Alice de Toni

Panshin

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Feb 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/11/97

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I'm trying to sort out Alice de Toni (Tony, Toney, Toeni), and there
seem to be two of her. One lived 1254-1325, married Walter de Beauchamp
in 1270, and had children 1279-83. The other lived 1283-1325, married
Guy de Beauchamp (Walter's nephew), and had children around 1313.

I've seen both of them given as the daughter of Ralph de Toni and Alice
de Bohun. I've also seen the younger Alice de Toni given as the
daughter of Ralph de Toni and Mary, with Ralph being the son of Roger de
Toni and Alice de Bohun.

I'm totally confused. Can anyone help?

Alan B. Wilson

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Feb 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/12/97

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See lines 84, 86, and 98 in Weis, Ancestral Roots. If the following chart
does not get distorted in transmission, it may help.

William Beauchamp = Isobel Maudit Roger de Toeni = Alice Bohun
| |
給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給
| | | |
William = Maud Fitz John Walter = Alice Ralph = Mary ?
| |
Guy Beauchamp = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =Alice de Toeni

--
Alan B. Wilson
abwi...@uclink2.berkeley.edu

Gayle Wilson

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Feb 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/13/97

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Panshin wrote:
>
> I'm trying to sort out Alice de Toni (Tony, Toney, Toeni), and there
> seem to be two of her. One lived 1254-1325, married Walter de Beauchamp
> in 1270, and had children 1279-83. The other lived 1283-1325, married
> Guy de Beauchamp (Walter's nephew), and had children around 1313.
>
> I've seen both of them given as the daughter of Ralph de Toni and Alice
> de Bohun. I've also seen the younger Alice de Toni given as the
> daughter of Ralph de Toni and Mary, with Ralph being the son of Roger de
> Toni and Alice de Bohun.
>
> I'm totally confused. Can anyone help?

Roger V Tosni, Lord Flamsted, and his wife, Alice Bohun were the parents
of at least one daughter and one son. Their daughter, Alice, born
c1257, married Walter Beauchamp. The son of Roger V Tosni, Lord
Flamsted, and Alice Bohun was called Ralph VII Tosni, (Tonei, etc) Lord
Flamsted. He was born in 1255 and died before 29 July 1295, in
Gascony. This Ralph married a girl named Mary, most likely of Scottish
descent, before 1276, and they had at least three children. The
daughter mentioned in your query was named Alice. She was born c1283
and died within days of 08 January 1324. This Alice married three
times. Her husbands were: Thomas Leyburn, who died before 30 May 1307;
Guy Beauchamp, Earl Warwick 1278-
10 August 1315, in Warwick Castle, Warwickshire, England; and William
Zouche Mortimer, who died on 3 February 1271. (The siblings of this
Alice were Robert, who was Baron of Tosni, and the husband of Maud of
Strathearn, and Mary Tosni, who was the wife of Robert Tybetot.)

May your roses always bloom in the Son,
Gayle Wilson

MRS CHARLOTTE C SMITH

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97

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according to Weiss-Ancestral roots line 98..Alice de Toeni b 1283 d
1345 m l Thomas de Leyburn 2nd abt 1309 Guy de Beauchamp, Earl
ofWarwick and 3rd Sir Wm La Zouche.. She and Beuchamp had Maude de
Beauchamp who married Geoffey de Say and probably others. Charlotte
at TTM...@Prodigy.com

Panshin

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Feb 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/17/97

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> I'm trying to sort out Alice de Toni (Tony, Toney, Toeni), and there
> seem to be two of her.

Thanks. This relieves a lot of temporal stress in my database.

Cory Panshin

Jim Stevens

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Feb 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/17/97

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The original inquiry was:
______________________________________________________

I'm trying to sort out Alice de Toni (Tony, Toney, Toeni), and there

seem to be two of her. One lived 1254-1325, married Walter de Beauchamp
in 1270, and had children 1279-83. The other lived 1283-1325, married
Guy de Beauchamp (Walter's nephew), and had children around 1313.

I've seen both of them given as the daughter of Ralph de Toni and Alice
de Bohun. I've also seen the younger Alice de Toni given as the
daughter of Ralph de Toni and Mary, with Ralph being the son of Roger de
Toni and Alice de Bohun.

I'm totally confused. Can anyone help?

_________________________________________________________

Correct. Alice de Teoni (1283-1324/5), dau. of Ralph VII de Teoni (d.bef
29 Jul 1296 in Gascony) & Mary, did m. Guy de Beauchamp, 2nd Earl of
Warwick (1278-1315) before 28 Feb 1309/1310. One of the other children was
Thomas de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick (1313-1369) who m. Katherine, dau. of
Roger de Mortimer, Earl of March and paramour of Queen Isabella of England
(1287-1330 [executed for treason]) and Joan de Geneville.

The other Alice was this Alice's aunt, the sister of Ralph VII de Teoni and
dau. of Roger V de Teoni (1235-1264) and Isabel of unk. parentage. This
Aunt Alice, to make matters totally confusing, had m. Walter de Beauchamp
of Powyke (d.1303). Walter was the uncle of the Guy, 2nd Earl of Warwick,
mentioned above, who m. the niece Alice !

Aunt Alice's father, Roger V de Teoni, before he m. Isabel, did m. Alice,
dau. of Humphrey V de Bohun, Earl of Hereford (1208-1275) and Maud de
Lusignan, but this couple, as far as I know, had no children. Per
Cockayne's "Complete Peerage" (Roger de Toeni V), a contract of marriage
between Roger de Toeni, then aged 3, and Alice was confirmed by KING HENRY
III in 1239. The marriage did take place and Alice was buried in the
chapter house of Llanthony Priory outside Gloucester. However, nothing more
is known of Alice, and Roger's marriage was granted to QUEEN ELEANOR (RIN
784).

So don't feel too bad about being confused !!!

Today is the first day of the rest of your life ! (jste...@iquest.net) Jim