C.P. Addition: Marriage of Edward Neville and Elizabeth Beauchamp
Douglas Richardson
I recently found a reference to a "receipt" dated 1424 involving the
marriage of Sir Edward Neville (died 1476), Lord Bergavenny, and
Elizabeth Beauchamp in the helpful online A2A Catalogue
(http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp). The catalogue item reads as
follows:
Somerset Archive and Record Service: Microfilm copies of deeds, etc.,
relating mainly to Frome
MICROFILM COPIES OF DEEDS, ETC, RELATING MAINLY TO FROME
Catalogue Ref. T\PH\pls
Creator(s):
The Sale Room Microfilm Project
List compiled by the SRM Project. - ref. T\PH\pls/1
FILE - Receipt - ref. T\PH\pls/1/16 - date: [9 Sep 1424]
[from Scope and Content] [GEC says that Elizabeth Beauchamp married
Edward Nevill (11th and youngest son of Ralph earl of Westmorland)
'before 18 OCt 1424'. This seem to confirm that statement. I've never
seen one of these documents before but of course they must exist. It
was Elizabeth's mother who was d of Thomas Despencer; See GEC 1.27].
END OF CATALOGUE ITEM.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
As we see above, the exact nature of the 1424 "receipt" isn't stated
in the A2A catalogue. As such, I decided to contact the Somerset
Archive and Record Service, where a microfim copy of the original
receipt is kept. Today I received a cordial reply from Philip
Hocking, a researcher in that office. His reply reads as follows:
Our Ref: PH/ENQ/T/59610 May
11 May 2004
Douglas Richardson
Dear Mr Richardson
Thank you for your letter received 10 May 2004.
The document ref: T/PH/pls 1 is a receipt for an aid to the marriage
of
Elizabeth Beauchamp and it is dated 9 September 1424. Her marriage was
imminent at this date but the actual date of the marriage is not
given. It
is known that she was married by 18 October 1424 through the will of
her
husband's father. Presumably 18 October 1424 is the date of his will
and in
it he refers to his son and Elizabeth as married.
The original of this document (the receipt, that is) is in the British
Library. We have only a poor quality photocopy. If you should require
a
copy we could supply one for our minimum charge of £6, but you would
be
better advised to obtain a copy of the original.
Yours sincerely
Philip Hocking
Researcher. END OF LETTER.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
It is interesting that this record turns out to be a receipt for the
"aid to the marriage" of this couple. The survival of this kind of
document is somewhat rare for this time period. As indicated by the
catalogue, the receipt suggests that Edward Neville and Elizabeth
Beauchamp were married about 9 September 1424. This information would
be an addition to Complete Peerage's statement that this couple were
married before 14 October 1424 (as per his father's will) [see
Complete Peerage, 1 (1910): 27, footnote b]. Elsewhere, I find that a
dispensation for this couple to marry is dated 28 August 1428, they
being related in the 4th and 3rd degree of kindred, by virtue of their
common descent from King Edward III of England and his wife, Philippe
of Hainault. The dispensation is likewise not mentioned by Complete
Peerage. Special thanks go to Philip Hocking for his help in
identifying the nature of the 1424 receipt.
For interest sake, I've provided a list below of the colonial
immigrants who descend from Sir Edward Neville and his 1st wife,
Elizabeth Beauchamp:
l. St. Leger Codd.
2. Edward Digges.
3. John Fisher.
4. Warham Horsmanden.
5. John Oxenbridge.
6. Katherine Saint Leger.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
Douglas Richardson
In my post just now on the marriage of Edward Neville and Elizabeth
Beauchamp, I inadvertedly left out the name of one of the colonial
immigrants who descends from this couple. The correct list of
immigrants is as follows:
l. St. Leger Codd.
2. Edward Digges.
3. John Fisher.
4. Warham Horsmanden.
5. John Oxenbridge.
6. Katherine Saint Leger.
7. Mary Johanna Somerset.
Rosie Bevan
Again I'm baffled by the fact that you are not posting the full record which
is as follows:
"Reference: T\PH\pls/1/16
Receipt
Creation dates: [9 Sep 1424]
Extent and Form: 1 doc
Scope and Content
By Lionel Sebrook, feodary of the great court of the honour of Gloucester at
Bristol, to William Poleyn lord of Kayver for 5s for a reasonable aid for
the fourth part of a knight's fee in Kayver for the marriage of Elizabeth
daughter of lady Isabella countess of Warwick, daughter and heir of Thomas
le Despencer; 9 Sep. 1424
[GEC says that Elizabeth Beauchamp married Edward Nevill (11th and youngest
son of Ralph earl of Westmorland) 'before 18 OCt 1424'. This seem to confirm
that statement. I've never seen one of these documents before but of course
they must exist. It was Elizabeth's mother who was d of Thomas Despencer;
See GEC 1.27]"
If you had retrieved the full record you could have seen the full nature of
the receipt and not bothered the nice archivist to ask him what it was. It
is simply a receipt for 5 shillings from a tenant of the honour of
Gloucester for aid to marry the lord of the honour's eldest daughter. Just
as the king could levy subsidies to marry his eldest daughter off, so could
the barons amongst their tenantry. As the subsidy was TO marry off the
daughter, the implication is that she was not yet married at this date and
the archivist was perfectly correct in what he said. All we know for sure is
that she was married by 18 Oct 1424.
Cheers
Rosie
Douglas Richardson
As I indicated in my earlier post on the marriage of Edward Neville
and Elizabeth Beauchamp, this couple obtained a dispensation to marry
28 August 1428, they being related in the 3rd and 4th degrees of
kindred, by virtue of their common descent from King Edward III of
England and his wife, Philippe of Hainault. Curiously, this
dispensation is not mentioned by Complete Peerage.
An abstract of the actual dispensation is found in The Register of
Thomas Langley 6 (Surtees Soc. 182) (1970): 4–6. The pertinent part
of the dispensation record reads as follows:
"1557. Grant (dated 28 August 1428) by the vicar-general to Edward
Nevill and Elizabeth de Bellocampo, nobles, of the dioceses of Durham
and Worcester respectively, of dispensation to marry despite their
relationship in the third and fourth degrees; citing letters of
commission and declaratory of Gregory, bishop of Cefalu, deputy of
Jordan, [cardinal-] bishop of Albano, penitentiary of Martin V, dated
at the Holy Apostles, Rome, 2 and 4 September 1426 respectively."
Reviewing the above record, it seems clear that Edward Neville and
Elizabeth Beauchamp were still not married as late as 28 August 1428,
otherwise the dispensation would have stated that they be allowed to
"remain" in marriage. Rather, the dispensation was for them to marry
sometime in the future. This means, of course, that Complete Peerage
is wrong in stating that this were married before 18 October 1424.
All the same, I presume the marriage was solemnized soon after 28
August 1428, as I note that Elizabeth Beauchamp was born in 1415.
Elizabeth would have reached her 13th year in 1428, which was close to
the usual age when young high born women consumated marriages which
they had contracted in childhood.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> 7. Mary Johanna Somerset.
Betty Owen
Peerage (Burks etc) ever update themselves?
Betty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: C.P. Addition: Marriage of Edward Neville and Elizabeth
Beauchamp
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> As I indicated in my earlier post on the marriage of Edward Neville
> and Elizabeth Beauchamp, this couple obtained a dispensation to marry
> 28 August 1428, they being related in the 3rd and 4th degrees of
> kindred, by virtue of their common descent from King Edward III of
> England and his wife, Philippe of Hainault. Curiously, this
> dispensation is not mentioned by Complete Peerage.
>
> An abstract of the actual dispensation is found in The Register of
> Thomas Langley 6 (Surtees Soc. 182) (1970): 4-6. The pertinent part
Chris Phillips
Betty Owen wrote:
> Douglas I am just curious when you find an error like that does the
complete
> Peerage (Burks etc) ever update themselves?
Peter Hammond, the current editor of CP, does look at the corrections and
additions I am collecting on the website - and also at much of what appears
here, I think. Unfortunately, as far as I know there's no immediate prospect
of a new edition of CP.
As for Burke's Peerage, of course they have just produced another edition,
and maintain a "pay-per-view" online database. At one point they did contact
me to ask if I'd like to become one of their affiliates. I declined, but did
mention that the CP corrections and additions might be of interest to them.
Whether they adopted any of them I don't know. (Of course, many of these
medieval corrections would be outside the scope of "Burke's Peerage", as the
titles are extinct.)
Chris Phillips