CP Addition: Eleanor de Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham

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The...@aol.com

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Dec 17, 2005, 11:48:17 PM12/17/05
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Saturday, 17 December, 2005

Hello All,

The diary of Richard Symonds is a well known source for studies
of the struggle between Cromwell and King Charles I in the 1640’s,
but also supplies some interesting non-military information. This
includes a detailed description of the windows of Exeter Cathedral,
including in some cases the family names of those whose arms are
depicted, shown as being recorded in 1644. These are most likely
the arms of individuals (in most cases, married couples) who were
benefactors of the cathedral.

Among the arms depicted, a number of married couples can be
identified. These include Sir Nicholas Carew (d. bef 20 Apr 1448)
and his wife Joan Courtenay ["COURTENAY, with a label of three
points azure." followed by "Or, three lions passant in pale sable
[CAREW]."], and Sir William de Montagu (d. 30 Jan 1343/4] and his
wife Katherine de Grandison ["GRANDISON." followed by
"MONTACUTE."] [1]. In particular, the arms described in the sixth
window (p. 85) are of interest, despite having only a partial
identification provided by the editor:


" Sixth window:
A similar coat to the last.
Argent, three fusils conjoined in fess gules, a bordure sable.
Or, three lions passant sable.
Gules, three fusils conjoined in fess ermine [DINHAM]. " [2]


The first pair of arms are probably those of a gentleman of the
Carew family ["Or, three lions passant sable."] and his wife; but
of special interest are those of the second pair of arms. The male
of the pair is clearly of the family of Dinham, of Hartland, Devon
& c. The arms of the lady in question ("Argent, three fusils
conjoined in fess gules, a bordure sable."] are those of Sir John
de Montagu, Lord Montagu (d. bef 5 Mar 1389/90), younger brother of
William, 2nd Earl of Salisbury, younger son of Sir William de
Montagu and Katherine de Grandison (see above) and husband of
Margaret de Monthermer [3].

The pairing of these arms clearly identify (without names) a
married couple, i.e. a male Dinham and a daughter of Sir John de
Montagu. This can only be Sir John de Dinham (d. 25 Dec 1428) and
his first wife, Eleanor (aka Ellen) de Montagu, the subject of
several prior SGM threads [4].

This is the first direct evidence of Sir John de Dinham’s wife
being identified as a daughter of Sir John de Montagu. In
combination with the circumstantial evidence previously provided in
the SGM posts referenced below, this identification can now be
classified as certain.

Cheers,

John *

NOTES

[1] C. E. Long, ed., Richard Symonds's Diary of the Marches of
the Royal (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1997), p. 85.


[2] Ibid. The complete text of page 85, found at the URL indicated
below, is as follows:

" 1644.]

Second window:
Quarterly FRANCE and ENGLAND, a label of three points argent.
Argent, three fusils conjoined in fess gules.
COURTENAY, with a label of three points azure.
Gules, fretty or.
Or, three lions passant in pale sable [CAREW].

Fourth window:
Or, a chevron between three escallops azure.
Argent, two bendlets wavy sable [STAPYLDON].
Ermine, three chevrons gules.
Azure, three bends argent.
Per chevron gules and sable, three keys erect, wards facing
the dexter side, or.

The picture of a monke:
Mag'r. Tho. de Hacteley me fecit.

Fifth window:
Quarterly, FRANCE and ENGLAND.
The same with a label of three points argent.
Gules, three lions passant or, a label of three points each
charged with three fleurs-de-lis or [EARLS and DUKES
OF LANCASTER].
Or, a chevron between three escallops azure.
Azure, three quatrefoils argent.
FERRERS.
Per fess gules and azure, three crescents argent.

Sixth window:
A similar coat to the last.
Argent, three fusils conjoined in fess gules, a bordure sable.
Or, three lions passant sable.
Gules, three fusils conjoined in fess ermine [DINHAM].

These are aloft in the north side of the body of the church:
A chevron between three keys erect, the wards pointing to the
dexter side or.
GRANDISON.
Argent, three chevrons sable.
MONTACUTE.
Argent, three bars gules.

Second window, beginning eastward:
MONTACUTE, with a bordure sable.
Argent, a fess sable, a bordure gules. "


URL
http://books.google.com/books?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&id=xe3pX0_tWIwC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=dinham+montacute&prev=http://books.google.com/books%3Flr%3D%26q%
3Ddinham%2Bmontacute&sig=HekYtNXl7m5uwWlmSLw1En0XvJA


[3] These arms are as described in several sources, including
Ald S. S. Campion, J.P., "Northampton Town Hall: Its Story Told
By Itself" (Northampton: W. Mark & Co. Ltd. Printer &
Publishers, 1925 ) available at

http://northamptoncastle.homeip.net/northampton/books/town%20hall/book.htm

Also see "Holy Trinity Blackburn, The Ceiling" as described at

http://members.aol.com/htblackburn/htbceiling.htm


[4] See J. Ravilious, <John Dinham (d. 1428) and his 1st wife, Elen
[Montagu ?] >, SGM, 21 Feb, 2004. J. Ravilious, <CP Addition:
Eleanor (Elena) de Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham>, SGM, 27
March 2004. J. Ravilious, <The Lady and The Crown>, SGM, 3 Sept
2005. Also note that Leo van de Pas’ website,
http://www.genealogics.org, identifies Eleanor de Montagu as
indicated (Genealogics # I00387511).


* John P. Ravilious

Tim Powys-Lybbe

unread,
Dec 18, 2005, 10:17:21 AM12/18/05
to
In message of 18 Dec, The...@aol.com wrote:

> The diary of Richard Symonds is a well known source for studies

> of the struggle between Cromwell and King Charles I in the 1640’s,

> This is the first direct evidence of Sir John de Dinham’s wife


> being identified as a daughter of Sir John de Montagu. In
> combination with the circumstantial evidence previously provided in
> the SGM posts referenced below, this identification can now be
> classified as certain.

I wonder if the windows were the wrong way round? Or perhaps that
Symonds was looking at them from the wrong side? For Symonds reports
all the apparent wives first and the husbands second? Or is he
reporting the husbands first and the wives second and the couples so
commemorated are completely different?

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          t...@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

John P. Ravilious

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Dec 18, 2005, 6:09:30 PM12/18/05
to
Dear Tim,

It appears that Symonds chose a particular direction in his
'walk-about' tour of the cathedral, and recorded the arms from that
direction. I do not believe that the marriages evidenced by the arms
are other than those known or discernible as I indicated: there would
otherwise be a host of 'mirror-image' marriages hitherto unknown.

Whether these windows (or most of them) are extant or not, I do
not know: perhaps someone else of the list has some familiarity with
Exeter (and the windows in particular) ......?

Cheers,

John


Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
> In message of 18 Dec, The...@aol.com wrote:
>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SNIP <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

John P. Ravilious

unread,
Dec 18, 2005, 6:14:23 PM12/18/05
to
Hello All,

Following is an ahnentafel for Muriel Dinham, daughter of Sir
John Dinham and Lady Eleanor (Montagu) Dinham, and wife of Sir Edward
Hastings of Elsing and Gressenhall. A more detailed AT will be posted
shortly - this is presented for simplicity's sake, to save time for
list members without a 'wholesale' interest in this ancestry.

Cheers,

John

1 Muriel Dinham.[1],[2]
died bef 1 Jul 1427.[3]

'Meryell doughter to John Denham'[HSP 16:154-156, Vis. of Yorkshire:
pedigree of Hastynges[2]]

' Muriel Dinham ', wife of Sir Edward Hastings [Genealogics I00135233
[4]]

identification as daughter of John, Lord Dinham and his first wife
Ellen
by John Ravilious ('Re: Dinham/Courtenay Correction', Society of
Medieval
Genealogy, www.rootsweb.com, 1 June 2001][5]

definitive proof of her parentage is given in the pre-nuptial
settlement, dated 20 Feb 1405-06:
" Pre-nuptial settlement dated 7 Hen IV [20 Feb 1405/06] at
'Notewill', Devon, between
Edward Lord of Hastyngges (1) and
John de Dynham, knight (2):
" Agreement between (1) and (2), that (1) shall marry Muriel (2)'s
daughter, and shall enfeoff certain persons at their choice (a lour
dieux ellection) with certain lands and tenements, to the value of
100 marks yearly, in 'which Muriel shall be jointured (iungne)
during her life, and that she shall be dowered in lands and
tenements to the yearly value of 300 marks along with that
jointure. For the marriage and jointure, (2) shall pay to (1) 400
marks (100 marks on the day of the marriage, 100 marks the
following Michaelmas, and 100 marks yearly at Michaelmas
until fully paid), provided that she is so jointured; if not, the
payments shall not be made.
Seal [fine; of (1) presumably]. [18th century?] "This
indenture is in French and contains articles of mariage
between Sr Edward Hastings and the Lady Muriell daughter
to Sr Johne Dynham."
- A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne
and Trerice, AR/37/24 dated 20 Feb 1406[3],[6],[7]

previous publications indicated in error that she was daughter of John,
Lord Dinham (d. 1382) and his wife Muriel de Courtenay [see Faris, p.
130][8]
Correctly reported in Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet Ancestry"[7]

aft 20 Feb 1405 Muriel married Sir Edward Hastings.[3],[6],[7],[9]


2 John Dinham, of Hartland, Devon & c. [died on 25 Dec 1428.]
3 Eleanor de Montagu [died ca 1394.]

4 John de Dinham, of Hartland, Devon & c.
5 Muriel de Courtenay.
6 John de Montagu, Lord Montagu [died bef 5 Mar 1389.]
7 Margaret de Monthermer, Baroness Monthermer.

8 Sir John de Dinham, of Hartland, Devon.
9 Margaret de Botreaux.
10 Sir Thomas de Courtenay, of Woodhuish and Dunterton, Devon.
11 Muriel de Moels.
12 William de Montagu, Earl of Salisbury [died 30 Jan 1343/4].
13 Katherine de Grandison.
14 Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer [k. Battle of Sluys, 24
Jun 1340].
15 Margaret de Braose.

16 Sir Josce de Dinham.
17 Margaret de Hydon.
18 William de Botreaux, of Boscastle, Cornwall.
19 NN.
20 Sir Hugh de Courtenay, Earl of Devon [died on 23 Dec 1340].
21 Agnes de Saint John.
22 Sir John de Moels.
23 Joan Lovel.
24 William de Montagu, Lord Montagu.
25 Elizabeth de Montfort.
26 Sir William de Grandison, Lord Grandison.
27 Sybil de Tregoz.
28 Sir Ralph de Monthermer, Lord Monthermer.
29 Joan 'of Acre' of England. [She m. 1st, Gilbert de Clare]
30 Piers de Braose, of Tetbury, co. Glocs. [died bef 7 Feb 1311.]
31 Agnes.


32 Sir Oliver de Dinham.
33 Isabel de Vere. [m. lstly Sir John de Courtenay]
34 Sir Richard de Hydon.
35 Isabel de Fissacre.
36 William de Botreaux.
37 Dionisia de Champernoun.
38 NN.
39 NN.
40 Sir Hugh de Courtenay, of Oakhampton, Devon. [died on 28 Feb 1291]
41 Eleanor le Despenser.
42 John de Saint John, of Basing, Hants. [died bef 30 Sep 1302.]
43 Alice Fitz Reynold.
44 Sir John de Moels, Lord Moels. [died 20 May 1310]
45 Maud de Grey.
46 Sir Richard Lovel, Lord Lovel. [died 31 Jan 1350/51]
47 Muriel de Soulis.
48 Simon de Montagu, Lord Montagu.
49 Hawise de St. Amand.
50 Piers de Montfort, of Beaudesert, co. Warwick.
51 Matilda de la Mare.
52 Pierre de Grandison.
53 Agnes de Neuchatel.
54 John de Tregoz, Lord Tregoz.
55 Mabel FitzWarin.
56 NN [de Monthermer]
57 NN
58 Edward I, King of England 1272-1307.
59 Eleanor of Castile.
60 Sir William de Braose, Lord Braose. [died bef 6 Jan 1290/1]
61 Mary de Ros.
62 NN.
63 NN.

The...@aol.com wrote:
> Saturday, 17 December, 2005
>
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> The diary of Richard Symonds is a well known source for studies
> of the struggle between Cromwell and King Charles I in the 1640's,
> but also supplies some interesting non-military information. This
> includes a detailed description of the windows of Exeter Cathedral,
> including in some cases the family names of those whose arms are
> depicted, shown as being recorded in 1644. These are most likely
> the arms of individuals (in most cases, married couples) who were
> benefactors of the cathedral.

>>>>>>>>>> SNIP <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

mhol...@mac.com

unread,
Dec 18, 2005, 6:45:40 PM12/18/05
to
I have #31 as Agnes de Clifford, the daughter of Roger de Clifford and
Mahaut de Courtenay, Countess de Loretto. Sources: "Whose Son was
Peter de Braose?" by F.N. Craig, NEHGR 150 (1996):315-324; "Magna
Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families" by Douglas
Richardson (GPC, Baltimore, 2005). Is this not correct?

John P. Ravilious

unread,
Dec 18, 2005, 7:11:36 PM12/18/05
to
Dear Martin,

I'm not familiar with the Craig article. Doug Richardson (Magna
Carta, p. 814) identifies her ('Agnes') as Agnes de Clifford, widow of
Henry Hussey/Husee, but without parentage.

There may be information in the SGM archives on the
identification you note - perhaps someone else of the list more
knowledgeable on the issue could chime in?

Cheers,

John

The...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 18, 2005, 7:25:19 PM12/18/05
to
Sunday, 18 December, 2005


Hello All,

Part II of III.

Cheers,

John

___________________________________

Muriel (Dinham) Hastings: Ahnentafel (part II of III)

16 Sir Josce de Dinham.

Born bef 26 Feb 1274.[9],[43]
died on 30 Mar 1300, he was 26.[9]

knight, of Hartland, Devon, Buckland Denham, Somerset and Cardinham,
Cornwall[9]
2nd Lord Dinham

'He and w. Margaret hold Hydon and Clyst Manors, Devon, as 6 1/2 Kt.
Fees, late of Hugh de Curtenay, 24 Mar. 1292 (Inq.)' Knights I:296[44]

he evidently was going on pilgrimage in 1300, before approval of his
directions issued at Evesham, 25 March 1301:
' Letter for Joceus de Dynham, gone beyond seas, nominating Peter de
Fishacre his attorney for one year. ' [CPR 1292-1301, p. 581[32]]

The inquisitions post mortem for Sir Josce ['Joyce de Dynham'] include:
' Cornwall. Inq. 20 June, 29 Edw. I [1301].
Cardynan. The manor...including two birds' worth 6d. at Michaelmas,
the pasture of Greneburgh, land in Treuerdre, lands held by the prior of
Trewerdray and 6s. 8d. rent for the moor of Fouwy, held of the king in
chief, together with the manors of Botardel and Douneghny in the same
county, by the service of 32 little knights' fees.'[45] [cited in brief
by Dugdale, Baronage of England[43]]

Assignment [ " to Thomas, bishop of Exeter, Hugh, abbot of Hayles, William
de Bereford and Walter de Aylesbury, executors of the will of Edmund, earl
of Cornwall, the king's kinsman, in part payment of the king's indebtedness
to the earl of 9,480 1/2 marks 10 1/4d.," ] of custody of his lands during
the minority of his heir, made at Peebles [Scot.] 2 Aug. 1301:
' from 8 September next, and during the minority of the heirs, of two parts
of the lands late of Joyce de Dynham, tenant in chief, together with the
marriage of the heirs, worth 2,000 marks; saving to the king knights' fees,
&c., as above.
By K[ing]., on the information of W., bishop of Coventry and Lichfield.
Mandate in pursuance to Walter de Gloucestre, escheator beyond Trent.
Mandate to Margery, late the wife of the said Joyce, to deliver the body
of the heir of the said Joyce, which is said to be in her custody, to the
said executors to be married. ' [CPR 1292-1301, p. 603[32]]

cf. CP IV:372[9]
Richardson p. 284[9]

bef 24 Mar 1292 when Sir Josce was 18, he married Margaret de Hydon.[44]


17 Margaret de Hydon.
died on 15 May 1357.[9]
Buried in St. Katherine's chapel, Hemyock, Devon.[42]

had the manor of Hemyock, Devon as her maritagium or inheritance[46]

grant of gift of the marriage of Margaret de Hydon, heiress of Sir Richard
de Hydon, by Hugh de Courtenay to Sir Oliver de Dinham, dated 12 Apr 1288
(Monday before Sts Tiburtius and Valerian, 16 Edw [I]); at Notewill [Nutwell
Court] - A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], Dinham: AR/37/5[3]

she and her husband Josce de Dinham held ' Hydon and Clyst
Manors, Devon, as 6 1/2 Kt. Fees, late of Hugh de
Curtenay, 24 Mar. 1292 (Inq.)' Knights I:296[44]

'Thomas de Whiteleye was later instituted as rector of Hemyock in 1321,
patron Margaret de Dynham (Register of Bishop Stapledon, 1308-26 p. 221). '


- A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice

[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121][3]

' Lady Margaret who was wife of Sir John de Dyneham, knight ',
gave the manor of Bodardel, Cornwall to her grandson John, Lord
Dinham under Agreement for adjustment of dower, 29 Mar 1343
[Saturday after Annunciation, 23 Edw III ]


- A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice

[AR/1/1 - AR/1/527] , AR/1/397[3]

Note: record of a petition to the Pope, Jul 1346, concerns Margaret de
Botreaux, her daughter-in-law, as it identifies her 'legitimate sons,
John de Dynham, knight, and Oliver de Dynham ' [Papal Petition I:114[21],
cites f. 117]. Margaret de Hydon's son Sir John had died in 1332, so this
could not have been her petition.

'Dame Margaret de Uredale [sic]', held the manor and advowson of Moreleigh,
1350; 1354 [F. B. Prideaux, Gen. Mag. VII:537, cites Episcopal Registers
of Exeter[47]]

'In the late 13th Century, Margaret Hidon inherited the Manors of Hemyock
and Clayhidon from her father Sir Richard Hidon, and the Manors of
Morleigh and Storridge from her mother Isabel (née Fisacre).'[49]
[cf. F. B. Prideaux, Gen. Mag. VII:537, re: manor and advowson of
Moreleigh[47]]

cf. CP IV:372[9]
Richardson p. 284[42]


18 William de Botreaux.
Born bef 1275.[50]
died ca 1342, he was 67.[9]

of Boscastle, Cornwall

b. before 1275 (acc. to Maclean, p. 634, his father died in 1302,
" succeeded by his son and heir William (VI), then aged
27 and more."[50])

Charters for a market ( Thur ) and fair (vfm, Assumption - 15 Aug) at
Lelant, Cornwall granted by King Edward II to William son of William
de Botereux, 25 Aug 1296: 'To be held at the manor '
(CChR, 1257–1300, p. 465).[15]

assessment of a feudal aid, for the hundred of Kynemerdeston, Somerset in
1303:
' Willelmus Botreaux et Johannes Page tenent un. f. in Babington de Thoma
Appadam [ap Adam]. ' [Feudal Aids IV:310[22]]

' Wm. de Botriaus ', witness to a grant by Henry de Bodrugan, dated at
Bodrugan, 28 January 1306 [ A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Edgcumbe of
Cotehele and Mount Edgcumbe [ME/1 - ME/1539], ME/642[3]]

Charters for a market ( Wed ) and fair (vfm, James the Apostle - 25 Jul) at
Boscastle, Cornwall granted by King Edward II to William son of William
de Botereux, 16 Aug 1312: 'To be held at the manor ' (CChR, 1300–26,
p. 194).[15]

F (Prescriptive) feria recorded 1302, held by William de Botereus (QW,
p. 108). William successfully claimed that his ancestors had held the fair
from time out of mind. '[15]

' William de Botriaux , witness together with Henry de Champernoun and
others to a Lease for term of 5 years [grant of wardship of land during
minority] by John de Wylyngton, lord of Conerton, to Sir Thomas
l'Ercedekne 'by reason of the minority of the son of John de Arundel ',
dated at Launceston, Friday after Trinity, 6 Edw II (15 Jun 1313) [A2A,


Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice

[AR/4/1 - AR/4/1003], AR/4/347[3]]

Genealogics #I00177716[4]

cf. CP I:241[9]


20 Sir Hugh de Courtenay.
died on 23 Dec 1340, he was 64.[20]
Born on 14 Sep 1276.[51],[9]
Buried in Cowick priory, near Exeter, Devon.[51]
Occupation: Earl of Devon.

of Oakhampton [Okehampton], Devon (succeeded father 28 Feb 1291/92).
Succeeded cousin Isabel, Countess of Aumale and Devon, in Reviers estates
not then alienated, 10 Nov 1293.

' Hughe de Courteneye ', knight, serving with the army of King Edward I
in Scotland; fought at the Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298
: his arms are recorded as
' Or three torteaux a label azure ' (Falkirk Roll H115[52])

Summoned to Parliament from 6 Feb 1298/99 to 24 Jul 1334 by writs directed
'Hugoni de Curtenay', whereby held to have become Lord Courtenay.

assessment of a feudal aid, for the hundred of Kynemerdeston, Somerset in
1303:
' Hugo de Curtenay tenet de domino rege i. c. di. f. in Hemyngton. '
[Feudal Aids IV:310[22]]

acquired lands in Woodhuish, Devon for his son Robert (who
evidently d.v.p.; then were given to son Thomas):
' Hugh [de] Curteney ', deforciant in a fine of 8 Edw II [Trinity term, 1315
]:
Final concord between Thomas de Cyrencestr' and Emma his wife,
claimants (1)-(2) and Hugh [de] Curteney, deforciant (3) :
" (1)-(2), through John le Palmere in (2)'s place, against (3), concerning
1 messuage, 1 mill, 2 carrucates of land, 3 acres of meadow, 6 acres
of wood and 1 lb of cummin rent, in Wodehywish, Lidewyston
[Boohay, in Brixham parish] and Reftercumbe [Raddicombe, in
Brixham parish]. (1) acknowledged them to be the right of (3),
as by (1)'s gift; and for this (3) granted them to (1)-(2), to hold
of the chief lords of the fee, by services belonging, during their
lives; with remainder, after their deaths, to Robert son of (3)
and his heirs of body; in default of such heirs, remainder to
Thomas, Robert's brother, and his heirs.
{ Found stuck to 19th-century wrapper with AR/1/642. }


- A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice

[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/643[3]

~ Robert d. without heirs, and the lands of Woodhuish were inherited
by Thomas de Courtenay as remainderman [see #10 above]

' Hugh de Courteneye ', summoned for military service 20 February
1324/5 - to appear at Portsmouth 'mounted and armed' - in France, by
letters under privy seal of King Edward II [ Foedera, pp. 591-2[34]]

By letters patent 22 Feb 1334/35, King Edward III declared him Earl of
Devon[9]

In 1292 when Sir Hugh was 15, he married Agnes de Saint John.[9]


21 Agnes de Saint John.

died on 11 Jun 1345.[20]
Buried in Cowick, near Exeter.[51]


22 Sir John de Moels.

Born bef 17 Sep 1304.[44],[9]
died in d.s.p.m. bef 21 Aug 1337, he was 32.[9]
Occupation: Lord Moels.

of Maperton and North Cadbury, Somerset, King's Carswell, Diptford and
Langford, Devon and Over Worton, co. Oxon[9]
4th Lord Moels (succeeded brother Roger, 3rd Lord)[9]

b. aft 8 May 1302 [King Edward I presented to the living at Maperton,
Somerset 8 May 1323, in minority of the heir of Roger de Moels, d. 1316]
and before 17 Sept 1304 [livery of the lands of Roger de Moels to his
brother John, 17 Sept 1325 - Close Rolls] - Knights III:161[44]

Sir John married Joan Lovel.


23 Joan Lovel.

cf. CP VIII:205 [sub _Lovel_ ][9]


24 William de Montagu.
died on 18 Oct 1319 in Gascony.[39]
Occupation: Lord Montagu.

of Shipton Montague, Somerset

served in the siege of Stirling, May 1304
knighted with Prince Edward, 22 May 1306
2nd Lord Montagu

cf. CP IX: 80-2[9]

seneschal of Gascony, 20 Nov 1318-18 Oct 1319 (CP IX:81-2)[9]

aft 20 Jun 1292 William married Elizabeth de Montfort.[9]


25 Elizabeth de Montfort.
died in Aug 1354.[9]
Buried in Priory of St. Frideswide [Christ Church], Oxford.[9]

called Elizabeth in her inquisitions p.m. (CP V:582-3, notes, sub
Furnivalle)[9]

' In her deed of 1348 she ordained prayers for (among others) her parents,
her children John de Montagu (d. young), William, late Earl of Salisbury,
Simon, late Bishop of Ely (d. 1345), Edward de Montagu, Alice de Aubeney,
Lady Mary Cogan, Elizabeth, prioress of Halliwell, Hawise Bavent, Maud,
abbess of Barking, Isabel, nun of Barking (later abbess), for her 2nd
husband and for her kinsman Piers de Limesey (Cartul. of St. Frideswide,
vol. ii, pp. 4, 9). ' [CP IX:82-3, note (f)[9]]

she m. lstly William de Montagu
2ndly Sir Thomas de Furnival[9]

'Elizabeth de Mountague', petition for the lands of Worksop, Aug 1354 or
later [dated erroneously ca. 1352]:
SC 8/48/2356
Petitioners: Thomas de Furnival Addressees: King and council Places
mentioned: Worksop, [Nottinghamshire]; Sherwood Forest, [Nottinghamshire]
Other people mentioned: Elizabeth de Montague Nature of request: The
petitioner states that Elizabeth de Mountague died seised of the manor
of Worksop with the Park (near Sherwood Forest) in dower for the term
of her life of the heritage of the petitioner.
[c. 1352][27]


26 Sir William de Grandison.
Born in Lake Neufchatel, Suisse.[39]
died on 27 Jun 1335.[39]
Buried in Dore Abbey. Occupation: Lord Grandison.

knight, of Lambourn, co. Berks., and Ashperton and Eaton, co. Hereford
received from brother (Othon) the castle and town of Kilfeacle, the manor
of Kilsheelan and the town of Clonmel 16 July 1290
received charter for the manor of Minsterworth, Glocs. from Edmund, Earl
of Lancaster 27 Dec 1282

Governor of Jersey and Guernsey, 1290. seigneur de Grandison (Neufchatel)

' William de Granson ', knight, serving with the army of King Edward I
in Scotland; fought at the Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298
: his arms are recorded as
' Paly of six argent and azure on a bend gules three eagles
displayed or ' (Falkirk Roll H90[52])

summoned to Parliament from 6 Feb 1298/99 to 10 Oct 1325 by writs
directed 'Willelmo de Grandisono', whereby held to have become Lord
Grandison[9]

his IPM included the manor of Lambourn, co. Berks (R. Bevan, citing
CIPM v.7 no.676[53])

abt 1285 Sir William married Sybil de Tregoz.


27 Sybil de Tregoz.
Born in 1270 in Ewyas, co. Hereford.[39]
died on 12 Oct 1334, she was 64.[39]
Buried in Dore Abbey.

2nd daughter and coheiress.

Lands of Sir John Tregoz ordered to be divided between his heirs,
26 Nov 1300[9] [her portion evidently included Lambourn, co. Berks
or a moiety thereof][54]

she inherited half of the barony of Ewyas Harold, co. Hereford[55]

probably 2nd wife of William de Grandison[56]


28 Ralph de Monthermer.
Born abt 1262.[1]
died on 5 Apr 1325, he was 63.[9]
Buried in Grey Friars', Salisbury.[9]
Occupation: Lord Monthermer.

Earl of Gloucester and Hertford (summoned to Parliament as such, Aug 1297)
earldoms passed to stepson, Gilbert de Clare following death of wife Joan,
23 Apr 1307

' Rauf de Monthermer, conte de Gloucestre ', knight, serving with the
army of King Edward I in Scotland; fought at Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298
: his arms are recorded as
' Or an eagle displayed vert ' (Falkirk Roll H98[52])

' Radulphus de Monte Hermerij Comes Gloucestr & Hertford ',
third of the barons who sealed the
Barons' Letter to the Pope, February 1301 (in response to the Scots letter
to Boniface VIII in 1298, defying the claimed English superiority) following
the Parliament at Lincoln, 13-20 Jan 1300/1[57]

summoned to Parliament as Lord Monthermer;

fought at Battle of Bannockburn, 24/5 June 1314 (captured by Scots, released
by King Robert) [1],[58]

he m. 1stly (as 2nd husband) Joan 'of Acre',
2ndly (as 3rd husband) Isabel le Despenser[9]

cf. CP IX:140-142[9]

In Jan 1297 when Ralph was 35, he married Joan 'of Acre' of England.


29 Joan 'of Acre' of England.

Born in 1272 in Acre, kingdom of Jerusalem.[1]
died in Clare, Suffolk on 23 Apr 1307, she was 35.[1]
Buried in Augustinian priory, Clare.

Countess of Gloucester and Hertford (2nd wife of Gilbert de Clare)

she m. lstly Gilbert de Clare,
2ndly Ralph de Monthermer[9]


30 Piers de Braose.
died bef 7 Feb 1311.[42],[9]

of Tetbury, co. Gloucester & c.[9]

cf. Richardson p. 814[42]

aft 6 Jun 1300 Piers married Agnes.[42]


31 Agnes.

possibly Agnes de Clifford

cf. Richardson, p. 814[42]


[ to be continued - see Part III ]

The...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 18, 2005, 7:28:45 PM12/18/05
to
Sunday, 18 December, 2005


Hello All,

Part III of IV [originally intended as last of III].

Cheers,

John


___________________________________

Muriel (Dinham) Hastings: Ahnentafel (part III of IV)


32 Sir Oliver de Dinham.
Born bef 26 Dec 1234.[9],[43]
died on 26 Feb 1298, he was 63.[9]
Buried in Church of the Black Friars, Exeter.[51]
Occupation: Lord Dinham.

knt., of Hartland, Nutwell and Ilsington, Devon, Buckland Denham,
Somerset and Cardinham, Cornwall

purchased the manors of Nutwell and Harpford, Devon from the monks of Dinan,
1273 [Chope p. 424[26], cites Les Dinan, 175]

' Oliver de Dynam ', had charters for a Tuesday market, and fair (to be held
at the Feast of St. Necton, 17 June) at Hartland, granted 3 July 1281 by
King Edward I, ' to Oliver de Dynam. To be held at the manor of Herctone '
(CChR, 1257–1300, p. 253) [On 9 May 1393, K Ric II confirmed to John Dynham,
kinsman and heir of Oliver Dynham, now tenant of the manor, the grant of a
market to Oliver Dynham in 1281 (CPR, 1391–6, p. 262).'][15][cf. inspeximus
and confirmation, CPR 16 Ric II, Part III, pp. 262-3[10]]

' Sir Oliver de Dinham ', witness (together with Sir Ralph Pippard and others)
to a charter of Edmund, earl of Cornwall to the brethren of the church at
Esserugge, confirmed at Swanston, 5 Nov 1285 [CCR 13 Edw I II:324-5, mem
2[60]]

' Oliver de Dynham ', had charters for a fair (to be held at the Feast of
St. Andrew, 30 Nov) at Hartland, granted 20 Feb 1286 by King Edward I,
' to Oliver de Dynham. To be held at the manor ' (CChR, 1257–1300, p. 329)
[On 9 May 1393, K Ric II confirmed to John Dynham, kinsman and heir of
Oliver Dynham, now tenant of the manor, the grant of a fair to Oliver Dynham
in 1286 (CPR, 1391–6, p. 262).'][15]

'Oliver de Dinant ', knight
: his arms are recorded ca. 1285 as
' Gules a fess indented ermine ' (St. George's Roll E126[61])

Double (mutual) grant and quitclaim dated St Nicholas, 16 Edw I [6 Dec 1287],
between Desiderata who was wife of Peter Stoel (1) and
Oliver de Dynam (2):
Bipartite indenture: (1) to (2), grant and quitclaim of all her right
in the lands and tenements of Scepwasse and Oppechote, with
all homages, rents and services, etc., of free and bond men of
Scepwasse [ Sheepwash ] and Oppekote [Upcott, in
Sheepwash parish], and the homage, rent and services of Robert
de Stokhaye, John de Steueneston, Walter de Kotingechote and
William de Sordechote [Swaddicott, in Sheepwash parish], and
all appurtenances and escheats from them; for (2) and his heirs
to hold of (1) freely and hereditarily for ever; rent to (1) 1 rose
at the Nativity of St John Baptist, for all services, suits and
demands; warranty.
For this, (2) has granted and quitclaimed to (1) all his right
in the demesne of Oppecote, and all his right by gift of Robert
Cnoel of the tenements currently held by Joan de Horton (que
Johanna de Horton tenet) as dower in Oppecote, Scepwasse
[ Sheepwash ], Esse and Braworth'; (2) has also granted to
(1) and her heirs for ever the land currently held by Joel de
Badek'weye, with his services, and the land currently held by
Richard de Oppecote and the relict of John the Smith (fabri);
rent to (2) 13s silver yearly at 4 terms, for all service and
demand except foreign and royal service; warranty.
Witnesses: Sir Robert de Dynam, Sir Peter de Fissacre,
Sir Peter de Chalouns, Sir Ralph son of Richard, Sir Richard
de Poltimore, knights, William le Graunt, Baldwin de
Specote, Richard Coffin, Philip Giffard.
Slits for tag of seal; [medieval] "Schepwas".


- A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice

[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/627[3] [Oliver de Dinham called 'Sir
George Oliver, Monasticon Dioecesis Exoniensis de Dynam' in error -
insertion of name of noted author, w/ 'Oliver' in his name]

had grant of gift of the marriage of Margaret de Hydon, heiress of Sir Richard
de Hydon, dated 12 Apr 1288 (Monday before Sts Tiburtius and Valerian,
16 Edw [I]); at Notewill [Nutwell Court, Woodbury]:
Grant of gift of marriage:
Hugh de Curteney, lord of Ok'ton = (1)
Sir Oliver de Dynam = (2)
(1) to (2), for £100 silver, the right to give Margaret, daughter and heir
of Sir Richard de Hydon, in marriage, until she is of full age; warranty.
[Witnesses :] Sir Henry de Ralegh, Sir Richard de Poltimore, Sir Robert
de Dynam, Sir Peter de Chalons, Sir Thomas Franceys, Sir Thomas Gona, Sir
Roger de Logys.
Seal. [18th century?] Grant from Hugh Courtenay lord of Occkhampton unto
sr Olliver of the marriage of Margaret daughter and heiress of Richard
Heydon for 100 li. silver.
National Register of Archives. List C, no 325.' [A2A, Cornwall Record


Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/17 - AR/50], Dinham: AR/37/5[3]

]

entered into agreement with his stepson Sir Hugh de Courtenay re: his rights
to the dower of his deceased wife, Lady Isabel (de Vere) de Courtenay,
7 Jan 1290/1 [CP IV:323[9] says in error, she was 'living Feb. 1298/9'][62]:
' Resolution of dispute dated Morrow of Epiphany, 19 Edw I (7 Jan 1290/1):
Sir Hugh de Cortenay = (1)
Sir Oliver de Dynham = (2)
Resolution of disagreements between (1), heir and principal
executor of testament of Sir John de Cortenay (deceased),
plaintiff, and (2), executor of the testament of Lady Isabel
de Cortenay (deceased), concerning debts touching both testaments,
towards the lord king or anyone else, and concerning purchases of
clearance (excirpamenti) and waste, houses (domorum), parks,
woods, and all tenements or men which (2) and Lady Isabel,
(1)'s mother, held of (1)'s inheritance as dower in Lady Isabel's
name, thus. (2) is bound to (1) in £100, to be paid at dates to
be arranged, for all debts and purchases touching the testaments
or wastes;
Concerning the remainder of (1)'s petition, both (1) and (2) are
subject to the order of Peter [Quinel], Bishop of Exeter, and of
the dean of Exeter, thus. Whatever sum the bishop and dean shall
decide that (2) should pay to (1) in excess of the said £100, he
is bound to (1) in that exactly; and if they decide nothing, then
he is not bound in any further sum. With this reservation, that
(1) shall allow to (2) as part payment whatever he shall receive
from the goods of Lady Isabel through the hands of her executors,
and whatever else would rightly be assigned to (2).
(1) releases to (2) and his co-executors, on behalf of himself and
his co-executors of testament of Sir John de Cortenay, the said
actions and all others which might arise from that testament, and
are bound to indemnify (2) and his co-executors as regards it.
(2) binds himself and his heirs to make the payment and keep the
agreement. (2) is also bound to restore to (1) the value of all
autumn works which he had after the death of Lady Isabel in her
dower lands for collecting corn and helping.
Seal [broken]. [Contemporary?] "Scriptum allocat' solutori et
soluendo". [A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], AR/37/6[3]]

summoned to Parliament from 24 Jun 1295, writ directed 'Olivere de Dynham',
held thereby to have become Lord Dinham[9]
2nd husband of Isabel de Vere, widow of John de Courtenay(d. 3 May 1274);
m. before 24 Jan 1276/77

cf. CP IV:323[9]

bef 24 Jan 1276 when Sir Oliver was 41, he married Isabel de Vere.[9]


33 Isabel de Vere.
died bef 7 Jan 1290.[62],[3],[9]
Buried in Church of the Black Friars, Exeter.[51]

she m. lstly Sir John de Courtenay,
2ndly Sir Oliver de Dinham[9]
__________________________________

her identification as the mother of Sir Josce de Dinham was
shown by Douglas Richardson:
'A few years after the death of Sir Oliver de Dynham, his son, Josce's
son and heir, John de Dynham, came of age. This took place in 1316.
Shortly before John obtained livery of his father's lands, Hugh de
Courtenay (grandson of Isabel de Vere) wrote a letter to William de
Airmyn dated c. September 1316, in which he requested assistance for
his kinsman, John de Dynham, now of age, in obtaining seisin of his
lands [Reference: List of Ancient Correspondence, Lists and Indexes,
No. XV, reprinted 1968, pg. 552; cf. Index to Ancient Correspondence
of the Chancery and the Exchequer, 1 (Lists and Indexes, Supplementary
Series, No. XV) (reprinted 1969), pp. 308, 351]. The King
subsequently took John de Dynham's homage, and he had livery of his
father's lands, 18 October 1316.'[33]

The relationship between John de Dinham and Hugh de Courtenay was that
of first cousins (of the half-blood):

Sir John de Courtenay = Isabel de Vere = Sir Oliver de Dinham
of Okehampton I d. bef I of Hartland, Devon
d. 3 May 1273 I 7 Jan 1290/91 I d. 26 Feb 1298/99
___________________I I___
I I
Hugh de Courtenay = Eleanor le Sir Josce = Margaret
d. b 28 Feb 1291/92 I Despenser de Dinham I de Hydon
________________I d. 30 Mar 1300/01 I
I ___________I
I I
Sir Hugh de = Agnes de Sir John de Dinham = Margaret de
Courtenay St. John d. bef 15 Apr 1332 Botreaux
Earl of Devon
d. 1340

previously, based on chronology in CP, Isabel de Vere was not identified
as the mother of Josce de Dinham[9]
______________________________________

her dower included Newton Poppleford, Devon and 'Aylebeare': concerning
which, her son Hugh de Courtenay had evidently contested her rights.
' In 1281–2, Hugh de Curtenay stated that a market at ‘Nywanton’ had been
held by his ancestors as part of the barony of Okehampton, but that neither
he nor Oliver de Dynham and Isabella his wife, who were holding ‘Aylebere’
and ‘Nyeweton’ in dower of the inheritance of Hugh de Curtenay, now claimed
a market at ‘Nyweton’ (QW, pp. 171, 178).'[15]

she d. before 7 Jan 1290/1 [CP IV:323[9] says in error, she was
'living Feb. 1298/9'][62]:
' Resolution of dispute dated Morrow of Epiphany, 19 Edw I (7 Jan 1290/1):
Sir Hugh de Cortenay = (1)
Sir Oliver de Dynham = (2)
Resolution of disagreements between (1), heir and principal
executor of testament of Sir John de Cortenay (deceased),
plaintiff, and (2), executor of the testament of Lady Isabel
de Cortenay (deceased), concerning debts touching both testaments,
towards the lord king or anyone else, and concerning purchases of
clearance (excirpamenti) and waste, houses (domorum), parks,
woods, and all tenements or men which (2) and Lady Isabel,
(1)'s mother, held of (1)'s inheritance as dower in Lady Isabel's
name, thus. (2) is bound to (1) in £100, to be paid at dates to
be arranged, for all debts and purchases touching the testaments
or wastes;
Concerning the remainder of (1)'s petition, both (1) and (2) are
subject to the order of Peter [Quinel], Bishop of Exeter, and of
the dean of Exeter, thus. Whatever sum the bishop and dean shall
decide that (2) should pay to (1) in excess of the said £100, he
is bound to (1) in that exactly; and if they decide nothing, then
he is not bound in any further sum. With this reservation, that
(1) shall allow to (2) as part payment whatever he shall receive
from the goods of Lady Isabel through the hands of her executors,
and whatever else would rightly be assigned to (2).
(1) releases to (2) and his co-executors, on behalf of himself and
his co-executors of testament of Sir John de Cortenay, the said
actions and all others which might arise from that testament, and
are bound to indemnify (2) and his co-executors as regards it.
(2) binds himself and his heirs to make the payment and keep the
agreement. (2) is also bound to restore to (1) the value of all
autumn works which he had after the death of Lady Isabel in her
dower lands for collecting corn and helping.
Seal [broken]. [Contemporary?] "Scriptum allocat' solutori et
soluendo". [A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], AR/37/6[3]]


34 Sir Richard de Hydon.

died bef 12 Apr 1288.[3],[44]

of Clyst Hidon, Clayhidon and Hemyock, Devon[9]

'Mackham and Madford (in Hemyock) appear as a single holding in the IPM of
Richard de Hidon, a descendant of Robert Foliot, who held a share of
Hemyock (IPM, ii, no 590; OJR, Supp, p39). '[46]

' Sir Richard de Hidon ', witness (together with others) to the gift of
pasture and watering rights by Hugh de Peuerel, lord of Taleton to Robert
le Engleys, 1 Aug 1282 - A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of
Lanherne and Trerice [AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], Talaton manor: AR/1/1047[3]

d. before 12 April 1288:
' Grant of gift of marriage, dated Monday before Sts Tiburtius and Valerian,
16 Edw [I]); at Notewill [Nutwell Court, Woodbury], 12 April 1288:
Hugh de Curteney, lord of Ok'ton = (1)
Sir Oliver de Dynam = (2)
(1) to (2), for £100 silver, the right to give Margaret, daughter and heir
of Sir Richard de Hydon, in marriage, until she is of full age; warranty.
[Test:] Sir Henry de Ralegh, Sir Richard de Poltimore, Sir Robert de
Dynam, Sir Peter de Chalons, Sir Thomas Franceys, Sir Thomas Gona, Sir Roger
de Logys.
Seal. [18th century?] Grant from Hugh Courtenay lord of Occkhampton
unto sr Olliver of the marriage of Margaret daughter and heiress of Richard
Heydon for 100 li. silver.
Related Material = National Register of Archives. List C, no 325. '
[A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], AR/37/5[3]]

[ he was previously known to hav d. bef 24 March 1291/2 :
his daughter Margaret and her husband Josce de Dinham then


held ' Hydon and Clyst Manors, Devon, as 6 1/2 Kt. Fees,

late of Hugh de Curtenay, 24 Mar. 1292 (Inq.)' [Knights I:296[44]]

Sir Richard married Isabel de Fissacre.


35 Isabel de Fissacre.
died aft 1327.[47],[3]

'Isabella de Fissacre', held the manor and advowson of Moreleigh, 1328

[F. B. Prideaux, Gen. Mag. VII:537, cites Episcopal Registers of Exeter[47]]

' Isabel de Fyssacre ', patron of the church of Morleigh:
" William de Wynkeaultone, instituted to parish of Morleghe
[Devon] in 1328 (patron Isabel de Fyssacre), Reg. Grandisson, III,
1264 " - A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and
Trerice [AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/631 dated 25 Aug 1346[3]


36 William de Botreaux.
Born bef 1242.[50]
died bef 25 Aug 1296, he was 54.[15]

of Boscastle, Cornwall and Babington, Somerset

succeeded his father before 7 Oct 1285:
Grant to William de Botereus dated at Winchester, 7 Oct 1285:
' Grant to William de Botereus, and his heirs, of free warren in all his
demesne lands in Babinton and Kinemeresdon, co. Somerset, and in Mouland,
co. Devon: grant also of a yearly fair at his manor of Babinton on the
vigil, the feast and the morrow of St. Margaret the Virgin. ' [CCR 13
Edw I, II:324, mem. 2[60]; dates are 19-21 July acc. to A2A, Somerset
Archive and Record Service: Miscellaneous Somerset documents, DD\X\SKG/26[3]
(cites CChR, 1257-1300, p. 324)[15]]

' William de Botereux ', identified as father of the grantee of charters for
a market and fair at Boscastle, dated 16 Aug 1312 and at Lelant, Cornwall
dated 25 Aug 1296[15]

Genealogics #I00177715[4]

William married Dionisia de Champernoun.


37 Dionisia de Champernoun.

Re: Dionisia de Champernoun and her parentage, Ronny Bodine wrote:
' Vivian (p. 160) names John, Reginald and Henry [but not William] as
sons of Sir Henry de Campo Arnulphi and his wife Dionisia, although this
writer
believes he misidentified another John with the priest of the same name. In
addition, Vivian named two daughters, Dionisia, wife of Sir William Bottreaux
and Margaret, wife of Otho Bodrigan. Sir William Bottreaux, of Worthevale,
Penhale, Crackhampton and Botylet, co. Cornwall was born in 1242 and died 1302
(Trigg, 1: 634). Pole (Devon, p. 427) reports he held Cadbury and
Stockleigh-English in free-marriage with Dionisia, but the evidence for this
has not been found. In fact, Stockleigh-English was held by William
Champernoun (viz. no. 10) who presented there in May 1344.'[63]


40 Sir Hugh de Courtenay.
died on 28 Feb 1291, he was 39.[9]
Born on 25 Mar 1251.[51]
Buried in Cowick priory, Devon.[51]

baron of Oakhampton, Devon[9]

also held Newton Poppleford, Devon (part of Aylesbury), which his
mother had in dower, ca 1281/2 [QW, pp. 171, 178)[15]]

His IPM (1292) makes reference to his having held a fair. He had made claims
earlier (noted above) that no fair had been held by himself or his mother,
' However, in 1292 Hugh de Curtenay was holding a fair at Aylesbeare,
possibly associated with ‘the township of la Nywaton’. Profits of a fair
at the manor of Aylesbeare were noted in 1292 (CIPM, iii, nos. 31, 65).'[15]

Sir Hugh married Eleanor le Despenser.


41 Eleanor le Despenser.
died on 30 Sep 1328.[9]


42 John de Saint John. John died bef 30 Sep 1302.[9]

knight, of Basing, Hants.
one of the magnates en route with Edward I in France and Spain (1286).

One of the Auditors on behalf of King Edward at the trial of the claims
to the crown of Scotland, 1292

seneschal of Aquitaine 1294; captured by French forces ca. 1296, released
in 1297[9]

his arms: ' Argent on a chief gules two mullets or '
[the arms of his son ' Johan de Sein Johan, le fiz ', knight,
recorded in the Falkirk Roll of those who
fought at the Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298, as ' Argent
on a chief gules two mullets or a label azure ' (Falkirk Roll H106[52])]
_____________________


he evidently has a genealogical link to King Edward I of England and
his brother Edmund. Douglas Richardson wrote,
' Dear Newsgroup:

I've located two references in the medieval source, Foedera, in which
Edmund, Earl of Lancaster (younger son of King Henry III of England)
refers to Sir John de St. John as his "cousin" [see abstracts below].
I haven't made an attempt to determine the exact nature of the kinship
involved, but I presume it comes through John de St. John's maternal
grandmother, Milicent (de Gournay) de Cantelowe. Milicent de Gournay
has many descendants, among them being Milicent de Cantelowe, wife of
Eudes la Zouche, of recent topic here on the newsgroup.

If anyone has any particulars which might identity the kinship between
Earl Edmund and John de St. John, I'd appreciate it if they would post
their information here on the newsgroup. Thanks!

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: royala...@msn.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Foedera, 1 (1816): 793
Available online at Anglo-Norman On-line
http://and4.anglo-norman.net:8082/cgi-bin/xpr-texts2?file=foedera1.xml&loc=793

A.D.1294
Esmon, filz du Roy Henri d'Engleterre, a son chier cousin mon sire
Johan de Seint Johan chevaler, tenant en la duchie de Guyenne, le lieu
de nostre treschere seigneur & frere, mon seigneur Edward, par la
grace de DIEU, Roy d'Engleterre, seignur d'Irland, & due de Guyenn' &
a sire Johan de Havering chevaler, seneschall de la dite duchie, & a
tous les autres seneschaus du dist nostre seigneur le Roy & duc, es
parties & es terres de la mesme duchie, saluz.

Sachiez que nous avons receheu, & veu les lettres overtes du dit
nostre seigneur le Roy, en la forme que s'ensuit:

Edward, par la grace de DIEU, Roy d'Engleterre, seignur d'Irland, &
due de Guyenne, a touz ceux qui cestes presentes lettres verront &
orront, saluz.

- - - - - - - - - -

Foedera, 1 (1816): 794
Available online at Anglo-Norman On-line
http://and4.anglo-norman.net:8082/cgi-bin/xpr-texts?file=/and-prod/texts/foede
ra1.xml%26amp;amp;target=794

A.D.1294
Esmon, filz du Roy Henri d'Engleterre, a son chier cousin, monsire
Johan de Saint Johan ehivaler, tenant en la duchee d'Acquitaine le
lieu de nostre treschere seigneur & frere Edward, par la grace de
DIEU, Roy d'Engleterre, seigneur d'Irland, & duc d'Aquitaine, saluz.

Les lettres overtes du dit nostre seigneur & frere nous avons receves,
& entendues en ceste forme:

Edward, par la grace de DIEU, Roi d'Engleterre, seigneur d'Irland, &
due de Guyenne, a touz ceaux qui cestes presentes lettres verront ou
orront, saluz.' [64]


fought in the Caerlaverock campaign of 1300

' Johannes de Sco Johanne Dns de Hannak ', 20th of the barons who sealed the


Barons' Letter to the Pope, February 1301 (in response to the Scots letter
to Boniface VIII in 1298, defying the claimed English superiority) following
the Parliament at Lincoln, 13-20 Jan 1300/1[57]

bef 29 Jun 1256 John married Alice Fitz Reynold[9].[9]


43 Alice Fitz Reynold.[9] Alice died aft 1305.[9]

'John begat John, o[f] Alice daughter of Reynold fitz-Piers.'
[Paul Reed, citing Boxgrove Cartulary][66]


44 Sir John de Moels.
Born bef 17 Jun 1270.[44]
died on 20 May 1310, he was 39.[9]
Occupation: Lord Moels.

knt., of Cadbury and Mapperton, Somerset; King's Carswell, Diptford
and Langford, Devon; Little Berkhampsted, co. Herts.; Over Worton
and Stoke Basset, co. Oxford, & c.[9]

' Johan de Mules ', knight, serving with the army of King Edward I in Scotland


fought at the Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298
: his arms are recorded as

' Argent two bars gules and in chief three
torteaux ' (Falkirk Roll H63[52])

summoned to Parliament from 6 Feb 1298/99 to 16 June 1311, by writs
directed 'Johanni de Moeles', whereby held to have become Lord Moels[9]

' Johes de Moeles Dns de Caudebury ', 26th of the barons who sealed the


Barons' Letter to the Pope, February 1301 (in response to the Scots letter
to Boniface VIII in 1298, defying the claimed English superiority) following
the Parliament at Lincoln, 13-20 Jan 1300/1[57]

identification of his wife Maud as Maud de Grey (see under Maud)[67],[43]

bef 1295 when Sir John was 24, he married Maud de Grey[9].[9]


45 Maud de Grey.[9]

or Matilda.

previously her identity was not known, as indicated in Complete Peerage:
'her parentage has not been ascertained'[ CP Vol IX -Moels, p. 6][9]

identified by John P. Ravilious as daughter of John de Grey, Lord Grey of
Wilton (cf. J. Ravilious, 'Identification of Maud, wife of John de Moels,
Lord Moels (d.1310)' , Society of Medieval Genealogy, 15 January 2002).
The primary evidence are the fines of ca. 1311/12 by John de Grey, Lord
Grey, including provisions for Roger de Moels [identified by John
Ravilious as grandson of John de Grey].[67]

confirmatory information:
(1) Dugdale, Baronage of England, p. 620 :

' This John [de Moels] took to Wife __________ the Daughter to
the Lord Grey of Ruthyn..... '[43]

(2)Kay Allen, citing 'Somerset and Dorset Notes & Queries, vol. 6
(Sept. 1899):289:

'... John Moels married a daughter of Lord Grey de Ruthyn.
Vol. 7 (1901), "...Mr. Rogers says he married a daughter (called
Matilda in So. Rec. Soc., Vol. 6) of Lord Grey de Ruthyn; G.E.C.
[CP] says could not have been a daughter, but might have been a
sister, as his father married twice."
Or they confused Ruthyn and Wilton.'[69]


46 Sir Richard Lovel.
Born aft 21 May 1270.[9]
died on 31 Jan 1350, he was 79.[9]
Occupation: Lord Lovel.

of Castle Cary, co. Somerset

his wardship granted to Sir John de Soules (a Scots knight), 1291[9]

Received manor of Winfrith Eagle, Dorset from Edward I in compensation for
Roxburgh, Jan 1310/11[9]

'He lost eleven chargers in the Scottish war, and appears to have been
captured at the battle of Bannockburn (25 June 1314), for John de Soules
in 1314 had a safe conduct on going to Scotland to secure his release.'
[CP VIII:205, sub _Lovel_ ][9]

purchased the marriage of Roger de Moels for 200 m. from William Inge, with
wardship of 2/3 of his lands, 18 July 1316 [Knights III:161, cited F.R.][44]
~ Roger de Moels d. 1316; Sir Richard Lovel evidently acquired the marriage
of his brother and heir John de Moels (who was married subsequently to
his daughter Muriel Lovel[9])

forfeited after Bannockburn (in Scotland); a Scots jury found (1347) that
'he and his ancestors had possessed the barony of Hawick from time beyond
memory. Old Roxburgh was accordingly restored to Richard and James
Lovel.'[9]

Summoned to Parliament from 20 Nov 1348 to 25 Nov 1350, by writ directed
'Ricardo Lovel', held thereby to have become Lord Lovel[9]

bef 1307 when Sir Richard was 36, he married Muriel de Soulis.[9]


47 Muriel de Soulis.
died bef 25 Feb 1317.[9]

heiress of her father and mother; lands in Scotland forfeit following
Bannockburn (1314), but these were later restored to her descendants
in 1347 by a Scots jury (the barony of Hawick and the lands of Old
Roxburgh).
Cf. CP VIII:206 and notes, sub _Lovel_[9]


[ to be continued - see Part IV and Notes ]


The...@aol.com

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Dec 18, 2005, 7:29:44 PM12/18/05
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Sunday, 18 December, 2005


Hello All,

Part IV of IV (including notes).

Cheers,

John


___________________________________

Muriel (Dinham) Hastings: Ahnentafel (part III of IV)


48 Simon de Montagu.
died on 26 Sep 1316.[9]
Occupation: Lord Montagu.

of Shipton Montague, Somerset

' Symon de Montagu ', knight, serving with the army of King Edward I in

Scotland
fought at the Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298
: his arms are recorded as

' Quarterly first and fourth argent three fusils conjoined
gules second and third azure a griffin segreant or ' (Falkirk Roll H94[52])

' Simon Dns de Monte Acuto ', fifty-sixth of the barons who sealed the


Barons' Letter to the Pope, February 1301 (in response to the Scots letter
to Boniface VIII in 1298, defying the claimed English superiority) following
the Parliament at Lincoln, 13-20 Jan 1300/1[57]

Summoned to Parliament from 29 Dec 1299 to 16 Oct 1315 by writs directed
'Simoni de Monte Acuto,' held thereby to have become Lord Montagu[9]

ca 1270 Simon married Hawise de St. Amand[9].[9]


49 Hawise de St. Amand.[9]

1st wife[9]

re: Amauri de Saint Amand,
' In 1270, for his da. Hawise, he bought the marriage of Simon, s. and
h. of William de Montagu;....' [CP Vol. XI -Saint Amand, p. 297n][9]

NOTE: mother of William de Montagu claimed in some sources (deemed erroneous)
to be Aufrica of Man


50 Piers de Montfort.[39]
Born abt 1240.
died bef 4 Mar 1286, he was 46.[9]

of Beaudesert, co. Warwick

Fought at Evesham for Simon de Montfort, 4 Aug 1265 (taken prisoner; subseq.
restored to part of father's lands).
On pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, 1271/72 and again 1274/75[9]

aft 1264 when Piers was 24, he married Matilda de la Mare.[70],[9]


51 Matilda de la Mare. Born aft 1251.[70]

identified by Douglas Richardson as the daughter of Sir Henry de la Mare
(not his son Matthew) by his wife Joan de Neville, dau. of John de Neville
of Hallingbury, Essex:
' "Pro Matilli filia Henrici de la Mare. - Rex Willelmo de Wenling',
escaetori suo citra Trentam, salutem. Monstravit nobis Matildis filia
Henrici de la Mare quod, cum dudum contulissemus eidem Henrico
custodiam terrarum Willelmi Ortye defuncti qui de nobis tenuit in
capite habendam sibi et assignatis suis cum feodis militum, wardis et
aliis ad dictam custodiam pertinentibus, et idem Henricus dudum ante
mortem suam custiodiam illam assignasset eidem Matildi habendam usque
ad legitimam etatem heredem ejusdem Willelmi ..."

Briefly, the above text states that the king had formerly granted the
lands of William de Lorty deceased to Henry de la Mare, which Henry
during his life had assigned to his daughter, Maud, to have until the
lawful age of the heir of the said William de Lorty. Since no husband
is mentioned for Maud in this record, I assume she was unmarried at
the date this document was recorded. Typically, a husband would be
named if one existed. We know from other records that Maud was
definitely a minor in 1260. If we assume that Maud was still an
unmarried minor in 1265, this might suggest that she was born in or
about 1252. Maud and her husband, Peter de Montfort, had their first
known child in or about 1271, so a marriage date of between 1265 and
1271 for Maud and Peter would surely be acceptable.

Although there may be another grant involved, it appears that Henry de
la Mare obtained the lands of William de Lorty deceased in 1256 on the
payment of a fee of 100 marks a year at the Exchequer. The grant does
not mention William de Lorty's lands, rather the wardship "falling in
land to that yearly value" late of Sabina de Lorty. That Henry de la
Mare, the royal justice, is the person who obtained the Lorty
properties is indicated by the fact that Henry was then stated to be
in the king's "service," and then when he was in Gascony, he "gave
commandment to the queen and R[ichard] earl of Cornwall, guardians of
the realm." Elsewhere, the king states that he is about to send Henry
on a message to the court of Rome [Reference: Calendar of Patent
Rolls, 1247-1258 (1908), pp. 463, 478]. The records show that during
his career, Henry de la Mare the justice made several trips abroad for
the king. '[70]

the manor of Ashtead, co. Surrey was her maritagium or inheritance[71]

identified previously in error as daughter of Matthew de la Mare:
Regarding Sir Peter's marriage, Complete Peerage states,
"He married circa 1260 Maud, daughter and heiress of Matthew,
son of Henry de la Mare, with whom he has Ashtead in Surrey."
[CP IX:127][9] ( see also R. Borthwick[71] and Kay Allen[72])

~ this results from evident confusion with the de la Mare family
of Bradwell, Essex. Chris Phillips advises of the following record,
' A pedigree in De Banco R. 926, m. 427, cited both for the marriage of
Peter and Matilda, and for her being the daughter of Matthew son of Henry. I
believe this equates to the modern reference CP 40/926, which remarkably
enough is a plea roll from Michaelmas 9 Henry VII [1493]. If I've got that
right it means that in this instance CP has, bizarrely, preferred the
evidence of a pedigree recorded more than two centuries after the event, to
two contemporary records placing Maud as the daughter of Henry.'[73]


52 Pierre de Grandison.
Born abt 1190.
died on 31 Aug 1263, he was 73.[9]

lord of Grandison (Suisse)

Pierre married Agnes de Neuchatel.


53 Agnes de Neuchatel.

or, Neuenberg zu Nidau[74]


54 John de Tregoz.
died on 21 Aug 1300.[9]
Occupation: Lord Tregoz.[9]

of Ewyas Harold and Eaton Tregoz, co. Hereford and Lydiard Tregoze and
Allington, Wilts.[9]

evidently received the lordship of Lambourn Hundred, co. Berks with his
wife (held by him in 1274 - Meisel, p. 96[54]

summoned to Parliament by writ from 26 Jan 1296/97, whereby held to be
Lord Tregoz; fought at Falkirk, 1298; d.s.p.m. [9]

2nd husband of Mabel FitzWarin (IPM of Mabel Tregoz, cited by Rosie Bevan)[75]


55 Mabel FitzWarin.
died bef 24 May 1297.[9],[53]

had part of the lordship of Lambourn Hundred, co. Berks as her maritagium :

‘ Fulk Fitz Warin acknowledges that he gave, conceded and
by his charter confirmed to Mabil, his daughter, for homage
and her service, his entire manor of Lambourn with all
appurtenances, to have and hold for herself and the heirs
of her body of Fulk and his heirs freely, quietly, etc.,
saving religious service, as is described in his charter.’
[Meisel, p. 96, citing records of King's Bench for 1249[54]
___________________________

concerning proof of her parentage, Douglas Richardson wrote:
' For evidence that Mabel Fitz Warin was heiress of her mother, Clarice
de Auberville, I find that Mabel and her husband, Sir John Tregoz, were
granted free warren of Iden and I[s]ham, Sussex 11 June 1271. '
[Douglas Richardson, cites Moor, Knights of Edward I 5 (H.S.P. 84) (1932)]

probably m. 1stly, William de Crevequer in 1249;
m. 2ndly John de Tregoz (say 1255-1260 ?)[76]

she held the manor of Weston, co. Beds. in dower at her death
(IPM 24 May 1297, cited by Rosie Bevan)[53]


58 Edward I 'Longshanks' of England.
Born on 17 Jun 1239 in Westminster Palace.[8]
died in Burgh-on-the-Sands, England on 7 Jul 1307, he was 68.[8]
Occupation: King of England, 1272-1307.

'Edward Long-Shanks'
King of England 1272-1307

Participant in the Crusade of 1270 [leader of the English forces[7]]

famous (or infamous) for his attempt to subjugate Scotland (popularly
called "the Hammer of the Scots")

married 1stly Eleanor of Castile,
2ndly Marguerite of France[8]

In Oct 1254 when Edward I 'Longshanks' was 15, he married Eleanor of
Castile, in Las Huelgas, Castile.[8]


59 Eleanor of Castile.
Born in 1241 in Castile.[8]
died in Harby, Lincolnshire on 28 Nov 1290, she was 49.[8]
Buried in Westminster Abbey.

inherited County of Ponthieu on her mother's death, 1279[77]

accompanied her husband in the Crusade of 1270
(her daughter Joan born at Acre, hence her name)[9]


60 Sir William de Braose.
died bef 6 Jan 1290, he was 65.[9]
Born bef 15 Jul 1224.[78]
Occupation: Lord Braose.

of Bramber, Sussex and Gower
summoned to Parliament of April - May 1290 by writ directed 'Willelmo
de Breuse' or 'Brehuse' [spelling from summons to attend King at
Shrewsbury, 28 June 1283], whereby he may be held to have become Lord
Braose or Breuse[9]

received grant of manor of Bramley, Surrey from his brother Richard, 1271

He confirmed the grants made by his father of the rents of cottages in
Tetbury to the priory at Aconbury, founded in memory of Maud de St Valery
by her daughter Margaret[79]

bef 1272 when Sir William was 47, he married Mary de Ros.[9]


61 Mary de Ros. Mary died bef 23 May 1326.[9]

3rd wife[9]


1. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists," Baltimore:
the Genealogical Pub. Company, 1st ed.
2. "The Visitation of Yorkshire," Harleian Soc., William Flower, Esquire,
Norroy King of Arms, Harleian Series, Vol. 16, Mitchell and Hughes,
Printers, London, 1881, pp. 154-156: pedigree of Hastings of Elsing
('Hastynges..' of Fenwick, co. Yorks.), 'The Visitation of Yorkshire
in the Years 1563 and 1564'.
3. "Access to Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
4. "Genealogics," website by Leo van de Pas, http://www.genealogics.com
5. John P. Ravilious, "Re: Dinham/Courtenay Correction," 1 June 2001,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
6. John P. Ravilious, "CP Addition: Muriel Dinham, daughter of John, Lord
Dinham (d. 1428)," 20 February 1404, email the...@aol.com, cites A2A,
Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice, AR/37/24.
7. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and
Medieval Families," Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 2004.
8. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists,"
Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999, (2nd edition,
1999).
9. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint, 1982
(Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great
Britain and the United Kingdom.
10. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public Record Office,
London: Printed for His Majesty's Stationery Office by the Hereford Times
Co., Ltd., 1910, (Henry III, A.D. 1258-1266), p. 435, grant to Richard de
Brus of the custody of the heir of Roger de Tony, (Henry III, A.D.
1267-1272), (Richard II, A.D. 1377-1381), Vol. 1, p. 524, presentation
to the church of Southpole, 3 July 1380, (Richard II, A.D. 1391-1396),
Vol. V, p. 3, election of Sibyl de Montagu as prioress of Amesbury,
(Richard II, A.D. 1396-1399), Vol. VI, p. 34, (Henry IV, A.D. 1399-1401),
Vol. I, pp. 268-9, controversy re: Sibyl de Montagu, prioress of Amesbury,
(Henry VII, A.D. 1485 - 1494), Vol. 1, pp. 36-37, grant to Robert Skerne,
Esq., Vol. 2, p. 52 (commissions of array).
11. John P. Ravilious, "CP Correction: Sir John de Dinham (d. 1428)," 18
October 2004, email the...@aol.com, cites Calendar of Patent Rolls,
Richard II, Vol. 1 (1377-81), p. 524.
12. Dr. Hannes Kleineke, "RE: the Lords Dinham and their relations," 31 March
2004, cites Cornwall Record Office AR2/539/5 ( 'refers to her funeral '),
dated 1393/4.
13. Brad Verity, "Grenvilles of Devon Pt. 2," June 1, 2001,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
14. The Register of Thomas de Brantyngham, Bishop of Exeter, A.D. 1370-1394
(2 vols.), Exeter Episcopal Registers, Vols. 6-7, London: George Bell
& Sons, 1901.
15. "Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516,"
http://www.histparl.ac.uk/cmh/gaz/
16. John P. Ravilious, "CP Addition: Eleanor (Elena) de Montagu, wife of Sir
John de Dinham," 31 March 2004, cites email from Dr. Hannes Kleineke,
Senior Research Fellow of the History of Parliament project, including
re: his transcription of Cornwall RO AR37/56/1, re: John de Dinham and
his wife Elena/Eleanor, incl. his concurrence in the identification of
Eleanor de Montagu as Ellen/Elena, wife of John de Dinham.
17. "Testamenta Vetusta," Nicholas Harris Nicolas, Esq., 2 Vols. London:
Nichols & Son, Parliament Street, 1826, [title con't]: Being Illustrations
From Wills, wills of John, Lord Montagu (d. 1390) and others extracted by
Timothy Powys-Lybbe.
18. John P. Ravilious, "CP Addition: Eleanor (Elena) de Montagu, wife of Sir
John de Dinham," 27 March 2004, cites PRO, Cornwall Record Office:
Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/890,
AR/1/890, gift dated (Monday after Annunciation, 31 Edw III); at
Ilstyngton, Monday, 27th March 1357, further, VCH (Hampshire)
III:134-136, re: manor of Warblington, co. Hants.
19. John P. Ravilious, "The Lady and the Crown: Eleanor (de Montagu) de
Dinham," 3 September 2005, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites evidence
from the tomb of Lady Eleanor Dinham, found in John Stabb, Some
Old Devon Churches, their rood screens, pulpits, fonts (London:
Simpkin, Marshall, Hamilton, Kent & Co., Ltd. [no date], pp. 133-144,
courtesy Dr. R. Peters, http://www.wissensdrang.com/stabb133.htm
as related to details in the will of Sir John de Montagu, dated 20
Mar 1388, in Testamenta Vetusta, p. 124.
20. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215," Baltimore:
Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr & David Faris).
21. W. H. Bliss, ed., "Calendar of Entries in the Papal Registers Relating
to Great Britain and Ireland," Petitions to the Pope, Vol. I (A.D.
1342-1419), London: for the Public Record Office, 1896, (reprinted 1971,
Kraus-Thomson, Liechtenstein).
22. "Inquisitions and Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids," London: H. M.
Stationary Office, 1906, (reprinted 1973, Kraus-Thomson, Liechtenstein),
Vol. IV: Northampton - Somerset.
23. Harvard Law School Library, "English Deeds Collection," URL

http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/collections/special/manuscripts/deeds/index.php
Deed 174, Hollis No. AOA6353 - deed of Sir Thomas de Courtenay to Roger
Torel.
24. John P. Ravilious, "CP Correction: John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83) and
his 2nd wife Alice," 24 February 2004, cites PRO, Cornwall Record Office:
Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/1/1 - AR/1/527], AR/1/415,
Declaration of tenure, and demand for homage and fealty.
25. John P. Ravilious, "CP 'Correction': Sir John de Dinham and Muriel de
Courtenay," 24 February 2004, cites PRO, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell
of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/890, AR/1/890, gift
dated (Monday after Annunciation, 31 Edw III); at Ilstyngton, Monday,
27th March 1357.
26. R. Pearse Chope, "The Early History of the Manor of Hartland", Report
and Transactions of the Devonshire Association for the Advancement of
Science, Literature, and Art, Vol. XXXIV [Vol. IV, 2nd series], Plymouth:
W. Brendon and Son, 1902, pp. 418-449.
27. "The National Archives," URL
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
28. Jonathan Sumption, "The Hundred Years War," Philadelphia: University of
Pennsylvania Press, 1999, Vol. II: Trial by Fire.
29. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet," Jan 20, 2003, email
royala...@msn.com.
30. Douglas Richardson, "Another C.P. Addition: Margaret de Monthermer,
wife of John de Montagu," 15 June 2005, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com,
cites F.F. Kirby, ed., Wykeham's Register, 2 (1899): 555.
31. William Page, F.S.A., ed., "Victoria County History of Hampshire and the
Isle of Wight," London: Archibald Constable and Company, Ltd., 1908,
Vol. III, pp. 134-136 (Warblington).
32. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public Record Office,
London: for the Public Record Office, 1895, (reprinted 1971,
Kraus-Thomson,
Liechtenstein).
33. Douglas Richardson, "C.P. Addition: Parentage of Josce de Dynham,"
18 November 2004, douglasr...@royalancestry.net, cites List of


Ancient Correspondence, Lists and Indexes, No. XV, reprinted 1968,

pg. 552; cf. Index to Ancient Correspondence, of the Chancery and the


Exchequer, 1 (Lists and Indexes, Supplementary Series, No. XV)
(reprinted 1969), pp. 308, 351].

34. Thomas Rymer, ed., "Foedera, Conventiones, Literae, et Cujuscunque
Generis Acta Publica," Editio Secunda: London: J. Tonson, 1727,
additions and corrections by Adam Clarke and Frederick Holbrooke,
Record Commissioners: London 1816-1869., URL
http://www.anglo-norman.net/xslt/texts/foedera2.xml
courtesy The Ango-Norman On-Line Hub.
35. Dr. Hannes Kleineke, "Re: Dinham descent & dilemmas," 19 April 2004,
cites Cornwall Record Office deeds bearing seal of Lady Margaret Dinham,
incl. arms of Botreaux.
36. John P. Ravilious, "CP Correction: Margaret, wife of Sir John de Dinham
(d. 1332)," 1 May 2004, cite Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne
and Trerice [AR/1/1 - AR/1/527] , AR/1/397:, Agreement for adjustment of
dower between Lady Margaret 'de Dyneham' and her son John, 29 Mar 1343
[Saturday after Annunciation, 23 Edw III ], documentation provided by
Dr. Hannes Kleineke.
37. Dr. Hannes Kleineke, "RE: Dinham - Brightleigh, Devon; and the Botreaux
connection," 1 May 2004, cites Cornwall Record Office deeds bearing seal
of Lady Margaret Dinham, incl. arms of Botreaux, including CRO AR1/397
(Arundell of Lanherne collection), documented in his Ph.D. thesis, "The
Dinham Family in the Later Middle Ages' (London Univ. Ph.D., 1998),
p. 27, n. 99.
38. Robert W. Barnes, "British Roots of Maryland Families," Baltimore:
Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1999.
39. "Ancestors of Edmund de Mortimer," David Utzinger U...@aol.com,
4 August 2000.
40. K. B. McFarlane, "The Nobility of Later Medieval England," Oxford Univ.
Press, 1973 (reprinted 1980), Clinton, 159-160;.
41. Douglas Richardson, "Identity of Margaret, wife of Henry le Tyeys &
Thomas de Monthermer," 12 December 2004,
douglasr...@royalancestry.net, cites seal in Roger Ellis,
Catalogue of Personal Seals in the Public Record Office, vol. 2 (1981),
p. 108 : "P2161 Margaret widow of Henry le Tyas (Tyays) 1323.
42. Douglas Richardson, "Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and
Medieval Families," Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 2005.
43. William Dugdale, Norroy King of Arms, "The Baronage of England," Tho.
Newcomb [reprint Georg Verlag, New York], London, 1675 [reprint New
York, 1977].
44. Rev. Charles Moor, D.D., F.S.A., "Knights of Edward I," Pubs. of the
Harleian Society, 1929-1930, 3 Vols. (Vols. 80-83 in series).
45. "Inquisitions Post Mortem," Vol. Edward I, pp. 22-25 for 'Joyce de
Dynham', p. 25 for 'John de Bella Acqua', scanned images provided by
Rosie Bevan, email: rbe...@paradise.net.nz.
46. "Devon Manors: Tiverton Hundred,"
http://www.mortimer.co.uk/manors/hemyock.htm
47. Col. F. B. Prideaux, "Notes and News ('with regard to the pedigree of
Fishacre, Genealogists' Magazine, Vol. 6, p. 626')," The Genealogists'
Magazine, Vol. 7, No. 10, June, 1937, pp. 536-7, provides citation from
an Assize of Mort' Ancestor (late Edw. III) to recover possession of
the manor of Morelegh.
48. John P. Ravilious, "Correction to CP: Dinham, Lord Dinham," May 16, 2002,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
49. "Devonshire Manors in the Domesday Book," www.hemyockcastle.co.uk/
50. Mark Harry, "Re: CP Addition: Ancestry of the Lords Botreaux," 4 May 2004,
cites Maclean (re: Trigg Manor, pp. 631 et seq.), Dugdale and other
sources, email duns...@yahoo.com.
51. Douglas Richardson, "Magna Carta ancestry," 14 February 2005, email
royala...@msn.com.
52. Brian Timms, "The Falkirk Roll," an occasional roll of arms of those
having fought at the Battle of Falkirk, July 1298,
http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/falkirkH.html
This is an occasional roll, listing those present at the battle of
Falkirk, which was fought on 22 July 1298,, when the forces of Edward
I defeated a Scottish army under William Wallace., It is accepted that
the roll was composed shortly afterwards. The original blazon is in the
Anglo-Norman dialect, from a copy of the roll made by Robert Glover,
c1585., The source of this blazon is Gerard J Brault, Rolls of Arms of
Edward I, Society of Antiquaries, London, 1996.
53. Rosie Bevan, "Re: Clarice, wife of Sir Adam de Everingham (Clarice la
Warre ?)," Feb 19, 2003, email, the...@aol.com (paper copy: library
of John Ravilious, cites MABEL, LATE THE WIFE OF JOHN TREGOZ - Writ 24
May, 25 Edw I, [BEDFORD] Inq Wednesday after St Barnabas, 25 Edw I, also
CIPM v.7 no.676, the IPM of William de Grandison (1335).
54. Janet Meisel, "Barons of the Welsh Frontier: The Corbet, Pantulf and
Fitz Warin Families, 1066-1272," Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press.
55. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent,
1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
56. Douglas Richardson, "Hastings-Morley," June 28, 2001,
royala...@email.msn.com (direct email).
57. Brian Timms, "The Barons' Letter in reply to the Pope, February 1301,"
http://www.briantimms.com/baronsletter/background.htm
Seven earls and sixty five barons sealed the letter, which is now in
the Public Record Office.
58. G. W. S. Barrow, "Robert Bruce and the Community of the Realm of
Scotland,"
Edinburgh University Press, 1976 (2nd ed.).
59. "Edward I," Michael Prestwich, New Haven: Yale University Press, 1997
[in England, originally 1988 -Methuen], Yale English Monarchs series.
60. "Calendar of the Charter Rolls," preserved in the Public Record Office,
London, 1898, Vol. II (Henry III - Edward I, 1257-1300), pp. 190-191,
letters patent of William de Fiennes for the marriage of his sister
Maud to Humphrey de Bohun, heir of the earl of Hereford, 1912, vol. 4
(1-14 Edward III, 1327 – 1341, p. 475, grants confirmed by the king 12
July 1340, along with a royal charter dated 13 December 4 Edward III,
at the request of Walter, abbot of Garendon. the list of grants runs
through pp. 472-481, Citations provided by Chris Phillips
(c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk).
61. Brian Timms, "St George's Roll," College of Arms, London, MS Vincent
164 ff 1-21b., http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/, Dated c1285. Painted,
containing 677 shields. Source: Gerard J Brault, Rolls of Arms of
Edward I, Boydell & Brewer, 1997.
62. John P. Ravilious, "CP Correction: death of Isabel (de Vere)
(de Courtenay) de Dinham," 19 April 2004, cite Cornwall Record Office:
Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice AR/17-AR/50, AR/37/6, resolution of
dispute between Sir Hugh de Courtenay (son of Isabel) and Sir Oliver de
Dinham (widower of Isabel), dated Morrow of Epiphany, 19 Edw [I] (7 Jan
1290/1).
63. Ronny Bodine, "CHAMPERNOUN OF ILFRACOMBE, DEVONSHIRE," 1 Feb, 1999,
paper copy: library of John P. Ravilious.
64. Douglas Richardson, "Edmund, Earl of Lancaster's cousin, John de St.
John," Aug 2, 2003, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites Foedera, 1 (1816):
793 [online at

http://and4.anglo-norman.net:8082/cgi-bin/xpr-texts2?file=foedera1.xml&loc=793
and Foedera, 1 (1816): 794, in which Edmund, Earl of Lancaster addresses
Sir John de St. John as, 'son chier cousin mon sire Johan de Seint Johan
chevaler' in 1294.
65. John P. Ravilious, "Edmund, Earl of Lancaster's cousin, John de St. John,"
Aug 2, 2003, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, notes relationship that would
exist (as 4th cousins) between Sir John and, Edmund of Lancaster if
Godeheut was a daughter of Roger de Tosny, and Constance de Beaumont.
66. Paul C. Reed, FASG, "Re: Edmund, Earl of Lancaster's cousin, John de St.
John," Aug 12, 2003, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites Boxgrove
Cartulary, p. 181 (an English version of the "History of the Foundation,
and Founders' Genealogy" ).
67. John P. Ravilious, "Identification of Maud, wife of John de Moels, Lord
Moels (d.1310)," Jan 15, 2002, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, [followup
identification of William Inge by Douglas Richardson, 4 Feb 2002].
68. "Ahnentafel for Pat Patterson: Generation 32," biographical information
re: John de Kelly, http://www.patpnyc.com/ahn-23.shtml, cites Knights of
Edward I.
69. Kay Allen, AG, "Re: Identification of Maud, wife of John de Moels," Feb
4, 2002, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
70. Douglas Richardson, "Re: C.P. Addition: Joan, mother of Maud de la Mare,
wife of Peter de Montfort," 8 November 2004,
douglasr...@royalancestry.net, cites evidence found for the
ancestry of Maud de la Mare, wife of Piers de Montfort of Beaudesert,
including Calendar of Close Rolls, 1264-1265 (1937), pg. 55, evidence
from A2A, Release by Hawyse de Nevile, posted 1 November 2004.
71. Richard Borthwick, "de la Mare," Feb 26, 1999,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
72. Kay Allen, AG, "Fwd: Dakeny/De Akeny," April 21, 2002,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, citing VCH Surrey 3:248, 252.
73. Mark Harry, "Re: C.P. Addition: Joan, mother of Maud de la Mare,
wife of Peter de Montfort," 23 November 2004, cites Wrothesley,
Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls and other sources.
74. Paul Theroff, "The Counts of Neuenberg," Paul Theroff's Dynastic
Genealogy Files, worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/.
75. Rosie Bevan, "Re: de Weyland, an Irish Connection (?) : Chipping Sodbury,
co. Glocs.," June 2, 2002, rbe...@paradise.net.nz.
76. John P. Ravilious, "CP Correction: Fulk 'III' FitzWarin and His
Descendants," May 3, 2003, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites Close
Rolls of the Reign of Henry III (1227-1272), Vol. II p. 210, as cited
in the Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs:, and the records of King’s Bench
from 1249, as cited by Janet Meisel, Barons of the Welsh Frontier: The
Corbet, Pantulf and Fitz Warin Families, 1066-1272, p. 96.
77. John Carmi Parsons, "Alais of France," Feb 19, 1999,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
78. Paul C. Reed, FASG, "Llywelyn's Daughter Margaret and the de Braose
Family," Oct 3, 1999, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites CPR (Calendar
of Patent Rolls) 1216-25, p. 134 re: John de Braose being 'of age' Jan.
1218;, _Brut y Tywysogyon or The Chronicle of the Princes ..._
(Roll Series, v.17: ed. Rev. John Williams ab Ithel [London, 1860],
pp. 304-5) concerning John's marriage to Margaret ferch Llywelyn, and
[Curia Regis Rolls, 490-1; CCR 1231-4, Hen. III, 2:86 concerning his
death, additional contributions and discussion with Douglas Richardson,
Stewart Baldwin, Todd A. Farmerie, and others.
79. "The Braose Web," by Doug Thompson
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm

John P. Ravilious

unread,
Dec 19, 2005, 2:55:54 PM12/19/05
to
[NOTE: original submission in etherea incognita.....]

Sunday, 18 December, 2005


Hello All,

This is the detailed AT for Muriel Dinham, promised in my last
post in this thread. I hope this is found to be useful.

Cheers,

John

___________________________________

Muriel (Dinham) Hastings: Ahnentafel (part I - A of IV)


2 John Dinham.[2]
Born aft 3 Jul 1359 in Devon.[10],[11],[9]
died on 25 Dec 1428, he was 69.[9]
Buried in Kingskerswell church, Devon.[12]

knight, of Hartland, Devon, Buckland Denham, Somerset and Cardinham,
Cornwall
5th Lord Dinham
held heir to uncle Hugh Courtenay, per Inq.p.m., 12 Aug 1369[9]

a minor on 3 July 1380:
' Presentation of Thomas de Eyton, parson of the church of Great
Shelford, in the diocese of Ely, to the church of Southpole, in
the diocese of Exeter, in the king's gift by reason of the
minority of John de Dynham, son and heir of Muriel, daughter
and one of the heirs of Thomas de Courteneye, tenant in chief,
on an exchange of benefices with William de Donnebrugge. '
[Calendar of Patent Rolls, Richard II, Vol. 1 (1377-81), p.
524.[11],[10]]

' Dominum Johannem Dynham, juniorem, Militem, et Elenam ejus uxorem ',
named in a mandate of Bishop Thomas Brantyngham of Exeter dated Feb
1379/80 [Brantyngham I:418[14]]

licence dated 14 July 1382 for his wife, Lady Eleanor to celebrate the
divine
service in a chapel or oratory at Kitton [Brantyngham I:472, dated
1382[14]]

'Dominus Johannes de Dynham, Miles, et Elianora uxor sua ', had
licence
from Bishop Brantyngham to celebrate divine services in a chapel in
their
manor of Kingskerswell [ 'infra Manerium suum de Carswelle Regis '],
dated
3 Jan 1383/4 [Brantyngham I:504[14]]

entered into agreement with Edward Hastings for marriage to
his daughter Muriel Dinham: Pre-nuptial settlement dated 7 Hen IV
[20 Feb 1405/06; A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne


and Trerice, AR/37/24 dated 20 Feb 1406[3],

buried Kingskerswell, Devon (together with his first and second
wives)[12]

he m. 1stly Eleanor (or Elena[9] ) de Montagu[16],[4]
2nd Maud Mautravers[9],
3rdly Philippa Lovel[9]

cf. CP IV:374-7[9]
Richardson pp. 274-5[7]

bef 3 Feb 1379 when John was 19, he married Eleanor de Montagu[9].[9]


3 Eleanor de Montagu.[9]
died ca 1394.[12],[17],[16]
Buried in Kingskerswell church, Devon.[12]

1st wife[9]

' my daughter Alianore ', will of her father Sir John de Montagu, dated
20 March, 1388 [Testa. Vetusta, p. 124[17]]

'Eleanor ', daughter of John de Montagu [CP IX:88, note (f)[9]]

' Ellen|Alianore de Montagu ', wife of Sir John de
Dinham [Genealogics # I00387511[4]]

CP IV:375-6 (and notes (g) on p. 375, (a) on p. 376), re: her husband
John :
" He m., 1stly, before 3 Feb. 1379/80 [g], Ellen. She was
living 22 Sep. 1387 [a].
"(g) "Johannes Dynham junior miles et Elena uxor ejus" occur
on and between these dates. (Exeter Reg., Brantyngham,
pp. 418, 472, 481, 623, 646).
"(a) See note "g" on preceding page. "[9]

cf. Brantyngham I:418, dated Feb 1379/80[14]]
Brantyngham I:481, dated 1382[14]]

she evidently delivered a child in 1391/2:
the Account Roll of John Whitebal , beadle of Hartland, Devon dated
13-14 Ric II includes expenses for 'a horse for an 'obstetrix' for
the
lady' [A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/2/1 - AR/2/731], AR/2/539/4[3] ]

she d. 1393/4 as noted by Dr. Hannes Kleineke[12]:
the Account Roll of Richard Sampson, beadle of Hartland, Devon dated
17-18 Ric II includes expenses for ' purchase of victuals for the
lady's burial ', and ' costs of various transports for the lady's
burial ' [A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and
Trerice
[AR/2/1 - AR/2/731], AR/2/539/5[3] ]
____________________________________

the parentage of Ellen/Elena, wife of John de Dinham, was identified by
John P. Ravilious [18]

Additional evidence of her parentage was noted on the tomb of Lady
Eleanor
Dinham in Kingskerswell, Devon [J. Ravilious, The Lady and The Crown,
3 Sept 2005[19]]

cf. CP IV:375-6, sub Dinham[9]
CP IX:88, note (f), sub Montagu[9]


4 John de Dinham.
died in murdered (robbery) on 7 Jan 1382, he was 62.[20],[9]
Born on 3 May 1319.[9],[3]

knight, of Hartland, Devon, Buckland Denham, Somerset and Cardinham,
Cornwall
4th Lord Dinham

born 3 May 1319; had recognition of his right to seisin by his mother
when
of age, 3 May 1340 [ A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne
and
Trerice [AR/17 - AR/50] , AR/37/11[3] ]

had livery of his father's lands followng the King taking his homage,
12 May 1340

he was possibly knighted at that time, but definitely before 29 March
1343.
He had livery of the manor of Bodardel, Cornwall under Agreement for
adjustment of dower with his mother Lady Margaret, 29 Mar 1343
[Saturday
after Annunciation, 23 Edw III ] - A2A, Cornwall Record
Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/1/1 - AR/1/527] ,
AR/1/397[3]

' Sir John de Dynham ', witness to quitclaim of his cousin Oliver de
Dynham
of lands of Whyteleigh in Hartland manor, 7 Feb. 1346 [ A2A, Cornwall


Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/1/528 -
AR/1/1121],

AR/1/604[3]]

record of a petition by his mother to the Pope, Jul 1346:
' Margaret, late the wife of John de Dynham, knight. For plenary
remission at the hour of death to herself and her legitimate sons,
John de Dynham, knight, and Oliver de Dynham. Granted.
[ Avignon, Kal. Aug. ] ' [Papal Petition I:114[21], cites f. 117]

' John Dy[n]ham ', witness to grant by his (future) father-in-law '
Thomas
de Cortenay the Elder, knight ' to Roger Torel, dated Carswill Regis
[Kingskerswell], 7 June 1355 [ Harvard English Deeds Coll. , Deed
174 - HOLLIS number: - AOA6353[23] ]

had livery of the manors of Buckland Denham and Harpford which his
mother
had held in dower, 22 Apr 1362[9]

he m. Muriel de Courtenay

cf. CP IV:373-4[9]
_______________________________

previously believed to have married 2ndly Alice[24], but this is
evidently in error.

bef 27 Mar 1357 when John was 37, he married Muriel de
Courtenay.[3],[25]


5 Muriel de Courtenay.
died bef 12 Aug 1369, she was 26.[20]
Born bef 27 Mar 1343.[4]
Buried in Hartland Abbey, Devon.[9],[26]

coheiress (in her issue) of her brother Hugh de Courtenay[9]

' The date of the marriage of Sir John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83)
and
Muriel de Courtenay is unknown, and was previously defined only by the
approximation of the birth of their son John, evidently born before 12
August 1359 as he was 'aged 10 and more' at the time of the IPM of his
uncle Hugh de Courtenay (12 Aug 1369) [1 - citation from CP provided
by
Chris Phillips].
' The record of a gift of certain manors in Devon and Cornwall has
been
found on the PRO site, which evidences that John de Dinham and Muriel
de
Courtenay were married no later than 27 March 1357.'[25]

Gift, dated Monday after Annunciation, 31 Edw III (27 March 1357),
at Ilstyngton; by
" William de Wynkaulton, chaplain, Nicholas de la Pomeray, and
Thomas de Stafforde = (1)-(3) [to]
Sir John de Dyneham, knight, and Muriel his wife = (4)-(5)

(1)-(3) to (4)-(5), their manors of Ilstyngton, Matforde, Southdon,
Bodardel and Gorlyn, with all appurtenances; for (4)-(5) and the heirs
and assigns of (4) to hold of the chief lords of the fee, by services
due.
Warranty.
[Witnesses:] Richard de Merton, Theobald de Greyneuile, Thomas de
Raleghe,
John de Ferariis, knights, John Dabernoun, Thomas de Crauwelthorne,
John
Fraunceys, Matthew Beaumond, William Holebern. " - A2A, Cornwall
Record


Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121],

AR/1/890[3]

cf. CP IV:374[9]


6 John de Montagu.
died bef 5 Mar 1389.[9],[7]
Buried in Salisbury cathedral.[9]
Occupation: Lord Montagu.

knt., of Wark upon Tweed, Northumberland
younger son

fought at Crecy (26 Aug 1346) and the siege of Calais, 1347
fought at Poitiers, 19 Sept 1356[1] [probably in the right wing, under
command of his brother the Earl of Salisbury; Sumption, p. 235[28]]

summoned to Parliament from 15 Dec 1357 to 6 Dec 1389 by writs directed

'Johanni de Monte Acuto', whereby held to have become Lord Montagu
[CP IX:87[9]]

grant from John de Grandisson to his nephew to Sir John de Montagu,
dated 1365/6:
E 329/207
John de Grandissono, Bishop of Exeter, brother and heir of Peter de
Gradissono (sic) to John de Monte Acuto his nephew: Grant of land in
Ewyas Harold, Monnington, Stradel, Folesyate, Upton Skydemor, Norton,
Fyfield (Fifhide), Teffont (Teffonte Ewias), Rockley, Poyntington, and
Eschelleworth: Heref. 40 Edw.III [27]

will dated 20 March 1388/9 [17]

cf. CP IX:86-88[9]

bef 31 Dec 1343 John married Margaret de Monthermer.[29]


7 Margaret de Monthermer.
Born on 14 Oct 1329 in Stokenham, Devon.[1],[7]
died on 24 Mar 1394, she was 64.[9],[7]
Buried in Warblington, co. Hants. (later reinterred at Selwood
priory, aft 15 Feb 1403/4).[30]
Occupation: Baroness Monthermer.

heiress of her father[29]

her marriage and custody of her lands were granted to William
de Montagu, Earl of Salisbury, 2 July 1340 (he married her
to his younger son John de Montagu - CP IX:144[9])

she inherited the manor of Warblington, co. Hants. (dower of her
mother)

grant by ' Margaret Mountagu, lady of Stokeynhame, widow' dated at
Warblington, 3 April, 13 Richard II (1390) [27]

cf. VCH (Hampshire) III:134-136[31]

' Margaret de Monte Acuto, lady of Stokenham, now deceased ', granted a
messuage and two ferlings of land in Colrigge, part of Stokenham, to
John Irlond and his wife Margery - Pardon re: entry without licence
upon
same to Margery, late wife of John Irlond, dated at Westminster, 26
Sept 1396 [CPR Ric II VI:34[10]]

cf. CP IX:86-88 (sub Montagu)[9]


[ to be continued - see Part I -B ]

John P. Ravilious

unread,
Dec 19, 2005, 2:59:34 PM12/19/05
to

Monday, 19 December, 2005


Hello All,

This is Part I -B of the detailed AT for Muriel Dinham (the
original ' Part I ' was too large, changing Google to Gaggle....).

Cheers,

John

___________________________________

Muriel (Dinham) Hastings: Ahnentafel (part I - B of IV)


8 Sir John de Dinham.
Born on 14 Sep 1295.[9]
died bef 15 Apr 1332, he was 36.[9]

knt., of Hartland, Devon, Buckland Denham, Somerset and Cardinham,
Cornwall[9]
3rd Lord Dinham

succeeded his father as a minor, and ward of the King:


Assignment [ " to Thomas, bishop of Exeter, Hugh, abbot of Hayles,
William
de Bereford and Walter de Aylesbury, executors of the will of Edmund,
earl
of Cornwall, the king's kinsman, in part payment of the king's
indebtedness
to the earl of 9,480 1/2 marks 10 1/4d.," ] of custody of his lands
during
the minority of his heir, made at Peebles [Scot.] 2 Aug. 1301:
' from 8 September next, and during the minority of the heirs, of two
parts
of the lands late of Joyce de Dynham, tenant in chief, together with
the
marriage of the heirs, worth 2,000 marks; saving to the king knights'
fees,
&c., as above.
By K[ing]., on the information of W., bishop of Coventry and
Lichfield.
Mandate in pursuance to Walter de Gloucestre, escheator beyond Trent.
Mandate to Margery, late the wife of the said Joyce, to deliver the
body
of the heir of the said Joyce, which is said to be in her custody, to
the
said executors to be married. ' [CPR 1292-1301, p. 603[32]]

assessment of a feudal aid, for his manor of Buckland Denham in the


hundred
of Kynemerdeston, Somerset in 1303:

' Johannes de Denham, heres Jocelini de Denham, tenet terciam partem
un. f.
in Boclaund et est in custodia domini regis ' [Feudal Aids IV:310[22]]

came of age, September 1316:


'A few years after the death of Sir Oliver de Dynham, his son, Josce's
son and heir, John de Dynham, came of age. This took place in 1316.
Shortly before John obtained livery of his father's lands, Hugh de
Courtenay (grandson of Isabel de Vere) wrote a letter to William de
Airmyn dated c. September 1316, in which he requested assistance for
his kinsman, John de Dynham, now of age, in obtaining seisin of his

lands [Reference: List of Ancient Correspondence, Lists and Indexes,


No. XV, reprinted 1968, pg. 552; cf. Index to Ancient Correspondence

of the Chancery and the Exchequer, 1 (Lists and Indexes, Supplementary

Series, No. XV) (reprinted 1969), pp. 308, 351]. The King
subsequently took John de Dynham's homage, and he had livery of his
father's lands, 18 October 1316.'[33]

~ NOTE: this evidence supports his relationship to the Courtenay family
as
shown (based on common descent from his paternal grandmother, Isabel
de Vere)

' Jn. de Dynham ' , entered into agreement with Sir Otto de Bodrugan as
to the advowson of the church of La Roche, recognized as below to John
de Dinham:
Agreement dated at Lostwythiel, 6 November 1318 :
1. Jn. de Dynham
2. Sir Otto de Bodrugan, Kt.
(Rec. on recent vacancy of church of La Roche in diocese of Exeter by
death
of Clement de la roche there was a controversy on the right of
patronage
between him and Sir Otto de Bodrugan, Knight. Latter brought writ of
quare
impedit against him in the King's court)
(2) recognised (1)'s right to advowson in court.
(1) had to pay costs awarded.
Alternate sealing clause. ' - A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Edgcumbe
of
Cotehele and Mount Edgcumbe [ME/1540 - ME/3660], ME/2905[3]

' Johan de Dynham ', summoned for military service 20 February 1324/5 -


to
appear at Portsmouth 'mounted and armed' - in France, by letters under
privy seal of King Edward II [ Foedera, pp. 591-2[34]]

IPM of John de Dynham, held at Exeter, 20 June 1332[26]

cf. CP IV:372-3[9]
Chope pp. 432-3[26]

ca 1310 when Sir John was 14, he married Margaret de Botreaux.[9]


9 Margaret de Botreaux. Margaret died bef 16 Jan 1361.[9]

Genealogics #I00429089[4]

' Margaret Botreaux ' as identified by Dr. Hannes Kleineke.[35]

record of a petition to the Pope, Jul 1346:


' Margaret, late the wife of John de Dynham, knight. For plenary
remission at the hour of death to herself and her legitimate sons,
John de Dynham, knight, and Oliver de Dynham. Granted.

[ Avignon, Kal. Aug. ] ' [Papal Petitions I:114[21], cites f. 117]

assessment of a feudal aid, for his manor of Buckland Denham in the
hundred
of Kynemersdon, Somerset in 1346 (which she held in dower):
' De Margareta, que fuit uxor Johannis de Denham, pro iij. parte un. f.
in
Bouclond quam Johannes de Denham et heres Johanne de Denham quondam
tenuerunt ibidem.......xiij. s. iiij. d. ' [Feudal Aids IV:355[22]]

cf. CP IV:373-4[9]

J. P. Ravilious '[36]
H. Kleineke [35],[37]


10 Sir Thomas de Courtenay.
died in 1356.

knight, of Woodhuish and Dunterton, Devon and Wootton Courtenay and
Cricket Malherbe, Somerset[38]

younger son, Thomas was named as heir to brother Robert in provisions
for remainder in Woodhuish and other lands [ his father Hugh,


deforciant
in a fine of 8 Edw II [Trinity term, 1315 ]:

" with remainder, after their deaths, to Robert son of (3)
and his heirs of body; in default of such heirs, remainder to
Thomas, Robert's brother, and his heirs."

- A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice

[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/643[3]

record of a petition to the Pope, Jul 1346:
' Thomas de Courtenay, knight, legitimate brother of the earl of
Devon. For plenary remission at the hour of death to himself and
Muriel his wife. Granted. Avignon, Kal. Aug. ' [Papal
Petitions


I:114[21], cites f. 117]

Grant dated 7 June 1355:29 Edward III :
' Grant by Thomas de Cortenay the Elder, knight, to Roger Torel of all
his
messuages, etc., which he had in Offewill and Everforde in the hundred
of
Colyton (Devon), with the advowson of Offewill and of all his
messuages,
etc., which he had in West Raddon and Allirford in the hundred of
Lyfton
(Devon). Done at Carswill Regis on the Sunday before St. Barbabas, 29
Edward III.
WITNESSES: John Dy[n]ham, William Auarle, William Dounfravyle, John de
Kelly, Robert de Courtenay, Robert Morgan, Richard Newy, John Kelly of
Southwyck, and others. With 1 seal (2.4 cm) of red wax (damaged);
bearing
an armorial sheild and the legend: SI ... HOME DE COURT ... ' [
Harvard
English Deeds Coll. , Deed 174 - 29 Edward III. 1 item : paper ; 9 x
26 cm. HOLLIS number: - AOA6353[23] ]

bef 27 Aug 1337 Sir Thomas married Muriel de Moels.[29]


11 Muriel de Moels. Born ca 1322.[9]

eldest daughter and coheiress;
received her purparty of her father's lands (including Kingskerswell,
Devon) following Thomas de Courtenay having done fealty, 6 Oct 1337[9]

she was living in 1346 [record of a petition by her husband to the
Pope,
granted 1 Aug 1346 - Papal Petitions I:114 [21], cites f. 117]


12 William de Montagu.
Born in 1301 in Salisbury.[39]
died on 30 Jan 1343, he was 42.[9]
Occupation: Earl of Salisbury.

of Shipton Montague, Somerset
3rd Lord Montagu
adherent of young Edward III in palace revolution of 1330
summoned to Parliament from 18 Feb 1330/31.[9]

created Earl of Salisbury 16 March 1336/7
Marshal of England[40]

cf. CP IX:82-3, note (f)[9]

abt 1327 when William was 26, he married Katherine de Grandison.[39]


13 Katherine de Grandison.
Born abt 1304.[39]
died on 23 Apr 1349, she was 45.[9]

youngest daughter (CP:XI:387[9]]


14 Thomas de Monthermer.
Born on 4 Oct 1301.[9],[8]
died in k. at Battle of Sluys on 24 Jun 1340, he was 38.[9],[1]
Occupation: Lord Monthermer.

2nd Lord Monthermer (not summ. to Parliament)[9]

' On 4 July 1325 he and his brother Edward made an
agreement as to certain manors in which both had an
interest; Thomas was to have Stokenham and Edward
Warblington, &c., and on 11 July Thomas granted
Edward a rent of £ 20 from Stokenham. ' [CP IX:143,
and note (c), citing Cal. Close Rolls, 1323-27, p. 492[9] ]
heir of his brother Edward

cf. CP IX:143[9],


VCH (Hampshire) III:134-136[31]

aft Mar 1322 when Thomas was 20, he married Margaret de Braose.


15 Margaret de Braose.
died bef 27 May 1349.[9]

' Margaret widow of Thomas Monthermer held Warblington in dower till
her
death in May, 1349, when it was inherited by her daughter
Margaret wife of Sir John Montagu, kt.,..'[VCH (Hampshire)
III:134-136[31]]

her identification as Margaret, daughter of Piers de Braose by Douglas
Richardson:
' A while back, I discussed evidence regarding the possible identity of
Margaret, wife successively of Henry le Tyeys, Knt. (died 1322), 2nd
Lord Tyeys, and Thomas de Monthermer, Knt. (died 1340), 2nd Lord
Monthermer. Margaret's identity is of special interest to medieval
historians and genealogists, as her 2nd husband, Sir Thomas de
Monthermer, was a grandson of King Edward I of England. By Margaret
and Thomas' daughter, Margaret de Monthermer, wife of John Montagu,
Knt., the Monthermer family is ancestral to many living descendants
today.
In my earlier post (see copy below), I noted that both Margaret and
her
first husband, Sir Henry le Tyeys, had various associations with the
family of Sir Peter de Brewes (died 1312), of Tetbury, Gloucestershire,
and his wife, Agnes de Clifford. Briefly, I found that sometime prior
to 1322, Henry le Tyeys conveyed a messuage to Peter de Brewes' widow,
Agnes de Clifford. Also, I found Henry le Tyeys' widow, Margaret,
associated with Agnes (de Clifford) de Brewes in a record shortly
before Margaret's marriage to Thomas de Monthermer. I queried if
Margaret le Tyeys might not have been a daughter of Peter de Brewes and
his wife, Agnes de Clifford. Such an arrangement is certainly possible
chronologically, as Peter de Brewes and his wife, Agnes, are known to
have married in 1300. Henry and Margaret le Tyeys were evidently
married in or about 1316, at which date, Margaret's age still required
that she needed a guardian. This implies Margaret was born in or after
1300. Also, it is known that Henry le Tyeys had the wardship and
marriage of Peter de Brewes' heirs, and thus he would have been in a
position to easily have married Peter de Brewes' daughter, if one was
available.
In the intervening time since my original post, I've determined
that
the personal seal of Margaret le Tyeys has survived, it being attached
to a document dated 1323 during the period of her first widowhood. The
seal is described in detail by Roger Ellis in his interesting book,


Catalogue of Personal Seals in the Public Record Office, vol. 2 (1981),

pg. 108:

"P2161 Margaret widow of Henry le Tyas (Tyays) 1323

In a cusped quatrefoil, hung from a triple bush, two shields of arms:
(L) a chevron [TYEYS], the field hatched, and (R) crusilly (?) a lion
rampant, queue fourchy.

SIGIL[LUM] MARGA/RET ... YAYS (Lom)

Round, c. 23, red, tongue. Good impression but edge much damaged.
E2113/25.

We see above that Margaret le Tyeys' arms on her personal seal are
crusilly a lion rampant, queue fourchy. These arms are, of course, the
well known arms of the baronial Brewes family. As such, it appears
that Margaret was a Brewes as suspected, and doubtless the daughter of
Sir Peter de Brewes.'[41]

she m. 1stly Henry le Teyes, Lord Teyes (ex. 1321) [1],
2ndly Thomas de Monthermer

cf. Richardson pp. 575-6, 814-5[42]


[ to be continued - see Part II ]

WJho...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 21, 2005, 2:12:14 PM12/21/05
to
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:28:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, Therav3 writes:

<snip>


<< 2nd husband of Isabel de Vere, widow of John de Courtenay(d. 3 May 1274);
m. before 24 Jan 1276/77

cf. CP IV:323[9]

<snip>


<<

Sir John de Courtenay = Isabel de Vere = Sir Oliver de Dinham
of Okehampton I d. bef I of Hartland, Devon
d. 3 May 1273 I 7 Jan 1290/91 I d. 26 Feb 1298/99 >>

</snip>

John. When did John de Courtenay die? 1274 ? or 1273?
Thanks
Will Johnson

WJho...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 21, 2005, 2:25:58 PM12/21/05
to
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:28:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, Therav3 writes:

<< Sir Hugh married Eleanor le Despenser.
41 Eleanor le Despenser. died on 30 Sep 1328.[9] >>

in London when returning from Canterbury

WJho...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 21, 2005, 2:45:39 PM12/21/05
to
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:28:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, Therav3 writes:

<< his wardship granted to Sir John de Soules (a Scots knight), 1291[9]

<SNIP>


bef 1307 when Sir Richard was 36, he married Muriel de Soulis.[9] >>

<SNIP>

What is the exact nature of the quotes from this source?
If he was a minor in 1291 and 36 BEFore 1307 then he could *only* have been
born exactly in 1270.
Right? Wrong?

Will Johnson

John P. Ravilious

unread,
Dec 21, 2005, 2:58:53 PM12/21/05
to
Dear Will,

That's a very good question.

I recall some extended conversation on the topic some time ago on
the list. The following is what I have in my notes on the subject:

NOTE: his death is given in CP II:465, note (f) [sub _Courtenay_] and
CP IV:370, note (h) as 3 May 1274. Footnote (h) says,

"Chron. of Ford (Monasticon, vol. v,
p. 379), where, however, the year is erroneously given as 1273. The
writ of
diem cl. ext. was issued 12 May 1274 (Fine Roll, 2 Edw. I, m. 23)."

So either (A) the Ford cartulary is off a year, or (B) it took a
rather long time from date of death (3 May 1273) until the writ was
issued (12 May 1274). I'm of the opinion that (B) is correct, for the
following two reasons:

A. Josce de Dinham (son of Isabel de Vere by her 2nd marriage to
Sir Oliver de Dinham) was - allegedly - born before 26 Feb 1274/5, as
he was stated to be aged 24 and more at his father's IPM in 1298/99.

B. Josce's son Sir John de Dinham (d. 1332) was acknowledged by
Hugh de Courtenay as his kinsman, as discovered by Douglas Richardson
[1]. This makes it rather certain that Josce was a son of Isabel de
Vere (grandmother of Hugh de Courtenay).

So, there was either a somewhat abbreviated pregnancy for Isabel
de Vere when carrying Josce de Dinham (say March 1274 - Feb or March
1274/5), or a slightly wider range for betrothal, marriage,
consummation and Josce's birth (say March - June 1273 to Feb or March
1274/5).

For the time being, I've left it at the 1273 date.

Cheers,

John


NOTES

[1] Douglas Richardson, citation from Lists and Indexes, Supplementary
Series, No. XV) (reprinted 1969), pp. 308, 351.

WJho...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 21, 2005, 3:03:44 PM12/21/05
to
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:29:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, Therav3 writes:

<< 49 Hawise de St. Amand.[9]

1st wife[9]

re: Amauri de Saint Amand,
' In 1270, for his da. Hawise, he bought the marriage of Simon, s. and
h. of William de Montagu;....' [CP Vol. XI -Saint Amand, p. 297n][9] >>

I had the birth of William, 2nd Lord Montagu who married Elizabeth de
Montfort, as abt 1265.
Since his father Simon was a minor still in 1270 and not yet married or just
then married, this cannot be correct
Checking the chronology of William, 2nd Lord, I see no reason not to move his
birth forward, so now I'm setting it as 1270/85.

Comments appreciated.
Will Johnson

John P. Ravilious

unread,
Dec 21, 2005, 3:10:04 PM12/21/05
to
Dear Will,

For better or for worse, my genealogy program (Generations 8.0)
generates certain statements, incl. taking the 'after 21 May 1270'
birth date for Sir Richard Lovel and the 'before 1307' marriage date
and stating plainly (if too succinctly),

' bef 1307 when Sir Richard was 36, he married Muriel de Soulis.'

Sir Richard was known to have been a minor at his father's death
(his lands were taken into the King's hands), 21 May 1291, hence my
statement that he was born after 21 May 1270 [CP VIII:205, sub
_Lovel_]. The same account states he was married before 1307. He may
have been aged 36 when married; for all we know, he may have been 16.
Most likely he was aged somewhere in between ( "say 26" ?).

Cheers,

John

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