Archbishop Thomas Rotherham

[An. Archer]

I am seeking information about Thomas Rotherham, the archbishop of York who
died in 1498. In particular I would like to trace his immediate ancestors
and close relatives. Any useful leads would be appreciated.

An.

[Sutliff]

The Rotheram family came from Rotheram, Lincolnshire. I have not checked
this connection of the Archbishop to Sir John Rotheram (1432-bef 10 Aug
1492), married to Alice Winter of Canterbury, daughter of John and Jane
_____. Three children: Thomas, George and Alice, first wife of Thomas St.
George (1473-1540) of Hatley St. George, Cambridgeshire.

Hope this helps.

Henry Sutliff

"An. Archer" <an.a...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:LCuKb.544$%f6.7...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...

[An. Archer]

Thanks.

Since sending the last post I have visited the bookshops at Hay-on-Wye and
obtained a book entitled "A Descriptive Catalogue of the Manuscripts in the
Library of Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge". It lists a MSS "Funatio
Collegii Jesu apud Rotheram" that includes a copy of Rotherham's will, his
charter for Jesus College, a list of his lands, vestments, plate, and church
books, and a paper with an epitaph from the chapel that Lord John Wenlock
founded in St Mary's church, Luton. Lord Wenlock's Bedfordshire estates and
property in London were transferred to archbishop Thomas Rotherham earlier
in 1477, by Wenlock's distant cousins named Lawley. I am hoping that these
documents may prove useful.

An.
.

"Sutliff" <sut...@redshift.com> wrote in message
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[The Bibliographer]

In article <LCuKb.544$%f6.7...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>,

Thomas Rotherham, otherwise known as Thomas Scott, was born on August 24,
1423, at Rotherham, Yorkshire, the son of Sir John Rotherham and his wife,
Alice. His brother was John Rotherham, of Someries, Bedfordshire. For more
details on the spurious connection to the Scott family, see the
<DNB>. vol. XVII, pp. 301-302.

See also <Biography Index. A cumulative index to biographical material in
books and magazines> Volume 3: September, 1952-August, 1955. (New
York: H. W. Wilson Co., 1956).

[From a list message, not mine]
[Later,] John Docwra of Putteridge, married Ann St. George, daughter of
Thomas St. George of Hatley St. George, Cambs. (ca.1472-1539) and Alice
Rotherham. (The St. George's had for a long time lived in Hatley
St. George, and Alice was a daughter of Sir John Rotherham of Someries,
Luton, Beds., a brother of Thomas Rotherham (1423-1500), archbishop of
York [a character in Shakespeare's "King Richard III"].) They had issue:
a) Thomas Docwra of Putteridge (ca.1519-1602), b) Humphrey Docwra
(ca.1525-1564), c) Francis Docwra, married 1) Thomas Chichley, 2) Anthony
Docwra of Warwick. d) Katherine Docwra, married Thomas Potkin.
As a monk Sir Thomas Docwra, the Lord Prior, had no (legal) issue.

--
Regards, Frank Young
tip...@wam.umd.edu 703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

[Louise Staley]

Dear Frank, Hap or An.,

Are there any known links between this Rotherham family and John Rotherham,
father of Anne Rotherham who married William Willoughby of
Normanton-on-Soar, NTT? This would have been about 1550.

thanks
Louise

> "The Bibliographer" wrote in message

[An. Archer]

Thanks Frank,

This really is interesting information. According to documentry evidence
[CPR, CFR, and deeds etc.] 'Sommeries' in Bedfordshire belonged to Lord John
Wenlock, although he spent much of his time in France on diplomatic
missions, visiting the French properties he owned, or his property in
Shropshire.

After the battle of Tewkesbury in 1471 his Bedfordshire estates and property
in London came into the hands of his distant cousins named Lawley, and they
passed it to archbishop Thomas Rotherham in 1477 !

'Sommeries' had previously been in the possession of Lord Wenlock's father,
William Wenlock (alias Wynell), and then Lord Wenlock's elder brother Sir
Thomas Wenlock.

I will follow up your reference.

An.

"The Bibliographer" <tip...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:btfk38$h...@rac2.wam.umd.edu...

[Odd Ottesen]

> "The Bibliographer" wrote in message
>

> [From a list message, not mine]
> [Later,] John Docwra of Putteridge, married Ann St. George, daughter of
> Thomas St. George of Hatley St. George, Cambs. (ca.1472-1539) and Alice
> Rotherham. (The St. George's had for a long time lived in Hatley
> St. George, and Alice was a daughter of Sir John Rotherham of Someries,
> Luton, Beds., a brother of Thomas Rotherham (1423-1500), archbishop of
> York [a character in Shakespeare's "King Richard III"].) They had issue:
> a) Thomas Docwra of Putteridge (ca.1519-1602), b) Humphrey Docwra
> (ca.1525-1564), c) Francis Docwra, married 1) Thomas Chichley, 2) Anthony
> Docwra of Warwick. d) Katherine Docwra, married Thomas Potkin.
> As a monk Sir Thomas Docwra, the Lord Prior, had no (legal) issue.
>

It's from the Rootsweb Docwra list, and it is actually my text, from a couple of years ago.

I here have trusted the Visistations too much, or rather presented their informations. It can now be sligthly corrected. In the will of John Docwra of Temple Dinsley, Herts., from 1531 (http://www.yobunny.co.uk/~docwra/doc-wills16.htm), there is only mentioned tree children - presumably - by his wife Alice (St. George), namely Thomas, Humphrey and Katherine; but John also mentiones his bastard daughter, Frances, who first married Thomas Cheney (not Chichley) and then Anthony Docwra. - This is though a secondary matter right here.

*

My errand here is to refer from the will of Sir John Rotherham of Someries in the parish of Luton in the county of Bedford, written on 29 July 1492, proved on 27 January 1492/93 (PRO PCC Prob/11/9).

Alice, his wife, shall have "my manor called Houghton Conquest with appurtenaces in the town of Houghton within the county of Bedford, item all the lands and tenements lying within the parish of Luton which I have purchased of mine own proper goods and money".

After the decease of Alice, John wishes all this to go to "my son Thomas Rotherham and his heirs", and he shall also - after the decease of Alice - have all the lands and tenements "being in the county of Kent and within the city of Canterbury which lately belonged to Thomas Forster with a tenement being in the parish of St. Margaret within the said city of Canterbury which was also Thomas Forster before rehersed".

Sir John's son George Rotherham shall, after the decease of Alice, have "all the lands and tenements in the city of Canterbury and in the county of Kent that were some time belonging to John Wynter", and also "my tenement called the Bull with the appurtenances set in the High Sicte? within Canterbury". George shall also have all the profit of "Farley and Ludgatesale(?) in the county of Bull__(?)".

There is also mentioned tenements and lands "bequeathed to her [Alice] by her other husband". And it is explicitly said that "the said Thomas and George [are] both her [Alice's] children as well as mine [Sir John's]".

Finally Sir John also mentions "my daughter Alice Rotherham", who is bequeathed £60 and some "goods and chattels" like her brothers, and if they should fail to produce any issue, she is to succeed.

*

In "The Visitation of Bedfordshire" pp. 49-51 and 191-193 we find this Rotherham family fairly well presented. (The name of the parents of Sir John Rotherham abovementioned and his brother, archbishop Thomas Rotherham, is not presented.) Here Sir John Rotherhams wife is shown as Alice Beckett, without known parents. Henry Sutliff shows Alice as a daughter of John Winter (of Canterbury?) and Jane - and the John Wynter mentioned in the will of 1492, may then be the father of Alice.

Alice further obviously was married earlier - to Thomas Forster, also mentioned in the will of 1492. (In the PRO Catalogue one can find: "John Rotheram and Alice, his wife, previously the wife of Thomas Forster..." concerning some messuages in Kent (C 1/53/164).)

*

We then get, I think, that:

Sir John Rotherham of Someries in Luton, Beds., died 1492, with his wife Alice [Winter?], formerly wife of Thomas Forster, had three children:

1. Sir Thomas Rotherham of Someries, died 1504(?), married Katherine Grey (of Ruthin). Their son was Sir Thomas Rotherham of Someries, married to Elizabeth St. John (of Bletsoe), father of Thomas Rotherham of Someries, father of George Rotherham of Someries (will 1599).

2. George Rotherham of Farley in Luton, Beds. He had a natural son George Rotherham of Farley, father of George Rotherham of Farley (will 1594).

3. Alice Rotherham, died before 1512, married (probably shortly after 1492/93) Thomas St. George of Hatley St. George, Cambs., as said above.

Odd Ottesen, Kristiansand, Norway.

[Sutliff]

The identification of the Winter of Canterbury marriage to Sir John Rotheram
comes from Col. Wedgwood's HOP biographies, p. 960 I think.

Henry Sutliff

""Odd Ottesen"" <o...@katedralskolen.com> wrote in message
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[An. Archer]

Hi,

I thought that the following information might also be of interest.

After the battle of Tewkesbury, when, according to the Chronicles, Lord John
Wenlock was either killed in battle or murdered by Somerset, his
Bedfordshire and London properties were held by his distant cousins, the
Lawleys. These properties did not pass to Thomas Rotheram until 1477, just
before a 'John Wenlock' made a will disposing of his Shropshire properties,
a gold cup in a case of leather chased with rubies and pearls, and various
other valuable items. The details from the Calendar of Patent Rolls. 16 May
1477; 17 Edward IV, are as follows:-

"John Lawley, gentleman of Wenlok co. Salop, uncle of Thomas Lawley, esquire
of Wenlok, i.e. brother of William father of Thomas Lawley, to Thomas
cardinal archbishop of Canterbury, Laurence archbishop of York late bishop
of Durham, William lord Hastynges, William Skelton clerk, Thomas Bledlowe
and William Hynkershell, citizens and grocers of London, their heirs and
assigns. Release and quitclaim of all his rights in the manor of
Gretehamstede Somerys in Luton parish co. Bedford, and in the manor of Luton
Mortymere, Kempston, Houghton Conquest, Overstondon, Aspligh, Fenelsgrove
(alias) Fenelsluton, co. Bedford, the hundred of Flytt, with all lands and
tenements, rents, reversions and services, meadows, pastures, woods etc. in
the parishes of Barton, Yon, Gravenhirst, Netherstondon, Stopisley, Luton
and elsewhere in Bedford; and the parishes of Kympton and Walden co.
Hertford and a messuage in le Ryall. London; all formerly of John lord
Wenlok; and warranty against the abbot of St Peters Westminster and his
successors.

Thomas Lawley of Wenlok, kinsman and heir of John late lord Wenlok, to wit
son of William son of Agnes daughter of Thomas brother of Nicholas Wynell,
father of William Wynell (alias) Wenlok father of John lord Wenlok, to
Thomas cardinal archbishop of Canterbury, Laurence archbishop of York etc.
(as above). Release and quitclaim of Greathamstead Somereys, Hertfordshire (
as in preceding entry).

(Memorandum) of acknowledgement of the forgoing writings 17 May."

Leyland states that Thomas Rotherham (alias Scotte) was a 'kinsman' of Lord
John Wenlock. So far I have found NO evidence to support this statement.
That is why I am interested in the ancestry of Thomas Rotherham, and want to
read his will. Any Comments?

An.

"Sutliff" <sut...@redshift.com> wrote in message

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