Constable Connections - Sir Robert and his 'cousin' Edmund de Thweng
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
Previous threads have noted the identification in varied
sources of Katherine, wife of Sir Robert le Constable of
Flamborough, co. Yorks. (sometimes wrongly placed, but correctly
he who d. aft 8 Dec 1336) as Katherine de Mauley, daughter of
Piers de Mauley [of various generations]. In connection with
this issue, I have noted the following details taken from the
pedigree of Thwenge of Kilton [1] {verbatim from Sir John de
Thwenge and subsequent}:
Sir Marmaduke de Thweng = Lucy de Brus
d. 1279 I
_________________________________I
I I I I
Robert I I Sir John de Thwenge, = Joan, dau. of Sir
_______I I Knt., b. at Kilton 1261, I Robert de Mauley;
I I a fugitive from justice I d. 13 July 1347.
Sir Marmaduke I in 1293, and in 1294 I Inq.p.m. 21 July
______________I charged with the murder I 1347; orderd to
I I I I of Roger Colstan, [etc.] I take into the King's
<siblings> d. 2 Dec. 1330. The I the lands late of
escheator was ordered to I Joan, late the wife
take into the King's hands I of John de Thwenge
the lands lateof Sir John I
de Thwenge, Knt. at I
Cornburgh, given to him I
by his elder bro. Marmaduke I
_____________________________________I_____
I I
2 Margery Sir Edmund de Thwenge of Cornburgh,
= Ralph de Neville, nr. Sheriffhutton, and Southburn;
Lord of Coverham, d. d. 15 Oct. 1344. Inq.p.m. 11 Nov.
18 Apr. 1331; bur. 1344; bur. at Sheriff Hutton, where
in Coverham abbey his effigy in mail armour still
= 1 Euphemia, dau. exists in the north chapel
of Sir John de = 1 Alice, dau. = 2 Isabel, dau. of Sir
Clavering & sole heir of Robert Constable of
Walter de Helmesley, Flamborough, and
who brought the Katherine, dau. of
manor of Upper Peter, Lord Mauley;
Hemsley to her dower assigned 18 Oct.
husband in 1320 1345 of lands in
Cornbrough and South-
burn; d. 1346; bur.
at Flamborough.
Inq.p.m. 21 July 1346
Interestingly, while the pedigrees for the Thwenges of Kilton
and their cadets (pp. 371-385) are based in part on Visitation
pedigrees, the notes to same indicate many other reliable primary
and secondary sources used in their compilation, including VCH
(Yorkshire), Testamenta Eboracensia, Yorkshire Inquisitions and
others (some of which are cited, if incompletely, in the pedigrees
as shown above) [2].
The foregoing works well with the separate record I noted in
the Constable pedigree (Foster's) which states, without
attribution,
' Robert Constable, was of Flamborough, calls Sir Marmaduke
Thwenge his uncle 1319, and Edward Thwenge, of Cornburgh,
his cousin. ' [3]
The chronology of the career of this Sir Robert le
Constable [4], and of the de Mauley family (as can best be
determined) indicates the following conjectural chart, now
enhanced with the details given in the HSP Yorkshire pedigrees:
1) Joan de = Piers de Mauley = 2) NN
Brus b. aft 24 May 1221 I
d. bef 15 Jul 1279 I
_____________________________________I_____
I I
Piers de Mauley = bef 1274 Nichole Sir Robert
b. 22 Jul 1249 I de Gant de Mauley
d. 6 Sept 1308 I (cf. CP VIII:561
__________________I .... note (f)
I . I
I . I
Piers de Mauley Katherine = Sir ROBERT Joan = Sir John
b. 10 Mar 1280/ de Mauley I Constable I de Thweng
1281 d. bef 19 I d. aft 8 Dec I b. 1261
d. aft 23 May Mar 1376 I 1336 I d. 2 Dec
1348 I I 1330
___________________I_____ I
I I I I I I
Sir Marmaduke <siblings> Isabel = Sir EDMUND de Thweng
d. 1 Jun 1378 d. 15 Oct 1344
The foregoing would provide a relationship (or relationships)
between Sir Robert le Constable and Sir Edmund (not Edward) de
Thwenge of Cornburgh, consistant with those shown in the Thweng
pedigree cited above, and with the statements give by Foster that
Sir Robert le Constable had called "Edward" Thwenge of Cornburgh
his cousin (if only by marriage).
The probable descent of Sir Robert le Constable himself from
the de Thwengs of Kilton has not yet been resolved, although
hinted at by Foster as shown above. Perhaps the IPMs cited in
HSP 96:376-7 for Joan (de Mauley) de Thweng, dated 21 July 1347,
and for Isabel (le Constable) de Thweng, dated 21 July 1346,
will provide further proof, or additional details for research.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] Given in Yorkshire Pedigrees, HSP 96:376-7.
[2] HSP 96:385 gives the following at the end of the Thwenge
pedigrees:
" Authorities: Glover's Visitation, 1584-5; St. George's, 1612;
Radclyffe, Brack, 1735; Vic. County Hist. of Yorks., N.R.,
vol. II; Test. Ebor.; Wills in the York Registry (Yorks. Arch.
Soc.); Yorks. Arch. Journal; W. Hebditch, M.A.; Guisborough
Chartulary, Fasti Eboracenses, Yorks. Inquisitions (Y.A.S.);
Feet of Fines (Y.A.S.); Chronicles of Melsa Abbey, Fountain's
Chartulary, Bridlington Chartulary, Close Rolls, Patent Rolls,
Charter Rolls. "
[3] Foster, Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire:
Constable of Burton Constable.
[4] The following reflects the documentation I have to hand
concerning Sir Robert le Constable:
Sir Robert le Constable
----------------------------------------
d. after 8 Dec 1336 [8]
knt., of Flamborough, co. Yorks.
summoned to serve in Scotland, 24 June 1300;
knighted 22 May 1306 together with Edward (II), Prince of Wales[10]
' On 15 Feb. 1312, he was sumd, as Robt. s. of Wm le Constable, to
appear before the Kg at York to treat on arduous affairs, and on
24 June foll. under the style of Robt Constable, jun., was ord.
to go to Stamford Bridge with horse and arms.' [YAS XCI:51[12]]
' Robert Constable, was of Flamborough, calls Sir Marmaduke
Thwenge his uncle 1319, and Edward Thwenge, of Cornburgh, his
cousin. ' [Foster, pedigree of Constable of Burton Constable[13] ;
cf. J. Ravilious, <Constable Connection: The Lords Thweng>[14]]
' Robert Constable ', enfeoffed Aymer de Valence in his purparty
related to the church of Foston on the Wolds, ref. to a dispute
concerning same in 1334 [in the text of the case, ' the Constable
descent is definitely given from the same Eufemia, being the mother
of William Constable (one of the coheirs in 1221), the father of
Robert Constable, father of William Constable (of the 1290-1 case),
father of Robert Constable who enfeoffed Aymer de Valence of his
purparty.' - EYC XII:144-5, cites EYC XI:198, and Genealogist,
N.S., ix, 9[3]
' Sir Robert le Conestable of Fleynburgh', witness to gift by his
cousin William de Houton in dower on marriage, dated at Pykerings,
Mon. after St. Peter ad vincula 6 Ed.III. (3 Aug. 1332):
' William de Houton to his wife Joan daughter of Sir Geoffrey de
St.Quintin property: messuage & 5 oxgangs in Wigthun. Toft & 5
oxgangs in Hougat. 10 tofts & crofts, 3½ oxgangs & 2ac. in Wartre.
Toft & 6 oxgangs in Repplingham. Toft & 2 oxgangs in Beleby.
Messuage & dovecote in Santon. 2 tofts & ½ oxgang in Bubwith.
Rent of 6s.8d. in Hygthe. Witn. Sir Robert le Conestable of
Fleynburgh, Sir William Bronys, Sir Roger de Grimyston, Richard
de Santon, Thomas de Hundgat of Brunby. ' - A2A, East Riding of
Yorkshire Archives and Records Service: Chichester-Constable
Family [DDCC/136 - DDCC2/G] - PEDIGREES AND GENEALOGICAL
MATERIAL - DDCC/149/26/Bb9a[8])
the next evidently refers to the same Robert le Constable:
quitclaim dated 8 Dec. 1336:
' Adam de Kelk of Bridlington to Roger son of Sir Robert de
Bonyngton, property: all suits and claims Witn. Sir Roger de
Sumervil, Sir Robert le Conestable, Sir John de Hastorp, Sir
William de Herechome, Sir George Salvayne, William de Bucton,
John de Speton, John de Carthorp Robert Randolf de Kilham,
Thomas de Bedale. Given at Bridlington.' - A2A,
East Riding of Yorkshire Archives and Records Service:
Chichester-Constable Family [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/135/5a[8]
' Robert, William and Marmaduke Conestable ', named (together
with his sons) as one of the 'relatives of the said Thomas [de
Thweng]' in his gift to Kirkleatham priory, 31 May 1348
[Inspeximus and confirmation of letters patent of William,
late archbishop of York, dated in Cawode manor, 31 May, 1348,
ordaining, on the petition of Thomas de Thweng, rector and
patron of the church of Lythom, dated 33 Edward III - Part III,
m. 22 1359 Oct. 6. Westminster - Calendar of Patent Rolls 1358-61,
pp. 287, 288, courtesy Chris Phillips[14]]
cf. Knights I:233[10]
YAS XCI:50-51 [sub _Robert le Constable of Flamborough_[12]]
sources for the above:
3. William Farrer, Hon.D.Litt., Editor, "Early Yorkshire Charters,"
Ballantyne, Hanson & Co., Edinburgh, 1915-1916, Vol. II (1915)
Vol. III (1916), Vol. XII [the family of Constable of
Flamborough], courtesy Rosie Bevan.
4. J. C. B. Sharp, "Constable Connections!," Sept 15, 2000,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, citing C. T. Clay, Early Yorkshire
Charters, xii, pp. 142-151.
5. Charles Roberts, ed., "Excerpta ex Rotulis Finium," The
Commissioners of the Public Records of the Kingdom, Vol I
(1216-1246), 1835, full title: Excerpta e Rotulis Finium in
Turri Londinensi asservatis, Henrico Tertio Rege, A.D.
1216-1272.
6. The Rev. J. T. Fowler, M.A., F.S.A., "The Coucher Book of
Selby [Cartularium Abbathiae S. Germani de Seleby]," The
Yorkshire Archaeological and Topographical Association, Record
Series, Vol. II (Record series vol. XIII) - 1893.
7. John Nichols, F.S.A., "The History and Antiquities of the County
of Leicester," London: Printed By and For John Nichols, 1795,
Vol. I, Appendix XIII: Chartulary of the Honour of Segrave, p.
119, charters of Thomas de Birkin, William de Flamborough and
Nicholas de Anesty, of lands in Pickwell and Leesthorpe, co.
Leics. to Stephen de Segrave, Vol. II, Pt. II (Gartre Hundred),
p. 488 re: grant of 'Boggeden' and Haverburgh to William de
Cantelou, 1237;, pp. 531 et seq., Burton Overy (family of Hugh
de Meinill), p. 768 et seq., manors of Pickwell and Leesthorpe
(Camville and Curzon), Vol. III, Pt. I (East Gascote Hundred)
- 1800; p. 62 et seq., Barrow;, pp. 301 et seq., Launde priory;
pp. 332 et seq., Whadborough (charters of Fulk Fitz Warin and
family), pp. 353 et seq., Prestwould; pp. 363 et seq., Burton
on the Wolds.
8. "Access to Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
9. John P. Ravilious, "Re: Magister Roger de Arundel and the
Birkins of Laxton, co. Notts.," April 18, 2003,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites charter of John de Birkin,
Joan his wife and Dionisia (her sister) widow of William de
Glanville, to monks of Watton (Records of the Anglo-Norman
House of Glanville,, text at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jglanville/roanhg2.htm
also fine of 19 June 1221 by Thomas de Birkin, Nicholas de
Anesty and Thomas de 'Hothu', as heirs of 'Magister Roger de
Arundel', Excerpta e Rotulis Finium in Turri Londinensi
asservatis ,, Henrico Tertio Rege, A.D. 1216-1272, p.66.
10. Rev. Charles Moor, D.D., F.S.A., "Knights of Edward I," Pubs.
of the Harleian Society, 1929-1930, 3 Vols. (Vols. 80-83 in
series).
11. "Testamenta Eboracensia [Selection of Wills, Reg. at York],"
The Surtees Society, Andrews & Co., Durham (J. B. Nichols &
Sons, London), Vol. IV, Pt. I: 1869, IV:50-52, will of Isabella
Deincourt (wife of Sir William fitz William) d. 1348, IV:97-99,
will of Marmaduke Constable (d. 1378), see pp. 100-101 for will
of Sir Martin de la See, IV:418-419, will of Isabella Salvayn.
12. A. Gooder, Ph.D., "The Parliamentary Representation of the
County of York, 1258-1832, Vol. I," The Yorkshire Archaeological
Society, Record Series, Vol. XCI (1935), Wakefield: Printed for
the Society, 1935.
13. "Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire," compiled by
Joseph Foster, W. Wilfred Head, London, 2 vols.: 1874.
14. John P. Ravilious, "Constable Connection: the Lords Thweng," 8
January 2005, the...@aol.com, cites Inspeximus and confirmation
of letters patent of William, late archbishop of York, dated in
Cawode manor, 31 May, 1348 [Calendar of Patent Rolls 1358-61,
pp. 287-288], and Joseph Foster, Pedigrees of the County
Families of Yorkshire (London: W. Wilfred Head, 1874), vol.
II, pedigree of Constable of Burton Constable.
* John P. Ravilious
Jwc...@aol.com
Could the Flamborough Constables haave been related to the
Thwengs, Constables of Burton, etc through the family of Brus of Skelton ?
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA