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C.P. Addition: Margery de Badlesmere, wife of William de Roos, Thomas de Arundel, and John Avenel

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Douglas Richardson

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Mar 4, 2012, 1:39:36 AM3/4/12
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Dear Newsgroup ~

Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 98-99 (sub Ros) has a good account of
William de Roos, Knt., 2nd Lord Roos of Helmsley (died 1343). The
following information is given regarding his marriage to Margery de
Badlesmere, and her subsequent marriages to Sir Thomas de Arundel and
Sir John Avenel:

"He married (before 25 Nov. 1316) Margery, eldest of the 4 daughters
of Bartholomew (de Badlesmere), 1st Lord Badlesmere, [she was] aged 32
in 1338 ... He died 3 Feb. 1342/3, and was buried at Kirkham. [His
widow Margery] married, 2ndly (royal license, 6 March 1350/1, to marry
whom she would of the King's allegiance) Sir Thomas de Arundel, who
was killed, apparently, in a disturbance at Cockfield, Suffolk. She
afterwards married, 3rdly, presumably as his 3rd wife, Sir John
Avenel, the King's Lieutenant in Brittany, 1353-55, from whom she was
suing for a divorce in April 1355. He died in Brittany circa 1 August
1359. She died shortly before 22 October 1363." END OF QUOTE.

Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1350–1354 (1907): 47 is the source for the
statement that Margery de Badlesmere [widow of William de Roos] was
granted license dated 6 March 1350/1 to marry whom she would. It is
certain that Margery de Badlesmere and her 2nd husband, Sir Thomas de
Arundel, were married before 28 October 1351, on which date they were
granted license by the king to enfeoff Robert Flemmyng, clerk, Rees ap
Rees and William Wade of the castle and manor of Children, held in
chief, and for them to re-grant the same to Thomas and Margery, in
survivorship, with remainder to William de Ros of Hamelake and his
heirs. License was also granted on the same date for Thomas and
Margery to grant that the manor of Bourn, held in chief, which Guy de
Bryan and Elizabeth, his wife, hold as her dower of the inheritance of
Margery, shall remain to the said William de Ros and his heirs. [see
Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1350–1354 (1907): 172–173].

Margery was further styled "now the wife of Sir Thomas Darundell" in a
grant dated 12 Nov. 1351 [see Calendar of Close Rolls, 1349-1354, pp.
390, 395].

Thus we know that Margery de Badlesmere and Sir Thomas de Arundel were
married after 6 March 1350/1 and before 28 October 1351.

The death date of Sir Thomas Arundel is not given by Complete Peerage.
Sir Thomas de Arundel was living 8 October 1352 [see Calendar of Close
Rolls, 1349-1354, pg. 515]. He was evidently killed in a disturbance
at Cockfield, Suffolk sometime before 12 July 1355, when commission
was granted to William de Notton and Simon Warde to make inquisition
in the county of Suffolk for all persons concerned in his death.

No date is given by Complete Peerage for the 3rd marriage of Margery
de Badlesmere and Sir John Avenel, of Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire.
However, they were evidently married before 25 March 1354, when Sir
John Avenel presented to the church of Braunston, Northamptonshire (a
Roos family holding) [see Bridges, History & Antiqs. of
Northamptonshire 1 (1791): 30]. Margery's 1st husband, Sir William de
Roos, presented to the same church in 1329 and 1333 [Reference:
Ibid.]. Presumably Sir John Avenel presented to this church in right
of his wife's dower.

For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th
Century New World immigrants that descend from Margery de Badlesmere
and her first husband, Sir William de Roos, 2nd Lord Roos of Helmsley:

Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Walter
Aston, Frances Baldwin, Charles Barnes, Henry & Thomas Batte, Dorothy
Beresford, Richard & William Bernard, Essex Beville, William Bladen,
George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Joseph Bolles, Thomas Booth, Nathaniel
Browne, Elizabeth Bosvile, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Obadiah
Bruen, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, Grace Chetwode,
Jeremy Clarke, William Crymes, James Cudworth, Francis Dade, Humphrey
Davie, William Farrer, John Fenwick, Henry Fleete, William Goddard,
Muriel Gurdon, Katherine Hamby, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Anne
Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Henry, Jane &
Nicholas Lowe, Thomas Lunsford, Agnes Mackworth, Roger & Thomas
Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Elizabeth Marshall, Anne
Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, Philip & Thomas Nelson,
Ellen Newton, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, Henry &
William Randolph, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard,
Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary
Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Samuel & William Torrey, Olive Welby,
John West, Hawte Wyatt.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah







Adrienne Boaz

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Mar 4, 2012, 12:51:33 PM3/4/12
to Douglas Richardson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Dear Douglas,
This e-mail is excellent, because it is chock full of information, backed up by good sources. The reason my e-mail is off-topic is because it deals with colonial individuals who have medieval ancestors. You said Margery de Badlesmere and Sir William de Roos were ancestors of James Cudworth and Ellen Newton. I have two questions about that: is this the Ellenor Newton Adams who traveled on the ship Anne in 1623, and who later married Kenelm Winslow? Also, I still can't figure out how you linked James Cudworth's mother, Mary Machell, to her parents. I looked at the sources you cited in your article in "Jewels of the Crown", Fall 2009, Issue 4, but I just absolutely failed to find the link. I really tried, though. I hope you might consider enlightening me, unless this information is something you would prefer to reveal in your upcoming edition of Magna Carta Ancestry. Thank you for your time!
Sincerely,
Adrienne Boaz

________________________________
From: Douglas Richardson <royala...@msn.com>
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:39 AM
Subject: C.P. Addition: Margery de Badlesmere, wife of William de Roos, Thomas de Arundel, and John Avenel

Dear Newsgroup ~


-------------------------------
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Douglas Richardson

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Mar 4, 2012, 1:59:36 PM3/4/12
to
On Mar 4, 10:51 am, Adrienne Boaz <adrienne_b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Douglas,
> This e-mail is excellent, because it is chock full of information, backed up by good sources. The reason my e-mail is off-topic is because it deals with colonial individuals who have medieval ancestors. You said Margery de Badlesmere and Sir William de Roos were ancestors of James Cudworth and Ellen Newton. I have two questions about that: is this the Ellenor Newton Adams who traveled on the ship Anne in 1623, and who later married Kenelm Winslow? Also, I still can't figure out how you linked James Cudworth's mother, Mary Machell, to her parents. I looked at the sources you cited in your article in "Jewels of the Crown", Fall 2009, Issue 4, but I just absolutely failed to find the link. I really tried, though. I hope you might consider enlightening me, unless this information is something you would prefer to reveal in your upcoming edition of Magna Carta Ancestry. Thank you for your time!
> Sincerely,
> Adrienne Boaz

Dear Adrienne ~

Ellen Newton included in my list of 17th Century immigrants is Ellen
Newton, wife of Edward Carleton, Gent., of Rowley, Massachusetts.
I'll answer your question about James Cudworth by private e-mail.

DR

Adrienne Boaz

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Mar 4, 2012, 3:00:24 PM3/4/12
to Wjhonson, Gen
Hi there Will,

I am waiting on the arrival of this document from the National Archives:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-2915380&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=C+142%2F240%2F17#summary

Which I am pretty sure that you said was Matthew Machell's IPM. If that is the document which links Matthew with his daughter, Mary, then that's good enough for me! Thank you for replying, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Richardson!
 - Adrienne


________________________________
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: adrien...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: slightly off topic re: C.P. Addition: Margery de Badlesmere, wife of William de Roos, Thomas de Arundel, and John Avenel

DR states that Matthew has a IPM
Have you seen this?


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrienne Boaz <adrien...@yahoo.com>
To: Douglas Richardson <royala...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 4, 2012 10:01 am
Subject: slightly off topic re: C.P. Addition: Margery de Badlesmere, wife of William de Roos, Thomas de Arundel, and John Avenel


Dear Douglas,
This e-mail is excellent, because it is chock full of information, backed up by
good sources. The reason my e-mail is off-topic is because it deals with
colonial individuals who have medieval ancestors. You said Margery de Badlesmere
and Sir William de Roos were ancestors of James Cudworth and Ellen Newton. I
have two questions about that: is this the Ellenor Newton Adams who traveled on
the ship Anne in 1623, and who later married Kenelm Winslow? Also, I still can't
figure out how you linked James Cudworth's mother, Mary Machell, to her parents.
I looked at the sources you cited in your article in "Jewels of the Crown", Fall
2009, Issue 4, but I just absolutely failed to find the link. I really tried,
though. I hope you might consider enlightening me, unless this information is
something you would prefer to reveal in your upcoming edition of Magna Carta
Ancestry. Thank you for your time!
Sincerely,

Adrienne Boaz ________________________________ From: Douglas Richardson <royala...@msn.com>


To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:39 AM
Subject: C.P. Addition: Margery de Badlesmere, wife of William de Roos, Thomas

de Arundel, and John Avenel Dear Newsgroup ~ Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 98-99 (sub Ros) has a good account of

John West, Hawte Wyatt. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah -------------------------------


To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of

the message -------------------------------

Wjhonson

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Mar 4, 2012, 3:16:10 PM3/4/12
to royala...@msn.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com

Oh Red Flag alert





-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Richardson <royala...@msn.com>

Douglas Richardson

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Mar 4, 2012, 4:10:05 PM3/4/12
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Dear Newsgroup ~

You've doubtless heard of the famous movie, Runaway Bride, which
starred the actress, Julia Roberts. In medieval times, they had
"runaway" nuns.

In my previous post, I noted that Margery de Badlesmere married (2nd)
before 28 October 1351 Thomas de Arundel, Knt. Sir Thomas de Arundel
was living 8 October 1352 [see Calendar of Close Rolls, 1349-1354, pg.
515]. Sir Thomas de Arundel apparently died before 25 March 1354, and
certainly before 12 July 1355. This couple is not thought to have had
any children.

Margery de Badlesmere was born about 1306 (aged 32 in 1338). As such,
she was apparently at the end of her child bearing years at the time
of her brief marriage to Sir Thomas de Arundel. Even so, it appears
that this couple had a daughter, Elizabeth Arundel, who was the
Prioress of Haliwell (or Holywell) Priory. Proof of Elizabeth
Arundel's existence is found in the will of her nephew, Sir John Roos,
Knt., 5th Lord Roos of Helmsley, which will is dated 24 Jan. 1392,
proved 25 Feb. 1393/4. In this will, Sir John Roos specifically names
"Lady Elizabeth Arondell my aunt, a nun of Halliwell."

An abstract of the will of Sir John Roos is published in Gibbons Early
Lincoln Wills 1280–1547 (1888): 70–71, and may be viewed at the
following weblink:

http://www.archive.org/stream/earlylincolnwil00gibbgoog#page/n83/mode/2up

As for the history of Elizabeth Arundel, my research indicates that
she was listed as one of the nuns at Haliwell Priory in the 1381 poll
tax of London. In 1382 she ran away from Haliwell Priory, and refused
to return. At the request of the prioress, the king ordered that
Thomas Sayvill, Serjeant-at-arms, and three others arrest Elizabeth
Arundell, an apostate nun of Haliwell, and deliver her to the Prioress
of Haliwell. As stated above, Elizabeth was a legatee in the 1392
will of her nephew, John de Roos, Knt., she then being a nun at
Haliwell. She subsequently became Prioress of Haliwell Priory. In
1422–3, as “Elizabeth, prioress of Haliwell,” she was paid 16s. 8d. in
quit-rent by the Mercers of London for preceding year and a quarter.
In 1423–4, as “Elizabeth, prioress of Haliwell,” she was paid 10s. in
quit-rent for the terms of Midsummer, Michaelmas, and Christmas. In
1427–8, as “Dame Elizabeth Arundel, Prioress of Haliwell,” she was
paid 26s. 8d. in quit-rent by the Mercers of London for two whole
years up to Christmas 1427. On July 10, 1428 Elizabeth Arundell,
prioress, brought a plaint of intrusion against Roger Jurdan, prior of
the hospital of St. Mary without Bishopsgate, touching her free
tenement in the parish of St. Antonine, London. In 1428–9, as “Dame
Elizabeth Arundel, Prioress of Haliwell,” she was paid 13s. 4d. in
quit-rent for an entire year by the Mercers of London. In 1429–30 as
“Dame Elizabeth, Prioress of Haliwell,” she was paid 13s. 4d. in quit-
rent for a whole year by the Mercers of London. In 1430–31 as “Dame
Elizabeth, Prioress of Haliwell,” she was paid 13s. 4d. in quit-rent
for a whole year by the Mercers of London. In 1432 William, Prior of
Christchurch Canterbury, complained that Elizabeth Arundell, prioress
of St. John the Baptist Haliwell, and William Walworth disseised him
of 4s. rent in the parish of St. Michael in Crokadlane; the prioress,
by John Stafford, denied the disseisin and was subsequently found
innocent. She died before 1440.

References:

1. Cal. Patent Rolls, 1381–1385 (1897): 255.

2. Thomas, Cal. Plea & Memoranda Rolls of London 1413–1437 (1943): 220–
221 (#10896), which may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Hpw3AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA220&lpg=PA220

3. Chew, London Possessory Assizes: a Calendar (1965): 100–115, which
may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64185

4. McHardy, Church in London 1375–1392 (London Rec. Soc.) (1977): 25–
27, which may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=36016

5. Power, Medieval English Nunneries c.1275 to 1535 (1988): 442 (cites
National Archives, Chancery Warrants, Ser. I, File 1759), which may be
viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zDDjpi81RrQC&pg=PA442&lpg=PA442

6. Makowski, Canon Law & Cloistered Women (1997): 120, which may be
viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=bA6HqQmnJt0C&pg=PA120

7. Jefferson, Medieval Account Books of the Mercers of London 1
(2009): 345, 355, 395, 407, 421, 437. This information may be viewed
at the following weblinks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=prF4yUOqxdMC&pg=PA345
http://books.google.com/books?id=prF4yUOqxdMC&pg=PA355
http://books.google.com/books?id=prF4yUOqxdMC&pg=PA395
http://books.google.com/books?id=prF4yUOqxdMC&pg=PA407
http://books.google.com/books?id=prF4yUOqxdMC&pg=PA421
http://books.google.com/books?id=prF4yUOqxdMC&pg=PA437

I should note that Elizabeth Arundel is not included in the list of
the prioresses of Haliwell published by Sir James Bird, Survey of
London, 8 (1922): 153-187.

Douglas Richardson

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Mar 4, 2012, 6:40:10 PM3/4/12
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Dear Newsgroup ~

As a followup to my earlier post, I can add that VCH Middlesex 1
(1969): 178 indicates that Elizabeth Arundel the "runaway nun" occurs
as Prioress of Haliwell in 1428, and that she died in 1432. VCH
Middlesex 1 can be viewed at the following weblink:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22118

VCH Middlesex 1 cites the following two sources for Elizabeth Arundel
who was Prioress of Haliwell. The first source (which I cited in my
earlier post) names Elizabeth Arundel as Prioress in 1428. The second
reference must be the source for Elizabeth Arundel's death date of
1432. The year 1432 is also the date that Elizabeth Arundel's
successor, Clemence Freeman, was elected prioress in her place.

Cal. of Plea and Mem. R. 1413–37, 220–1; Guildhall MS. 9531/4, f. 45.

As indicated in my earlier post, Elizabeth Arundel was prioress as
early as 1422–3. Thus she was prioress from at least 1422–3 until
1432.

Doug

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Mar 5, 2012, 6:38:13 AM3/5/12
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Are the ancestries of this Sir Thomas Arundel and Sir John Avenel known?


Doug Smith

Douglas Richardson

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Mar 5, 2012, 12:52:42 PM3/5/12
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On Mar 5, 4:38 am, Doug <al...@mindspring.com> wrote:

< Are the ancestries of this Sir Thomas Arundel and Sir John Avenel
known?
<
< Doug Smith

Doug ~

I don't know the parentage of either Sir Thomas de Arundel or Sir John
Avenel. Perhaps someone else has those particulars.

smith....@gmail.com

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Mar 6, 2012, 5:33:52 PM3/6/12
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That Avenal family is covered in the sources below:

'Parishes: Gamlingay', A History of the County of Cambridge and the Isle of Ely: Volume 5 (1973), pp. 68-87. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=66675 Date accessed: 05 March 2012. Charles Wycliffe Goodwin, The Anglo Saxon Legends of St Andrew and St Veronica, Cambridge, Cambs. Antiquarian Society, 1851, pps. 13-15.

I have not been able to identify the family of Sir Thomas Arundel.

Doug Smith
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