Milne/Molyneux connection?

[Graham Milne]

I made quite an interesting discovery today. The arms of the Norman Molyneux
family, who became Earls of Sefton (Lancashire), are very similar to those
of the Milne family of Aberdeenshire, namely azure a cross moline or but
pierced of the field in the latter case. Does anyone know a). whether there
is any connection between the two families (i.e. is the Milne family
descended from the Molyneux family, b). did any members of the Molyneux
family settle in Scotland (particularly as companions of David, Earl of
Huntingdon, along with Balliol, Bruce, Stewart et al? It strikes me as an
extraordinary coincidence that the names should be so similar and the arms
virtually identical but perhaps it is just that. Many thanks for your help.

Rgds,

Graham Milne

[wes...@live.co.uk]

Hi Graham

This sounds very exciting, I have been researching the same thing after reading this: http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/m/milne2.html

My great, great, great Grandfather was John Milne, who was from Scotland (Edinborough).

Have you found any more info on the subject?

Kindest

Wesley Milne

[GEN-MEDIEVAL Administrator via]

On Monday, October 2, 2000 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Graham Milne wrote:
> It strikes me as an
> extraordinary coincidence that the names should be so similar and the arms
> virtually identical but perhaps it is just that. Many thanks for your
help.

I think you are right that coincidence is an unlikely explanation for the
dual similarity. However, descent is not the only alternative. It could
also be mimicry, with the Milne family adopting differenced Moleneux arms
due to the similarity in names, Like how the Spencers, though entirely
unrelated, adopted differenced Despencer arms.

[Peter Howarth]

Another explanation is that, for both Molyneux and Milne, they were both canting (i.e. punning) arms, since a cross moline was thought of as representing a mill-rind, the iron at the centre of a mill-stone.

Peter

[Graham Milne]

On Wednesday, 20 August 2014 06:01:55 UTC+1, Peter Howarth wrote:
> Another explanation is that, for both Molyneux and Milne, they were both canting (i.e. punning) arms, since a cross moline was thought of as representing a mill-rind, the iron at the centre of a mill-stone.
>
>
>
> Peter

A younger son of the Sefton family, Vivian de Molyneux, a knight or squire, accompanied Avice de Lancaster (d 1190), daughter of William de Lancaster, Baron of Kendal (d 1170), into Scotland on the occasion of her marriage to Richard de Morville (d 1189) in 1167, settling at Oxton, Lauderdale (Berwickshire) and then Saltoun, East Lothian ('The Anglo-Norman Era in Scottish History', Professor G W S Barrow, Clarendon Press, 1980); he probably occupied the castle or tower house at Saltoun then held by the de Morville family which is now Saltoun Hall. An Elizabeth de Molyn of Berwickshire, evidently a landowner, signed the Ragman Roll in 1296, so 'Molyn' may represent a transitional form of the name from Molyneux, through Molyn, to Milne. Vivian de Molyneux's descendants, of whom there appears otherwise to be no trace, may have moved North with the Gordons of Gordon, Berwickshire (about 10 miles from Oxton), of which clan the Milne family are a sept, following the Gordon acquisition of the Lordship of Strathbogie, Aberdeenshire, in the early 1300s (see HUNTLY M.).