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C.P. Addition/Correction: Death dates of Amaury de Montfort, Count of Évreux (died c.1192), and his wife, Mabel of Gloucester (died 1198)
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celticp...@gmail.com
May 21, 2019, 6:02:29 PM5/21/19
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Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 5 (1926): 689, 692–693 (sub Gloucester) includes an account of William, Earl of Gloucester (died 1183), the grandson of King Henry I of England. On his death, Earl William's heirs were three daughters, Mabel, Amice, and Isabel. The youngest daughter Isabel became the first wife of King John of England.
On page 689, we are told that Mabel of Gloucester, the eldest daughter, "married, circa 1170, Aumarie de Montfort, Count of Evreux, who died 1191, leaving a son, Aumarie, then under age, who was created in 1199 Earl of Gloucester." END OF QUOTE.
On page 692, further information regarding Mabel is given in footnote d:
"In 1170 Henry II gave this Mabel in marriage to Aumarie (Dugdale, Mon., vol. ii, p. 61); Chron. Steph. (Rolls Ser.), vol. iv, p. 247, where William is misnamed Robert). Mabel died in 1198 (Annales Mon., vol. i, p. 56).
The last reference states that Countess Mabel died in 1198, and cites as its source Luard, Annales Monastici 1 (Rolls Ser. 36) (1864): 56. This is a reference to Tewkesbury Annals sub 1198, which reads as follows:
“Obiit Mabilia comitissa Ebroici.”
No month or day of Mabel's death is provided by the Tewkesbury Annals.
However, fortunately an obit (anniversary) of the Countess' death has been preserved at Canterbury Cathedral. This record shows that Countess Mabel died 1 November.
Source: Dart, History & Antiquities of the Cathedral Church of Canterbury (1726): xxxix:
“Kal. Mens. Nov. [1 November] — Obiit Mabilia, Comitissa Ebroicensis, soror & benefactrix nostra.”
I note that Complete Peerage states that Mabel's husband, Aumarie/Amaury III de Montfort, died in 1191, but gives no source for this date.
As for French sources, Le Brasseur, Histoire civile et ecclesiastique du Comté d’Evreux (1722): 159–163 includes a biography of Amaury III, Count of Evreux. The author states that Amaury III died in 1191 without issue. He gives no source for this date. The statement that Amaury III died without issue is clearly an error.
Vicomte de Burey, Archives héraldiques d'Évreux (1890): 240–241 also states that Amaury III, Count of Évreux, died in 1191 without issue. He also gives no source for this date. Again, the statement that Amaury III died without issue is an error.
Complete Peerage may have been relying on Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 1 (1840): cxliii–cxlvi; 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv as its source for the death date of Amaury III de Montfort.
In Vol. 1, pg. cxliii-cxliv, Mr. Stapleton states the following:
“Mabilia comtess of Evreux renders accompt of 2000 li. for having the custody of the land of her son .... Her son was likewise named Amaury, and in her right became Earl of Gloucester shortly after the accession of King John, who had previously held that Honour in marriage with her youngest sister, Isabella; but from whom he was then divorced. The father [i.e., Amaury de Montfort the elder] had died during the imprisonment of King Richard I. in Germany, leaving this son a minor, whereupon his comte of Evreux was committed to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe; it was during this interval that the Seneschal of Normandy ordered a municipality (communia) to be constituted at Evreux, of which Adam Anglicus was the first mayor, the better to provide for the defence of the town against the approach of King Philip Augustus, who threatened a siege. In 1200, Amaury, Earl of Gloucester, of his own free will, and by command of King John, quitclaimed to the King of France the city of Evreux and the Evrecin ...” END OF QUOTE
In Vol. 2, pg. cxxxiv, Mr. Stapleton further states that Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel, was “deceased at the commencement of the year 1191, leaving his son of the same name under age, and Mabel his widow abovenamed surviving.”
Alas, Mr. Stapleton does not provide his source for any of this information. As to the captivity of King Richard I, Wikipedia states that the king was held captive from shortly before Christmas 1192 until 4 February 1194. If Amaury de Montfort died during King Richard's captivity as Stapleton claims, then he obviously can not have died in the year 1191 as Complete Peerage claims. Rather he would have to have died sometime between 1192 and 1194.
The death date of Count Amaury would presumably predate the commitment of the comte of Evreux to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe, which grant is mentioned by Stapleton. Reference to the ferm of the comte of Evreux was likely found by Stapleton in the surviving records of the Norman Exchequer.
In more recent time, the historian, Daniel Power, in his book, Norman Frontier in the 12th & Early 13th Centuries (2004): 230 places the death of Count Amaury as sometime between 1187 and 1193. He says the following:
"Count Simon of Evreux, who had been a Franco-Norman magnate with no English possessions, was succeeded in Normandy by his elder son, Count Aumary III of Evreux (1181-1187 x 93), an Anglo Norman magnate with no material interests in Francia ... Amaury's son, Count Aumary IV (1187 x 93-1200, d. c. 1213), married the daughter of Hugh de Gournay, who brought him a dowry at Sotteville in the Pays de Caux and Houghton Regis in England." END OF QUOTE
Daniel Power may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Vlts5rwsNosC&pg=PA230
Likewise I find that the historian, N. Vincent, Norman Charters from English Sources (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 59) (2013): 245 includes a charter of Amaury [III], Count of Evreux, which he similarly dates as being sometime in the period, 1181–1193.
As we can see above, both Power and Vincent appear to suggest the death of Count Amaury took place sometime between 1187 and 1193. However, elsewhere I find that Harper-Bill, Anglo-Norman Studies XVII (1995): 196 specifically dates Amaury III's death as being c.1192. Below are abstracts of two references to Count Amaury in this book:
pg. 196: (“Some of the alms can be matched to particular gifts from two counts of Évreux, Simon (1140–81) and Amaury III (1181–c.1192”).
pg. 197 (author cites “Layettes v, Supp. 92 [judgment in the court of Amaury III, count of Évreux, 1181x89]”).
Harper-Bill may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FaI5tE6z07gC&pg=PA196
Once again, the author does not provide his source for the stated death date for Amaury III, Count of Evreux. My guess, however, is that the estimated death date of c.1192 is derived from a modern study by M.-A. Dor, "Seigneurs en Île-de-France Occidentale et en Haute-Normandie: contribution à l'histoire des seigneurs de Montfort-l'Amaury, des comtes d'Évreux, et leur entourage au XIIe siècle et au début du XIIIe siècle," unpublished thèse de l'École des Chartes, Paris, 1992, nos. 41-3, 45, 64-83.
Whatever the case, Count Amaury was certainly dead before 1195, when his widow, Mabel, occurs in several records without mention of her husband. See, for example, Three Rolls of the King’s Court (Pipe Roll Soc.) (1891): 126, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=1FNbAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA126
And Placitorum in Domo Capitulari Westmonasteriensi Asservatorum Abbrevatio (1811): 81, which may be read at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=epk0AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover
And Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://archive.org/details/MagniRotuliScaccariiNormanniaeSubRegibusAngliae.Volume2.1844/page/n137
For interest's sake, I've copied my current file account below regarding Mabel of Gloucester, Countess of Évreux. Although Mabel of Gloucester has no living descendants, her surviving sister, Amice of Gloucester (died 1225), wife of Sir Richard de Clare, Earl of Hertford, has numerous modern descendants.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
MABEL OF GLOUCESTER, daughter and co-heiress. She married in 1170 AMAURY (or AMAURI) [III] DE MONTFORT, Count of Évreux in Normandy, and, in right of his wife, of Great Marlow, Buckinghamshire, son and heir of Simon [III] de Montfort, Count of Évreux, seigneur of Montfort-l’Amaury, Epernon, and Rochefort, by his wife, Mathilde. They had one son, Amaury [IV] [Count of Évreux, Earl of Gloucester]. Sometime in the period, 1181–93, he granted the monks of Christ Church Canterbury an annual rent of one mark to participate in the benefits of the church payable within the octave of St. Andrew. At an unknown date, he founded two chapels in the church of Notre-Dame of Évreux. Amaury III de Montfort, Count of Évreux, died about 1192, and was buried in the choir of the cathedral church of Évreux. Sometime in the period, 1187–1200, his widow, Countess Mabel, and her son, Amaury, granted an annual rent of one mark from their mill at ‘Goseham’ at Marlow, Buckinghamshire to pay for a light at St. Thomas’ tomb. She is mentioned in connection with Marlow, Buckinghamshire in 1195. In 1195 Mabel rendered accompt of £2000 for having the custody of the land of her son. The same year she rendered account of £380 of the residue of her proffer to have her land in the Bailliwick of Caux in Normandy which the Chancellor had taken from her. Mabel, Countess of Évreux, died 1 November 1198.
References:
Le Brasseur, Histoire civile et ecclesiastique du Comté d’Evreux (1722): 159–163. Dart, Hist. & Antiqs. of the Cathedral Church of Canterbury (1726): xxxix (“Kal. Mens. Nov. [1 November] — Obiit Mabilia, Comitissa Ebroicensis, soror & benefactrix nostra.”). Placitorum in Domo Capitulari Westmonasteriensi Asservatorum Abbrevatio (1811): 81 (“Mabilla comitissa de Everous fil’ com’ Will’i de Gloc’”). L’Hermitte, Précis sur la Ville de Montfort-l’Amaury (1825): 48–51 (author confuses Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel of Gloucester, with their son of the same name, Amaury the younger). Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 1 (1840): cxliii–cxlvi; 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv (author states Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel, was “deceased at the commencement of the year 1191, leaving his son of the same name under age, and Mabel his widow abovenamed surviving.”). Luard, Annales Monastici 1 (Rolls Ser. 36) (1864): 56 (Tewkesbury Annals sub 1198: “Obiit Mabilia comitissa Ebroici.”). Ellis, Antiqs. of Heraldry (1869): 198 (Montfort ped.). Vicomte de Burey, Archives héraldiques d'Évreux (1890): 240–241 (author states that Amaury III, Count of Évreux, died in 1191). Three Rolls of the King’s Court (Pipe Roll Soc.) (1891): 126. VCH Buckingham 3 (1925): 65–77. C.P. 5 (1926): 689, 692–693 (sub Gloucester) (author states Aumarie de Montfort, Count of Évreux, died in 1191, but provides no documentation). Schwennicke, Europäische Stanmtafeln 3(2) (1983): 354. Harper-Bill, Anglo-Norman Studies XVII (1995): 196 (“Some of the alms can be matched to particular gifts from two counts of Évreux, Simon (1140–81) and Amaury III (1181–c.1192”), 197 (author cites “Layettes v, Supp. 92 [judgment in the court of Amaury III, count of Évreux, 1181x89]”). Power, Norman Frontier in the 12th & Early 13th Cents. (2004): 32, 63,64, 212, 230, 235, 294. Vincent, Norman Charters from English Sources (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 59) (2013): 245 (charter of Amaury [III], Count of Évreux dated 1181–93), 245–246 (charter of Mabel, Countess of Évreux, and Amaury her son dated 1187–1200).
Complete Peerage 5 (1926): 689, 692–693 (sub Gloucester) includes an account of William, Earl of Gloucester (died 1183), the grandson of King Henry I of England. On his death, Earl William's heirs were three daughters, Mabel, Amice, and Isabel. The youngest daughter Isabel became the first wife of King John of England.
On page 689, we are told that Mabel of Gloucester, the eldest daughter, "married, circa 1170, Aumarie de Montfort, Count of Evreux, who died 1191, leaving a son, Aumarie, then under age, who was created in 1199 Earl of Gloucester." END OF QUOTE.
On page 692, further information regarding Mabel is given in footnote d:
"In 1170 Henry II gave this Mabel in marriage to Aumarie (Dugdale, Mon., vol. ii, p. 61); Chron. Steph. (Rolls Ser.), vol. iv, p. 247, where William is misnamed Robert). Mabel died in 1198 (Annales Mon., vol. i, p. 56).
The last reference states that Countess Mabel died in 1198, and cites as its source Luard, Annales Monastici 1 (Rolls Ser. 36) (1864): 56. This is a reference to Tewkesbury Annals sub 1198, which reads as follows:
“Obiit Mabilia comitissa Ebroici.”
No month or day of Mabel's death is provided by the Tewkesbury Annals.
However, fortunately an obit (anniversary) of the Countess' death has been preserved at Canterbury Cathedral. This record shows that Countess Mabel died 1 November.
Source: Dart, History & Antiquities of the Cathedral Church of Canterbury (1726): xxxix:
“Kal. Mens. Nov. [1 November] — Obiit Mabilia, Comitissa Ebroicensis, soror & benefactrix nostra.”
I note that Complete Peerage states that Mabel's husband, Aumarie/Amaury III de Montfort, died in 1191, but gives no source for this date.
As for French sources, Le Brasseur, Histoire civile et ecclesiastique du Comté d’Evreux (1722): 159–163 includes a biography of Amaury III, Count of Evreux. The author states that Amaury III died in 1191 without issue. He gives no source for this date. The statement that Amaury III died without issue is clearly an error.
Vicomte de Burey, Archives héraldiques d'Évreux (1890): 240–241 also states that Amaury III, Count of Évreux, died in 1191 without issue. He also gives no source for this date. Again, the statement that Amaury III died without issue is an error.
Complete Peerage may have been relying on Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 1 (1840): cxliii–cxlvi; 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv as its source for the death date of Amaury III de Montfort.
In Vol. 1, pg. cxliii-cxliv, Mr. Stapleton states the following:
“Mabilia comtess of Evreux renders accompt of 2000 li. for having the custody of the land of her son .... Her son was likewise named Amaury, and in her right became Earl of Gloucester shortly after the accession of King John, who had previously held that Honour in marriage with her youngest sister, Isabella; but from whom he was then divorced. The father [i.e., Amaury de Montfort the elder] had died during the imprisonment of King Richard I. in Germany, leaving this son a minor, whereupon his comte of Evreux was committed to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe; it was during this interval that the Seneschal of Normandy ordered a municipality (communia) to be constituted at Evreux, of which Adam Anglicus was the first mayor, the better to provide for the defence of the town against the approach of King Philip Augustus, who threatened a siege. In 1200, Amaury, Earl of Gloucester, of his own free will, and by command of King John, quitclaimed to the King of France the city of Evreux and the Evrecin ...” END OF QUOTE
In Vol. 2, pg. cxxxiv, Mr. Stapleton further states that Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel, was “deceased at the commencement of the year 1191, leaving his son of the same name under age, and Mabel his widow abovenamed surviving.”
Alas, Mr. Stapleton does not provide his source for any of this information. As to the captivity of King Richard I, Wikipedia states that the king was held captive from shortly before Christmas 1192 until 4 February 1194. If Amaury de Montfort died during King Richard's captivity as Stapleton claims, then he obviously can not have died in the year 1191 as Complete Peerage claims. Rather he would have to have died sometime between 1192 and 1194.
The death date of Count Amaury would presumably predate the commitment of the comte of Evreux to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe, which grant is mentioned by Stapleton. Reference to the ferm of the comte of Evreux was likely found by Stapleton in the surviving records of the Norman Exchequer.
In more recent time, the historian, Daniel Power, in his book, Norman Frontier in the 12th & Early 13th Centuries (2004): 230 places the death of Count Amaury as sometime between 1187 and 1193. He says the following:
"Count Simon of Evreux, who had been a Franco-Norman magnate with no English possessions, was succeeded in Normandy by his elder son, Count Aumary III of Evreux (1181-1187 x 93), an Anglo Norman magnate with no material interests in Francia ... Amaury's son, Count Aumary IV (1187 x 93-1200, d. c. 1213), married the daughter of Hugh de Gournay, who brought him a dowry at Sotteville in the Pays de Caux and Houghton Regis in England." END OF QUOTE
Daniel Power may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Vlts5rwsNosC&pg=PA230
Likewise I find that the historian, N. Vincent, Norman Charters from English Sources (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 59) (2013): 245 includes a charter of Amaury [III], Count of Evreux, which he similarly dates as being sometime in the period, 1181–1193.
As we can see above, both Power and Vincent appear to suggest the death of Count Amaury took place sometime between 1187 and 1193. However, elsewhere I find that Harper-Bill, Anglo-Norman Studies XVII (1995): 196 specifically dates Amaury III's death as being c.1192. Below are abstracts of two references to Count Amaury in this book:
pg. 196: (“Some of the alms can be matched to particular gifts from two counts of Évreux, Simon (1140–81) and Amaury III (1181–c.1192”).
pg. 197 (author cites “Layettes v, Supp. 92 [judgment in the court of Amaury III, count of Évreux, 1181x89]”).
Harper-Bill may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FaI5tE6z07gC&pg=PA196
Once again, the author does not provide his source for the stated death date for Amaury III, Count of Evreux. My guess, however, is that the estimated death date of c.1192 is derived from a modern study by M.-A. Dor, "Seigneurs en Île-de-France Occidentale et en Haute-Normandie: contribution à l'histoire des seigneurs de Montfort-l'Amaury, des comtes d'Évreux, et leur entourage au XIIe siècle et au début du XIIIe siècle," unpublished thèse de l'École des Chartes, Paris, 1992, nos. 41-3, 45, 64-83.
Whatever the case, Count Amaury was certainly dead before 1195, when his widow, Mabel, occurs in several records without mention of her husband. See, for example, Three Rolls of the King’s Court (Pipe Roll Soc.) (1891): 126, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=1FNbAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA126
And Placitorum in Domo Capitulari Westmonasteriensi Asservatorum Abbrevatio (1811): 81, which may be read at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=epk0AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover
And Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://archive.org/details/MagniRotuliScaccariiNormanniaeSubRegibusAngliae.Volume2.1844/page/n137
For interest's sake, I've copied my current file account below regarding Mabel of Gloucester, Countess of Évreux. Although Mabel of Gloucester has no living descendants, her surviving sister, Amice of Gloucester (died 1225), wife of Sir Richard de Clare, Earl of Hertford, has numerous modern descendants.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
MABEL OF GLOUCESTER, daughter and co-heiress. She married in 1170 AMAURY (or AMAURI) [III] DE MONTFORT, Count of Évreux in Normandy, and, in right of his wife, of Great Marlow, Buckinghamshire, son and heir of Simon [III] de Montfort, Count of Évreux, seigneur of Montfort-l’Amaury, Epernon, and Rochefort, by his wife, Mathilde. They had one son, Amaury [IV] [Count of Évreux, Earl of Gloucester]. Sometime in the period, 1181–93, he granted the monks of Christ Church Canterbury an annual rent of one mark to participate in the benefits of the church payable within the octave of St. Andrew. At an unknown date, he founded two chapels in the church of Notre-Dame of Évreux. Amaury III de Montfort, Count of Évreux, died about 1192, and was buried in the choir of the cathedral church of Évreux. Sometime in the period, 1187–1200, his widow, Countess Mabel, and her son, Amaury, granted an annual rent of one mark from their mill at ‘Goseham’ at Marlow, Buckinghamshire to pay for a light at St. Thomas’ tomb. She is mentioned in connection with Marlow, Buckinghamshire in 1195. In 1195 Mabel rendered accompt of £2000 for having the custody of the land of her son. The same year she rendered account of £380 of the residue of her proffer to have her land in the Bailliwick of Caux in Normandy which the Chancellor had taken from her. Mabel, Countess of Évreux, died 1 November 1198.
References:
Le Brasseur, Histoire civile et ecclesiastique du Comté d’Evreux (1722): 159–163. Dart, Hist. & Antiqs. of the Cathedral Church of Canterbury (1726): xxxix (“Kal. Mens. Nov. [1 November] — Obiit Mabilia, Comitissa Ebroicensis, soror & benefactrix nostra.”). Placitorum in Domo Capitulari Westmonasteriensi Asservatorum Abbrevatio (1811): 81 (“Mabilla comitissa de Everous fil’ com’ Will’i de Gloc’”). L’Hermitte, Précis sur la Ville de Montfort-l’Amaury (1825): 48–51 (author confuses Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel of Gloucester, with their son of the same name, Amaury the younger). Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 1 (1840): cxliii–cxlvi; 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv (author states Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel, was “deceased at the commencement of the year 1191, leaving his son of the same name under age, and Mabel his widow abovenamed surviving.”). Luard, Annales Monastici 1 (Rolls Ser. 36) (1864): 56 (Tewkesbury Annals sub 1198: “Obiit Mabilia comitissa Ebroici.”). Ellis, Antiqs. of Heraldry (1869): 198 (Montfort ped.). Vicomte de Burey, Archives héraldiques d'Évreux (1890): 240–241 (author states that Amaury III, Count of Évreux, died in 1191). Three Rolls of the King’s Court (Pipe Roll Soc.) (1891): 126. VCH Buckingham 3 (1925): 65–77. C.P. 5 (1926): 689, 692–693 (sub Gloucester) (author states Aumarie de Montfort, Count of Évreux, died in 1191, but provides no documentation). Schwennicke, Europäische Stanmtafeln 3(2) (1983): 354. Harper-Bill, Anglo-Norman Studies XVII (1995): 196 (“Some of the alms can be matched to particular gifts from two counts of Évreux, Simon (1140–81) and Amaury III (1181–c.1192”), 197 (author cites “Layettes v, Supp. 92 [judgment in the court of Amaury III, count of Évreux, 1181x89]”). Power, Norman Frontier in the 12th & Early 13th Cents. (2004): 32, 63,64, 212, 230, 235, 294. Vincent, Norman Charters from English Sources (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 59) (2013): 245 (charter of Amaury [III], Count of Évreux dated 1181–93), 245–246 (charter of Mabel, Countess of Évreux, and Amaury her son dated 1187–1200).
Peter Stewart
May 24, 2019, 12:19:18 AM5/24/19
to
Comments interspersed:
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC+10, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> Complete Peerage 5 (1926): 689, 692–693 (sub Gloucester) includes an account of William, Earl of Gloucester (died 1183), the grandson of King Henry I of England. On his death, Earl William's heirs were three daughters, Mabel, Amice, and Isabel. The youngest daughter Isabel became the first wife of King John of England.
>
> On page 689, we are told that Mabel of Gloucester, the eldest daughter, "married, circa 1170, Aumarie de Montfort, Count of Evreux, who died 1191, leaving a son, Aumarie, then under age, who was created in 1199 Earl of Gloucester." END OF QUOTE.
>
> On page 692, further information regarding Mabel is given in footnote d:
>
> "In 1170 Henry II gave this Mabel in marriage to Aumarie (Dugdale, Mon., vol. ii, p. 61); Chron. Steph. (Rolls Ser.), vol. iv, p. 247, where William is misnamed Robert). Mabel died in 1198 (Annales Mon., vol. i, p. 56).
>
> The last reference states that Countess Mabel died in 1198, and cites as its source Luard, Annales Monastici 1 (Rolls Ser. 36) (1864): 56. This is a reference to Tewkesbury Annals sub 1198, which reads as follows:
>
> “Obiit Mabilia comitissa Ebroici.”
>
> No month or day of Mabel's death is provided by the Tewkesbury Annals.
>
> However, fortunately an obit (anniversary) of the Countess' death has been preserved at Canterbury Cathedral. This record shows that Countess Mabel died 1 November.
>
> Source: Dart, History & Antiquities of the Cathedral Church of Canterbury (1726): xxxix:
>
> “Kal. Mens. Nov. [1 November] — Obiit Mabilia, Comitissa Ebroicensis, soror & benefactrix nostra.”
Well found - it's surprising that there doesn't appear to be a more recent edition of this obituary from Canterbury cathedral.
The record of her death is not the same as an anniversary: many churches kept their necrologies and anniversary calendars separate, with the former including anyone whose death was of sufficient interest to note and the latter those who in life had made (or whose families after their deaths had made) provision for the anniversary to be kept. This formality was most often arranged for the date of death, but not always, and was frequently paid for by an annually recurring gift rather than a one-off donation. We have a charter of her son noting Mabilia's benefaction, along with her husband, for the tomb of St Thomas Becket but no record that her anniversary was established at Christ Church.
> I note that Complete Peerage states that Mabel's husband, Aumarie/Amaury III de Montfort, died in 1191, but gives no source for this date.
>
> As for French sources, Le Brasseur, Histoire civile et ecclesiastique du Comté d’Evreux (1722): 159–163 includes a biography of Amaury III, Count of Evreux. The author states that Amaury III died in 1191 without issue. He gives no source for this date. The statement that Amaury III died without issue is clearly an error.
>
> Vicomte de Burey, Archives héraldiques d'Évreux (1890): 240–241 also states that Amaury III, Count of Évreux, died in 1191 without issue. He also gives no source for this date. Again, the statement that Amaury III died without issue is an error.
>
> Complete Peerage may have been relying on Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 1 (1840): cxliii–cxlvi; 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv as its source for the death date of Amaury III de Montfort.
>
> In Vol. 1, pg. cxliii-cxliv, Mr. Stapleton states the following:
>
> “Mabilia comtess of Evreux renders accompt of 2000 li. for having the custody of the land of her son .... Her son was likewise named Amaury, and in her right became Earl of Gloucester shortly after the accession of King John, who had previously held that Honour in marriage with her youngest sister, Isabella; but from whom he was then divorced. The father [i.e., Amaury de Montfort the elder] had died during the imprisonment of King Richard I. in Germany, leaving this son a minor, whereupon his comte of Evreux was committed to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe; it was during this interval that the Seneschal of Normandy ordered a municipality (communia) to be constituted at Evreux, of which Adam Anglicus was the first mayor, the better to provide for the defence of the town against the approach of King Philip Augustus, who threatened a siege. In 1200, Amaury, Earl of Gloucester, of his own free will, and by command of King John, quitclaimed to the King of France the city of Evreux and the Evrecin ...” END OF QUOTE
>
> In Vol. 2, pg. cxxxiv, Mr. Stapleton further states that Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel, was “deceased at the commencement of the year 1191, leaving his son of the same name under age, and Mabel his widow abovenamed surviving.”
>
> Alas, Mr. Stapleton does not provide his source for any of this information. As to the captivity of King Richard I, Wikipedia states that the king was held captive from shortly before Christmas 1192 until 4 February 1194. If Amaury de Montfort died during King Richard's captivity as Stapleton claims, then he obviously can not have died in the year 1191 as Complete Peerage claims. Rather he would have to have died sometime between 1192 and 1194.
Stapleton had misunderstood the source he was drawing on to place Amaury's death during captivity of Richard I - this was a charter establishing the city of Evreux as a commune, and in it the recent circumstances leading to the seneschal's decision were set out. The factors with the imprisonment of King Richard and subsequently it is mentioned that the count was dead - however, this is stated in the ablative absolute and should not be taken to indicate the order of events. The charter also refers to the siege of Evreux in 1194, but Stapleton mistook this to mean that the burgers were in fear of a looming siege later on when the commune was established.
> The death date of Count Amaury would presumably predate the commitment of the comte of Evreux to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe, which grant is mentioned by Stapleton. Reference to the ferm of the comte of Evreux was likely found by Stapleton in the surviving records of the Norman Exchequer.
The evidence from 1195 is in the edition you quoted from, vol i p 151 ("Nicolas de Londa reddit compotum de vii libras x solidos de remanente firme Comitis Ebroicensis pro Roberto Cauketerre et Willelmo de Bovilla"), also in vol ii p 490 ("Nicholas de Londa reddit compotum pro Roberto Chauketerre et Willelmo de Bouvilla de xl solidos de remanente firme terre Comitis Ebroicensis").
> In more recent time, the historian, Daniel Power, in his book, Norman Frontier in the 12th & Early 13th Centuries (2004): 230 places the death of Count Amaury as sometime between 1187 and 1193. He says the following:
>
> "Count Simon of Evreux, who had been a Franco-Norman magnate with no English possessions, was succeeded in Normandy by his elder son, Count Aumary III of Evreux (1181-1187 x 93), an Anglo Norman magnate with no material interests in Francia ... Amaury's son, Count Aumary IV (1187 x 93-1200, d. c. 1213), married the daughter of Hugh de Gournay, who brought him a dowry at Sotteville in the Pays de Caux and Houghton Regis in England." END OF QUOTE
>
> Daniel Power may be viewed at the following weblink:
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=Vlts5rwsNosC&pg=PA230
>
> Likewise I find that the historian, N. Vincent, Norman Charters from English Sources (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 59) (2013): 245 includes a charter of Amaury [III], Count of Evreux, which he similarly dates as being sometime in the period, 1181–1193.
>
> As we can see above, both Power and Vincent appear to suggest the death of Count Amaury took place sometime between 1187 and 1193. However, elsewhere I find that Harper-Bill, Anglo-Norman Studies XVII (1995): 196 specifically dates Amaury III's death as being c.1192. Below are abstracts of two references to Count Amaury in this book:
Amaury seems to have died after Henry II, since one of his charters refers to the time of Henry fitz Empress as if his reign was in the past.
> pg. 196: (“Some of the alms can be matched to particular gifts from two counts of Évreux, Simon (1140–81) and Amaury III (1181–c.1192”).
>
> pg. 197 (author cites “Layettes v, Supp. 92 [judgment in the court of Amaury III, count of Évreux, 1181x89]”).
This is a typo - the reference should be 82, not 92.
The best estimate we have is that Amaury died ca 1192. He is recorded in the obituary of Evreux cathedral on 13 March ("Obierunt Symon, comes Ebroicensis ... et Amaricus, filius ejusdem comitis"). Simon is recorded elsewhere as dying on 11 or 12 March, and in one obituary on 10 February tough this is probably a copyist's error. It is possible that the two men were lumped together for convenience when separate records were transcribed after the second death, or simply that by co-incidence they happened to die on or about the same date around a decade apart.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC+10, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> Complete Peerage 5 (1926): 689, 692–693 (sub Gloucester) includes an account of William, Earl of Gloucester (died 1183), the grandson of King Henry I of England. On his death, Earl William's heirs were three daughters, Mabel, Amice, and Isabel. The youngest daughter Isabel became the first wife of King John of England.
>
> On page 689, we are told that Mabel of Gloucester, the eldest daughter, "married, circa 1170, Aumarie de Montfort, Count of Evreux, who died 1191, leaving a son, Aumarie, then under age, who was created in 1199 Earl of Gloucester." END OF QUOTE.
>
> On page 692, further information regarding Mabel is given in footnote d:
>
> "In 1170 Henry II gave this Mabel in marriage to Aumarie (Dugdale, Mon., vol. ii, p. 61); Chron. Steph. (Rolls Ser.), vol. iv, p. 247, where William is misnamed Robert). Mabel died in 1198 (Annales Mon., vol. i, p. 56).
>
> The last reference states that Countess Mabel died in 1198, and cites as its source Luard, Annales Monastici 1 (Rolls Ser. 36) (1864): 56. This is a reference to Tewkesbury Annals sub 1198, which reads as follows:
>
> “Obiit Mabilia comitissa Ebroici.”
>
> No month or day of Mabel's death is provided by the Tewkesbury Annals.
>
> However, fortunately an obit (anniversary) of the Countess' death has been preserved at Canterbury Cathedral. This record shows that Countess Mabel died 1 November.
>
> Source: Dart, History & Antiquities of the Cathedral Church of Canterbury (1726): xxxix:
>
> “Kal. Mens. Nov. [1 November] — Obiit Mabilia, Comitissa Ebroicensis, soror & benefactrix nostra.”
The record of her death is not the same as an anniversary: many churches kept their necrologies and anniversary calendars separate, with the former including anyone whose death was of sufficient interest to note and the latter those who in life had made (or whose families after their deaths had made) provision for the anniversary to be kept. This formality was most often arranged for the date of death, but not always, and was frequently paid for by an annually recurring gift rather than a one-off donation. We have a charter of her son noting Mabilia's benefaction, along with her husband, for the tomb of St Thomas Becket but no record that her anniversary was established at Christ Church.
> I note that Complete Peerage states that Mabel's husband, Aumarie/Amaury III de Montfort, died in 1191, but gives no source for this date.
>
> As for French sources, Le Brasseur, Histoire civile et ecclesiastique du Comté d’Evreux (1722): 159–163 includes a biography of Amaury III, Count of Evreux. The author states that Amaury III died in 1191 without issue. He gives no source for this date. The statement that Amaury III died without issue is clearly an error.
>
> Vicomte de Burey, Archives héraldiques d'Évreux (1890): 240–241 also states that Amaury III, Count of Évreux, died in 1191 without issue. He also gives no source for this date. Again, the statement that Amaury III died without issue is an error.
>
> Complete Peerage may have been relying on Stapleton, Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae 1 (1840): cxliii–cxlvi; 2 (1844): cxxxiii–cxxxiv as its source for the death date of Amaury III de Montfort.
>
> In Vol. 1, pg. cxliii-cxliv, Mr. Stapleton states the following:
>
> “Mabilia comtess of Evreux renders accompt of 2000 li. for having the custody of the land of her son .... Her son was likewise named Amaury, and in her right became Earl of Gloucester shortly after the accession of King John, who had previously held that Honour in marriage with her youngest sister, Isabella; but from whom he was then divorced. The father [i.e., Amaury de Montfort the elder] had died during the imprisonment of King Richard I. in Germany, leaving this son a minor, whereupon his comte of Evreux was committed to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe; it was during this interval that the Seneschal of Normandy ordered a municipality (communia) to be constituted at Evreux, of which Adam Anglicus was the first mayor, the better to provide for the defence of the town against the approach of King Philip Augustus, who threatened a siege. In 1200, Amaury, Earl of Gloucester, of his own free will, and by command of King John, quitclaimed to the King of France the city of Evreux and the Evrecin ...” END OF QUOTE
>
> In Vol. 2, pg. cxxxiv, Mr. Stapleton further states that Amaury de Montfort, husband of Mabel, was “deceased at the commencement of the year 1191, leaving his son of the same name under age, and Mabel his widow abovenamed surviving.”
>
> Alas, Mr. Stapleton does not provide his source for any of this information. As to the captivity of King Richard I, Wikipedia states that the king was held captive from shortly before Christmas 1192 until 4 February 1194. If Amaury de Montfort died during King Richard's captivity as Stapleton claims, then he obviously can not have died in the year 1191 as Complete Peerage claims. Rather he would have to have died sometime between 1192 and 1194.
> The death date of Count Amaury would presumably predate the commitment of the comte of Evreux to ferm to Nicholas de La Londe, which grant is mentioned by Stapleton. Reference to the ferm of the comte of Evreux was likely found by Stapleton in the surviving records of the Norman Exchequer.
> In more recent time, the historian, Daniel Power, in his book, Norman Frontier in the 12th & Early 13th Centuries (2004): 230 places the death of Count Amaury as sometime between 1187 and 1193. He says the following:
>
> "Count Simon of Evreux, who had been a Franco-Norman magnate with no English possessions, was succeeded in Normandy by his elder son, Count Aumary III of Evreux (1181-1187 x 93), an Anglo Norman magnate with no material interests in Francia ... Amaury's son, Count Aumary IV (1187 x 93-1200, d. c. 1213), married the daughter of Hugh de Gournay, who brought him a dowry at Sotteville in the Pays de Caux and Houghton Regis in England." END OF QUOTE
>
> Daniel Power may be viewed at the following weblink:
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=Vlts5rwsNosC&pg=PA230
>
> Likewise I find that the historian, N. Vincent, Norman Charters from English Sources (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 59) (2013): 245 includes a charter of Amaury [III], Count of Evreux, which he similarly dates as being sometime in the period, 1181–1193.
>
> As we can see above, both Power and Vincent appear to suggest the death of Count Amaury took place sometime between 1187 and 1193. However, elsewhere I find that Harper-Bill, Anglo-Norman Studies XVII (1995): 196 specifically dates Amaury III's death as being c.1192. Below are abstracts of two references to Count Amaury in this book:
> pg. 196: (“Some of the alms can be matched to particular gifts from two counts of Évreux, Simon (1140–81) and Amaury III (1181–c.1192”).
>
> pg. 197 (author cites “Layettes v, Supp. 92 [judgment in the court of Amaury III, count of Évreux, 1181x89]”).
The best estimate we have is that Amaury died ca 1192. He is recorded in the obituary of Evreux cathedral on 13 March ("Obierunt Symon, comes Ebroicensis ... et Amaricus, filius ejusdem comitis"). Simon is recorded elsewhere as dying on 11 or 12 March, and in one obituary on 10 February tough this is probably a copyist's error. It is possible that the two men were lumped together for convenience when separate records were transcribed after the second death, or simply that by co-incidence they happened to die on or about the same date around a decade apart.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
May 28, 2019, 12:55:18 AM5/28/19
to
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 2:19:18 PM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC+10, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Alas, Mr. Stapleton does not provide his source for any of this information. As to the captivity of King Richard I, Wikipedia states that the king was held captive from shortly before Christmas 1192 until 4 February 1194. If Amaury de Montfort died during King Richard's captivity as Stapleton claims, then he obviously can not have died in the year 1191 as Complete Peerage claims. Rather he would have to have died sometime between 1192 and 1194.
>
> Stapleton had misunderstood the source he was drawing on to place Amaury's death during captivity of Richard I - this was a charter establishing the city of Evreux as a commune, and in it the recent circumstances leading to the seneschal's decision were set out. The factors with the imprisonment of King Richard and subsequently it is mentioned that the count was dead - however, this is stated in the ablative absolute and should not be taken to indicate the order of events. The charter also refers to the siege of Evreux in 1194, but Stapleton mistook this to mean that the burgers were in fear of a looming siege later on when the commune was established.
The last sentence is approximately the opposite of what I should have written - the burgers were in fear of a threatened siege by Philippe II of France at the time their commune was established. Despite their efforts, including fortification works carried out on a Sunday for which they were absolved by the archdeacon, Philippe captured Evreux in February 1194, and Richard I retook it in May of the same year. The commune was evidently established in 1193, after the new bishop elected in that year had gone off to join Richard who was still captive in Germany at that time. On this basis the death of Amaury (on a 13 March if the cathedral obituary is accurate) must have occurred by 1193 at the latest. French historians have tended to stick with 1191 as the year of his death, but ca 1192 seems safest given the absence of any certain indicator.
>
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC+10, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Alas, Mr. Stapleton does not provide his source for any of this information. As to the captivity of King Richard I, Wikipedia states that the king was held captive from shortly before Christmas 1192 until 4 February 1194. If Amaury de Montfort died during King Richard's captivity as Stapleton claims, then he obviously can not have died in the year 1191 as Complete Peerage claims. Rather he would have to have died sometime between 1192 and 1194.
>
> Stapleton had misunderstood the source he was drawing on to place Amaury's death during captivity of Richard I - this was a charter establishing the city of Evreux as a commune, and in it the recent circumstances leading to the seneschal's decision were set out. The factors with the imprisonment of King Richard and subsequently it is mentioned that the count was dead - however, this is stated in the ablative absolute and should not be taken to indicate the order of events. The charter also refers to the siege of Evreux in 1194, but Stapleton mistook this to mean that the burgers were in fear of a looming siege later on when the commune was established.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
May 28, 2019, 7:19:15 PM5/28/19
to
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC+10, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
<snip>
> Once again, the author does not provide his source for the stated death date for Amaury III, Count of Evreux. My guess, however, is that the estimated death date of c.1192 is derived from a modern study by M.-A. Dor, "Seigneurs en Île-de-France Occidentale et en Haute-Normandie: contribution à l'histoire des seigneurs de Montfort-l'Amaury, des comtes d'Évreux, et leur entourage au XIIe siècle et au début du XIIIe siècle," unpublished thèse de l'École des Chartes, Paris, 1992, nos. 41-3, 45, 64-83.
Peter Stewart
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