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C.P. Addition: Maud de Verdun, wife of Sir John de Grey (died 1323), 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton
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celticp...@gmail.com
Oct 6, 2019, 3:37:53 PM10/6/19
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Dear Newsgroup ~
Back in 2002, I identified Maud, wife of Sir John de Grey (died 1323), 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton, as the daughter of Sir John de Verdun (died 1274), of Alton, Staffordshire, hereditary Constable of Ireland, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun. I made that identification based on several pieces of evidence.
Maud’s mother, Eleanor, wife of John de Verdun, is known to have been a Bohun, as her seal displayed the arms of that family [see Wedgwood, Staffordshire Coats of Arms (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1913) (1913): 298]. In her widowhood, Eleanor de Verdun settled lands in Debden, Essex on Maud and her husband, John de Grey, and the heirs of Maud. This property was evidently intended as Maud’s maritagium. At this time period, Debden was a Bohun manor. This property had previously served as part of Eleanor’s own maritagium (see Hagger, Fortunes of a Norman Family (2001): 212). That Maud was the mother of John de Grey’s sons, Henry and Roger, is indicated by the fact that following John de Grey’s death in 1323, his sons fought over property rights in Debden, Essex [see Index of Placita de Banco 1327–1328 1 (PRO Lists and Indexes 32) (1910): 143]. In later years, two of Maud de Grey’s grandchildren intermarried with the members of Bohun family. Due to the closeness of kinship, dispensations had to be obtained in both cases to allow the marriages to stand [see Papal Regs.: Letters 2 (1895): 349, 380, 398]. The degrees of kinship stated in the dispensations indicate that Maud de Grey’s mother, Eleanor de Bohun, was the daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex (died 1275).
Since 2002, I've been looking for further evidence to support my identification of Maud, wife of Sir John de Grey, as the daughter of Sir John de Verdun and his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun. Recently I unexpectedly encountered a Common Pleas lawsuit which conclusively proves the connection. An abstract of the lawsuit is presented below.
In 1291 John de Grey and Maud his wife and Walter de Lacy and Rose his wife sued Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding 90 acres of land in Debden, Essex, which Maud and Rose claimed in right of their inheritance as heirs of Humphrey de Verdun their brother.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/91, image 808d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no91/bCP40no91dorses/IMG_0808.htm).
Maud de Grey and Rose de Lacy are identified in the lawsuit as the heirs of Humphrey de Verdun their brother. Humphrey de Verdun (born 1267, died 1285) is known to have been the son of Sir John de Verdun (died 1274), by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun. Surprisingly, this lawsuit reveals another hitherto unknown full sister for Humphrey de Verdun, namely Rose, wife of Walter de Lacy. Rose is entirely new to the Verdun family tree.
The lawsuit mentions dealings which Humphrey de Verdun had with Humphrey de Bohun regarding lands in Debden, Essex and Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire. I've copied two items below from the online Discovery catalogue which involve an agreement which Humphrey de Verdun had with Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex, regarding the manors of Debden, Essex and Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire. Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire mentioned in the lawsuit above and the first document below was previously held by Eleanor de Bohun's brother, Henry de Bohun, who died c.1281. See my book, Royal Ancestry, 5 volume set, published in 1213, for further details.
For interest's sake, below is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Maud de Verdun and her husband, Sir John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton.
Robert Abell, William Asfordby, Christopher Batt, Dorothy Beresford, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George & Robert Brent, Charles Calvert, Jeremy Clarke, Matthew Clarkson, St. Leger Codd, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, William Farrer, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Nathaniel Littleton, Percival Lowell, Simon Lynde, Anne, Elizabeth, & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Richard Parker, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Edward Raynsford, George Reade, William Rodney, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Samuel & William Torrey, Olive Welby, John West, George Yate.
Do you descend from Maud de Verdun and Sir John de Grey? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
Douglas Richardson, Author, Historian, & Genealogist
+ + + + + + +
Reference: DL 25/1471
Description:
Humphrey de Verdun to Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex: Grant of the manor of Debden, in fee, in exchange for the manor of Nuthampstead (Nothamstede): (Essex), (Herts).
Seal(s) described at item level
Note: Date derived from catalogue description for attached seal(s)
Date: [1234-1300]
+ + + + + + +
Reference: DL 25/1471/1177
Description:
Name: Humfrey Verdun (de Verdun)
Places: Property in Debden, Essex / Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire.
Seal Design: Design: man holding a hawk on the left hand mounted on a horse galloping to left with a hound walking to left below, Size: 26 mm, Shape: round, Colour: orange, Legend: *S'HVMF|RIDI DE|VERDOVN, Personal.
Material: Wax.
Attachment: On tag.
Seal Note: Mid x late 13th century. Impression: clear. Condition: complete.
Note: These seals are reproduced by kind permission of the Chancellor and Council of the Duchy of Lancaster
Date: 1234 Jan 1 - 1300 Dec 31
Back in 2002, I identified Maud, wife of Sir John de Grey (died 1323), 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton, as the daughter of Sir John de Verdun (died 1274), of Alton, Staffordshire, hereditary Constable of Ireland, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun. I made that identification based on several pieces of evidence.
Maud’s mother, Eleanor, wife of John de Verdun, is known to have been a Bohun, as her seal displayed the arms of that family [see Wedgwood, Staffordshire Coats of Arms (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1913) (1913): 298]. In her widowhood, Eleanor de Verdun settled lands in Debden, Essex on Maud and her husband, John de Grey, and the heirs of Maud. This property was evidently intended as Maud’s maritagium. At this time period, Debden was a Bohun manor. This property had previously served as part of Eleanor’s own maritagium (see Hagger, Fortunes of a Norman Family (2001): 212). That Maud was the mother of John de Grey’s sons, Henry and Roger, is indicated by the fact that following John de Grey’s death in 1323, his sons fought over property rights in Debden, Essex [see Index of Placita de Banco 1327–1328 1 (PRO Lists and Indexes 32) (1910): 143]. In later years, two of Maud de Grey’s grandchildren intermarried with the members of Bohun family. Due to the closeness of kinship, dispensations had to be obtained in both cases to allow the marriages to stand [see Papal Regs.: Letters 2 (1895): 349, 380, 398]. The degrees of kinship stated in the dispensations indicate that Maud de Grey’s mother, Eleanor de Bohun, was the daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex (died 1275).
Since 2002, I've been looking for further evidence to support my identification of Maud, wife of Sir John de Grey, as the daughter of Sir John de Verdun and his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun. Recently I unexpectedly encountered a Common Pleas lawsuit which conclusively proves the connection. An abstract of the lawsuit is presented below.
In 1291 John de Grey and Maud his wife and Walter de Lacy and Rose his wife sued Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding 90 acres of land in Debden, Essex, which Maud and Rose claimed in right of their inheritance as heirs of Humphrey de Verdun their brother.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/91, image 808d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no91/bCP40no91dorses/IMG_0808.htm).
Maud de Grey and Rose de Lacy are identified in the lawsuit as the heirs of Humphrey de Verdun their brother. Humphrey de Verdun (born 1267, died 1285) is known to have been the son of Sir John de Verdun (died 1274), by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun. Surprisingly, this lawsuit reveals another hitherto unknown full sister for Humphrey de Verdun, namely Rose, wife of Walter de Lacy. Rose is entirely new to the Verdun family tree.
The lawsuit mentions dealings which Humphrey de Verdun had with Humphrey de Bohun regarding lands in Debden, Essex and Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire. I've copied two items below from the online Discovery catalogue which involve an agreement which Humphrey de Verdun had with Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex, regarding the manors of Debden, Essex and Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire. Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire mentioned in the lawsuit above and the first document below was previously held by Eleanor de Bohun's brother, Henry de Bohun, who died c.1281. See my book, Royal Ancestry, 5 volume set, published in 1213, for further details.
For interest's sake, below is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Maud de Verdun and her husband, Sir John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton.
Robert Abell, William Asfordby, Christopher Batt, Dorothy Beresford, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George & Robert Brent, Charles Calvert, Jeremy Clarke, Matthew Clarkson, St. Leger Codd, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, William Farrer, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Nathaniel Littleton, Percival Lowell, Simon Lynde, Anne, Elizabeth, & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Richard Parker, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Edward Raynsford, George Reade, William Rodney, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Samuel & William Torrey, Olive Welby, John West, George Yate.
Do you descend from Maud de Verdun and Sir John de Grey? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
Douglas Richardson, Author, Historian, & Genealogist
+ + + + + + +
Reference: DL 25/1471
Description:
Humphrey de Verdun to Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex: Grant of the manor of Debden, in fee, in exchange for the manor of Nuthampstead (Nothamstede): (Essex), (Herts).
Seal(s) described at item level
Note: Date derived from catalogue description for attached seal(s)
Date: [1234-1300]
+ + + + + + +
Reference: DL 25/1471/1177
Description:
Name: Humfrey Verdun (de Verdun)
Places: Property in Debden, Essex / Nuthampstead, Hertfordshire.
Seal Design: Design: man holding a hawk on the left hand mounted on a horse galloping to left with a hound walking to left below, Size: 26 mm, Shape: round, Colour: orange, Legend: *S'HVMF|RIDI DE|VERDOVN, Personal.
Material: Wax.
Attachment: On tag.
Seal Note: Mid x late 13th century. Impression: clear. Condition: complete.
Note: These seals are reproduced by kind permission of the Chancellor and Council of the Duchy of Lancaster
Date: 1234 Jan 1 - 1300 Dec 31
Bronwen Edwards
Oct 6, 2019, 6:56:37 PM10/6/19
to
This time I'm posting my step-father's line, not mine, from:
John de Grey & Maud de Verdun
Roger de Grey & Elizabeth Hastings
Reginald de Grey & Eleanor Le Strange
Reginald de Grey & Joan Astley
Sir Edward Grey & Elizabeth Ferrers
Sir John Grey & Elizabeth Wydville
Sir Thomas Grey & Cecily Bonville
Sir Thomas Grey & Margaret Wotton
John Grey & Mary Browne
Jane/Elizabeth Grey & Sir Edward Greville
Frances Greville (emig. to North America) & Samuel Mathews
Samuel Mathews (emig. to North America - Gov. of Virginia) & ?
John Mathews & Elizabeth Tavenor
Elizabeth Mathews & James Holloway
John Holloway & Hannah Spiers
James Holloway & Judith
Ashby "Sally" Holloway & Samuel Durham
James Durham & Martha Compton
James Holloway Durham & Elizabeth Miller
Mary Ellen Durham & James Francis Bell (migrated to California)
Minnie Bell & Frank Lee Evans
Pauline Evans & Frank William Edwards
Richard Franklin Edwards, my step-father
I know there are several connections here that may be unproven during the time of emigration or thereabouts, but this is what I have found so far.
Bronwen Edwards
John de Grey & Maud de Verdun
Roger de Grey & Elizabeth Hastings
Reginald de Grey & Eleanor Le Strange
Reginald de Grey & Joan Astley
Sir Edward Grey & Elizabeth Ferrers
Sir John Grey & Elizabeth Wydville
Sir Thomas Grey & Cecily Bonville
Sir Thomas Grey & Margaret Wotton
John Grey & Mary Browne
Jane/Elizabeth Grey & Sir Edward Greville
Frances Greville (emig. to North America) & Samuel Mathews
Samuel Mathews (emig. to North America - Gov. of Virginia) & ?
John Mathews & Elizabeth Tavenor
Elizabeth Mathews & James Holloway
John Holloway & Hannah Spiers
James Holloway & Judith
Ashby "Sally" Holloway & Samuel Durham
James Durham & Martha Compton
James Holloway Durham & Elizabeth Miller
Mary Ellen Durham & James Francis Bell (migrated to California)
Minnie Bell & Frank Lee Evans
Pauline Evans & Frank William Edwards
Richard Franklin Edwards, my step-father
I know there are several connections here that may be unproven during the time of emigration or thereabouts, but this is what I have found so far.
Bronwen Edwards
joe...@gmail.com
Oct 6, 2019, 7:05:00 PM10/6/19
to
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 3:37:53 PM UTC-4, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
> Do you descend from Maud de Verdun and Sir John de Grey? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
Sir John de Grey + Maud de Vernon
-Maud de Grey m. John de Moels (c.1269-1310)
-John de Moels (c.1304-1337) m. Joan Lovel
-Muriel de Moels (c.1322-1369) m. Thomas de Courtenay (bef.1315-1356)
-Margaret Courtenay (?-1422) m. Thomas Peverell (?-1402 or 1403)
-Katherine Peverell (c.1394-between 1432-1438) m. Walter Hungerford (1378-1449)
-Elizabeth Hungerford (?-1476) m. Philip Coutenay (1403/4-1463)
-Elizabeth Courtenay (?-1493) m. James Luttrell (c.1427-1460/1)
-Hugh Luttrell (?-1520/1) m. Margaret Hill
-Eleanor Luttrell (?-aft 1547) m. Roger Yorke (?-1534/5)
-Elizabeth Yorke (?-1601) m. Edmund Percival (c.1506-1551)
-Christian Percival (?-Aft 1590) m. Richard Lowle (?-1577)
-Percival Lowle (1571-1664/5) m. Rebecca ? (1575-1644/5)
-Richard Lowle (1601/2-1682) m. Margaret ? (c.1604-1682)
-Rebeckah Lowle (1641/2-1662) m. John Hale (1635-1707)
-John Hale (1661-1725/6) m. Sarah Jacques (1663/4-1725/6)
-Rebecca Hale (1683/4-1760) m. Jonathan Poore (1677/8-1742)
-Mary Poore (1706-aft 1733) m. Benjamin Pierce (1700-1765)
The line from Benjamin Pierce down to me has been proven with DNA
--JoeCook
> Dear Newsgroup ~
> Do you descend from Maud de Verdun and Sir John de Grey? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
-Maud de Grey m. John de Moels (c.1269-1310)
-John de Moels (c.1304-1337) m. Joan Lovel
-Muriel de Moels (c.1322-1369) m. Thomas de Courtenay (bef.1315-1356)
-Margaret Courtenay (?-1422) m. Thomas Peverell (?-1402 or 1403)
-Katherine Peverell (c.1394-between 1432-1438) m. Walter Hungerford (1378-1449)
-Elizabeth Hungerford (?-1476) m. Philip Coutenay (1403/4-1463)
-Elizabeth Courtenay (?-1493) m. James Luttrell (c.1427-1460/1)
-Hugh Luttrell (?-1520/1) m. Margaret Hill
-Eleanor Luttrell (?-aft 1547) m. Roger Yorke (?-1534/5)
-Elizabeth Yorke (?-1601) m. Edmund Percival (c.1506-1551)
-Christian Percival (?-Aft 1590) m. Richard Lowle (?-1577)
-Percival Lowle (1571-1664/5) m. Rebecca ? (1575-1644/5)
-Richard Lowle (1601/2-1682) m. Margaret ? (c.1604-1682)
-Rebeckah Lowle (1641/2-1662) m. John Hale (1635-1707)
-John Hale (1661-1725/6) m. Sarah Jacques (1663/4-1725/6)
-Rebecca Hale (1683/4-1760) m. Jonathan Poore (1677/8-1742)
-Mary Poore (1706-aft 1733) m. Benjamin Pierce (1700-1765)
The line from Benjamin Pierce down to me has been proven with DNA
--JoeCook
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