (not Giffard, which was a personal nickname
of his son) was father of two known sons, Walter Giffard, and Godfrey of
Arques. Also known are a long list of nieces of Gunnora, and various
people have stuck these under the various sisters, even though only one
of them can be placed with anything more accurate than pulling one of
the sisters' names out of a hat. If any daughters are given for Osbern,
it is nothing more than a guess, based on no historical evidence
whatsoever.
taf
edw.morgan
being a nickname (see below). Did Giffard have a son or grandson called
Berenger Giffard born about 1045 or is this another Giffard family?
Edward Morgan.
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Osbern de Bolebec had two sons, one of whom was Walter Giffard, Giffard
> being a nickname (see below). Did Giffard have a son or grandson called
> Berenger Giffard born about 1045 or is this another Giffard family?
I have never seen this individual before, so i can't say one way or the
other.
taf
Richard Borthwick
of the Giffards of Fonthill. In 1166 Gerold fitz Robert Giffard was his
successor. She also says that he was one of the Giffards of Bolbec and
Longueville.