Re: Sir William Browne of Flushing marries a Huguenot
ADRIANCH...@aol.com
"(I) Sir Wm. Browne, b. in 1558 at Snelston, [Derbs] served for several
years in the Low Countries and d. there in 1610, August: was Lieut Governor of
Flushing m Mary Savage, b. in Germany, naturalized in 1600"
Could be she was a French women born in Germany and moved to Flushing?
As she was a Huguenot, she would have been a Protestant (Calvinist). I
don't think they were entirely confined to France, but were also in the low
countries. No doubt someone here could be more authoritative.
Adrian
In a message dated 29/05/2007 16:55:37 GMT Standard Time,
starb...@hotmail.com writes:
A while back, I posted the following information --
_Calendar of State Papers, Foreign Series, of the Reign of Elizabeth_,
vol. 21, part 4, (January-June 1588), p. 37:
[Jan. 28, 1588.] WILLIAM BROWNE to his master, SIR FRAS. WALSINGHAM.
Asks approval for his marriage in those parts, to a Frenchwoman of
small substance, and no great lineage, being forced to it by
constraint of commanding accidents.---Flushing, 28 January, 1588.
As I posted a couple years ago, his wife was related to people named
"de Blocq" and "de Calvaert."
* * * * *
Nigel Goose's _Immigrants in Tudor and Early Stewart England_ states
she was a Huguenot.
http://books.google.com/books?id=PO5HeRGMqUwC&pg=PA217&dq=%22william+browne%22
+flushing&sig=9Lma_YnCg_VXKQ6dVaILpipIF28#PPA217,M1
Is this the only possibility for a Frenchwoman? I suppose so, as she
probably would not have been Catholic. Or were the Walloons a
Protestant sect?
WJhonson
Was Nicholas a son of Sir William Browne of Flambard's Hall? by his wife Alice Kebyll ?
Or was Nicholas a son of John Browne of Snelston by his wife Anne Montgomery ?
Thanks
Will Johnson
Derbyshire Record Office: Okeover of Okeover [D231M/T - D231M/M]
Okeover family of Okeover
Catalogue Ref. GB 0026 D231
Creator(s): Okeover family of Okeover, Derbyshire
Title Deeds - ref. D231M/T
Title deeds relating to the Derbyshire and Staffordshire Estates of the Okeover family
Staffordshire and Derbyshire Estates Combined
FILE [no title] - ref. D231M/T381 - date: 1455
[from Scope and Content] Quitclaim by John Browne of Snelston, clerk, to Thomas de Oker [Okeover] esq., of all his manors, lands, tenements, rents and services with appurtenances which he held jointly with Ralph Bassett, esq., deceased by gift and feoffment of Thomas de Oker in the counties of Staffordshire and Derbyshire
FILE [no title] - ref. D231M/T383 - date: 1457/1458
[from Scope and Content] Gift by Thomas Okover [Okeover], knight, to Philip Okover his kinsman and heir of all his lands and tenements, rents and service with appurtenances in the villein and territory of Mapulton [Mapleton] except for a messuage with appurtenances which William Laurenson lately held at will and a close called Haywodfeld: also a house with appurtenances in Assheburne [Ashbourne] which Robert Goldsmyth once held at will and a messuage in Snelston which John Browne, chaplain, holds at will and 10s rent in Atlowe [Atlow] received by John Okover his son from various tenements there, with all woods and underwoods in his demesnes of Okover, Atlowe and Snelston
ADRIANCH...@aol.com
Brownes of Snelston, Derbs - Summary
Thomas Browne of Snelston, Derbs m Margaret Chetham of Chetham, nr
Manchester left
(A) Rudolphus/Ralph Browne (-?1577)
(B) Nicholas Browne (-bur 18 Jan 1587) of Snelston m Ellanor (-28 Apr 1595)
d&h of Ralph Shirley of Shirley, Derbs and wdw (m 1545) of Thomas Vernon of
Clifton & Harleston, Derbs and left
(I) William Browne (Snelston 1558-1610 Low Countries) Lt gen of Flushing,
Low Countries and of Atherington, Sussex; knt (1603/4) m Mary Savage of
Germany, naturalized 1600 and left (i) William Browne (bap 10 Nov 1594->1604);
naturalized 1604 (ii) Anne Browne (->1604 young) naturalized 1604 (iii) Barbara
(-infant) naturalized 1604 (iv) Percy Browne (c1602-<1635) naturalized 1622
m dau of Col Nathaniel Rich(e) of Standon, Essex and left (1) Nathaniel
Browne of New England (Connecticut) m and left issue (2) Robert Browne (-1660
Burmuda als Somers Island) of Somers Island, ordained (3) Samuel Browne (4)
?William Browne of Providence Island (v) Mary Browne naturalized 1622
(II) Gertrude Browne
(C) Thomas Browne dsp
Main source: NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
The John Browne of the mint who m Anne Montgomery of Cubley (his m2), was
the son of William Browne (1467-Will 1514) Lord Mayor in 1513 by his m2 Alice
Kebyll. I think Pym Yeatman in his Brownes of Betchworth Castle tried to
connect this family to the above Brownes of Snelston, but I could not see that
he had proved a link, let alone how it worked.
Regards,
Adrian
In a message dated 29/05/2007 20:18:50 GMT Standard Time, wjho...@aol.com
writes:
WJhonson
Or should there be some kind of connection between these two, and if so what is it?
Thanks
Will Johnson
ADRIANCH...@aol.com
To answer your question with a question,
What evidence is there that William Browne, lord mayor of London in 1513 or
his son John Browne, master of the mint were ever of Snelston?
Adrian
In a message dated 30/05/2007 15:10:48 GMT Standard Time,
ravinma...@yahoo.com writes:
> So there were two separate families of Browne's at Snelston?
>
> Or should there be some kind of connection between these two, and if so
what is it?
Why would there necessarily be two separate families of Browne's (sic)
at Snelston?
[I didn't make a "resolution to shut up," of course; far from it. I
merely announced my decision to cease corresponding with a certain
disagreeable old fool whose initials approximate a monthly syndrome of
bloating, irritation, and mood swings.]
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WJhonson
see
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_frm/thread/82e829a1794df673/4cf9c63ab8086de2?lnk=gst&q=Browne+of+Snelston&rnum=1&hl=en#4cf9c63ab8086de2
citing "Derbyshire Gentry..." which itself cites PRO C 142/33/63
this thread calls him "John Browne of Snelston" exactly as stated
Adrian Channing then replies that this John Browne was "... a son of William Browne (1467-1514), mayor of London in 1513, by his second wife Alice Kebyll".
Will Johnson
Matthew Connolly
>
> (B) Nicholas Browne (-bur 18 Jan 1587) of Snelston m Ellanor (-28 Apr 1595)
> d&h of Ralph Shirley of Shirley, Derbs and wdw (m 1545) of Thomas Vernon of
> Clifton & Harleston, Derbs and left
>
A bit more on these people: Thomas Vernon (d.17 Jan 1556/7) was of
Houndhill (aka Houndshill) in Marchington, Staffs, which had been
purchased by his father Humphrey.
Harlaston, Staffs was held for life by Thomas's uncle Sir John Vernon
(d.9 Feb 1545/6, MI Clifton Campville). Sir John's wife was Ellen
Montgomery (sister of the Anne who maried John Browne), heiress of
Sudbury, Derbs, which is just across the river Dove -the county
border- from Marchington; these two Vernon branches were later
reunited in marriage.
Thomas and Eleanor Vernon had one son, Walter (male line ancestor of
the lords Vernon), who is mentioned in the will of his stepfather
Nicholas Browne; Walter had a sister Barbara Vernon, who appears in a
deed quoted by Pym Yeatman as contracted to marry George Allen of
Stanton. Probably another sister was Dorothy, daughter of Thomas
Vernon of "Howell", Staffs, wife of Job Throckmorton of Haseley, Warks
(1545-1601) who was implicated in the production of the 'Martin
Marprelate' puritan tracts.
Eleanor Shirley's father, Ralph Shirley, died 15 Jan 1535/6; his widow
Amy Lolle remarried to Ralph Sacheverell, as appears from this PRO
reference:
C1/1165/46: 1544 April 22 - 1547 Feb 15
Thomas VERNON of Houndhill, esquire, v. Amice, late the wife of Ralph
SECHEVERELL.: Money promised to complainant on his marriage with
Eleanor Schurley, daughter of defendant.: STAFFORD.
-Matthew
ADRIANCH...@aol.com
Mathew,
Thanks for the Vernon family details. By the way Burke's has Walter (son of
Thomas and Eleanor Vernon) b 1552; m as her 1st husband Mary Littleton and d
1592, leaving an only surv s:
Edward (Sir); b 1584; m 1613 his cousin Margaret Vernon and d 1657, leaving,
with seven daus, ...
One of these daughters was Dorothy Vernon who married Edmund Browne of
Hungary Bentley [per Pym Yeatman and also MI as given in John Edwin Cussans
History of Hertfordshire]
Edmund Browne was the son of Thomas Browne (-Will 1631 pr 1633) of
Shredicote, Staffs by Apolyne d of George Southwarke (widow of William Fairfax)
Thomas Browne was son of William Browne (-Will 1602 pr 1602) of Cookshill.
This William was probably the son of Ralf Browne of Yevely (possibly by Mary
d of William Whitehall of Bloxwith) and he is probably son of John Browne
(-1569) master of the mint by his m3 to Christian d of William Carleol or
Crokell of London.
So there is a connection between the Brownes of Snelston and the Lord mayor
Browne, but I fear not as close as that sought earlier in this thread.
Adrian
In a message dated 31/05/2007 13:20:47 GMT Standard Time,
Matthew Connolly
> Mathew,
>
> Thanks for the Vernon family details. By the way Burke's has Walter (son of
> Thomas and Eleanor Vernon) b 1552; m as her 1st husband Mary Littleton and d
> 1592, leaving an only surv s:
>
> Edward (Sir); b 1584; m 1613 his cousin Margaret Vernon and d 1657, leaving,
> with seven daus, ...
>
> One of these daughters was Dorothy Vernon who married Edmund Browne of
> Hungary Bentley [per Pym Yeatman and also MI as given in John Edwin Cussans
> History of Hertfordshire]
>
> Edmund Browne was the son of Thomas Browne (-Will 1631 pr 1633) of
> Shredicote, Staffs by Apolyne d of George Southwarke (widow of William Fairfax)
>
> Thomas Browne was son of William Browne (-Will 1602 pr 1602) of Cookshill.
> This William was probably the son of Ralf Browne of Yevely (possibly by Mary
> d of William Whitehall of Bloxwith) and he is probably son of John Browne
> (-1569) master of the mint by his m3 to Christian d of William Carleol or
> Crokell of London.
>
> So there is a connection between the Brownes of Snelston and the Lord mayor
> Browne, but I fear not as close as that sought earlier in this thread.
>
> Adrian
>
Thanks Adrian, I didn't know anything of Edmund Browne's ancestry; in
case it's of interest, the will of Col. Edward Vernon- one of Dorothy
Browne's brothers- contains several references to his nephew Rupert
Browne, including: "I give and devise unto my Nephew Rupert Browne the
sume of five shillings onely he haveing much disoblieged and dealt ill
with me"!
WJhonson
C1/1165/46: 1544 April 22 - 1547 Feb 15
Thomas VERNON of Houndhill, esquire, v. Amice, late the wife of Ralph
SECHEVERELL.: Money promised to complainant on his marriage with
Eleanor Schurley, daughter of defendant.: STAFFORD. >>
Query: That this Ralph Sacheverell who we can see must have died from this, sometime between 1536 and 1547 be identical to *that* Ralph Sacheverell who died 14 Aug 1539, son of Dominic Sacheverell, and also father of that Henry Sacheverell d 1558 who married Lucia Pole
And are thus ancestral to Thomas Hazard the Rhode Island immigrant?
Thanks
Will Johnson
ADRIANCH...@aol.com
Yes, Pym Yeatman mentions Rupert
"He [Edmund Browne and Dorothy Vernon] had twelve other sons [besides Thomas
of Bentley] and four daughters, of the fate of whom little is known.
Rupert, the 4th son, was of the prerogative office of the Archbishop of Canterbury.
He had five sons."
(p 81 of Brownes of Betchworth)
I wonder what Rupert did to upset Col Edward Vernon?
I must correct something I said before:
"William Browne (Snelston 1558-1610 Low Countries) Lt gen of Flushing, Low
Countries and of Atherington, Sussex; knt (1603/4)"
I'm now not so sure that William was also of Atherington, Sussex. I assumed
this parley from Shaw's Knights of England:
Knights Bachelors
1603-4, Mar. 14. William Brown, of Sussex, lieut, gov. of Flushing
(knighted at the Tower, by the King)
but I see that the details of Sir William Browne of Atherington, Chichester
etc does not agree with William Browne of Flushing. [It may be of
significance that on the same day, of the 50 or so knights created was Anthony Brown of
Essex [of Mersk manor] and a Nicholas Brown]
Regards,
Adrian
>>>>
In a message dated 31/05/2007 21:15:51 GMT Standard Time,
WJhonson
If so Rupert was baptised on 16 Jul 1644 (For baptism see www.familysearch.org - IGI - British Isles - Batch J055493)
Did Thomas Browne marry a woman named Grace ?
Thanks
Will Johnson
Matthew Connolly
> The children of Edmund Brown of Hungary Bentley, would they have been baptised at Longford ?
>
>
> Did Thomas Browne marry a woman named Grace ?
>
> Thanks
> Will Johnson
Adrian will know a lot more than I do, but I can at least confirm that
Longford was their church. And yes, Thomas Browne married Grace
Crofts- there's a sketched descent here (visible via proxy server):
http://books.google.com/books?id=eIsuAAAAMAAJ&q=hungry+bentley&dq=hungry+bentley&pgis=1
Don't know any more about your Sacheverell query I'm afraid.
WJhonson
I'll check the baptisms posted for Thomas and Grace to see if I can figure a birth range for Thomas. He does not appear in the extracted baptisms at Longford as far as I can see.
The ones who do, and have father Edward (mother never named) are
Edmund 14 Jun 1638
William 24 Oct 1639
Rupert 16 Jul 1644
George 2 Oct 1645
Phillip 27 May 1652
Richard 12 May 1656
So I've tenatively assigned a birthrange for Dorothy Vernon of 1608/24
and her husband Edmund Browne of Hungary Bentley of 1595/1620
based solely on the above baptisms.
Since Rupert lived to adulthood, and is called "fourth son" I'm assuming Thomas was probably third and the family was elsewhere in the time period 1640/3.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
Rupert Jr, married the daughter of Rupert Sr, his uncle.