Royal Descents for Sir Laurence Olivier, 1907-1989.

[leslie...@gmail.com]

The ancestry of Gerard Kerr Olivier, father of the famous actor
Sir Laurence Olivier, is recorded in Bernard Burke,
A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of
Great Britain, vol. 2.

Gerard was one of the children of Henry Arnold Olivier,
rector of Poulshot, Wiltshire:

https://books.google.com/books?id=yr48fD1QbMEC&pg=PA1202&lpg=PA1202&dq=Rev.+Henry+Arnold+Olivier,+Rector+of+Poulshot,&source=bl&ots=SsIWWQfTVI&sig=ACfU3U1l7FuPKK22y24rFHGTrNEuBG5AXQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP2v-1nPngAhUJrZ4KHZaaBDcQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Rev.%20Henry%20Arnold%20Olivier%2C%20Rector%20of%20Poulshot%2C&f=false

The Olivier ancestral line is also included in the Genealogics
database:

http://genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00283676&tree=LEO


The pedigree of Sir Laurence Olivier's great-grandmother,
Margaret Harriet Arnold,
was recorded in John Hutchins, The History and Antiquities of the County
of Dorset, vol. 1, based on information given by Margaret Harriet's father,
Henry Arnold, D.D:

https://archive.org/details/b30456496_0001/page/488

Margaret Harriet's great-grandmother was recorded as Susan, daughter and
co-heir of Edmund Hull of Tolpiddle, esquire.


Notes and Queries for Somerset and Dorset, vol. 11 (1909)
states that Susan was a daughter of Edmund Hull from his marriage
to Margaret Fulford, daughter of Francis Fulford, knight:

https://archive.org/details/notesqueriesfors11brid/page/14


The will of Francis Fulford of Fulford, Devon, proved in 1664,
mentions daughter Margaret, but only names her children Edmund & Elizabeth:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D805627


Edmund Hull left a will proved in 1661;
his wife and children were not named.
Three of the executors were Francis Fulford, knight,
George Fulford, esquire,
and his brother Humphrey Hull, gent:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D838946


The will of Humphrey Hull of Dorchester gent, proved in 1700, named as executors
his friends and nephews William Hull of "Topidle" esquire,
Francis Hull of the same place, esquire,
and Henry Arnold of Ilsington, gent:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D641024


Francis and William Hull, both left adminstrations, not wills:

https://books.google.com/books?id=rD42AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA12&dq=hull+francis+tolpuddle+1719&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGrqCypfngAhWR4J4KHbx1Bg0Q6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=hull%20francis%20tolpuddle%201719&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=G8bWaWdJZ0AC&pg=PA145&dq=hull+william+tolpuddle+1709&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj9lI3xpfngAhWDhJ4KHRAwCSIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=hull%20william%20tolpuddle%201709&f=false


A record in the Dorset History Centre, dated 26 March 1726,
states that one of the sisters of Francis Hull, esquire, was
Susan, mother of Henry Arnold of Ilsington:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hull-5824


The parish registers for Tolpuddle had previously survived from the
year 1651 forward:

https://archive.org/details/b30456496_0001/page/498

The surviving registers now commence in 1710 (with bishop transcripts
starting even later):

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Tolpuddle,_Dorset_Genealogy


Through Francis Fulford's great-grandmother, Dorothy Bourchier,
there is at least one descent from King Edward III, as well as other descents from King Edward I.

http://genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00479408&tree=LEO


Leslie

[ravinma...@yahoo.com]

Interesting ...

I wonder if Edmund Hull could be a child of the two parties in this 1615 marriage license: Mr. William Tull, son of George Hull of "Tol Piddle," and Catherine Ludlow, daughter of Sir Edmund Ludlow of Maiden Bradley?

https://books.google.com/books?id=9iY9AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA52&dq=tolpiddle+edmund+hull&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIhvegnfvgAhUkVt8KHUTuApQQ6AEIODAC#v=onepage&q=tolpiddle%20edmund%20hull&f=false

[ravinma...@yahoo.com]

Geni seems to claim this is correct:

https://www.geni.com/people/Edmund-Hull-Esquire/6000000027944692201

[Brad Verity]

On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 4:42:38 PM UTC-7, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Geni seems to claim this is correct:
> https://www.geni.com/people/Edmund-Hull-Esquire/6000000027944692201

Thank you to Leslie for earlier today bringing my attention to this post, and his excellent research into the families of Arnold of Ilsington Manor, Hull of Tolpiddle, and Fulford of Great Fulford House, which confirms two Edward III descents for Sir Laurence Olivier.

Edmund Hull of Tolpuddle married 2 February 1640/1 St Mary Church, Winterborne Whitechurch, Dorset, Margaret Fulford (bap. 22 July 1618 St Mary Church, Winterborne Whitechurch), yst dau of Sir Francis Fulford of Great Fulford House (1583-1664, descended from Edward III) & Elizabeth Samways (b. 1585).

I think John Brandon's suggestion that Edmund Hull of Tolpiddle (c.1620-1661), husband of Margaret Fulford, was the son of the William Hull (b. c.1593) and Catherine Ludlow (b. c.1597) who married (licence 23 October) 1615, is spot on.

On 20 April 1638, "Edmund Hull, son and heir of William H., Esq., of Tolepuddle, Dorset" was admitted to Gray's Inn:
https://archive.org/details/registerofadmiss00gray/page/217/mode/2up?q=Hull

Previously on 20 May 1636, "Edmond Hull, s. of William, of Tolpuddle, Dorset, arm." matriculated at Trinity College Oxford "aged 16". On 10 November 1637, his brother, "George Hull, s. of William, of Tolpuddle, Dorset, arm." matriculated at Magdalen College Oxford, "aged 15":
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/alumni-oxon/1500-1714/pp748-784

It works well chronologically for **Edmund** Hull (born c.1620) and his younger brother **George** Hull (b. c.1622) to have been the sons of the William Hull, son of "Mr. **George** Hull, of Tol Piddle, Dorset" and the Catherine Ludlow, dau of "Sir **Edmund** Ludlow, of Maidenbradley, Wilts" who were married in 1615. Each brother being named for a grandfather.

Sir Edmund Ludlow (by 1548-1624) has an entry in HOP. He is descended from Edward I thru his mother Edith (Windsor) Ludlow:
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/ludlow-sir-edmund-1542-1624

Sir Edmund's son-in-law, William Hull of Tolpiddle (b. c.1593), was the nephew of the famous explorer Sir Walter Raleigh (1554-1618).

John Hutchins, in his 'History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset' (1774) wrote (p. 497, sub Tolpiddle), "In Mr. Coker's time, it [Tolpiddle] belonged to one of the family of Hull, who removed here from Larkbere, in Devonshire, where his ancestors had long continued. In the Visitation Book of Devonshire, about 1560, there are four descents of this family given, before they had any concern here. George Hull, esq. of the board of green cloth, purchased this manor and demesnes of ..... Jacob":
https://archive.org/details/b30456496_0001/page/497/mode/2up

Lt-Col. John Vivian has a pedigree for 'Hull of Larkbeare' in his 'The Visitations of the County of Devon' (p. 492), in which "George Hull, 2 son [of Matthew Hull of Larkbeare House in Exeter (b. c.1524) & Joan Yarde], sold Larkbeare to Sir Nicholas Smith = Margaret, da. Walter Raleigh of Fardel and widow of Lawrence Radford. A quo Hull of Dorsetshire, now extinct":
https://books.google.com/books?id=GmqlIibS95IC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Lawrence Radford of Mount Radford, the first husband of Margaret Raleigh, died in 1590. William Hull, son of George Hull of Tolpiddle (and formerly of Larkbeare), was age "22" in his marriage licence of October 1615. He was likely the "William Hull of Dorset, arm." who matriculated at Oriel College Oxford 7 December 1610 "aged 16". So born about 1593/4, which fits very well for his mother to have been Margaret (Raleigh) (Radford) Hull, dau of Walter Raleigh of Fardel (1505-1581, descended from Edward I) & Katherine Champernowne (c.1514-1594, descended from Edward I).

In addition to being descended from Edward III, it seems that Sir Laurence Olivier was the 9x-great-nephew of Sir Walter Raleigh.

Cheers, -----Brad

[Charlene]

It's good to see Sir Laurence Olivier's royal line's been checked and confirmed.

I researched and added his royal line's to Geni back in 2015. Between 2017 and 2019, I also connected up his royal lines on Wikitree with documentation.

It was an expansion of the excellent research of Ronald Ames Hill. We share Hill ancestors. Ronald is a Fellow of the National Genealogical Society.
https://fasg.org/fellows/current-fellows/ronald-ames-hill/

He researched his line from the Fulford's and traced collateral line's down several generations in his book The tumultuous Achym/Fulford relationship: with abstracts of Chancery Court proceedings, and transcripts of Chancery decrees and orders, published in 2003. It's available for free at FamilySearch.

[Charlene]

> He researched his line from the Fulford's and traced collateral line's down several generations in his book The tumultuous Achym/Fulford relationship: with abstracts of Chancery Court proceedings, and transcripts of Chancery decrees and orders, published in 2003. It's available for free at FamilySearch.

Correction. It was this book where Ronald Ames Hill traces his descent from the Fulford's:

The Ancestors and Descendants of Christopher Hill, Rector of Michaelstow, The Hill migration: Surrey, London, Cornwall, Ontario, and Michigan, 1540–1900 (Chaghill Publications, Star, Idaho, 2006).

The two books together give many Edward III descents.

[Brad Verity]

On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 8:07:31 PM UTC-8, Charlene wrote:
> It's good to see Sir Laurence Olivier's royal line's been checked and confirmed.
> I researched and added his royal line's to Geni back in 2015. Between 2017 and 2019, I also connected up his royal lines on Wikitree with documentation.

Dear Charlene,

It's nice to meet you. Thank you for putting Olivier's ancestry online in Geni and Wikitree. It is very useful.

> It was an expansion of the excellent research of Ronald Ames Hill. We share Hill ancestors. Ronald is a Fellow of the National Genealogical Society.
> https://fasg.org/fellows/current-fellows/ronald-ames-hill/
>

> He researched his line from the Fulford's and traced collateral line's down several generations in his book The tumultuous Achym/Fulford relationship: with abstracts of Chancery Court proceedings, and transcripts of Chancery decrees and orders, published in 2003. It's available for free at FamilySearch.

I appreciate learning the source behind the research on the Fulford portion of the Olivier ancestry. I hadn't known of Ronald Ames Hill. I've downloaded his book which you linked - it's impressive and very well-researched.

I've finished entering Lord Olivier into my database. I don't have any new lines back to Edward I to add to the ones that you and Leslie Mahler have worked out. I can add a few more details and dates.

Edward III had a yst son:
1) Thomas of Woodstock, 1st Duke of Gloucester (1355-1397), who had
2) Anne, 3rd Countess of Buckingham (1383-1438), who had
3) William Bourchier, 9th Lord FitzWarin (c.1409-1469), who had
4) Fulk Bourchier, 10th Lord FitzWarin (1445-1479), who had
5) John Bourchier, 1st Earl of Bath (1470-1539), who had
6) Lady Dorothy Bourchier m. Sir John Fulford of Great Fulford House (c.1502-1544), and had
7) Sir John Fulford of Great Fulford House (1524-1580) m. 1) Anne Denys, and had
8) Sir Thomas Fulford of Great Fulford House (1553-1610) m. Ursula Bampfylde (d. 1639, descended from Edward III), and had
9) Sir Francis Fulford of Great Fulford House (1583-1664) m. Elizabeth Samways, and had
10) Margaret Fulford (1618-aft.1664) m. Edmund Hull of Tolpuddle (c.1620-1661, descended from Edward I), and had
11) SUSAN HULL, b. c.1656 (assuming aged about 20 at her marriage); bur. 27 Aug. 1706 St Mary Church, Puddletown, Dorset; m. 1686 St John Church, Tolpuddle, Henry Arnold of Ilsington Manor, Puddletown (b. c.1654; bur. 11 Aug. 1712 St Mary Church, Puddletown), son of Henry Arnold of Ilsington Manor (1634-1685) & Edith Gillett (d. 1671), and had
12) HENRY ARNOLD of Ilsington Manor, bap. 26 Dec. 1692 St Mary Church, Puddletown; d. 7 Mar. 1723 Ilsington Manor, bur. 8 Mar. 1723 St Mary Church, Puddletown; m. by 1720, Margaret Taylor (d. May 1774 Wells, Somersetshire, bur. 9 May 1774 St Mary Church, Puddletown), dau of Rev. John Taylor, Rector of Charlynch, Somersetshire 1689-1737 (c.1662-1737) & ---, and had
13) Rev. HENRY ARNOLD, Canon of Wells Cathedral, bap. 25 Nov. 1721 St Mary Church, Puddletown; d. 7 Sept. 1778, bur. 10 Sept. 1778 St Mary Church, Puddletown; m. 25 Mar. 1751 St Andrew Church, Chippenham, Wiltshire, his first cousin, Anne Awdry (bap. 29 Nov. 1722 St Andrew Church, Chippenham; bur. 3 Mar. 1779 St Mary Church, Puddletown), dau. of Ambrose Awdry of Chippenham (1693-1729) & Anne Taylor (d. 1750, sister of Margaret Taylor above), and had
14) MARGARET HARRIET ARNOLD, b. 18 Feb. 1764 Wells, Somersetshire, bap. 27 Apr. 1764 Wells Cathedral; d. 20 Apr. 1816 Clifton, Bedfordshire, bur. 26 Apr. 1816 All Saints Church, Clifton); m. 30 Mar. 1786 St Andrew Church, Chippenham, as his 1st wife, Rev. Daniel Stephen Olivier, Rector of Clifton 1790-1821 (b. 16 June 1755, bap. 15 July 1755 St Botolph Bishopsgate, London; d. 28 Dec. 1826 Clifton, Bedfordshire, bur. 10 Jan. 1827 All Saints Church, Clifton), son of Daniel Josias Olivier of St Botolph Bishopsgate, investment banker (1722-1782) & Susanna Massé (1725-1803), and had
15) Lt-Col. HENRY STEPHEN OLIVIER of Potterne Manor House, Wiltshire, b. 14 Aug. 1796 Clifton, Bedfordshire*; d. 21 Feb. 1864 Torquay, Devon, bur. 26 Feb. 1864 St Mary Church, Bathwick, Somersetshire; m. 11 Dec. 1823 St Swithun Church, Bathford, Somersetshire, Mary Milligan Dacres (b. 29 July 1795 Totnes, Devon, bap. 3 May 1801 St Mary Church, Totnes; d. 14 Feb. 1858 The Circus, Bath, bur. 19 Feb. 1858 St Mary Church, Bathwick), dau of Sir Richard Dacres of Bailbrook Villa, Swainswick, Somersetshire, Vice-Admiral Royal Navy 1830-37 (1761-1837) & Martha Phillips Milligan (c.1767-1840), and had
16) Rev. HENRY ARNOLD OLIVIER, Rector of Poulshot, Wiltshire 1874-83, bap. 18 Feb. 1826 Devonport, Devon, bap. 4 Apr. 1826 St Andrew with St Luke Church, Stoke Damerel, Devon; d. 14 Dec. 1912 Shapley Hill, Winchfield, Hampshire; m. 15 Jan. 1850 St Mary Church, Cholsey, Bedfordshire, Anne Elizabeth Hardcastle Arnould (b. 21 Sept. 1827 Camberwell, Surrey, bap. privately 21 Dec. 1827; d. 3 Oct. 1912 Shapley Hill, Winchfield, bur. St Mary Churchyard, Winchfield), dau of Dr. Joseph Arnould of Whitecross, Berkshire, physician (c.1787-1859) & Elizabeth Hardcastle (1788-1827), and had
17) Rev. GERARD KERR OLIVIER, Rector of Addington, Buckinghamshire 1924-30, b. 30 Apr. 1869 Frensham, Surrey, bap. 30 May 1869 St Mary Church, Frensham; d. 30 Mar. 1939 West Worthing, Sussex, bur. 3 Apr. 1939 St Mary Churchyard, Addington); m. 30 Apr. 1898 St James Church, Kidbrooke, Kent, Agnes Louise Crookenden (b. 1 Dec. 1871 Blackheath, Kent; d. 27 Mar. 1920 Letchworth, Hertfordshire, bur. 31 Mar. 1920 Christ Church, Crookham, Surrey), dau of Isaac Adolphus Crookenden of Marlborough House, Blackheath, secretary & auditor (1830-1907) & Jane Sophia Mitton (1833-1904), and had
18) LAURENCE KERR OLIVIER, Baron Olivier of Brighton 1970-1989**, actor & director, b. 22 May 1907 26 Wathen Road, Dorking, Surrey, bap. 9 July 1907 St Martin Church, Dorking; d. 11 July 1989 The Malthouse, Ashurst, Sussex, cremated, ashes bur. spring 1990 Westminster Abbey; married three times (to actresses Jill Osmond, Vivien Leigh, Joan Plowright), and had issue, two sons and two daughters.

*I couldn't locate a baptism entry online for Henry Stephen Olivier (Generation 15 above). He was born in Clifton, Bedfordshire, and the parish registers there do not seem to have been digitized yet.
**Sir Laurence Olivier's life peerage fell between the 1970 105th Edition and 1999 106th Edition of Burke's Peerage. But there is an article on Olivier in the 1940 98th Edition of Burke's Peerage, courtesy of Sir Laurence's uncle, Sydney Olivier (1859-1943), created Baron Olivier in 1924. I've added it to my list of articles to copy next time I'm at the library.

Olivier Guionneau contacted me off list, and it seems that the Roglo database has an incorrect mother for Rev. Gerard Olivier (see Generations 16 & 17 above): Emma Selina Eden.
http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=en;i=7596990

This error may have originated from the following descent provided by the Thomas Arundell Society:
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~thomasarundell/genealogy/Laurence.Olivier.html

Emma Selina Eden (c.1835-1908, descended from Charles II), was the wife, not of Rev. Henry Arnold Olivier, but rather of his younger brother, Rev. Dacres Olivier (1831-1919).

Sir Laurence Olivier was not descended from either Charles II or Thomas, 1st Lord Arundell of Wardour, count of the Holy Roman Empire.

Thank you, Charlene. I will download this other book and enter Ronald Ames Hill and his various descents from Edward I, into my database, very soon.

Cheers, -----Brad

[Elizabeth A]

Thank you for letting us know of this book and its ready availability. It turns out pp.9-14 nicely round out the information on the Parkhurst family found in "Fifty Great Migration Colonists to New England and Their Origins" by John Brooks Threlfall (also available on FamilySearch) and I would recommend reading them to anyone else who descends from George Parkhurst (m. Phoebe Leete), or for that matter his cousin Joseph Peck.

[Charlene]

Hi Brad, it's nice to meet you too.

Thank you for fleshing out Sir Laurence Olivier's royal line from Edward III.

> *I couldn't locate a baptism entry online for Henry Stephen Olivier (Generation 15 above). He was born in Clifton, Bedfordshire, and the parish registers there do not seem to have been digitized yet.

The baptism record has been indexed at FamilySearch but there is no image available.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N11H-KLZ

Henry Stephen Olivier's profile at Wikitree currently only has a link to the Geni profile! I have adopted it and will flesh it out with better sources.

[Charlene]

On Friday, 3 December 2021 at 02:56:14 UTC+10, Elizabeth A wrote:
> Thank you for letting us know of this book and its ready availability. It turns out pp.9-14 nicely round out the information on the Parkhurst family found in "Fifty Great Migration Colonists to New England and Their Origins" by John Brooks Threlfall (also available on FamilySearch) and I would recommend reading them to anyone else who descends from George Parkhurst (m. Phoebe Leete), or for that matter his cousin Joseph Peck.

Hi Elizabeth, I'm glad you found the book useful!

[Charlene]

There is another Edward III line for Sir Laurence Olivier via Ursula Bamfield the wife of Thomas Fulford esq. It goes back through Eleanor Holand the illegitimate daughter of Constance of York.

Edward III
Edmund of Langley
Constance of York
Eleanor Holand
Sir Humphrey Audley
Elizabeth Audley
Sir John Sydenham
Elizabeth Sydenham
Ursula Bamfield (Bampfield)

There are at least three Edward I lines for Ursula Bamfield too.

[John Higgins]

By my count there are 8 Edward I descents for Sir Laurence Olivier, two of which are Edward III descents. Sir Thomas Fulford and his wife Ursula Bampfylde account for the two Edward III descents, as indicated in Brad's line of descent above in this thread. Sir Thomas and his wife Ursula have 7 of the 8 Edward I descents - 3 for Sir Thomas and 4 for Ursula. The remaining Edward descent is via Edmund Hull of Tolpuddle as noted above. Edmund Hull presently has no ancestry shown in the Genealogics database, but the descents for his wife Margaret Fulford are likely all there (although I haven't checked).

[Charlene]

Here are some interesting connections between the Olivier and Furse families.

Edith Olivier (daughter of Henry Stephen Olivier) was an English writer, also noted for acting as hostess to a circle of well-known writers, artists, and composers in her native Wiltshire. There is a painting of her by Rex Whistler.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Olivier

In 1937 Edith Olivier had invited Jill [Furse] for a visit to introduce her to Laurence Whistler, the younger brother of Rex. It was a little time before Jill decided definitely in Laurence’s favour, but they eventually fell deeply in love. Laurence was making little money from his writing and engraving but Jill was quite prepared for them to live on her earnings as an actress. In September 1939, with most London theatres closed at the outbreak of war, they obtained a special license and married quietly at Salisbury Cathedral with only a handful of guests, including Edith Olivier, Siegfried Sassoon and Lord David Cecil. The reception afterwards was held at The Walton Canonry in the Close which Rex had leased for his parents. After a honeymoon in Devon, they returned to the Close for Christmas, and stayed for three months.

Jill died in 1944, twelve days after the birth of her 2nd child. She was just 29 years old. Laurence married Theresa, Jill’s younger sister, in 1950.

Source: https://hersalisburystory.com/stories/jill-furse/

Jill and Theresa Furse are descendants of Edward III with four or more lines along with Roger Kemble Furse, Academy Award-winning art director and costume designer of stage and film.
Roger Furse was a frequent collaborator with Sir Laurence Olivier.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_K._Furse

I will post the Edward III lines later if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

[Brad Verity]

On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 4:44:19 PM UTC-8, Charlene wrote:
> The baptism record has been indexed at FamilySearch but there is no image available.
> https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N11H-KLZ
>
> Henry Stephen Olivier's profile at Wikitree currently only has a link to the Geni profile! I have adopted it and will flesh it out with better sources.

Thank you for uncovering and sharing the baptism record, Charlene. I've adjusted Henry Stephen Olivier's birthdate: from '14 August 1796', to 'born 14 August 1795 Clifton, Bedfordshire, bap. 29 Sept. 1795 All Saints Church, Clifton'.

On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 8:28:43 PM UTC-8, Brad Verity wrote:
> Thank you, Charlene. I will download this other book and enter Ronald Ames Hill and his various descents from Edward I, into my database, very soon.

I've finished entering into my database the line of descent from Edward III for physicist and Fellow of the Society of American Genealogists, Ronald Ames Hill. His two books which Charlene has linked to -- 'The Tumultuous Achym/Fulford Relationship, with Abstracts of Chancery Court Proceedings and Transcripts of Chancery Decrees and Orders' (Chaghill Publications, Star, Idaho, 2003), and 'The Ancestors and Descendants of Christopher Hill, Rector of Michaelstow, The Hill migration: Surrey, London, Cornwall, Ontario, and Michigan, 1540–1900' (Chaghill Publications, Star, Idaho, 2006) -- are indeed a model family history. I really enjoyed re-tracing this line of descent. I finally visited the West Country of England a couple years ago, and loved it. So the early generations of the descent, in Cornwall, were very interesting to me. I especially enjoyed learning about Dr. Hill's gateway ancestor James Hill, the youngest son of a Cornish farmer, who immigrated to Canada in 1851 at age 16, learned to be a stonemason in Montreal, then immigrated with his brother to Grand Rapids, Michigan, where they were hired by an established farmer and stonemason in Alpine Township in Michigan, who himself had immigrated from England. James Hill married the farmer's daughter, became a successful farmer himself, and a US citizen in 1889.

Dr. Hill shares the first eight generations of his Edward III descent with Sir Laurence Olivier:

> Edward III had a yst son:
> 1) Thomas of Woodstock, 1st Duke of Gloucester (1355-1397), who had
> 2) Anne, 3rd Countess of Buckingham (1383-1438), who had
> 3) William Bourchier, 9th Lord FitzWarin (c.1409-1469), who had
> 4) Fulk Bourchier, 10th Lord FitzWarin (1445-1479), who had
> 5) John Bourchier, 1st Earl of Bath (1470-1539), who had
> 6) Lady Dorothy Bourchier m. Sir John Fulford of Great Fulford House (c.1502-1544), and had
> 7) Sir John Fulford of Great Fulford House (1524-1580) m. 1) Anne Denys, and had

> 8) Sir Thomas Fulford of Great Fulford House (1553-1610) m. Ursula Bampfylde (d. 1639, descended from Edward III), and had a son A9 and a dau B9 (see below)
A9) Sir Francis Fulford of Great Fulford House (1583-1664) m. Elizabeth Samways, and had
A10) Ursula Fulford (1603-1635) m. her first cousin Thomas Achym of Pelynt (see B10 below), and had
A11) Mary Achym (by 1635-1700) m. Benjamin Penkevell of Tregeare (c.1628-1693), and had
A12) Ursula Penkevell (1663-1724) m. Thomas Hill of Michaelstow (1659-1714), and had
A13) Thomas Hill of Michaelstow (1688-1752) m. Elizabeth Mullis (1684-1744), and had
A14) Thomas Hill of St Kew (1714-1766) m. Mary Pinch (1718-1769), and had
A15) William Hill of Lower Brighter (1760-1827) m. Elizabeth Bray (1758-1849), and had
A16) John Hill of Trequite (1798-1874) m. Mary Pearce (1794-1873), and had
A17) James Hill of Alpine Township, MI (1835-1920) m. Mary Ann Snowden (1839-1920), and had
A18) Rowland Snowden Hill of Alpine Township (1864-1932) m. Carrie Maud Denison (1871-1953), and had
A19) Rowland Lester Hill of Caro, MI (1902-1991) m. Leona May Ames (1904-1977), and had
A20) Ronald Ames Hill, FASG (b. 1934)

B9) Mary Fulford (c.1587-1623) m. 1) Thomas Achym of Pelynt (1570-1618), and had
B10) Thomas Achym of Pelynt (1610-1669) m. 1) his first cousin Ursula Fulford (see A10 above)

Full dates, documentation and detail can be found in Dr. Hill's books. It's a terrific example of how comprehensive genealogical research can provide a link to a Plantagenet past, far removed from the peerage. Generations A14 thru A16 above were farm labourers within their Cornish parish, so this was not an evident line to trace back to Edward III. I can picture J. Horace Round giving his nod of approval.

Thanks & Cheers, ------Brad

[Brad Verity]

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 12:34:00 AM UTC-8, Brad Verity wrote:
> A20) Ronald Ames Hill, FASG (b. 1934)

I meant to link to Dr. Hill's page at the American Society of Genealogists. It includes his full bibliography.
https://fasg.org/fellows/ronald-ames-hill/

[Charlene]

Here is the lower part of the line from Edward III for some of the talented members of the Furse family mentioned in my earlier post.

Sir Drury Wray, of Rathcannon Castle, 9th Baronet (several lines from Edward III)
https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00401785&tree=LEO
Diana Wray (named in her husband's will)
Jane Twigge (named in her father's will)
Dymphna Pery (named in her father's will)
Col. William Thomas Monsell, of Tervoe b. 1754
https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00717826&tree=LEO
Thomas Bewlay Monsell, Archdeacon of Derry d.1846
(The Gentleman's Magazine, Volume 181, 1847 p.101)
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=f67PAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA101
John Samuel Bewlay Monsell 1811-1875
(Biography in the Belfast Telegraph 17 November 1939 p. 8 at FindMyPast) and
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_National_Biography,_1885-1900/Monsell,_John_Samuel_Bewley
Jane Diana Monsell 1839-1877
William Thomas Furse 1865-1953
Roger Kemble Furse, director etc. 1903-1972 and his sister Judith Furse, actress 1912-1974

Jane Diana Monsell 1839-1877
John Henry Monsell Furse, sculptor, and painter 1860-1950
Ralph Dolignon Furse 1887-1973
Barbara Dolignon Furse "Jill Furse" actress 1915-1944 and her sister Theresa Thomasin Dolignon Furse 1927-2007 wives of Laurence Whistler.

[Charlene]

There are more Edward III lines for Roger Furse and Judith Furse via Elizabeth Maunsell, mother of Bolton Waller, father of Anne Waller, wife of John Samuel Bewley Monsell.
https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00633669&tree=LEO

Do you have the Furse family lines in your database Brad?

[Brad Verity]

Charlene, I do not yet have the Furse or Monsell families in my database. Thank you for sharing the line of descent. It looks like the most recent articles on the Monsell family would be the one on the Viscounts Monsell in Burke's Peerage 1970 edition, and the article on De La Poer Monsell in Burke's Irish Family Records (1976). I've added those articles to my copy list the next time I'm at the library.

I have the first three generations of the descent - Sir Drury Wray, 9th Baronet, down to Jane Twigge and Rev. Stackpole Pery - in my database. I have their son the 1st Baron Glentworth of Mallow, but have not entered any further children for the couple. So I don't yet have their daughter Dymphna (Pery) Monsell, or her descendants.

I have the Edward III descents for Sir Drury Wray, and the Edward I descents for his wife Anne (Casey), Lady Wray.

I also have John Thomas Waller and Elizabeth Maunsell in my database, but only their daughter Katherine (Waller), Viscountess Guillamore, not (yet) their son Bolton Waller. I have the Edward III descents for Elizabeth Maunsell, and the Edward I descents for John Thomas Waller.

If I can be of any help to you with those lines, please let me know.

Thanks & Cheers, ----Brad

[Charlene]

On Saturday, 4 December 2021 at 17:08:31 UTC+10, Brad Verity wrote:

> If I can be of any help to you with those lines, please let me know.

Thanks for your kind offer, Brad.

Correction from an earlier post. I mentioned that Edith Olivier, the writer was the daughter of Henry Stephen Olivier. She was actually his granddaughter.

[John Higgins]

Brad:

I can provide you with copies of the following articles:

Furse of Halston, from vol. 1 (1965) of the 18th edition of BLG
De la Poer Monsell, from BIFR 1976
Viscount Monsell, from the 1949 edition of BP

I'll try to send you copies via email later this afternoon.

[John Higgins]

A correction to the above numbers:

There are 12, not 8, Edward I descents for Sir Laurence Olivier. I had overlooked the connection mentioned earlier by Brad Verity whereby William Hull of Tolpuddle (m. Catherine Ludlow; father of Edmund who married Margaret Fulford) was apparently a nephew of Sir Walter Raleigh. William's mother Margaret Raleigh (sister of Sir Walter) brings 4 more Edward I descents for Sir Laurence Olivier.

[Charlene]

On Sunday, 5 December 2021 at 09:38:14 UTC+10, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:

> There are 12, not 8, Edward I descents for Sir Laurence Olivier. I had overlooked the connection mentioned earlier by Brad Verity whereby William Hull of Tolpuddle (m. Catherine Ludlow; father of Edmund who married Margaret Fulford) was apparently a nephew of Sir Walter Raleigh. William's mother Margaret Raleigh (sister of Sir Walter) brings 4 more Edward I descents for Sir Laurence Olivier.

Thank you. I had missed those.

Laurence Olivier and Roger Kemble Furse are 9th cousins once removed. Both are descendants of Elizabeth Sydenham and Richard Bamfield (Bampfield). Roger Kemble Furse's line is via the Cory and Johnson families. Adding more royal lines for him.

[Olivier]

I've got only 11 relationships !
http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=en;templ=rg2;em=R;ei=7606169;et=A;color=;i=1150728

[John Higgins]

Olivier, the Edward I line you're missing is via Richard Bampfylde/Bamfield (father of Ursula) for whom the Roglo database currently has no ancestry. His ancestry is in the Genealogics database starting here:
https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00685021&tree=LEO&parentset=0&display=standard&generations=6
Follow the line back through Bampfylde, St. Maur, Brooke, Braybroke, de la Pole, Cobham, Courtenay, and Bohun to Edward I.

[Olivier]

Thanks for the missing link.
Regards