Ursula von der Leyen's ancestry

[Johnny Brananas]

Interestingly, President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen has a significant amount of American ancestry:

"Von der Leyen's father's grandparents were the cotton merchant Carl Albrecht (1875–1952) and Mary Ladson Robertson (1883–1960), an American who descended from a planter family in Charleston, South Carolina. Her American ancestors played a significant role in the British colonization of the Americas, and she descends from many of the first English settlers of Carolina, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Barbados, and from numerous colonial governors. Among her ancestors were Carolina governors John Yeamans, James Moore, Robert Gibbes, Thomas Smith and Joseph Blake, Pennsylvania deputy governor Samuel Carpenter, and the American revolutionary and lieutenant governor of South Carolina James Ladson."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen

Does anybody know of royal descents? I think Governor Robt. Gibbes of SC is thought to have an RD line (theorized by Brice Claggett, most of whose long, laborious work will now apparently never see the light of print).

Through the Albrecht family, Ursula is said to be a descendant of "Baron Johann Ludwig von Knoop, one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the 19th century Russian Empire."

[Johnny Brananas]

"As an economics student at the London School of Economics in the late 1970s, she lived under the name Rose Ladson, the family name of her American great-grandmother from Charleston, South Carolina."

Why was there the need to live under another name? Just her whim, perhaps?

[Will Johnson]

Typically in cases like this I'm seen there was either a question about exactly who her father *was* at all, or some very bad blood. The idea that she reached all the way back to her great-grandmother is odd. Perhaps her father was a notorious outlaw.

[Will Johnson]

On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 11:48:54 AM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 8:47:39 AM UTC-8, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > > Through the Albrecht family, Ursula is said to be a descendant of "Baron Johann Ludwig von Knoop, one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the 19th century Russian Empire."
> > "As an economics student at the London School of Economics in the late 1970s, she lived under the name Rose Ladson, the family name of her American great-grandmother from Charleston, South Carolina."
> >
> > Why was there the need to live under another name? Just her whim, perhaps?

This article gives a hint, that her paternal grandfather might have been a bit nutty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Albrecht_(psychologist)

[Johnny Brananas]

Maybe the nuttiness resurfaced, and she decided to call herself "Rose Ladson."

[Johnny Brananas]

Oh, I guess this is a more believable explanation:

"One day he [Erich Stromeyer] informed them that his brother-in-law was a prominent politician in Germany and that the Baader-Meinhof gang were threatening to kidnap and murder his daughter. The situation was rather serious: would the Rostowskis mind if she moved in with him, to study at the LSE, until the crisis passed?

She moved in with an alias: Rose Ladson. 'She had this puppy fat,' Rostowski remembers. 'She was very bouncy, very nice and always out.' Her real name was Ursula Gertrud Albrecht, and the Rostowskis quickly noticed she liked staying out late, only coming back to Philbeach Gardens after one o’clock in the morning. 'But when she came back she never bothered to close the front door properly. I thought this slightly lighthearted, given people were supposedly trying to kidnap and kill her.'”

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/october-2020/the-rise-of-mrs-europe/

[Johnny Brananas]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/03/europes-powerful-woman-lived-london-year-alias-escape-baader/

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Robertson-20063

If this chart is accurate, Ursula von der Leydon's great-grandmother Mary Ladson (Robertson) Albrecht has royal descents through her great-great-grandmother Ann (Walthall) Robertson via Christopher Branch and Mary Addie of Virginia and via Col. Thomas Ligon (Lygon) and Mary Harris of Virginia and through her great-great-grandfather Joseph Moseley via Thomas Ligon (Lygon) and Mary Harris (twice) and John Batte and Martha Mallory of Virginia.

[Johnny Brananas]

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 3:14:39 PM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Robertson-20063
>
> If this chart is accurate, Ursula von der Leydon's great-grandmother Mary Ladson (Robertson) Albrecht has royal descents through her great-great-grandmother Ann (Walthall) Robertson via Christopher Branch and Mary Addie of Virginia and via Col. Thomas Ligon (Lygon) and Mary Harris of Virginia and through her great-great-grandfather Joseph Moseley via Thomas Ligon (Lygon) and Mary Harris (twice) and John Batte and Martha Mallory of Virginia.

With three Lygon/ Ligon lines, she would be of great interest to Gary Boyd Roberts ...

[Olivier]

Le mardi 15 mars 2022 à 22:25:54 UTC+1, ravinma...@yahoo.com a écrit :
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 3:14:39 PM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Robertson-20063

Ursula Albrecht 1958

Génération 2

Sosa 2 - Ernst Albrecht 1930-2014

Génération 3

Sosa 4 - Carl Albrecht 1902-1965

Génération 4

Sosa 9 - Mary Ladson Robertson 1883-1960

Génération 5

Sosa 18 - Edward Twells Robertson 1856-1914

Génération 6

Sosa 36 - Lewis Ford Robertson 1825-1904

Génération 7

Sosa 72 - William Robertson 1786-1859
Sosa 73 - Pamela Moseley 1789-1837

Génération 8

Sosa 145 - Mary Ann Walthall 1744-1803
Sosa 146 - Joseph Moseley 1764-1835

Génération 9

Sosa 291 - Elizabeth Walthall 1722
Sosa 292 - Matthew Moseley
Sosa 293 - Martha Ligon

Génération 10

Sosa 583 - Phebe Ligon 1698-1752
Sosa 584 - William Moseley 1692-1779
Sosa 586 - Joseph Ligon †1752

Génération 11

Sosa 1 166 - Thomas Ligon †1705
Sosa 1 169 - Sarah Hancock †1728
Sosa 1 172 - William Ligon †1764
Sosa 1 173 - Elizabeth Batte

Génération 12

Sosa 2 332 - William Ligon 1653
Sosa 2 339 - Johanna Ligon †1689
Sosa 2 346 - Henry Batte 1642-1703

Génération 13

Sosa 4 664 - Thomas Ligon /1624
Sosa 4 692 - John Batte †1653

Génération 14

Sosa 9 328 - Thomas Ligon †/1626
Sosa 9 385 - Elizabeth Parry 1582-1633

Génération 15

Sosa 18 656 - Thomas Lygon †1603
Sosa 18 770 - Roger Parry †1634

Génération 16

Sosa 37 312 - William Lygon 1512-1567
Sosa 37 313 - Eleanor Dennis 1508-1579
Sosa 37 541 - Isabel Vaughan

Génération 17

Sosa 74 624 - Richard Lygon 1490-1556
Sosa 74 627 - Anne Berkeley 1494-1586
Sosa 75 083 - Elizabeth Croft

Génération 18

Sosa 149 249 - Anne Beauchamp †1534
Sosa 149 254 - Maurice de, Baron Berkeley 1441-1506
Sosa 150 166 - Edward Croft 1465-1541

Génération 19

Sosa 298 498 - Richard Beauchamp, Lord Beauchamp of Powyke †1502
Sosa 298 508 - James de, Baron Berkeley ca 1394-1463
Sosa 298 509 - Isabel Mowbray ca 1396-1452
Sosa 300 333 - Eleanor Cornewall 1430-1519

Génération 20

Sosa 596 997 - Margaret Ferrers †1487
Sosa 597 016 - James de Berkeley ca 1355-1404
Sosa 597 018 - Thomas Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk 1366-1399
Sosa 597 019 - Elizabeth Fitzalan 1366-1425
Sosa 600 667 - Elizabeth Barre 1414-1468

Génération 21

Sosa 1 193 994 - Edmund Ferrers, Baron Ferrers of Chartley †1435/1436
Sosa 1 194 033 - Elizabeth Le Despencer 1322-1389
Sosa 1 194 037 - Elizabeth Segrave 1338-/1368
Sosa 1 194 039 - Elisabeth de Bohun ca 1350-1385
Sosa 1 201 335 - Alice Talbot 1393-1436

Génération 22

Sosa 2 387 988 - Robert Ferrers, Baron Ferrers of Chartley †1412/1413
Sosa 2 387 989 - Margaret Le Despencer †1415
Sosa 2 388 067 - Eleanor de Clare /1292-1337
Sosa 2 388 075 - Margaret Plantagenêt ca 1322-1399
Sosa 2 388 078 - William de Bohun, Earl of Northampton ca 1309-1360
Sosa 2 402 670 - Richard, baron Talbot 1361-1396

Génération 23

Sosa 4 775 977 - Elizabeth Stafford 1337-1375/1376
Sosa 4 775 978 - Edward Le Despencer, Lord Spencer 1335-1375
Sosa 4 776 135 - Joan of Acre, Princess of England 1272-1307
Sosa 4 776 150 - Thomas of Brotherton, Duke of Norfolk 1300-1338
Sosa 4 776 157 - Elizabeth Plantagenêt 1282-1316
Sosa 4 805 341 - Petronilla Butler 1332-1387

Génération 24

Sosa 9 551 955 - Margaret de, Baroness Audley ca 1318-1348
Sosa 9 551 956 - Edward Le Despencer 1310-1342
Sosa 9 552 270 - Edward I Longshanks, King of England 1239-1307
Sosa 9 610 683 - Eleanor de Bohun 1304-1363

Génération 25

Sosa 19 103 911 - Margaret de Clare 1293-1342

[Will Johnson]

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 6:51:16 AM UTC-7, Olivier wrote:
> Le mardi 15 mars 2022 à 22:25:54 UTC+1, ravinma...@yahoo.com a écrit :
> > On T

>

> Génération 14
>
> Sosa 9 328 - Thomas Ligon †/1626
> Sosa 9 385 - Elizabeth Parry 1582-1633
>
> Génération 15
>
> Sosa 18 656 - Thomas Lygon †1603
> Sosa 18 770 - Roger Parry †1634
>
> Génération 16
>
> Sosa 37 312 - William Lygon 1512-1567
> Sosa 37 313 - Eleanor Dennis 1508-1579
> Sosa 37 541 - Isabel Vaughan
>

>

That Thomas Lygon of Elliston Gloucs was the son of
William Lygon by Eleanor Dennis

and that this Thomas married Frances Dennis daughter of Hugh of Pucklechurch Gloucs.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ak45AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA509&dq=lygon+foliot&lr=&as_brr=3

[Will Johnson]

I had not previously noticed this connection before
It however gives Uma Thurman an Edward III descent that I had not previously found

[Will Johnson]

However what is the specific evidence that Thomas Ligon by Mary Harris, had a son named William?

[Olivier]

Le vendredi 18 mars 2022 à 15:54:01 UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com a écrit :
> However what is the specific evidence that Thomas Ligon by Mary Harris, had a son named William?

Génération 13

Sosa 4 665 - Mary Harris 1625-1704

Génération 14

Sosa 9 330 - Thomas Harris 1585-1658

Génération 15

Sosa 18 660 - William Harris 1556-1616

Génération 16

Sosa 37 320 - Arthur Harris 1530-1597

Génération 17

Sosa 74 640 - William Harris ca 1490-1556

Génération 18

Sosa 149 281 - Joanna Percy 1478-1547

Génération 19

Sosa 298 562 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1449-1489

Génération 20

Sosa 597 124 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1421-1461

Génération 21

Sosa 1 194 248 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1393-1455
Sosa 1 194 249 - Eleanor Nevill 1403-1472

Génération 22

Sosa 2 388 497 - Elizabeth Mortimer 1371-1417
Sosa 2 388 499 - Joan Beaufort ca 1379-1440

Génération 23

Sosa 4 776 995 - Philippa Plantagenêt 1355-1382
Sosa 4 776 998 - John of Gaunt Plantagenêt, Duke of Lancaster 1340-1399

Génération 24

Sosa 9 553 990 - Lionel of Antwerp Plantagenêt, Duke of Clarence 1338-1368
Sosa 9 553 996 - Edward III of Windsor Plantagenêt, King of England 1312-1377

[Will Johnson]

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 9:15:49 AM UTC-7, Olivier wrote:
> Le vendredi 18 mars 2022 à 15:54:01 UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > However what is the specific evidence that Thomas Ligon by Mary Harris, had a son named William?
> Génération 13
>
> Sosa 4 665 - Mary Harris 1625-1704
>
> Génération 14
>
> Sosa 9 330 - Thomas Harris 1585-1658
>
> Génération 15
>
> Sosa 18 660 - William Harris 1556-1616
>

The only sources given for Mary Harris' parents in Geni, are other people's trees.
So not a good start there.


>

[Will Johnson]

I'm not sure where you obtained the guess that Thomas Harris of Curls; Captain, was the son of William Harris the well known of that name of Cricksea but it's a false connection.

There are a *vast sea* of online trees that make this connection because they don't bother at all, to actually read or quote any sources, merely accepting names-the-same links as true.

William Harris of Creeksea did have a son named Thomas.
That son died in 1617 never having set foot in Virginia.
This has been known since at least 1910 and yet hundreds of online trees still connect them.

[Brad Verity]

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 7:46:11 AM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> > That Thomas Lygon of Elliston Gloucs was the son of
> > William Lygon by Eleanor Dennis
> >
> > and that this Thomas married Frances Dennis daughter of Hugh of Pucklechurch Gloucs.
> >
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=ak45AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA509&dq=lygon+foliot&lr=&as_brr=3
> I had not previously noticed this connection before
> It however gives Uma Thurman an Edward III descent that I had not previously found

Frances Dennys (d. 1625), wife of Thomas Lygon of Elkstone, Gloucestershire, has a *possible* descent from Edward III, if Joan Stradling, the first wife of Maurice Dennys of Siston (c.1410-aft.1466), was the daughter of Sir Edward Stradling and Jane, illegitimate daughter of Cardinal Beaufort.

Frances Dennys has definite descents from Edward I thru her mother, Katherine (Trye) Dennys (d. 1583), a great-great-granddaughter of James, 1st Lord Berkeley (c.1394-1463) & Lady Isabel Mowbray (c.1396-1452).

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 7:54:01 AM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> However what is the specific evidence that Thomas Ligon by Mary Harris, had a son named William?

Will, you can pursue the sources listed on the Wikitree page for Maj. William Ligon of Henrico County (d. 1689), which includes his will:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ligon-77

The 1947 book 'The Ligon Family and Connections' Volume 1 by William D. Ligon Jr., is another good source, particularly Chapter XV 'Colonel Thomas Ligon's Children'. It can be found online here:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89062355722&view=1up&seq=369&skin=2021

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 9:15:49 AM UTC-7, Olivier wrote:

> Génération 17
> Sosa 74 640 - William Harris ca 1490-1556
>
> Génération 18
> Sosa 149 281 - Joanna Percy 1478-1547
>
> Génération 19
> Sosa 298 562 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1449-1489

There is no evidence that Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland, had a daughter Joanna Percy, wife of (Arthur) Harris. Nor would a lady born in 1478 be the mother of a son born about 1490, as you have above, Olivier.

It was 17th-century Windsor Herald Augustine Vincent who made the claim that Joan, wife of Arthur Harris, was the daughter of Sir Thomas Percy and Eleanor Harbottle. From a post I made to my blog in 2010 'Who Was Dame Maud (née Percy) Ryther?':
"The only children of Sir Thomas Percy (d. 2 June 1537) and Eleanor Harbottle (d. 1567) that can be confirmed in contemporary records are their sons Thomas (born 10 June 1528, eventual 7th Earl of Northumberland), Henry (born about 1532, eventual 8th Earl of Northumberland), and daughter Mary (born about 1531, said to be buried 7 February 1598, age 66, married Francis Slingsby of Scriven, Yorkshire), who are mentioned in the wills of their grandmother Katherine (Spencer), Countess of Northumberland (dated 14 October 1542) and their stepfather Sir Richard Holland of Denton, Lancashire (dated 27 March 1548). The Harris pedigree in the 1558 Visitation of Essex gives the wife of 'Arthur Harris of Prickwell in Sussex' as 'Joane', daughter of Sir Thomas Percy and Eleanor Harbottle, but only the three children Thomas, Henry and Mary are given to the couple in the Percy pedigree in the 1563 Visitation of Yorkshire. The Herald Vincent also assigns them the daughter Joan wife of Arthur Harris in addition to Mary and to Katherine wife of Ralph Ryther. It would appear from 16th-century evidence however that Mary was the only surviving daughter of Sir Thomas Percy and Eleanor Harbottle who went on to marry."
https://royaldescent.blogspot.com/2010/02/ryther-1-who-was-maud-percy-dame-ryther.html

Hope this helps.

Cheers, ----Brad