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Re: Edward Morgan of Gwynedd - his fake royal line
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facts sorealitsunbelievalbe
May 1, 2021, 1:51:52 PM5/1/21
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On Sunday, July 19, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Stewart Baldwin wrote:
> In anticipation of the proposed APSG website, which will include
> claimed but disproven royal descents of (alleged) American gateway
> ancestors, I have decided that, as I find the time, I will post
> information about some of the lines for which I have disproof, or for
> which I can identify a lapse in the documentation, in those cases
> which I have not seen published before. Additions and/or corrections
> are welcome.
> The example I am posting today is pretty much a no-brainer, since I
> figure that most experienced genealogists who have seen this claim
> have had a reaction someting like "Sure, and tell me another fairy
> tale." Edward Morgan of Gwynedd, PA, an early Quaker immigrant to
> PA, and maternal grandfather of the famous Daniel Boone, has been
> said on numerous occasion to have been a son of the baronet Sir James
> Morgan, of the Morgans of Llantarnum. I have done a great deal of
> research on the first three generations of descendants of Edward
> Morgan (for which I have an approximately 50 page very rough draft
> which has been waiting for a few years for me to find the time to put
> it in presentable form), and I have had so many people ask me in
> correspondence about this alleged royal ancestry that I once went
> through the trouble of assembling documentation for the actual
> disproof (which will probably occupy no more than a paragraph of my
> finished Morgan paper, whenever that happens). Since the claim is so
> suspicious in itself, I don't know if anyone else had ever gone to
> the trouble to do this before I did.
> The earliest known publication to make the claim (and the apparent
> ultimate source of all such claims) was "The History of the Family of
> Morgan, from the year 1089 to Present Times" by James Appleton Morgan
> (New York, 1902?, a very poor work which commits numerous blunders
> other than the ones mentioned here), on pp. 162-170. On p. 165, Sir
> James Morgan, "4th Baronet of Llantarnum" is stated to have md. 1st
> Ann Hopton Jones, widow, leaving son Edward (d. in infancy) and 2nd
> Lady Alice Hopton of Canon Frome (cousin of 1st wife), leaving
> daughter Sarah, and sons William (d. in infancy) and Edward
> (allegedly the PA immigrant Edward Morgan of Gwynedd). The
> information on these marriages was apparently derived from
> "Historical and Genealogical Memoirs of the Morgan Family as
> represented in the Peerage of England by the Right Hon. the Baron
> Tredegar", compiled and edited by G. Blacker Morgan (London, 1891),
> which, on p. 112, says that is is "stated that" (citing Harleian MS.
> 4181, fol. 247, with the remark that it is not entirely reliable)
> James md. 1st, Anne, daughter of Judge Hopton of Canon Frome, and
> relict of Nicholas Jones, and that in the year 1715, James Morgan was
> married to Alice, widow of Nicholas Jones. There is obviously some
> confusion here, but the primary records clear matters up. Nicholas
> Jones married Alice Hopton at Canon Frome on 17 Apr 1683 (parish
> registers of Canon Frome, co. Hereford), and then the Catholic
> registers of Abergavenny show the marriage on 27 Oct 1695 of "Jacobus
> Morgan, miles et Barrt. & Allicia Jones" (Catholic Record Society,
> Miscellanea XIV, London 1927, which records also show the death on 30
> Apr 1718 of Sir James Morgan, Baronet). Thus, it is clear that the
> wife "Anne" Hopton never existed (since Nicholas Jones clearly did
> not have two widows), but was a mistake for "Alice", and that Sir
> James Morgan was apparently married only once, in 1695, to Alice
> (Hopton) Jones, widow. Since Edward Morgan of Gwynedd was already an
> adult in America well before 1695 (having already appeared on the
> Blackwell Rent Roll in the 1680's, and having children with recorded
> birthdates as early as 1691), the alleged father-son relationship
> between Sir James Morgan and Edward Morgan of Gwynedd is
> chronologically impossible. In order to "save" the line, some later
> authors claiming this line have tried to get rid of the chronological
> impossibility by transferred Edward from Alice to the nonexistent
> first wife Anne Hopton, but there is no evidence that James Morgan
> ever had a wife other than Alice (Hopton) Jones. The fact that the
> Baronetcy became extinct after the death of James is further evidence
> that he died without legitimate male issue.
> Good accounts of the Morgans of Llantarnum can be found in Cockayne's
> "Complete Baronetage" vol. 2, p. 171, and Bradney's History of
> Monmouthshire, vol. 1, part 2, pp. 464-7. Neither mentions any issue
> for Sir James Morgan.
> Stewart Baldwin
> In anticipation of the proposed APSG website, which will include
> claimed but disproven royal descents of (alleged) American gateway
> ancestors, I have decided that, as I find the time, I will post
> information about some of the lines for which I have disproof, or for
> which I can identify a lapse in the documentation, in those cases
> which I have not seen published before. Additions and/or corrections
> are welcome.
> The example I am posting today is pretty much a no-brainer, since I
> figure that most experienced genealogists who have seen this claim
> have had a reaction someting like "Sure, and tell me another fairy
> tale." Edward Morgan of Gwynedd, PA, an early Quaker immigrant to
> PA, and maternal grandfather of the famous Daniel Boone, has been
> said on numerous occasion to have been a son of the baronet Sir James
> Morgan, of the Morgans of Llantarnum. I have done a great deal of
> research on the first three generations of descendants of Edward
> Morgan (for which I have an approximately 50 page very rough draft
> which has been waiting for a few years for me to find the time to put
> it in presentable form), and I have had so many people ask me in
> correspondence about this alleged royal ancestry that I once went
> through the trouble of assembling documentation for the actual
> disproof (which will probably occupy no more than a paragraph of my
> finished Morgan paper, whenever that happens). Since the claim is so
> suspicious in itself, I don't know if anyone else had ever gone to
> the trouble to do this before I did.
> The earliest known publication to make the claim (and the apparent
> ultimate source of all such claims) was "The History of the Family of
> Morgan, from the year 1089 to Present Times" by James Appleton Morgan
> (New York, 1902?, a very poor work which commits numerous blunders
> other than the ones mentioned here), on pp. 162-170. On p. 165, Sir
> James Morgan, "4th Baronet of Llantarnum" is stated to have md. 1st
> Ann Hopton Jones, widow, leaving son Edward (d. in infancy) and 2nd
> Lady Alice Hopton of Canon Frome (cousin of 1st wife), leaving
> daughter Sarah, and sons William (d. in infancy) and Edward
> (allegedly the PA immigrant Edward Morgan of Gwynedd). The
> information on these marriages was apparently derived from
> "Historical and Genealogical Memoirs of the Morgan Family as
> represented in the Peerage of England by the Right Hon. the Baron
> Tredegar", compiled and edited by G. Blacker Morgan (London, 1891),
> which, on p. 112, says that is is "stated that" (citing Harleian MS.
> 4181, fol. 247, with the remark that it is not entirely reliable)
> James md. 1st, Anne, daughter of Judge Hopton of Canon Frome, and
> relict of Nicholas Jones, and that in the year 1715, James Morgan was
> married to Alice, widow of Nicholas Jones. There is obviously some
> confusion here, but the primary records clear matters up. Nicholas
> Jones married Alice Hopton at Canon Frome on 17 Apr 1683 (parish
> registers of Canon Frome, co. Hereford), and then the Catholic
> registers of Abergavenny show the marriage on 27 Oct 1695 of "Jacobus
> Morgan, miles et Barrt. & Allicia Jones" (Catholic Record Society,
> Miscellanea XIV, London 1927, which records also show the death on 30
> Apr 1718 of Sir James Morgan, Baronet). Thus, it is clear that the
> wife "Anne" Hopton never existed (since Nicholas Jones clearly did
> not have two widows), but was a mistake for "Alice", and that Sir
> James Morgan was apparently married only once, in 1695, to Alice
> (Hopton) Jones, widow. Since Edward Morgan of Gwynedd was already an
> adult in America well before 1695 (having already appeared on the
> Blackwell Rent Roll in the 1680's, and having children with recorded
> birthdates as early as 1691), the alleged father-son relationship
> between Sir James Morgan and Edward Morgan of Gwynedd is
> chronologically impossible. In order to "save" the line, some later
> authors claiming this line have tried to get rid of the chronological
> impossibility by transferred Edward from Alice to the nonexistent
> first wife Anne Hopton, but there is no evidence that James Morgan
> ever had a wife other than Alice (Hopton) Jones. The fact that the
> Baronetcy became extinct after the death of James is further evidence
> that he died without legitimate male issue.
> Good accounts of the Morgans of Llantarnum can be found in Cockayne's
> "Complete Baronetage" vol. 2, p. 171, and Bradney's History of
> Monmouthshire, vol. 1, part 2, pp. 464-7. Neither mentions any issue
> for Sir James Morgan.
> Stewart Baldwin
facts sorealitsunbelievalbe
May 1, 2021, 2:03:49 PM5/1/21
to
National Library of Wales Dictionary of Welsh Biography
Philip Yorke lived at Erddig, a famous old home in North Wales now owned by the National Trust. His book The Royal Tribes of Wales was published in 1799, with a later edition adding chapters on the fifteen noble families of North Wales.
The photograph below shows a scene from the investiture of Prince Charles as Prince of Wales, 1st July 1969. On the walls of the tower to the left are shown the coats of arms of six old kingdoms of Wales including the ‘Five Royal Tribes’
facts sorealitsunbelievalbe
May 1, 2021, 2:12:37 PM5/1/21
to
P.S. *unbelievable
You are drastically lacking in your knowledge and research about my Morgan family lineage, do more i0depth research before publishing such raging false information Steward Baldwin.
There are several branches of my Royal Morgan bloodline, Macen, Tredegar, Pencoed (Pencyod, the one that migrated to Jamaica (Sir Edward Morgan, Henry Morgan), J. P. Morgan, this branch migrated to the USA, we have branches that migrated to Canada, as well.
You are drastically lacking in your knowledge and research about my Morgan family lineage, do more i0depth research before publishing such raging false information Steward Baldwin.
There are several branches of my Royal Morgan bloodline, Macen, Tredegar, Pencoed (Pencyod, the one that migrated to Jamaica (Sir Edward Morgan, Henry Morgan), J. P. Morgan, this branch migrated to the USA, we have branches that migrated to Canada, as well.
pj.ev...@gmail.com
May 1, 2021, 2:28:47 PM5/1/21
to
> > Good accounts of the Morgans of Llantarnum can be found in Cockayne's
> > "Complete Baronetage" vol. 2, p. 171, and Bradney's History of
> > Monmouthshire, vol. 1, part 2, pp. 464-7. Neither mentions any issue
> > for Sir James Morgan.
> > Stewart Baldwin
taf
May 1, 2021, 8:12:51 PM5/1/21
to
On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 11:28:47 AM UTC-7, pj.ev...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 11:12:37 AM UTC-7, petriema...@gmail.com wrote:
> > P.S. *unbelievable
> >
> > You are drastically lacking in your knowledge and research about my Morgan family lineage, do more i0depth research before publishing such raging false information Steward Baldwin.
> >
> > There are several branches of my Royal Morgan bloodline, Macen, Tredegar, Pencoed (Pencyod, the one that migrated to Jamaica (Sir Edward Morgan, Henry Morgan), J. P. Morgan, this branch migrated to the USA, we have branches that migrated to Canada, as well.
> On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 11:12:37 AM UTC-7, petriema...@gmail.com wrote:
> > P.S. *unbelievable
> >
> > You are drastically lacking in your knowledge and research about my Morgan family lineage, do more i0depth research before publishing such raging false information Steward Baldwin.
> >
> > There are several branches of my Royal Morgan bloodline, Macen, Tredegar, Pencoed (Pencyod, the one that migrated to Jamaica (Sir Edward Morgan, Henry Morgan), J. P. Morgan, this branch migrated to the USA, we have branches that migrated to Canada, as well.
> For your edification, Stewart Baldwin is an expert genealogist, and you could learn a lot from reading his posts and following his work.
A note for the original respondent. Stewart Baldwin is an expert, but experts can be wrong. However, a more productive way of claiming an expert is wrong is to present the actual evidence of their error, in this case, a documented lineage that demonstrates that the royal descent is authentic, rather than just a diatribe that amounts to little more than 'how dare you challenge my family legends'. If this is a well-founded royal lineage, it shouldn't be too much of a challenge to present it here.
taf
Stewart Baldwin
May 5, 2021, 4:15:57 PM5/5/21
to
By the way, the long article I wrote about the family of Edward Morgan appeared in four parts around two decades ago in “The Family of Edward^1 Morgan of Pennsylvania: Daniel Boone’s Maternal Kin,” The Genealogist 15 (2001): 104–28, 172–95; 16 (2002): 71–92, 234–54, of which the matter of his still unknown parentage occupies only a small part of the first installment. I wonder if the responder has ever even read this article.
By the way, if someone did manage to find clear proof of the parentage of Edward Morgan of Gwynedd which would lead to a royal line for him, then, as a descendant, I would be pleased to see it, but only if it were well documented. I already have too many claimed-but-disproven "royal lines" cluttering my files
Stewart Baldwin
facts sorealitsunbelievalbe
May 8, 2021, 6:13:25 PM5/8/21
to
A genealogical survey of the peerage of Britain as well as the royal families of Europe
Person Page - 44294
Iestyn ab Gwrgant, King of Morgannwg1(HM King Justin (Iestyn) Morgan (aka Morgannwg)
M, #442935
Last Edited=22 Jul 2010
Iestyn ab Gwrgant, King of Morgannwg is the son of Gwrgant ab Ithel.1
He gained the title of King of Morgannwg.
Citations
[S2431] Philip Beddows, "re: Goldstone Family," e-mail message to Darryl Roger Lundy, 18 September 2007 - 16 February 2011. Hereinafter cited as "re: Goldstone Family."
https://thepeerage.com/p44294.htm#i442935
When John Edward Morgan Sr was born in 1660, in Mold, Flintshire, Wales, United Kingdom, his father, Sir James Morgan, 4th Baronet of Llantarnam, was 17 and his mother, Lady Alice Hopton, was 15. He had at least 10 sons and 7 daughters with Elizabeth Margaret Jarman. He lived in Pennsylvania, British Colonial America in 1708.
Spouse: Elizabeth Margaret Jarman
John Edward Morgan Sr (1660–1736) • FamilySearch
ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L1WH-4BW/john-edward-morgan-sr-1660-1736
Sir James Morgan, 4th Baronet of Llantarnam
https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-James-Morgan-4th...
Jul 08, 2020 · The Baronet title fell to his son Sir Edward Morgan III., 3rd Baronet of Llantarnam until his death, he was without male heirs and the Baronet title then went to his uncle: Sir James Morgan., 4th Baronet of Llantarnam, James was the younger son of Sir Edward Morgan., 1st Baronet of Llantarnam and was the last Baronet of Llantarnam, as his surviving heirs immigrated to America.[1]
Children: Thomas Morgan
Parents: Frances Morgan, Sir Edward Morgan, 1st Baronet, Mary Dorothy Englefield
Edward Morgan Sr. : Family tree by John William JONES ...
https://gw.geneanet.org/jwj424?lang=en&n=morgan&oc=0&p=edward
Edward Morgan, son of Sir James Morgan of Llantarnam, Wales, brought his wife Elizabeth to America in 1683. In Philadelphia they became members of the Society of Friends at the Haverford-Radnor-Merion Meeting, later acquired the house-site and some 800 acres, and became the first settlers in the Upper Welsh tract beyond Gwynedd.
James Morgan Sir : Family tree by John William JONES ...
https://gw.geneanet.org/jwj424?lang=en&n=morgan+sir&oc=0&p=james
Edward Sr. Morgan 1670-1736; Sarah Morgan ca 1672-1749; William Morgan 1674-George Morgan ca 1676- Siblings. Dorothy Morgan ca 1630-Edward Jr Morgan ca 1633-1679; Frances Morgan ca 1636-Henry Morgan, Sir ca 1638-1688; James Morgan Sir, Sir 1643-1718; William Morgan, Sir Knight ca 1648-ca 1680 Half-siblings
Sir James Morgan married Alice Hopton and had JOHN EDWARD Morgan, Sr.
John Edward Morgan was the father of Sarah Morgan-Boone (Daniel Boone's mother).
Sarah Boone (Morgan) (1700 - 1777) - Genealogy
www.geni.com › people › Sarah-Boone
Sarah Morgan Boone Birth: 1701. Berks County. Pennsylvania, USA . Death: Jan. 1, 1777. Mocksville. Davie County. North Carolina, USA . Note: Mother of Daniel Boone famous pioneer. Sarah Morgan was the daughter of John Edward Morgan Sr. & Margaret Elizabeth Jarman; she was born in Exeter, Berks Co., PA. She died near Mocksville, (Rowan) Davie Co., NC.
Sarah married Squire Boone (buried at Joppa Cem.) on 23 Sept 1720 at the Gwynedd Meeting House in Owyne, Berks Co., PA. See: Squire Boone's Grave for the names of their children.(Gwynedd Church)
READ THIS BOOK:
Daniel Boone: His Own Story: His Own Story
Book by Daniel Boone
First published in the early 1800s, this true-life account set the record straight on the mythic Daniel Boone and established him as an American hero.
Daniel Boone was an American pioneer and frontiersman whose exploits made him one of the first folk heroes of the United States.
Born: November 2, 1734, Daniel Boone Homestead
Died: September 26, 1820, Daniel Boone Home
Spouse: Rebecca Boone (m 1756 - 1820), Rebecca Bryan (m 1756 - 1813)
Children: Nathan Boone
Parents: Squire Boone Sr., Sarah Morgan
Here are some recorded, researched documentation with my Morgan family origin, early history.
I am swamped would need to get that to you at a later date.
James MORGAN
Born: Monmouths. abt. 1643 Died: 1718 Gloucesters.
Jamie's 9-Great Grandfather.
Wife/Partner: Alice HOPTON
Child: Edward MORGAN
________ ________ ________ ________ _______ _______ _______ _______ ______ _____ _____
-- John (Sir; of Tredegar) MORGAN + ==&=> [ 255 ,WHa,R,&]
-. Thomas MORGAN (1476? - 1538+)
| Thomas (Sir; of Pencoed) MORGAN + ==&=> [ 255 ,WHa,Rv,&]
-- Jonet MATHEW + ==&=> [ 255 ,WHa,Rv,&]
/ -- John MORGAN (Monmouths., Wales 1519? - ?)
| \ / -- Roger (III; of Porthaml) VAUGHAN + ==&=> [ 255 ,WHa,Rv,&]
| \ -- prob. Elizabeth (Elspeth) VAUGHAN
| \ -- Jane (Joan) WHITNEY + ==&=> [ 255 ,eWH,R,&]
/ | or: poss. Eleanor SOMERSET
/ -- William MORGAN (? - 1592)
| \ / -- Richard GWYNN (ap LLEWELLYN) + ==&=> [ 255 ,WH,R,&]
| | / -- Lewis GWYN (Cardiff ? - 1521)
| | / \ -- Crisly (Joan) verch JEVAN + ====> [ 3]
/ \ -- Elizabeth GWYN
/ -- Edward MORGAN (? - 1653?)
| \ | OR: Edward MORGAN + ====> [ 255 ,e,&]
| | / -- Henry (Sir) SOMERSET + &&&> [ 255 ,E,TX,&]
| | / -- William (K.G.) SOMERSET (1527? - 1589)
| | / \ -- Elizabeth BROWNE + &&&> [ 255 ,E,TX,&]
| | / -- Edward (K.G.) SOMERSET (1550? - 1628)
| | | \ / -- Edward (1st Lord) NORTH + ==&=> [ 255 ,WHa,RvT,&]
| | | \ -- Christian NORTH (? - 1564+)
| | | \ -- Alice SQUIRE + ====> [ 1]
| | / | OR: poss. Alianore SQUIRE + ====> [ 6]
| \ -- Frances (Lady) SOMERSET
| \ / -- George (K.B.; Lord of) HASTINGS + &&&> [ 255 ,E,TX,&]
| | / -- Francis (II; K.G.) HASTINGS (1514 - 1561)
| | / \ -- Anne (Lady of Buckingham) STAFFORD + &&&> [ 255 ,E,TX,&]
| \ -- Elizabeth (Lady) HASTINGS (1546 - 1621)
| \ / -- Henry (K.B.; de la) POLE + &&&> [ 255 ,E,TMX,&]
| \ -- Katherine (de la) POLE (1511 - 1576)
/ \ -- Jane NEVILLE + &&&> [ 255 ,E,TX,&]
- James MORGAN
\
\ - Frances MORGAN
| Mary Dorothy ENGLEFIELD + &&&> [ 255 ,E,TMX,&]
His Great Grandchildren: Daniel BOONE ; Elizabeth BOONE ; Mary BOONE ; John Morgan BOONE ; Anne Hannah BOONE ; Thomas MORGAN
His 4-Great Grandchildren: Celine Elizabeth LODGE ; Silas Lilliard BRYAN ; Jacob BOONE ; Francis Isherwood CAMPBELL ; Elizabeth VARDEMAN ; Barsheba MENEFEE ; Mary Johnson WILLS
Here is a bit about the origin and ancient of my Morgan family.
The Morgan name is Celtic in origin, arising from the ancient Britons of Wales. It comes
from the Old Welsh personal name Morcant, composed of the Welsh elements "mor,"
meaning "sea," and cant meaning "circle."
From the beautiful Welsh mountain ranges comes the distinguished Morgan surname. Wales
is a land of soft-spoken, music-loving poets, a people famous for their bards, Eisteddfods
(Music Festivals) and their choral groups.
After the exodus of the Romans in the 5th century A.D., the ancient Britons were left in
possession of Western England, present-day Wales, and Cumbria, while the Germanic
invaders, the Saxons, Jutes, and Angles continued a determined invasion from the South-East of
England. It was in the year 616, and the Battle of Chester, that the Celts were divided, and
Wales, though still a group of kingdoms, came to be a distinct nation. Rhodri Mawr (Rhodri
the Great), was the first great Welsh warrior king. In 855, through skillful alliances and
practical marriages, he became the king of Powys and much of the rest of Wales. On his death
he gave Wales to his three sons, Anarawd became King of North Wales, Cadalh became King
of South Wales and Mervyn became King of Powys or mid-Wales.
The history of the ancestors of the Morgan family begins in the ancient Welsh chronicles.
The name Morgan was first found in Caernarvonshire (Welsh: Sir Caernarfon), a former
county in Northwest Wales, anciently part of the Kingdom of Gwynedd, and today divided
between the unitary authorities of Gwynedd and Conwy. The surname is derived from the
"Welsh personal name of high antiquity. The founder of the Pelagian heresy, in the fourth
century, was a true Welshman and a monk of Bangor. His name was Morgan, which signifies
'Of the Sea' and this was correctly Latinized Pelagius. The Morgans of Golden Grove, co.
Flint, descend from Marchudd ap Cynan, founder of the eighth noble tribe of North Wales
and Powys.
Whether Sir James was Edward's father the Morgan, my family are royals. Your statement that the Morgan family are fake royals is false, regardless of your information on gene pools.
Here's more information:
Researchers reviewed manuscripts such as the Domesday Book, the Pipe Rolls, Hearth Rolls,
the Black Book of the Exchequer, the Curia Regis Rolls, and my family name, Morgan,
was found with several different spellings. Examples of these spelling variations include
Morgan, Morgen, Morgain, and Morgaine, and many of these versions are still in use today.
These changes in spelling frequently occurred, even between father and son. It was not
uncommon for a person in his or her own life to be born with one spelling, marry with
another, and have still another on the headstone in his or her resting place.
In the 13th century the princes of Gwynedd came very close to uniting Wales and the last of
their line, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd, called himself the Prince of Wales. When Edward I
became king, Llywelyn refused to do homage to him. The King besieged the natural fortress
of Gwynedd in 1277, and in November of that year, Llywelyn was killed. His head was sent to
London for display as that of a traitor. Edward proved to be an onerous overlord over Wales,
and Llywelyn's younger brother David, touched off a spirited, but unsuccessful general
revolt. This time the King's victory was complete and Wales was to exist under an alien
political system, playing a subordinate role in the kingdom of England. A great number of
impressive fortresses were then erected by Edward throughout Wales to eliminate any
possibility of further revolt. In 1301, King Edward made his son, Lord Edward (who had been
born at Caernarfon Castle), Prince of Wales and Count of Chester, and ever since that date,
these titles have been automatically conferred upon the first-born son of the English monarch.
In this era, bearers of the Welsh family name Morgan could be found in Carnarvonshire
where they were recorded as a family of great antiquity seated as Lords of the manor and held
estates in that shire. This distinguished Welsh family were descended from the Monk of
Bangor, founder of the Pelagian Romances. His name Morgan meaning "of the sea" and
descended from him was Marchudd Ap Cynan who was the founder of the Eighth Noble Tribe of
North Wales and Powys derived to the Morgans of Golden Grove in Flintshire about
the 11th century. Morgan ap Thomas was the first to assume the surname Morgan and the
name branched south into Worcestershire, Monmouthshire, where the scion of that branch
was the Lord of Tredegar. They also established branches at Carmarthen and many counties
along the Welsh English border. By 1600 this prolific name had also spread into eastern
England into Suffolk, Kent, and Essex, and even as far north as Durham. The notorious
Captain Morgan, the Buccaneer, was descended from the Monmouth branch.
Prominent bearers of the family name during the late Middle Ages included Admiral Sir
Henry Morgan (ca. 1635-1688), Welsh pirate who raided Spanish ships and settlements in the
Caribbean, and became acting Governor of Jamaica (1680-1682); William Morgan (1560-1653),
a Welsh politician who sat in the House of Commons of England in 1624 and 1625, supporter
of the Royalist cause in the English Civil War; Thomas Morgan (c.1589-1664), a Welsh
politician who sat in the House of Commons in 1654; Major-General Sir Thomas Morgan,
1st Baronet (1604-1679), a Welsh soldier during the English Civil War, Commander-in chief in Scotland during the Restoration; Robert Morgan (1608-1673), a Welsh bishop of
Bangor; William Morgan (died 1690), English cartographer, best known for his large map of
the City of London; and Thomas Morgan, JP (1664-1700), a Welsh politician, Member of
Parliament for Brecon (1689-1690) and (1698-1700), for Monmouthshire (1690-1705); and John
Morgan (c.1641-1715), a Welsh merchant, High Sheriff of Monmouthshire in 1697, he
purchased Rhiwperra Castle from a cousin as his home.
For the next two or three centuries the surname Morgan flourished and played an important
role in local politics and in the affairs of Britain in general. During the 16th, 17th and 18th
centuries England and Wales were ravaged by religious conflict. The power of the Church,
and the Crown, their assessments, tithes, and demands, imposed a heavy burden on rich and
poor alike. They looked to the New World for their salvation. Some, such as Captain
Morgan even became the pirates who roamed the West Indies. Others, attracted by economic
opportunities, moved eastward into the English cities.
Some went to Ireland where they were granted lands previously owned by the Catholic Irish. In
Ireland settled in Waterford, Sligo and became the Barons Muskerry. In 1890, a birth
census of Welsh families in Ireland was taken. From that census, it was estimated that there
were over 5,914 people bearing the surname Morgan throughout Ireland; about 50 percent were
living in the province of Ulster where the families were found in Antrim, Armagh, and
Down.
Many went directly from Wales, while others left from Ireland. They sailed to the New
World across the stormy Atlantic in the tiny sailing ships, which were to become known as
the "White Sails." These overcrowded ships, built for 100 but sometimes crammed with 400
and 500 people, spending two months at sea, were wracked with disease, sometimes landing
with only 60 to 70 percent of the original passenger list.
facts sorealitsunbelievalbe
May 8, 2021, 7:07:12 PM5/8/21
to
P.S. ALSO,
Sir James Morgan's father's name was Sir Edward Morgan AND his son was Sir Edward Morgan as well (Sir John Edward Morgan, Sr.
Sir James Morgan's father's name was Sir Edward Morgan AND his son was Sir Edward Morgan as well (Sir John Edward Morgan, Sr.
taf
May 11, 2021, 3:49:51 AM5/11/21
to
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 3:13:25 PM UTC-7, petriema...@gmail.com wrote:
> CITATION:
> https://thepeerage.com/p44294.htm#i442935
> ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L1WH-4BW/john-edward-morgan-sr-1660-1736
> https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-James-Morgan-4th...
> https://gw.geneanet.org/jwj424?lang=en&n=morgan&oc=0&p=edward
> https://gw.geneanet.org/jwj424?lang=en&n=morgan+sir&oc=0&p=james
> www.geni.com › people › Sarah-Boone
Citing crowdsourced or self-published web sites as the basis for a lineage is a recipe for misleading oneself. Take, for example, thepeerage.com. Where did its compiler get his information An email someone sent them. Anyone can put anything in an email, that doesn't make it accurate. And ancestors.familysearch.org simply displays whatever the last person to edit it happened to want it to say. The same goes for geni.com and geneanet.org. In order to document a royal descent, one has to go back to the original historical record and demonstrate using original sources that the relationship is authentic, not just find instances online where someone made the claim.
> Here is a bit about the origin and ancient of my Morgan family.
Except this is not a history of your Morgan family, it is a history of the name Morgan, which is not the same thing. Morgan as a patronymic surname has many independent origins, so everyone named Morgan is not a member of your Morgan family.
> The Morgan name is Celtic in origin, arising from the ancient Britons of Wales. It comes
> from the Old Welsh personal name Morcant, composed of the Welsh elements "mor,"
> meaning "sea," and cant meaning "circle."
>
> From the beautiful Welsh mountain ranges comes the distinguished Morgan surname.
If the name means 'sea circle' how is it coming from the beautiful mountain ranges?
> The surname is derived from the
> "Welsh personal name of high antiquity. The founder of the Pelagian heresy, in the fourth
> century, was a true Welshman and a monk of Bangor. His name was Morgan, which signifies
> 'Of the Sea' and this was correctly Latinized Pelagius. The Morgans of Golden Grove, co.
> Flint, descend from Marchudd ap Cynan, founder of the eighth noble tribe of North Wales
> and Powys.
Yes, Morgan as a surname derives from descent from people bearing Morgan as their given name, but not all from the same Morgan, and definitively not from this specific Morgan living in the 4th century, about a millennium before the Welsh first adopted patronymic surnames.
> Whether Sir James was Edward's father the Morgan, my family are royals.
If Edward was not son of Sir James, then how does one know what his ancestry might be?
> Your statement that the Morgan family are fake royals is false, regardless of your information on gene pools.
That is not what he said. He only said that this specific Morgan cannot be shown to have royal ancestry.
> Researchers reviewed manuscripts such as the Domesday Book, the Pipe Rolls, Hearth Rolls,
> the Black Book of the Exchequer, the Curia Regis Rolls, and my family name, Morgan,
> was found with several different spellings.
Nobody is arguing that there aren't historical examples of the given name Morgan on medieval records, but it adds nothing to the proof that a specific person with the surname Morgan was of royal descent.
> In the 13th century . . .
> This distinguished Welsh family were descended from the Monk of
> Bangor, founder of the Pelagian Romances. His name Morgan meaning "of the sea" and
No, they were not. The Welsh did not use surnames in the 4th century, nor for many many centuries afterward, so there could be no mechanism whereby the 4th century monk could give rise to the Morgan family in the manner suggested by the coincidental naming. Setting aside the surname issue, there are no reliable Welsh pedigrees that extend this far back.
> Morgan ap Thomas was the first to assume the surname Morgan and the
This appears to be a non-sequitur.
> name branched south into Worcestershire, Monmouthshire, where the scion of that branch
> was the Lord of Tredegar. They also established branches at Carmarthen and many counties
> along the Welsh English border. By 1600 this prolific name had also spread into eastern
> England into Suffolk, Kent, and Essex, and even as far north as Durham.
The name was a patronymic, so there is no reason to portray 'the Morgans' as a single entity that established branches in these various places. It is likely that many if not each of these represented different lineages, descended from different founders who independently converted their patronymic into the Morgan surname, and who bear no relationship to each other.
> For the next two or three centuries the surname Morgan flourished and played an important
> role in local politics and in the affairs of Britain in general. During the 16th, 17th and 18th
> centuries England and Wales were ravaged by religious conflict. . . .
> Some went to Ireland where they were granted lands previously owned by the Catholic Irish. . . .
taf
> CITATION:
> https://thepeerage.com/p44294.htm#i442935
> ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L1WH-4BW/john-edward-morgan-sr-1660-1736
> https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-James-Morgan-4th...
> https://gw.geneanet.org/jwj424?lang=en&n=morgan&oc=0&p=edward
> https://gw.geneanet.org/jwj424?lang=en&n=morgan+sir&oc=0&p=james
> www.geni.com › people › Sarah-Boone
Citing crowdsourced or self-published web sites as the basis for a lineage is a recipe for misleading oneself. Take, for example, thepeerage.com. Where did its compiler get his information An email someone sent them. Anyone can put anything in an email, that doesn't make it accurate. And ancestors.familysearch.org simply displays whatever the last person to edit it happened to want it to say. The same goes for geni.com and geneanet.org. In order to document a royal descent, one has to go back to the original historical record and demonstrate using original sources that the relationship is authentic, not just find instances online where someone made the claim.
> Here is a bit about the origin and ancient of my Morgan family.
> The Morgan name is Celtic in origin, arising from the ancient Britons of Wales. It comes
> from the Old Welsh personal name Morcant, composed of the Welsh elements "mor,"
> meaning "sea," and cant meaning "circle."
>
> From the beautiful Welsh mountain ranges comes the distinguished Morgan surname.
> The surname is derived from the
> "Welsh personal name of high antiquity. The founder of the Pelagian heresy, in the fourth
> century, was a true Welshman and a monk of Bangor. His name was Morgan, which signifies
> 'Of the Sea' and this was correctly Latinized Pelagius. The Morgans of Golden Grove, co.
> Flint, descend from Marchudd ap Cynan, founder of the eighth noble tribe of North Wales
> and Powys.
> Whether Sir James was Edward's father the Morgan, my family are royals.
> Your statement that the Morgan family are fake royals is false, regardless of your information on gene pools.
> Researchers reviewed manuscripts such as the Domesday Book, the Pipe Rolls, Hearth Rolls,
> the Black Book of the Exchequer, the Curia Regis Rolls, and my family name, Morgan,
> was found with several different spellings.
> In the 13th century . . .
> In this era, bearers of the Welsh family name Morgan could be found in Carnarvonshire
> where they were recorded as a family of great antiquity seated as Lords of the manor and held
> estates in that shire.
Are you sure there was a Welsh family name Morgan in the 13th century, as opposed to just people with the patronymic Morgan, recorded like it was a surname in some English records?
> where they were recorded as a family of great antiquity seated as Lords of the manor and held
> estates in that shire.
> This distinguished Welsh family were descended from the Monk of
> Bangor, founder of the Pelagian Romances. His name Morgan meaning "of the sea" and
> Morgan ap Thomas was the first to assume the surname Morgan and the
> name branched south into Worcestershire, Monmouthshire, where the scion of that branch
> was the Lord of Tredegar. They also established branches at Carmarthen and many counties
> along the Welsh English border. By 1600 this prolific name had also spread into eastern
> England into Suffolk, Kent, and Essex, and even as far north as Durham.
> For the next two or three centuries the surname Morgan flourished and played an important
> role in local politics and in the affairs of Britain in general. During the 16th, 17th and 18th
> They looked to the New World for their salvation. Some, such as Captain
> Morgan even became the pirates who roamed the West Indies. Others, attracted by economic
> opportunities, moved eastward into the English cities. . . .
> Morgan even became the pirates who roamed the West Indies. Others, attracted by economic
> Some went to Ireland where they were granted lands previously owned by the Catholic Irish. . . .
> Many went directly from Wales, while others left from Ireland.
Again, this is like saying that the surname Johnson flourished, and that 'the Johnsons' looked to the new world. It may be true that various people named Morgan did so, but it has no genealogical significance since there is no reason to believe that any two people bearing the Morgan surname had any relationship to one another, unless it can be directly documented, which brings us back to the crux of the dispute, whether a single specific Morgan immigrant was son of another specific British Morgan of royal descent, and this cannot be shown simply by talking about 'the Morgans'.
taf
taf
May 11, 2021, 3:51:03 AM5/11/21
to
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:07:12 PM UTC-7, petriema...@gmail.com wrote:
> P.S. ALSO,
>
> Sir James Morgan's father's name was Sir Edward Morgan AND his son was Sir Edward Morgan as well (Sir John Edward Morgan, Sr.
Please explain further. The point you intend here is unclear.
> P.S. ALSO,
>
> Sir James Morgan's father's name was Sir Edward Morgan AND his son was Sir Edward Morgan as well (Sir John Edward Morgan, Sr.
taf
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