John Sothill of Sothill, d. 1498

[mark_...@hotmail.com]

Has the ancestry of the John Sothill of Sothill who married Alice,
daughter of Robert Neville of Liversedge, been established? The Stirnet
site states that John, who - apparently - died on November 28th 1498,
was the son of another John Sothill of Sothill by his wife Joan,
daughter of Sir John Clervaux of Croft by Eleanor Percy. The site - at
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/ss4as/southill1.htm - cites:

Main source(s): Visitation (Yorkshire, 1942 compilation, Soothill of
Soothill, Stockfaston, North Deighton and Everingham), Visitation
(Lincolnshire, 1903 compilation, Southill of Redbourn)

I've found much discussion of earlier Sothills (or Sotells etc.) of
Sothill in the archives, but nothing on this John's ancestry. I'd much
appreciate any info anyone might have.

Thanks,

Mark Bridge

[ToddWhi...@aol.com]

_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L John Sothill of Sothill, d. 1498_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-07/1122732364)

Mark~

The pedigree of that individual can be found on pp. 341-343 of J. W.
Walker's Yorkshire Pedigrees T-Z and Index Nominum and Locorum (1944) (Harleian
Society Publication 92).



Pedigree of Soothill of Soothill, Stockfaston, North Deighton, and Everingham

Reginald Soothill, lord of Soothill, gave 20 acres of land in Hoyland Swaine
to the monks of Monk Bretton, 1194-1211. His son:

Sir John Soothill of Soothill, Knt. Inq. p.m. 30 Nov. 1266; rendered 6s.
7d. yearly to Richard de Thornhill for Soothill. His wife was Alice who was
living 21 Jun. 1242. His son:

Sir John Soothill of Soothill, Knt., in 1276 leased to Henry, son of Adam de
Miggeley the fourth part of one assart in Ovenden. His son:

Sir Henry Soothill, Knt., living 29 May 1369. His wife was Joan, daughter
of Sir William Fitzwilliam, of Sprotborough, by Maud, daughter of Sir Ralph
Cromwell of Tattersall. Their son:

Henry Soothill, living 25 Jan. 1392; had a grant of lands in Ardsley by
William Lyster 30 Jun. 1383. His wife was Eleanor, daughter of Richard Moseley,
Esq. Their son:

Sir John Soothill, living 1425. His wife was Alice, daughter of John
Mauleverer. Their son:

John Soothill. Administration of will 16 Jun. 1485. His wife was Joan,
daughter of Sir John Clervaux of Croft, Knt., by Ellinor, daughter of Sir
Alexander Percy, Knt. Their son:

John Soothill, founder of a chantry in Dewsbury Church 1 Jun. 1492; died 28
Sep. 1498. Will recorded 8 Oct. 1500. His wife was Alison, daughter of Sir
Robert Nevile of Liversedge, by Ellen, daughter of Sir William Molineux of
Sefton, Lancashire. Her will was dated 23 Jul. 1509 and recorded 21 Aug. 1509.

This pedigree continues for three more generations. Hope you find this
helpful.

[Nathaniel Taylor]

In article <1f9.f1bb60...@aol.com>, ToddWhi...@aol.com
wrote:

Just as a caveat, the _Yorkshire Pedigrees_ pedigree of Soothill has
several obvious errors (the Fitzwilliam marriage here is one of them
that has been discussed on sgm a few times). What you've given here
should be checked against excellent posts by John Ravilious and others
in the archives.

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

my children's 17th-century American immigrant ancestors:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/immigrantsa.htm

[ToddWhi...@aol.com]

_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Re: John Sothill of Sothill, d. 1498_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-08/1123108539)

Thanks for the warning. Since no one had apparently responded to his
inquiry I wanted to share what I had seen from that one source. I was not vouching
for its authenticity. Personally I would always want to verify a secondary
source with primary ones. But it was a place to start if he has not seen it.
Thanks again for the admonishment.

[Nathaniel Taylor]

In article <84.4ac89b7...@aol.com>, ToddWhi...@aol.com
wrote:

Definitely. In this case, searching the sgm archive should pull up a
series of posts by John Ravilious (& others) which help correct the
_Yorkshire Pedigrees_ account, at least for the earlier generations. I
think there was still some question about just how many Henrys or Johns
fit into this particular line, and who their wives really were. If I
get a minute I'll collate what I saved on this family (I have a couple
of descents from them, via William Wentworth of New Hampshire).

[Sutliff]

Comment below:

>
> John Soothill, founder of a chantry in Dewsbury Church 1 Jun. 1492; died
> 28
> Sep. 1498. Will recorded 8 Oct. 1500. His wife was Alison, daughter of
> Sir
> Robert Nevile of Liversedge, by Ellen, daughter of Sir William Molineux
> of
> Sefton, Lancashire. Her will was dated 23 Jul. 1509 and recorded 21 Aug.
> 1509.
>
> This pedigree continues for three more generations. Hope you find this
> helpful.

I may have posted on this previously, but would at least point out the
possibility of an error in the identity of the Sir Robert Neville of
Liversedge and Hunslet. The William Molyneux of Sefton who was alive at this
time would have been too young (1481-1548) to have been Ellen's father, so
she may belong to another Molyneux or another branch or may not be a
Molyneux at all. The first wife of Robert Neville was N. N. Scargill by whom
he had two daughters. He is shown to have one son and three daughters by
Ellen.

Henry Sutliff

[mark_...@hotmail.com]

Thank you all for your feedback. It looks like the Sothill pedigree
still needs work. I'll certainly check the sources you've suggested.

Best,

Mark

[Robert O'Connor]

<ToddWhi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1f9.f1bb60...@aol.com...

> _RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L John Sothill of Sothill, d. 1498_
> (http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-07/1122732364)
>
> Mark~
>
> The pedigree of that individual can be found on pp. 341-343 of J. W.
> Walker's Yorkshire Pedigrees T-Z and Index Nominum and Locorum (1944)
(Harleian
> Society Publication 92).
>

By any chance is there reference there to an Alice So[u]thill, wife of Sir
John Harington of Exton, Rutland (d 1524)?

Thank you
Robert O'Connor

[mvernon...@yahoo.co.uk]

There is another chronology problem here.In the Clervaux pedigree
(which I can't vouch for), this Sir John Clervaux and wife Ellinor
Percy are great-great-great-grandparents of Marmaduke Clervaux who
d.1498-9; the same time as the John Sothill who was supposedly a
grandson of the same couple. Their great-grandson Sir John Clervaux
(d.1443) was married to a dau. of Sir Ralph, lord Lumley (d.1400); it
all suggests that the couple in question lived early in the 14th
century (consistent with the period of the known Alexander Percy of
Kildale/Ormesby). So, if there was a Sothill/Clervaux marriage it
probably belongs earlier in the Sothill line (or later in the
Clervaux).