Danish Haralds in 9th century Frisia
Stewart Baldwin
which I posted to this newsgroup, and a minor revision of that posting
has been available at the GEN-MEDIEVAL/soc.genealogy.medieval website
for several years:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~medieval/danking.htm
Over the last few years, I have become aware of other recent accounts
giving the basic genealogy of these ninth century kings, two of them
(by Sawyer and Maund) from the early 1990's of which I was unaware
when I wrote my account, and two others (by Coupland and Cutler) that
have appeared more recently (and I thank Jack Brown for giving me the
URL for Cutler's article and for providing me with a copy of
Coupland's and Sawyer's articles).
The are some differences between my own version and the other ones, of
which the most important will be discussed in more detail below. The
only major difference bewteen Sawyer's genealogical account and the
one that I gave is that he routinely interpreted "nepos" as "nephew",
whereas I left "nepos" with a more ambiguous interpretation in my
account.
In addition to some genealogical differences, Maund's account was very
different from the others in that she argued that Denmark was
generally not a united monarchy during this period and that there were
usually several joint kings at any one time. While this was certainly
true for part of the period, I think that she overstates her case by
representing certain individuals as possible joint monarchs on too
little evidence. There probably would have been numerous local lords
in Denmark who were effectively independent within there own little
fiefdoms and owed only nominal allegiance to the king (as was the case
throughout most of "Carolingian" Europe as well), but I don't accept
that such individuals who might be found acting on their own ought to
be accepted as joint kings without good evidence to that effect. I
think that the events of 812 show that the kingship of the Danes was
an office that could be fought over, but that it could also be shared
if that became necessary. I also have some genealogical qualms about
Maund's article, as I believe that she was too quick to identify
individuals of the same name as the same person. (For example, she
identifies Godefrid son of Harald, active in the 850's, with the
Godefrid who was active in the 880's.)
It is the papers by Coupland and Cutler that has required me to make a
significant change in my opinion about the relationship of Rorik and
the Harald who was baptized in 826. The key point that both Coupland
and Cutler (independently) make is that there appear to have been two
Danish Haralds (one a "nepos" of the other) who were involved in
Frisia in the middle of the ninth century (i.e., not counting the
obscure earlier Harald who is briefly mentioned only in the Frankish
annals for 812), with Rorik being a "nepos" of the well known Harald
who was baptized in 826, and a brother of the other (overlooked)
Harald. While I see some weaknesses to the "two Haralds" theory that
were evidently overlooked, which will be mentioned below, I believe
that the evidence is still strong enough that they have made the case.
The main problem has been noticed on numerous occasions. The Annals
of St. Bertin for 850 refer to Rorik as a "nepos" of Harald, whereas
the Annals of Fulda for the same year, in a retrospective entry,
mentions Rorik and his brother Harald and mentions the previous death
of Rorik's brother (clearly intended to indicate the same Harald, from
context). It is clear that either there is a contradiction here, or
that the Haralds mentioned were two different men.
Three additional pieces of evidence point in the direction of the
latter. One is that there is another apparently retrospective entry
in the Annals of Fulda for 852 that indicates that the well known
Harald who was baptized in 826 died in that year. A weakness of this
evidence is that both Fulda entries (850, 852) are narrative entries
that also mention earlier events, indicating the possibility that
these entries are not contemporary, but rather retrospective entries
that may have accidently recorded the same death in two different
places (and in the wrong year in the 852 entry).
Another piece of evidence is that Rorik (who was still living in 873)
appears to be in a later generation than the Anulo who died in 812
(who was a brother of the Harald baptized in 826). This is a valid
argument, but hardly conclusive, because a younger brother of Anulo
might still be a young child in 812, and could easily live until 873
without even reaching the age of seventy.
In addition, the activities reported about the Danish pirate Harald in
the Annals of St. Bertin in the year 841 show a hostile Viking who
seems quite different from the man who had been so friendly to the
Franks in other accounts. It would certainly simplify matters if
these were two different men, but this evidence would also have to be
regarded as nonconclusive.
One weakness of the "two Haralds" theory which both Coupland and
Cutler appear to have overlooked is that one could assume that Rorik
was a brother of the Harald who was baptized in 826, and STILL have it
be consistent with all of the relationships given in the Frankish
sources, with the sole exception of the 852 entry for the annals of
Fulda. The reason for this is that there was a yet earlier Harald
(the one mentioned in the phrase "Anulo nepos Herioldi" of the annal
of 812) who is known, and that if Rorik was a brother of the well
known Harald (a brother of Anulo), then he would also be a "nepos" of
this obscure earlier Harald, so that references to Rorik as "nepos
Herioldi" would still not be contradictory even in this case.
Despite the above comments, I think that the case that was made
independently by Coupland and Cutler is a good one, and I believe that
the "two Haralds" solution is probably correct (actually, three
Haralds of you also count the obscure earlier person of that name).
However, it is still true that the case relies more heavily than they
acknowledged on the two apparently retrospective annals for 850 and
852 in the Annals of Fulda.
The genealogical table below shows the "two Haralds" solution, and is
subject to the usual warning that it has to be displayed using a
constant-width font with a line length of at least 70 characters, or
it won't look right. Rather than assume a specific English
translation for "nepos", I have left the term untranslated, and have
used a slanted line like the following figure
A
\
\
\[nepos]
\
\
B
to describe the case where B is described as a "nepos" of A without
any other information to allow a more precise affiliation. The
authors cited below generally translate "nepos" as "nephew". If that
is the case here, the eldest Harald and Halfdan would be brothers, and
Rorik and the youngest Harald would be sons of one of the middle
Harald's brothers (but not necessarily one of the three shown here,
and I see no good reason for assigning their father as Hemming, as
Cutler does). This table assumes that the Hemming who was mentioned
as a brother of Harald and Reginfrid in 812 was the same man as the
Hemming son of Halfdan who died in 837. (This widely made assumption
is the only evidence for the name of the father of the four brothers
of the 812 annal.) The father of Godefrid is clearly identified as
the Harald who was baptized in the time of Louis the Pious (Annals of
St. Bertin, 852), and Rodulf (called son of an unspecified Harald on a
few occasions) is also called a "nepos" of Rorik (Annals of St.
Xanten, 873), placing him as the son of the youngest Harald. I am
assuming (in agreement with all of the authors mentioned here except
Maund) that the Godefrid of the 850's was different from the Godefrid
of the 880's, although the possibility that they were the same man
cannot be completely ruled out. (Cutler's placement of the younger
Godefrid as son of the elder Godefrid is almost certainly wrong, as
Vikings were not generally named after their fathers.) Although his
genealogical affiliation in uncertain, I have included the younger
Godefrid on this table with an unknown parentage, because the fact
that he held lands formerly held by Rorik suggests that they were of
the same family. I have done the same with Otto the Great's
grandmother Reinhilda, since her description as Frisian/Danish
suggests at least a reasonable possibility of being connected to this
family. I have not included the other Danish rulers who have no
proven connection to these individuals, although a more distant
relationship between them cannot be ruled out. [And, just in case
somebody asks, I regard Belaiew's theory that the Danish/Frisian Rorik
was the same man as the famous Russian Rurik to be unconvincing.]
Stewart Baldwin
Table:
Harald
d. bef. 804?
\ Halfdan
\ "Northmannorum dux"
\[nepos] living 807
\ ______________|__________________________
\ | | | |
Anulo Harald Reginfrid Hemming
claimed joint king joint king killed at
Danish of the Danes of the Danes Walcheran,
throne 812-3, 819-27 812-3, d. 814 837
in 812, held benefice
d. 812 in Rüstringen
826-, d. 852
| \
________| \
| \[nepos]
| \ __________________
| \ | |
Godefrid Rorik, d. 873×882 Harald
fl. 852-5 held Dorestad and held Dorestad
raider, held other parts of with Rorik,
Dorestad with Frisia for many d. bef. 850
Rorik, had years, joined |
unsuccessful Godefrid in 855 |
bid for Danish for unsuccessful |
throne in 855, bid for Danish Rodulf (Rolf)
later history throne, but held Viking raider,
unknown part of Denmark d. 873
for short period
beginning 857
?????
|
Godefrid, d. 885
Danish raider,
granted lands
in Frisia in 882
that had been held
earlier by Rorik
m. 882, Gisela,
dau. of Lothair II,
king of Lorraine
?????
|
Reinhilda, "Fresonum
Danorumque genere
progrediens", maternal
grandmother of
Otto the Great
Bibliography:
Simon Coupland, "From poachers to gamekeepers: Scandinavian warlords
and Carolingian kings", Early Medieval Europe 7 (1998), 85-114.
K. Cutler, "Danish Exiles in the Carolingian Empire--the Case for Two
Haralds", http://php.iupui.edu/~kcutler/exiles.html#a
K. L. Maund, "'A Turmoil of Warring Princes': Political leadership in
ninth-century Denmark", The Haskins Society Journal 6 (1994), 29-47.
Peter Sawyer, "Kings and Royal Power", Jysk Arkćologisk Selskabs
Skrifter 22 (1991), 282-8.
Phil Moody
> Over the last few years, I have become aware of other recent accounts
> giving the basic genealogy of these ninth century kings, two of them
> (by Sawyer and Maund) from the early 1990's of which I was unaware
> when I wrote my account, and two others (by Coupland and Cutler) that
> have appeared more recently (and I thank Jack Brown for giving me the
> URL for Cutler's article and for providing me with a copy of
> Coupland's and Sawyer's articles).
<snip>
> Peter Sawyer, "Kings and Royal Power", Jysk Arkćologisk Selskabs
> Skrifter 22 (1991), 282-8.
PLM: Did Jack happen to give me credit for supplying him with Peter Sawyer's
essay? I in fact, mentioned this article in an e-mail which I posted to you,
Stewart. Quoted in full below:
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:34:01 EDT
From: <PMood...@aol.com>
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <46.13d126a...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Olaf III 'Skotkonung' Eriksson
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Although I would regard this as one possibility, I lean in a different
direction. My suggestion is as follows: Erik was married to Sigrid, by
whom
she had Olaf. Svend was married twice, first to Gunhild, sister of Boleslaw
of Poland, by whom he had sons Harald and Knud. After Erik's death, Svend
married Sigrid, by whom he had the daughter Estrid who was mother of Svend
II.
PLM: Stewart, I'm glad to see you giving the Scandinavian sources some
credit. I think we should remember that Erik married more than once; unless
you believe that Holmfrid was also the daughter of Sigrid.
Holmfrid married Jarl Swein Hakonson and they had Gunhild, the spouse
of
Sven Estridson. I do find it perplexing that Adam of Bremen has Jarl Hakon's
lineage all muddled up when it is supposedly derived from Svend Estridson.
I have not read Adam of Bremen's work but I do feel as though many rely
on it to heavily. Peter Sawyer wrote in_Hovdingesamfund og Kongemagt_(Kings
and Royal Power) that [Adam of Bremen's account of the Danish rulers in the
early tenth century cannot be trusted in detail].
I would go even further and say that Adam cannot be trusted throughout
the tenth century.
Phil
End Quote
PLM: This reference resulted in many requests for Dr. Sawyer's essay off
list; Jack Brown and Todd Farmerie being two recipients, off the top of my
head. Here is another e-mail I sent to the group:
Quote:
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:12:27 EDT
From: <PMood...@aol.com>
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <12.d336b4...@aol.com>
Subject: Hovdingesamfund og Kongemagt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Dear All:
I have now sent this to three individuals signally and it is becoming
time consuming and very redundant. I shall then wait until I have several
requests for Peter Sawyer's work before uploading it again. My apologies for
the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.
Best Wishes,
Phil
End Quote
Now, this article was mentioned in a corresponance from Peter Sawyer
himself, and Pia Rink of Copenhagn kindly copied this article for me, and
sent it to me via snail mail, at my request; so I went to great lengths to
acquire this essay, and making it available to those who wanted to read it,
and I don't appreciate ingrates who don't give credit where credit is due.
Best Wishes,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart Baldwin" <sba...@mindspring.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: Danish Haralds in 9th century Frisia
royalynx
To the Group,
In order that credit may be given where credit is due, permit me to
mention that Mr. Moody is quite right when he mentions in this
message that he had sent me a copy of this article by Professor
Sawyer. Let me assure everyone on the list that Stewart Baldwin
was unaware of my having received this from Mr. Moody and, in
fact, I had forgotten it myself and have had to search back through
my records to find that he not only sent me this article but also
sent me an article by the late Dr. Nora Chadwick which, un-
fortunately I am unable to locate at the moment.
In spite of what Mr. Moody might think, the copy of the article I
furnished Professor Baldwin was one I had requested and received
from the publisher of the book in which the article appeared, and
which they happily supplied me free of charge inasmuch as the
book was out of print and they were unable to sell me a copy.
And I do very much like to give credit where credit is due.
Best regards to all on the list,
Jack K. Brown
Phil Moody wrote:
>Stewart Baldwin wrote:
>
>>Over the last few years, I have become aware of other recent accounts
>>giving the basic genealogy of these ninth century kings, two of them
>>(by Sawyer and Maund) from the early 1990's of which I was unaware
>>when I wrote my account, and two others (by Coupland and Cutler) that
>>have appeared more recently (and I thank Jack Brown for giving me the
>>URL for Cutler's article and for providing me with a copy of
>>Coupland's and Sawyer's articles).
>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Peter Sawyer, "Kings and Royal Power", Jysk Arkćologisk Selskabs
>>Skrifter 22 (1991), 282-8.
>>
>
>PLM: Did Jack happen to give me credit for supplying him with Peter Sawyer's
>essay? I in fact, mentioned this article in an e-mail which I posted to you,
>Stewart. Quoted in full below:
>
>PLM: This reference resulted in many requests for Dr. Sawyer's essay off
>list; Jack Brown and Todd Farmerie being two recipients, off the top of my
>head. Here is another e-mail I sent to the group:
>
[snip]
royalynx
To the Group,
In order that credit may be given where credit is due, permit me to
mention that Mr. Moody is quite right when he mentions in this
message that he had sent me a copy of this article by Professor
Sawyer. Let me assure everyone on the list that Stewart Baldwin
was unaware of my having received this from Mr. Moody and, in
fact, I had forgotten it myself and have had to search back through
my records to find that he not only sent me this article but also
sent me an article by the late Dr. Nora Chadwick which, un-
fortunately I am unable to locate at the moment.
In spite of what Mr. Moody might think, the copy of the article I
furnished Professor Baldwin was one I had requested and received
from the publisher of the book in which the article appeared, and
which they happily supplied me free of charge inasmuch as the
book was out of print and they were unable to sell me a copy.
And I do very much like to give credit where credit is due.
Best regards to all on the list,
Jack K. Brown
Phil Moody wrote:
>Stewart Baldwin wrote:
>
>>Over the last few years, I have become aware of other recent accounts
>>giving the basic genealogy of these ninth century kings, two of them
>>(by Sawyer and Maund) from the early 1990's of which I was unaware
>>when I wrote my account, and two others (by Coupland and Cutler) that
>>have appeared more recently (and I thank Jack Brown for giving me the
>>URL for Cutler's article and for providing me with a copy of
>>Coupland's and Sawyer's articles).
>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Peter Sawyer, "Kings and Royal Power", Jysk Arkćologisk Selskabs
>>Skrifter 22 (1991), 282-8.
>>
>
>PLM: Did Jack happen to give me credit for supplying him with Peter Sawyer's
>essay? I in fact, mentioned this article in an e-mail which I posted to you,
>Stewart. Quoted in full below:
>
>PLM: This reference resulted in many requests for Dr. Sawyer's essay off
>list; Jack Brown and Todd Farmerie being two recipients, off the top of my
>head. Here is another e-mail I sent to the group:
>
[snip]
Phil Moody
> In order that credit may be given where credit is due, permit me to
> mention that Mr. Moody is quite right when he mentions in this
> message that he had sent me a copy of this article by Professor
> Sawyer. Let me assure everyone on the list that Stewart Baldwin
> was unaware of my having received this from Mr. Moody and, in
> fact, I had forgotten it myself and have had to search back through
> my records to find that he not only sent me this article but also
> sent me an article by the late Dr. Nora Chadwick which, un-
> fortunately I am unable to locate at the moment.
PLM: Thank you for clearing this up, Jack! If you continue to have
difficulty locating Mrs. H. M. Chadwick's essay; I will gladly send it
again.
> In spite of what Mr. Moody might think, the copy of the article I
> furnished Professor Baldwin was one I had requested and received
> from the publisher of the book in which the article appeared, and
> which they happily supplied me free of charge inasmuch as the
> book was out of print and they were unable to sell me a copy.
PLM: I have no reason to doubt you, Jack; so please accept my apologies for
coming to a hasty conclusion. However, I hope you can appreciate my
perspective. I had already sent you a perfectly legible scan; so how was I
to conclude that you forgot that I even sent the essay to you, and yet you
were still able to recall the publisher and title of the essay, and then go
and order an article you already had? I guess the truth is stranger than
fiction - occasionally:-)
Since there now appears to be two independent copies of the same essay;
let me mention a distinguishing feature that my scan has. On the title page
of my copy, you will find in the lower right hand corner, "Best Regards"
written by Pia Rink, and it would form the hypotenuse of a right triangle.
Along the base, there still remains a portion of the letter "P"; which is
what remains of her signature, after I cropped the scan to reduce the file
size.
Best Wishes,
Phil
royalynx
Note interspersed comments below.
Phil Moody wrote:
>Jack Brown wrote:
>
>>In order that credit may be given where credit is due, permit me to
>>mention that Mr. Moody is quite right when he mentions in this
>>message that he had sent me a copy of this article by Professor
>>Sawyer. Let me assure everyone on the list that Stewart Baldwin
>>was unaware of my having received this from Mr. Moody and, in
>>fact, I had forgotten it myself and have had to search back through
>>my records to find that he not only sent me this article but also
>>sent me an article by the late Dr. Nora Chadwick which, un-
>>fortunately I am unable to locate at the moment.
>>
>
>PLM: Thank you for clearing this up, Jack! If you continue to have
>difficulty locating Mrs. H. M. Chadwick's essay; I will gladly send it
>again.
>
You are right, Phil, the late Dr. Nora Chadwick, is also known as Mrs.
H. Munro Chadwick which, I think only serves to detract from the fact
that she was an excellent historian in her own right, first as Dr. Nora
Kershaw,
and only much later, as Mrs. H. Munro Chadwick. And thank you for
offering
to send another copy of her article. However, although I have also
forgotten
the title of the article, I seem to recall that it wasn't one I really
needed at the
time just as I didn't seem to need the Sawyer article at the time
>
>
>>In spite of what Mr. Moody might think, the copy of the article I
>>furnished Professor Baldwin was one I had requested and received
>>from the publisher of the book in which the article appeared, and
>>which they happily supplied me free of charge inasmuch as the
>>book was out of print and they were unable to sell me a copy.
>>
>
>PLM: I have no reason to doubt you, Jack; so please accept my apologies for
>coming to a hasty conclusion. However, I hope you can appreciate my
>perspective. I had already sent you a perfectly legible scan; so how was I
>to conclude that you forgot that I even sent the essay to you, and yet you
>were still able to recall the publisher and title of the essay, and then go
>and order an article you already had? I guess the truth is stranger than
>fiction - occasionally:-)
>
Your comment is known as "I hear you lying, Jack, but I'll couch my
written comments to not appear to be accusatory" And the simplest way
for me to assist you in understanding some of the basics of doing research,
is to suggest to you to simply go to the URL Dr. Baldwin included in the
informative amendment to his article (which he kindly shared with the group)
and you will arrive forthwith at one of the articles he mentioned -- the one
by Kenneth Cutler, now emeritus professor of History at Purdue
University. When you reach the point where Professor Cutler (he and I
corresponded by email but I don't know him; hence my preference for
referring him by his academic title) where the text reads,
"Interpretation of these
sources by scholars such as Ferdinand Lot,[ 14
<http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#14> ] W. C. Braat,[ 15
<http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#15> ]
Peter Sawyer,[ 16 <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#16> ] and
K. L. Maund [ 17 <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#17> ] to
name a few,[ 18 <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#18> ]and
you then simply arrow down to footnote number 16, which I have copied and
pasted in here:
[16] "Kings and Royal Power," Fra Stamme til Stat i Danmark 2:
Hovdinsesamfund
og Kongemagt, edited P. Mortensen and B. Rasmussen (Højbjerg and Århus,
1991),
p 282-288. [ return <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#16a> ]
And once one decides one really has need for the article (as I felt I had
need for it), I then accessed the catalog at the Library of Congress)
and it was
there that I discovered the name of the publisher. And you see I had
already
received it by snail mail prior to calling the Cutler article URL to the
attention
of Professor Baldwin as I am aware that he is interested in anything
that might
shed some light on these early kings of the Danes.
And this brings me to another point that will be of interest to you.
In one of
your messages a few nights ago you were inquiring about the meaning of BAR
which published Eric Christiansen's translation of Books X through XVI of
the works of Saxo Grammaticus.
The BAR stands for "British Archaeological Review" and here is a library
catalogue entry for this particular work you seek.
Name: Saxo, Grammaticus, d. ca. 1204.
Main Title: Danorum regum heroumque historia : books x-xvi :
the text of the first edition with translation and commentary in three
volumes /
Saxo Grammaticus ; [translation and commentary by] Eric Christiansen.
Uniform Title: [Gesta Danorum. Liber 10-16. English & Latin]
Published/
Created: Oxford, England : B.A.R., 1980-
Related Names:Christiansen, Eric, 1937-
Related Titles: Saxo Grammaticus, Danorum regum heroumque historia.
Saxo Grammaticus, books x-xvi.
Description: v. <1 > : maps, geneal. tables ; 30 cm.
ISBN: 0860540979 (pbk. : v. l)
Incomplete Contents: v. 1. Books x, xi, xii, and xiii.
Notes: Text in English and Latin; English commentary.
Title on cover of v. 1: Saxo Grammaticus, books x-xvi.
includes bibliographical references.
Subjects: Folklore--Scandinavia.
Series: BAR international series ; 84, etc.
Variant Series: BAR international series ; 84-
LC Classif.: DL147 .S2513 1980
Dewey Class #.: 948.9/01 19
However, I will tell you that I feel confident that the English
translation you will appreciate even more is in Saxo Grammaticus,
The History of the Danes Books I-IX, by Hilda Ellis Davidson,
as translated by Peter Fisher, and is readily available through most
good booksellers, both here and abroad, being reasonably priced as well.
Best wishes,
Jack Brown
Phil Moody
> >PLM: Thank you for clearing this up, Jack! If you continue to have
> >difficulty locating Mrs. H. M. Chadwick's essay; I will gladly send it
> >again.
> >
> You are right, Phil, the late Dr. Nora Chadwick, is also known as Mrs.
> H. Munro Chadwick which, I think only serves to detract from the fact
> that she was an excellent historian in her own right, first as Dr. Nora
> Kershaw, and only much later, as Mrs. H. Munro Chadwick. And thank you
for
> offering to send another copy of her article. However, although I have
also
> forgotten the title of the article, I seem to recall that it wasn't one I
really
> needed at the time just as I didn't seem to need the Sawyer article at the
time
PLM: Jack, It was not my intent to belittle Mrs. Chadwick's in any way. I
realize she was a first rate scholar; which is one of the reason I have her
essay. I thought it only fitting that I highlight who her husband was,
because of the work her essay was published in; which is:
"The Early Cultures of North-West Europe, (H. M. Chadwick Memorial Studies),
edited by Sir Cyril Fox and Bruce Dickins, Cambridge, 1950"
So, in due consideration of the fact that her work is in a memorial to her
late husband; I don't believe it is demeaning in any way, to address her as
Mrs. H. M. Chadwick, in this instance. Her essay is called:
"ŞORGERĞR HÖLGABRÚĞR AND THE TROLLA ŞING: A NOTE ON SOURCES"
> >PLM: I have no reason to doubt you, Jack; so please accept my apologies
for
> >coming to a hasty conclusion. However, I hope you can appreciate my
> >perspective. I had already sent you a perfectly legible scan; so how was
I
> >to conclude that you forgot that I even sent the essay to you, and yet
you
> >were still able to recall the publisher and title of the essay, and then
go
> >and order an article you already had? I guess the truth is stranger than
> >fiction - occasionally:-)
> >
> Your comment is known as "I hear you lying, Jack, but I'll couch my
> written comments to not appear to be accusatory"
PLM: I meant exactly what I said, Jack, and there is no truth in your
accusation. It is true that I find it incredible that you could so
completely obliterate from your mind, the fact that you already had Peter
Sawyer's essay, to the point of actually ordering it from the publisher.
Just because I believe that the facts of the situation are suitable material
for "Ripley's Believe it or Not"; this is in no way implies that you are
lying. In case you have not noticed, Jack; I do not offer apologies for
anything I say in this forum, unless I truly believe I'm mistaken; so you
can trust that I do believe you.
> And this brings me to another point that will be of interest to you.
> In one of your messages a few nights ago you were inquiring about the
meaning of BAR
> which published Eric Christiansen's translation of Books X through XVI of
> the works of Saxo Grammaticus.
>
> The BAR stands for "British Archaeological Review" and here is a library
> catalogue entry for this particular work you seek.
PLM: Thanks a million for this info, Jack; it is very thoughtful of you! I
appreciate Saxo's work, but most of the first nine books are considered
legendary, in this forum; so I believe his later work will be more reliable,
it being contemporary to Saxo's own time. I have read the online version of
Saxo's first nine books; so I have a good idea of what he says, but I don't
know what he has written in books X-XVI, and this is a deficit in my
understanding of Saxo, I NEED to rectify. I really appreciate you locating
this work for me, Jack!