CP Correction: Possible Identity of Laura, wife of Robert de Ros
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Hello All,
Under Ros of Wark, CP says of Robert de Ros, Lord Ros of Wark,
' He m. Laura ______ ,(a) and d.s.p.m. in or soon
after 1296.(b) ' [1]
As to the identity of Laura, note (a) simply states that she was
'Possibly a Scot', and proceeds to discuss details concerning their two daughters and
heirs (heiresses of their father, at least) [2].
The name Laura, or more usually Lora (or Loretta), is found in the ranks
of the nobility during this period. A noticeable number of individuals so
named belong to the descendants of Saier de Quincy, Earl of Winchester and surety
of the Magna Carta (aka 'Saier IV', who d. 1219) and his wife Margaret de
Beaumont:
1. Laura de Vere (daughter of their daughter Hawise, by Hugh
de Vere, Earl of Oxford), had the manor of Ketteringham,
Norfolk as her maritagium on her marriage to Reynold de
Argentein [3].
2. Loretta, daughter of Saier de Quincy and Margaret de
Beaumont, and wife of William de Valoins, of Panmure,
co. Forfar [4].
3. Lora de Valoins, daughter of Loretta de Quincy by William
de Valoins (one of their 3 daughters and coheiresses),
wife of Henry de Baliol, of Cavers, co. Roxburgh [5].
The use of this name (and its derivatives) is not exclusive to this
related group, but was certainly a well-used family name at this time. The fact
that the later two individuals, mother and daughter, were themselves Scots by
marriage and land-tenure (and possibly by birth) is striking. We further have
Alexander de Baliol of Cavers, son of Henry de Baliol and Lora de Valoins (#3
above) as both a landholder in England and Scotland, a supporter of Edward I's
cause against England in his later career, who married as her 2nd husband
Isabel de Chilham, widow of David, Earl of Athol and daughter of Richard de
Chilham [6].
It is further interesting to note that Isabel de Chilham had her own
Scots connections (she was daughter of Maud of Angus, Countess of Angus suo jure,
and half-sister of Gilbert d'Umfraville, Earl of Angus 1245-1307), and further
had an aunt Loretta (sister of Richard de Chilham, and wife of Sir William
Marmion of Tanfield, co. Yorks.).
The foregoing affiliations provide a strong possibility that Laura, wife
of Robert de Ros, was a daughter of Alexander de Baliol by his wife Isabel de
Chilham. The foregoing provides onomastic support as well, both for the
source of Laura's name, and for that of her second daughter Isabel (although this
was hardly an uncommon name). The chronology also supports this as a
possibility, given that Alexander de Baliol and Isabel de Chilham were married 'about
1270, after 7 Nov. 1270' [7] and that the issue of Robert de Ros and his wife
Laura were born ca. 1292 and 1295 [8]. This identification would yield the
following:
William de Valoins = LORETTA de Quincy
d. 1219 I _________________
I I I
Henry de Baliol = LORA de Valoins Richard de LORETTA
I Chilham = William
I _____________I Marmion
I I
2) Alexander de = ISABEL = 1) David
Baliol I de Chilham I Earl of Athol
_______________________I _ _ _ _ I__________
I I i I
Thomas Alexander LAURA John
de Baliol de Baliol = Robert de de Strathbogie
d. aft 1312/3 Ros I
___________I__ _______I________
I I I I I
Margaret ISABEL David ISABEL John
b.ca.1292 b.ca.1295
The foregoing is again a conjecture. Should anyone have documentation
proving (or disproving) the above, it would be greatly appreciated.
Meanwhile, good luck and good hunting to all. And, watch out for that
hurricane (not an enjoyable Isabel to discuss).
John *
NOTES
[1] CP XI:122, sub Ros of Wark. See discussion of the identity
of the daughters of Robert de Ros and Laura, and their heirs
of the Salvayn family (established) and the Crichtons of
Sanquhar (conjectured).
[2] Ibid., note (a):
' Possibly a Scot; both her daughters were b. in
Scotland (Rolls of Parl., vol. i, p. 183). The
elder, Margaret (aet. 15 in 1307, Cal. Inq. p. m.
vol. iv, no. 427) m. John Salveyn (see Surtees'
Durham, vol. iv, City of Durham, p. 118); the
younger Isabel (aet. 12) m. John de Knockes (Cal.
Chancery Warrants, 1244-1326, pp. 321, 370).
In 1367 Gerard Salveyn, kinsman and h. of Margaret,
obtained an exemplification of letters patent,
said to have been dated at Clipstone, 6 Nov. 1312,
(not enrolled), pardoning to her her father's
forfeitures for adhering to the Scots, under
Edward I's promise to John Comyn and his men (Cal.
Patent Rolls, 1364-67, p. 41). Edward II was not at
Clipstone, 6 Nov. 1312. '
[3] Chris Phillips, <Re: The Mortimer-Wales connection: The
issue of maritagiums>, SGM, Nov 7, 2001. Chris cites
sources including Complete Peerage x 215, note h) and
Blomefield (History of Norfolk v 89). The post in
question is not strictly concerning Laura de Vere.
[4] Sanders, English Baronies, p. 12.
[5] Ibid., pp. 12-13.
[6] CP I:386-7, sub Balliol or Baliol (of Cavers). CP
incorrectly identifies Richard de Chilham, father of Isabel,
as 'Richard Fitz Roy', illegitimate son of King John of
England: in fact, he was the son of this Richard fitz Roy,
and grandson of King John (Isabel was therefore great-
granddaughter of King John). See SGM posts, esp. those
concerning John de Strathbogie, Earl of Athol (exe. 1306)
and Isabel's son and heir by her first marriage.
[7] Ibid., p. 387.
[8] See note [2] above.