Manley and variations
PAL...@aol.com
done extensive work and hit a brick wall. If anything here sounds familiar
please let me know.
HERE IS THE INFORMATION I WAS GIVEN--
I want to see if there is anybody out there who knows about the Ansold De
Maule of France and the change of the surname to De Manleigh, De Manlay, De
Manley and Manley, only a few of the variants. Earliest Cheshire records go
from De Manley to Manley. Am trying to find information on Roger De Manley,
father of Maud. Maud married into Welsh royalty but I have lost Roger. Some
of them end up in Scotland also. I think these heads of family were given
land grants.
Maud De Manley born Cheshire abt 1106
Her father: Roger De Manley or possibly De Manleigh or De Maule
Maud married Lorwerth "Goch" (which stands for "Red") Ap Maredudd of Wales.
The marriage took place in Cheshire in 1135. The Maredudd name goes back to
the 900's in Wales. Also, that Ap is a part of the Welsh surname.
I am trying to find Roger De Manley and see if I can link to De Maule
Peggy
Rosie Bevan
is a misreading of the latter if from a medieval manuscript. 'le at the end
of a name can be interpreted as 'ley'.
BTW The Manleys were featured in a popular English BBC TV series called
"Meet the Ancestors" whereby faces were reconstructed from skulls acquired
from archaeological excavations (Roman-medieval) to get an idea of what the
person looked like. The programme also researched the village or community
to gain an impression of what was there and what it looked like at the time
of the burial of the person. In the case of the Manleys, a skeleton was
exhumed in the chancel of Poulton Chapel, Cheshire, a small Cistercian
house, (this particular branch of the Manleys lived at Poulton manor at the
time) and identified as Nicholas Manley who had requested in his will to be
buried there when he died (1520). A lady from the Cheshire family History
Society traced Nicholas' descendants who were approached by the BBC to
appear on the programme. There was an uncanny likeness between the
reconstructed skull of Nicholas and his supposed descendant, although there
was no actual proof that the skeleton was that of Nicholas Manley.
Cheers
Rosie
Todd A. Farmerie
> HERE IS THE INFORMATION I WAS GIVEN--
> I want to see if there is anybody out there who knows about the Ansold De
> Maule of France and the change of the surname to De Manleigh, De Manlay, De
> Manley and Manley,
While I cannot formally disprove it, I find this derivation of
the name to be extremely unlikely (but typical of the 19th
century pedigree inventors). The -ley ending in an english
surname almost always comes from an English place name,
containing the Anglo-Saxon -legh (also the root of Leigh, Legh,
and Lee, as well an names ending in -legh, -leigh, -ley, -ly),
which means a grassy field or meadow of some sort (look in one of
the Place-Name Studies volumes for the precise definition. The
Mau- to Man- is also unlikely. This has every appearance of a
case where someone looked for a grossly similar looking name and
assimed a connection.
> only a few of the variants. Earliest Cheshire records go
> from De Manley to Manley. Am trying to find information on Roger De Manley,
> father of Maud. Maud married into Welsh royalty but I have lost Roger. Some
> of them end up in Scotland also. I think these heads of family were given
> land grants.
I also suspect there were several places called Manlegh, and
hence several entirely unrelated families bearing this name. I
know it is found in Cornwall and/or Devon also.
> Maud married Lorwerth "Goch" (which stands for "Red") Ap Maredudd of Wales.
That should be Iorwerth.
> The marriage took place in Cheshire in 1135. The Maredudd name goes back to
> the 900's in Wales.
Maredudd is a given name (that of Iorwerth's father) not a
surname, so as such it is deceptive to say it goes back to ca.
900. It was certainly used as a given name before that time,
while it was not used as a surname until the Welsh started using
surnames, 400-1000 years later.
> Also, that Ap is a part of the Welsh surname.
Actually not, as this is not a surname at all. Ap means "son
of", so Iorwerth ap Maredudd is simply Iorwerth son of Maredudd.
He had no surname.
> I am trying to find Roger De Manley and see if I can link to De Maule
Not likely.
taf
Dolly Ziegler
GEN-MEDIEVAL because of the flame wars. However, never have I seen
anything as vicious as what's going on now.
I would just like to say, I respect both Leo and Todd as genealogists and
as courteous men.
Could we please stop the personal attacks and get back to genealogy?
Dolly Ziegler in Maryland
Josi Luis Fernandez Blanco
that requested a stop of this, but it seems that as
this list has no "moderator" is going nowhere. Today
I have 136 messages in my mail, only 10 CONTAIN
VALUABLE INFORMATION.
Is this what SGM is meant for?
It's pitiful. Indeed!
Joe in Atlanta.
__________________________________________________
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Josi Luis Fernandez Blanco
It's been now 2.5 hours deleting garbish, and I still
have more ...
Yes, the final count does not reach the 10 ... Huh!
Regards,
Joe in Atlanta
Janko Pavsic
Janko Pavsic
Montréal, Québec
Al Magary
>VALUABLE INFORMATION.
I am a longtime lurker, but I agree completely with this writer. Keep
flames out
of public unless the subject *should* engage the community.
Al Magary
Roz Griston
agree with you on that statement...todd and leo are most often both,
but they have another side, if you look closely..beyond the grins and
glad handing. look up the word diplomacy in the dictionary..it can be
polite deception employed to achieve an ends. diplomats are very adept
at twisting and bending the truth..spin doctoring.
if i and others have been vicious..it is because we have seen or
experienced the underbelly of the diplomatic dragons. we just happen to
play hard ball, when a diplomat attempts to hornswoggle us.
todd and don have the ability to clean up this list. leo is not the
wide eyed innocent..and hines is hines..look at the diplomacy and charm
he's turned on the last week. wouldn't it be nice if he was that
courteous all the time. he is definately knowledgeable.
sometimes the truth hurts.
best regards
roz
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: Roz Griston <r_gr...@dccnet.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: vicious attacks
> yes, dolly most diplomats are courteous and knowledgeable. i solidly
> agree with you on that statement...todd and leo are most often both,
> but they have another side,
Dear Roz,
When have I evern shown YOU another side?
if you look closely..beyond the grins and
> glad handing. look up the word diplomacy in the dictionary..it can be
> polite deception employed to achieve an ends. diplomats are very adept
> at twisting and bending the truth..spin doctoring.
====Do tell what Todd and I expect to achieve? We both help more than that
we are helped. Who is the beneficiary?
>
> if i and others have been vicious..it is because we have seen or
> experienced the underbelly of the diplomatic dragons. we just happen to
> play hard ball, when a diplomat attempts to hornswoggle us.
===Dear oh Dear Roz, what have we done to YOU? Who has been baiting Hines in
the last few weeks, trying to invite OT responses? Keep your bickies!
>
> todd and don have the ability to clean up this list.
====How? Time and time again they have explained what they can and cannot
do. What do you suggest? People being removed from the list? I believe they
can do that but they cannot stop anyone sending messages to the list. Why do
you think you get so much advertising?
leo is not the
> wide eyed innocent..
====snide remark, do spell it out.
and hines is hines..look at the diplomacy and charm
> he's turned on the last week. wouldn't it be nice if he was that
> courteous all the time. he is definately knowledgeable.
> sometimes the truth hurts.
> best regards
> roz
===Suddenly you have turned, what has happened to you?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Rosie Bevan
Manleigh, or Menlie as it was called at Domesday. According to Ormerod, at
the time of Henry III, the Manleys held the manor from the Dones of Crowton
who held of the Dones of Utkinton who held of the fee of Kingsley. The
Manley arms were "Argent, a dexter hand couped and erect sable within a
bordure engrailed of the second" . The erect black hand was a visual pun on
the name Manley. The family motto was "this hand is the scourge of the
tyrant"
The Visitation pedigree of the Manleys of P(o)ulton can be seen at
http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/ocgenealogy/visitationcheshire1580e17.htm
The pedigree of the Manleys of Manley is in Ormerod's History of the County
Palatine and City of Chester, v.2,p.105. It starts with Robert de Manleigh,
father of Roger de Manlegh who granted lands in Manley to the abbey of St
Werberg temp Hen III.
Cheers
Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janko Pavsic" <janko...@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Chris Phillips
> > HERE IS THE INFORMATION I WAS GIVEN--
> > I want to see if there is anybody out there who knows about the Ansold De
> > Maule of France and the change of the surname to De Manleigh, De Manlay, De
> > Manley and Manley,
Todd Farmerie replied:
> While I cannot formally disprove it, I find this derivation of
> the name to be extremely unlikely (but typical of the 19th
> century pedigree inventors). The -ley ending in an english
> surname almost always comes from an English place name,
> containing the Anglo-Saxon -legh (also the root of Leigh, Legh,
> and Lee, as well an names ending in -legh, -leigh, -ley, -ly),
> which means a grassy field or meadow of some sort (look in one of
> the Place-Name Studies volumes for the precise definition. The
> Mau- to Man- is also unlikely. This has every appearance of a
> case where someone looked for a grossly similar looking name and
> assimed a connection.
It does seem unlikely that a surname would have mutated from "Mauley" to "Manley". On the other hand, Maule for Manle (or vice versa) would be a very easy misreading of the written name.
There is a discussion in Complete Peerage, vol.3, Appendix C (p.603) about variant forms of the same name arising for this reason (such as Haudlo and Andlo, Mauny and Manny, Parvyng and Parnyng). Those are presumably examples in which one form was in daily use, but the other appears, particularly in modern works, through a misreading. So that would be a question of whether Ansold was _really_ called de Maule, or whether the name could have been misread at some stage (and whether he really came from France?).
Chris Phillips